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A Voice for Men tries to distance itself from Roy Den Hollander’s violence … by citing an article they published by him threatening violence

Paul Elam and Roy Den Hollander: Two-headed monster?

By David Futrelle

A Voice for Men is trying its best to distance itself from Roy Den Hollander, the rabidly antifeminist lawyer thought to have gunned down the son and the husband of a federal judge and who seems to be linked to the murder of a rival Men’s Rights attorney in California.

But they’re going about it in a mighty strange way — by citing the violent portion of an article that Den Hollander published in AVFM in 2010.

In a post on AVFM yesterday, Robert Brockway complained that the media were making too much of that one article — and its literal call to arms.

Den Hollander wrote one article for A Voice for Men (AVfM), which was published on October 24, 2010 – nearly ten years ago. A quote from this one article has been widely circulated in the media as it attempts to link AVfM to violence. The mainstream media focuses on the mention of firearms. 

Boy, it’s puzzling that the media would focus on the mention of firearms in a piece written by someone who gunned down three men, killing two of them.

Here’s the quote in question from Den Hollander:

The future prospect of the Men’s Movement raising enough money to exercise some influence in America is unlikely. But there is one remaining source of power in which men still have a near monopoly—firearms. At some point, the men in this country will take the Declaration of Independence literally.

Brockway continues his attempted whitewashing by pointing out that AVFM head boy Paul Elam later turned down another piece by Hollander allegedly based upon the premise that “the best way to preserve men’s rights is with a gun” — as if Elam’s rejection of this second post somehow erases that fact that they published the first one. (And, though Brockway never mentions it, that Elam also praised Den Hollander effusively in a post from 2011.)

The fact is that Den Hollander wasn’t the only one advocating violence in the pages of A Voice for Men. Indeed, the site once hosted, for several years, a manifesto by Men’s Rights activist Tom Ball, who committed suicide by lighting himself on fire outside a courthouse in hopes that his act would inspire other men to begin firebombing courthouses and police stations in protest of alleged anti-male bias in family courts. He wrote:

So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. …

You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!

There will be some casualties in this war. Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours.

AVFM did remove a small portion of Ball’s manifesto in which he offered specific tips on how to make effective molotov cocktails.

Despite hosting this manifesto in AVFM’s “activism” section Elam insisted that he and his fellow MRAs weren’t actually advocating violence themselves, just “predicting” it. As Elam explained it,

Thomas Ball represents a tragic, dysfunctional reaction to chronic, systemic abuse. There are many possible reactions. Some even worse than his. And while we cannot, must not, condone violence, we had better learn to expect it as long as an ideological war against men is allowed to make a battlefield in our justice system and within the heart of our own families.

AVFM took the manifesto down shortly after the Boston Marathon Bombing in 2013.

For another example of Elam “predicting” violence, see here.

Meanwhile, in addition to “predicting” violence, Elam has won himself something of a reputation for publishing assorted fantasies of violence over the years. Consider the infamous article in which he suggested “satrically” that Domestic Violence Awareness month be replaced with “Bash a Violent Bitch” month, celebrating those men who responded to domestic violence directed at them by female partners by beating the shit out of said partners.

I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

And then make them clean up the mess … .

He cautioned men from taking his advice literally — not because he felt it was wrong to beat the shit out of “violent bitches” but because it

isn’t worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.

For more on this, and on Elam’s violent rhetoric more broadly, see here.

In short, Paul Elam is the world’s least convincing pacifist. He can’t disassociate himself from Den Hollander’s fantasies of violence any more than he can disassociate himself from his own. I can only hope that, unlike Den Hollander, Elam doesn’t attempt to turn his violent fantasies into reality.

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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115 Comments
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Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

I’m sniffing some “no true Scotsman” in M&B’s disingenuity, with the baked-in goalpost-shifting that is intrinsic to that particular fallacy.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

In case anyone hasn’t seen it yet, he’s also taken up residence in the previous thread to defend Trump.

Motte and Bailey
Motte and Bailey
4 years ago

@Lainy:

It’s “staph” infection, short for “staphylococcus.” Profreading is your friend.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Motte and Bailey
Really, you have no better argument than picking on spelling errors?

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

@motte

I’m dyslexic, but thank you. Why aren’t you at work since you made a deal about it? Or are you just bored like me and want to play? do you want to play with me Mottie? because I would like that very much.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

It’s “staph” infection, short for “staphylococcus.” Profreading is your friend.

You surely mean “proOfreading” right?

