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By David Futrelle
In 2010, men’s rights lawyer Roy Dean Hollander wrote an inflammatory piece for the men’s rights hate site A Voice for Men declaring that men might be forced to take up arms to defeat what he saw as the tyranny of feminism.
Several weeks ago, Den Hollander took his own advice, gunning down the son and husband of a female judge he had tangled with in the past; the son died of his wounds. Several days earlier he killed rival men’s rights attorney Marc Angelucci.
If you thought Den Hollander’s murders would have occasioned some soul searching on the part of the folks at AVFM, you would be dead wrong. Site foinder Paul Elam and others associated with the site offered no apoligies for publishing Den Hollander’s screed (or for a later post by Elam effusively praising him as a “real man”); instead they insisted to anyone who would listen that Den Hollander wasn’t a real men’s rights activist at all and had nothing to do with them.
On Tuesday, AVFM published a post by Gary Costanza referring to Den Hollander’s murder of Angelucci which somehow managed to avoid mentioning both his name and his previous connection to the site, referring to him only as a “demented person.”
Down the memory hole he goes.
Den Hollander – who killed himself shortly after his assault on the judge’s family – was not the only “demented person” in AVFM’s past.
You may be familiar with the name Chris Cantwell – he’s perhaps better known as “the Crying Nazi,” infamous for a teary video he put out after hearing that there was a warrant out for his arrest for several counts of assault at the notorious Unite the Right rally in 2017. Before going full Nazi, you see, Cantwell wrote a number of pieces for AVFM on such topics as IQ, the evils of gun control, and feminists “who demonize men and white people.” When, at the time he was writing for AVFM, I criticized his online harassment of some of his many enemies, Elam wrote a post defending Cantwell and advising me to kill myself.
Cantwell, not only a political activist but quite the gun enthusiast, has been a busy boy in the last several years; his rap sheet is too long and complicated to easily summarize here, but he’s served time for assault and currently sits in jail awaiting trial on charges of threats and extortion against a fellow neo-Nazi. Given his love of guns and his utter lack of impulse control, I think it’s kind of a miracle he hasn’t shot anyone yet.
Over the years, Elam has befriended and published several other men’s rights activists who frankly seem as unhinged as Den Hollander and Cantwell; thankfully none of them have acted out in the same way.
In Constanza’s post today, he urges fellow MRAs to “redouble our efforts” in the wake of Angelucci’s murder.
I would suggest that fans of the site do some serious self-reflection first. Is there a reason their side – and their site — attracts so many “demented” individuals? Perhaps this is not simply bad luck? Perhaps it’s because, to paraphrase a famous comedy routine by Mitchell and Webb, they are the baddies?
H/T — to Twitter’s @TakedownMRAs, who inspired this post.
– Subconscious brain is also the reason why the terms – ‘Racist, sexist, misogynist and islamophobic’ work so effectively at silencing anyone who dares condemn women, blacks and muslims, for anything. How does it happen?
– When, after seeing opposition to women, blacks and muslims, one individual attacks another individual through the ‘Racist, sexist, misogynist and islamophobic’ cards, and when more and more individuals start doing so, with stigma attached to it – An ‘information cascade’ is created. To the subconscious brain of the receiver of these attacks, the message sent is –
– ‘Racist, sexist, misogynist and islamophobic’ = Bad
– However, his conscious brain might not realize this.
(Continued)
Not actually very effective at silencing anyone. Because “subconscious brain” is not a thing and your entire manifesto here is a bunch of crapola. You’re just pulling all of this out of your ass to justify your own racism.
– Consequently, without this individual realizing it, the next time he tries to condemn women, blacks and muslims for anything – His subconscious brain instructs his conscious brain – ‘No – We have established that, that is bad. So back off mister’
– And the individual backs off. And this is how they win. I will not dwell on this particular issue further, for reasons that are obvious.
okay I am throwing in the towel. The Islamophobia was super obvious before, but this troll is no fun*. I’m going to email David.
*Also so very Islamophobic. And racist. And sexist. *sigh*
Good, because the obvious thing is that you’re so full of shit that you’re vomiting it up. There is no “subconsicous brain” and racists and misogynists are not actually silenced by it BECAUSE THEY SAY SHIT ALL THE TIME AS EVIDENCED AT HAND BY YOU.
Wow there’s a lot here.
@AVN
Winning what?
Have you ever heard of Israel? South Sudan? Spain? Portugal?
[citation needed]
Christians control far more countries. What do you think of that?
I take it you’ve never been to a history class. The Middle East has been majority Muslim for over 1000 years, far longer than the Americas have been Christian.
And now you’re not even trying to pretend not to be a white nationalist. Run along.
You being here is influencing me to write rebuttals to your garbage.