The general rule is that you want to pick on someone else’s spelling, your own needs to be impeccable.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ POM

The general rule is that you want to pick on someone else’s spelling, your own needs to be impeccable.

I like the meta aspect that you went with impeccable. I have to have several goes at that word before the spell checker even guesses what I’m trying.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@PoM
I didn’t even notice that. That’s great.

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

I don’t mind guys, spelling isn’t strong skill. people have taken that cheap shot at me my entire life. makes it harder when your using a phone too that wants to change everything you write into a different word for some reason.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

@Lainy

I can’t help it – someone wants to be a jerk about your spelling but can’t personally spell a common word? It writes itself.

My usual rule is not to comment on spelling or grammar unless it is literally impossible for me to understand the intent. Staff vs. staph? I understood it, so no need for comment. That is, what I find, how normal people react to spelling mistakes; it is the very insecure and the very pretentious who jump on spelling errors like a dick.

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

@Policy

It is kind of like a sad attempt to dom someone isn’t it lol.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)

@Lainy

Why aren’t you at work since you made a deal about it?

His manager’s probably gone to lunch, so there’s no one to make sure he works. Don’t play with him too vigorously – remember desk jockeys are notoriously fragile.

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

@threp

His manager’s probably gone to lunch, so there’s no one to make sure he works. Don’t play with him too vigorously – remember desk jockeys are notoriously fragile.

I like to break them though, that’s part of the fun.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Threp
Do actuaries have managers?

@Lainy
Maybe this could be your theme when you’re taking them down:

“Yeah, yeah, yeah I’m gonna make you, shake you, take you
I’m gonna be the one who breaks you
Put the screws into ya, yeah, my way
Yeah, come on, come on, come and make my day
Make my day”

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ Lainy

Standardised spelling is a relatively recent thing. We can thank/blame people like Merriam-Webster for that.

The only thing that matters though with writing is that people understand what you mean; and we all did. Must confess I didn’t even notice it wasn’t correct.

Shakespeare didn’t even spell his own name consistently; and people think he’s the dogs bollocks when it comes to writing; so you’re in good company.

https://politicworm.com/oxford-shakespeare/to-be-or-not-to-be-shakespeare/why-not-william/the-authorship-question-2/how-he-spelled-his-name/six-signatures/

Motte and Bailey
Motte and Bailey
4 years ago

Do actuaries have managers?

You guys have no idea what you’re even talking about. “Actuary” isn’t a job title, it’s a profession that can operate in a huge variety of roles. So it would depend on exactly what the actuary does.

The answer is yes, I have a manager. I’m not self-employed. I’m a regulator.

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

@Motte

Do you want to play with me or not? your becoming incredibly boring sugar.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Motte and Bailey

You guys have no idea what you’re even talking about. “Actuary” isn’t a job title, it’s a profession that can operate in a huge variety of roles. So it would depend on exactly what the actuary does.

comment image

The answer is yes, I have a manager. I’m not self-employed. I’m a regulator.

Didn’t you just say you had to go to work? Shouldn’t you be regulating now? Or is arguing with us more important?

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

@Naglfar

I know! dude is about as stiff as a board, and not in the fun way.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

I’m a regulator.

That’s weird. The last so-claimed actuary to pop up here also claimed to be a regulator, just before he was banned for being boring and dull, much like yourself.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Lainy
It seems in general conservatives are not good at humor, hence why they only know one joke or their failure to understand the Colbert Report.

@PoM
By any chance is Motte a Heartiste fan? I wonder…

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

It seems in general conservatives are not good at humor, hence why they only know one joke or their failure to understand the Colbert Report.

There’s a sub on reddit called r/TheRightCantMeme which is just a smorgasbord of unfunny rightwing jokes in meme form. What’s hilarious is how funny they think they are.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@PoM

What’s hilarious is how funny they think they are.

I wonder if in some level they realize they’re not funny, but pretend to find each other funny to express common goals to each other. Like a form of virtue signaling or something.

There also is a subreddit called r/GenderCynical that (among other things) makes fun of transphobes’ attempts to make memes, but they probably have lost a lot of material since their namesake (r/GenderCritical) and it’s sister subreddits like r/ItsAFetish and r/TrollGC (the main meme one) got banned.

Motte and Bailey
Motte and Bailey
4 years ago

Ah, Policy of Madness. Angry, addled, and dimwitted as always, I see.

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

@Motte

Oh now your trying to be fun I see. you are just getting my little wheels turning are you.