Calling someone racist, sexist, misogynist, and islamophobic silences people? Darn, I wish it worked. We have bigots everywhere who claim they’re being silenced but aren’t and won’t shut up.
Correct. Being racist, sexist, misogynist and islamophobic is bad.
Edit: ninja’ed on some of my points. But the points still stand.
The Muslim people where I live are nice, including to me even though my lifestyle isn’t something they would want to do themselves because of their own beliefs. They act maybe kind of distant and not overly friendly because of their different beliefs which is fine AND they are still very kind and never ever nasty or mean in what they say or do to me! Or others! I know their religion doesn’t agree with my views on sex but yet that doesn’t stop them from being good neighbors and kind to me when I see some out somewhere! I see some because there is Islamic Community Center that is near a shopping center where sometimes I go. It has a food bank for everyone and offered help for people of all religions in the area who lost jobs because of COVID.
So @AVN your anti Muslim bullshit doesn’t impress me.
@Rhuu
Yes his racism and Islamaphobia is over the top and it’s just nonsense garbage.
I would be ok keeping around a little longer just for some well-deserved creep-shaming though. But only that.
Because the level of bullshit is pretty damn high.
@ Naglfar
– For me to be able to make you understand what ‘today’ and ‘yesterday’ signify in the statement below –
– Whereas, not a single non-muslim nation today, was a muslim nation yesterday.
– Would require you to have the mental capacity that is most likely higher than you do now.
– ” Israel? South Sudan? Spain? Portugal” – They were ALL non-muslim nations, from the start – Until muslims took over them
– And then lost them
– If I come to your house tomorrow, kick you out of your house, and start living in it for say, 10 years, and then you return, and take it back – Would that mean that –
– MY house, in which I had been living for the past 10 years, was taken away from me, by you… or
– Your house was taken over by me, which you took back?
– When you are unable to understand what I wrote, you can simply ask the help of an adult, if there is one around you.
– Try reading it again and again, until the bulb finally switches on. All right?
– Now if you’ll excuse me….I have to get back to the series of posts.
“I want to learn about feminism” = “I need to spew out my manifesto before it burns me up inside LISTEN TO ME LISTEN TO ME LEARNING WAS NEVER MY OBJECTIVE”
To Miss Stacey
– You are too sweet. And I can not find it in my heart, to argue with you.
– All I can say to you is this – You are seeing muslims, in your nation, when they do NOT have the upper hand. They understand fully well that they are a tiny minority, in a nation of infidels.
– If a day arrives when they have the upper hand, something tells me, your opinion regarding them might start differing.
– However, I would most certainly like you to give me the opportunity to change your mind. I can assure you, if you read what I post, with an impartial stance, there is a real possibility that your outlook might change, as time goes by. Let us hope for the best.
– And I am sorry, but I have to post, what I have to post 🙁 The need of the hour, requires it.
– Really sorry and I hope you will forgive me. 🙁
@Avn
The Andalusian Caliphate is dead history, get the fuck over it already! You don’t hear me whining incessantly about the land my family lost to France, do you? Do you know why? Because it was a thousand fucking years ago and has zero significance to anyone alive today. Also, you are aware, are you not (of course you aren’t) that Islam, like Christianity, spreads by conversion? Sudan has, over the millennia, been dominated by numerous religious majorities, but the actual people, their language, food, stories, and all the things that make up a culture, have remained as similar as any other nation over such a span of time.
Also, fuck off out of here with your Falangist bullshit.
@Stacey
This is similar to my own experience. I have several close friends who are Muslim and have been invited to their mosque on multiple occasions. All the Muslims I’ve met have treated me well.
All countries were non Muslim at one point. Some still are, others are now Muslim, and some, like Spain, were in the Islamic world for a few years but now are not. You said that:
I showed you examples of countries that were a Muslim nation in the past but aren’t now. That disproves your claim. Did you put your back out moving those goalposts?
I’m assuming this is apologia for the crusades, but your analogy doesn’t apply to this situation. You made a claim. I gave counterexamples. Therefore your claim is false.
If this is confrontation, you’re really bad at it. And this is coming from a woman.
Hey Pavlovs House, you’re a historian, right? If you are reading this, could you explain to Avn the history of the Iberian Peninsula?
You’re really not.
I think we’ve had enough AVN, I’m re-banning him.
(Continued)
– This is why it is absolutely imperative that humans take absolute control of what enters their subconscious brain.
– When the news tells an individual something that he does not agree with – He might simply not pay it too much mind.
– But when ALL news media keeps telling ALL individuals something that they do not agree with, and continue repeating it over and over and over again – A few individuals now start agreeing with it.
– Seeing these few, more folks start agreeing with it, with time. Again, an ‘information cascade’ is created, which self-inflates, and self-reinforces, as more and more individuals now keep agreeing with it, because they see more and more individuals doing so.
– They think subconsciously – ‘Well, everyone seems to be doing it. So it must be right. Might as well, join them’ And seeing them, even more join in.
– The ‘bandwagon effect’ takes place. And what was yesterday not agreeable even for a minority of the population – Will now be agreeable to the majority of the population.
– This is how trump almost lost in 2016. He may probably lose in 2020 in the same way, unless white folks realize that their concept of ‘Free speech’ is in reality being used as a piggyback for conditioning of the society, by the news media, as well as other forms of media, particularly american.
@Avn
I know you’re banned now and can’t respond.
If the individual in question is conservative, they call it “fake news” and run away to Fox.
I am certainly hoping that the worst US president ever loses re-election. He never should have been elected in the first place. Abolish the EC.
I live in a Christian dominated country (US) but in a city with a large Muslim population (Minneapolis) and every time any one has ever tried to proselytize to me, it was a Christian. Except for when I was handed a Scientology pamphlet on the street one time.
I worry a lot about theocracy, but I worry more about the groups that are actually trying to take over the government. Which would be dominianist Christians and to a lesser extent Scientologists.
It really takes a special brand of assholery to complain about Muslims trying to take over in a country where the government is very literally committing genocide against Uyghur Muslims.
No more manifesto spam? Thank you, David.
@AVN
What the hell is wrong with you, you utter goddamn creep. You spouted racist bullshit, Stacey said repeatedly that you are full of bullshit, and now you’re hitting on her and pretending to be her friend? Are you just like this with women? Because if you are that’s fucked up. Your behavior is gross as hell and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Edit: oh N/M that got deleted. Yay. Fuck that dude. Thanks @David.
All nations that are Christian today were non-Christian at some point in the past.
When Christianity started 2000 years ago, it had no country, now around 118 countries in the world have a population of >50% Christians (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_by_country). According to your logic, that means that Christians take over a new country approximately every 17 years, which is almost twice the rate of Muslims.
What makes Islam a huge threat that is somehow “winning”, but makes Christianity just 100% hunky dory?
(It’s because Christians are typically considered to be white, isn’t it?)
Fuck you. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you.
The Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar are facing a fucking genocide right now and fuck you for repeating rhetoric that’s used to justify their slaughter. I hope you get exactly what you put into the world.
EDIT- Oh, he’s banned. Thank you, David. I hope this shitbucket never darkens our door again.
@ dali
They left some blooming nice buildings though.
Sudan has more pyramids than Egypt. That’s not especially pertinent to the discussion but it’s a fact I like quoting.
Good riddance re: AVN. Somehow, when I thought he couldn’t get much worse, he did.
@Cyborgette
Unfortunately, he probably is like this IRL.
I wonder if he pauses every sentence or three when he speaks, to sort of mentally insert that hyphen.
@AVN
I am not “sweet”. I am a living goddess with WRATH for despicable beings like you.
If you tried to approach me in real life you would be banished from my presence.
Your condescending to me is as galling as it is absurd.
You come on here making all kinds of unfounded presumptions about people you don’t know like misgendering people or assuming their gender which is offensive enough.
And now you have the impudence to assume that I am “sweet” and need your “protection”.
Listen gross creep in my real life I interact with people who from a very real neopagan spiritual belief system literally worship me as divine. I won’t pretend to hope someone like you could ever understand how that works and reconciles with our lives in the wider world but it does.
And as you think about your ridiculous offer of protection from supposed threats let’s go back to one of your early posts where you asked me about alpha and beta males. Like anybody around here believes in those bullshit categories but I have a good idea how you think an alpha male is supposed to be physically more or less and in my real life I know several who are not only dear trusted partners in creativity and wonderful loving men but who are as tall, physically strong and handsome as what you creeps imagine is an alpha.
I receive their worship as living goddess and sometimes literally do not even have to walk on my own feet because my status and relationships with them allows me to use their (beautiful gorgeous and amazing) bodies literally for transportation *at my bidding* and with their enthusiastic and dedicated consent.
So, yeah, like I am sweet and need of some supposedly smart (but actually ridiculous) man like you to warn me of dangers.
So unbelievable that this troll was talking about pedestals I know figuratively and now calls me too sweet to argue with but does not realize that in my real life art I am often literally on a physical pedestal where the sound and sight of my very real bullwhip and disdain of the look on my face as I command in wrath.
I see the gross troll is banned now but I hope he sees this and knows by utter contempt for him.
And for the record although I wouldn’t have much reason for it to come up here because it’s mostly relevant to my worshippers in my real life social group and community, among them I’m not Miss Stacey but Mistress Stacey and among them they know that the contempt of Mistress Stacey is a contempt unlike any other.