By David Futrelle
Yesterday, I shared with you one MGTOW Redditor’s opinion on why the female orgasm is “the most selfish and pointless thing in the world.” Today, I’d like to share the opinions of a number of equally thoughtful MGTOW Redditors on a related topic: “Do women really enjoy sex as much as men?”
Who better to answer this question than a bunch of dudes who hate women and are probably very bad at sex?
Well, anyone, really, but for the purposes of this post we’ll be sticking with the MGTOWs.
The asker of this important question in the MGTOW subreddit, a gentleman known as psychomantis01, answers his own question with a big “no.”
From what I’ve read, many reasons point in the negative direction.
-Many women lose interest in sex over time http://www.livescience.com/6764-orgasm-desire-top-list-women-sex-concerns.html
-Lack of desire is the most common sexual dysfunction problem for women http://www.livescience.com/18233-women-lose-sexual-desire.html
-Approximately 25% of women cannot achieve orgasm through vaginal intercourse (probably because only a tiny part of the vagina is sensitive)
-Testimony accounts from transsexuals:
‘Im ftm and I have to say,when on ‘female’ hormones the orgasms were pathetic to say the least compared to now,but then I thought they were great. It was like waves of a nice feeling,now it’s extreamly wonderous’
‘MTF here. I have to say I actually think a mans is naturally more intense of the two. This is amusing because of what our culture says’ (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/body-sense/201004/male-and-female-orgasm-not-so-different)
And of course, women only have a fraction of the testosterone amount in their blood as we have.
The more I learn about them, the stronger the impression I get that they are only really interested in childbearing, money, and companionship. It seems to me, as somebody here once put it, they are only really in love with the ‘idea of being in love’, and not in love with the actual man himself.
Emphasis mine. It is true that on many occasions when I myself have been having the sex with a woman she will cry out in passion “Money! Money! Companionship ! I’d rather be bearing a child!”
Other MGTOW Redditors have their own theories.
Zombocom1911 answers psychomantis01’s query with an emphatic “no!”
Not even close. Women are always saying they love sex but in my experience they are completely fucking frigid and really low sex drive unless you are already having sex with them. They never, ever really ACTIVELY pursue or initiate sex with a stranger because they really just don’t care about it, unless its to get something out of a man, like love, affection, dinners, cards, romance.
Women will do anything for cards.
They are so completely disinterested in sex and stuck up about it , it makes me fucking sick. This is why they can charge such a heavy price for it, because they really don’t want it and really don’t need it.
A top 5% male like Chad Thundercock may have pussy literally thrown at him though. I am not him, so I wouldn’t know.
Literally thrown at him.
A fellow called Bartand has learned what he knows about sex from a book — and what a book!
The only reason they enjoy sex at the beginning is because it is their only way to be loved since they have nothing else to offer. Then later she start to wonder if you like her for more than sex so she start to cut off sex. *I got this information from the book “Real time relationship” with Stefan Molyneux. The beginning of the book simply blow me away because it is not only truth, it is predictable!
This, by the way, is a recent photo of the author of that book:
Clearly he is someone who understands sex inside and out. Though he doesn’t seem aware that you’re generally supposed to wear shirts underneath your leather jacket.
Raiden627 is apparently worried about getting a bad sex review:
When they don’t have to do any work and you worship them then yeah they’ll probably enjoy it – only if you make them orgasm though. If you don’t, well you’ll never hear from them again and she’ll tell all her friends about how you have a small penis.
Flaye2 suspects a conspiracy:
Women seem to have lower drives and they use that to control men. Wives would cut off the sex but at the same time not allow him to satisfy him urges elsewhere, that is evil.
Feedmecarrots has a two-part answer:
I think that this has to be answered in two parts. With men well above their sexual league, they unreservedly enjoy it. With men in their league, who they are using sex with as a manipulative tool, they can’t enjoy it. It is too much like work. I have heard that foreign women can enjoy sex with their market equals.
Their market equals.
One anonymous commenter has this to add:
they enjoy sex, [inasmuch as] they know the power of it can enslave you for 18 years [in the US] if you fuck up.
Surprisngly, there are a few answers suggesting that women actually do enjoy sex as sex, not just with Chads and not just as a way to get stuff from men. As Antingly, perhaps better connected to reality than some of his peers, notes,
I’m kind of surprised reading the comments. Sure, some girls seem like they don’t enjoy sex that much, but, some girls will black out during an orgasm. I’m sorry, but I have never experienced anything like that – even when it was really good.
Even more unexpectedly, several commenters actually offer some handy sex tips of their own. “If you ever wanted to please a woman sexually,” writes givecake, “it doesn’t hurt to stimulate all 3 areas at the same time.” (Sorry, I’m not sure which three areas he means out of the obviously more than three areas available.)
I fear, however, that Cristoff might be a tad confused in his declaration that “women achieve orgasm similarly to how men do – by stimulating the head of the clitoris,” because I am fairly certain that most cis dudes can’t even find their own clitoris (mostly because they don’t have one).
But perhaps he knows better than me. After all, these guys are the experts on all things sex.
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Hmm, I wonder why the wife/girlfriend of an MGTOW might lack desire…
I wonder why they might not be interested…
Although there certainly are women who pursue casual sex, the reason there aren’t more is probably because the possible rewards vs dangers is stacked against them. Most men looking for casual sex don’t have to worry about being raped, killed, abducted, or getting pregnant.
Am I the only person who read this and pictured someone throwing a cat at a man?
I smell projection.
Well, last time you said the three areas were the left nostril, right knee, and a rest stop in Kentucky, so let’s go with that.
Isn’t a penis analogous to a clitoris? I would think that’s the closest most AMAB people have. And I know at least a few trans* femmes who call their dicks “clits,” so presumably a cis man could call his the same if so inclined.
Sure, I’ve ACTIVELY initiated sex with many a stranger for dinner. But if I don’t get a card afterward — Thanks for the sex! — I cut him off. Love? Affection? Romance? Nah, that’s for losers.
It never ceased to amaze me how men are capable of accept woman as sexual partner but in a way that makes her feel even more worthless than if she had been rejected…
One of the part that annoy me is that they consider that frigidity and asexuality just don’t happen in men. I am not sure how common it is, but it’s super shameful from what I have seen.
There is a level of irony in someone naming himself after a character like Psycho Mantis to complain that someone doesn’t enjoy sex enough (the dude’s a psychic who is completely disgusted with humanity’s desire to procreate upon reading the minds of a lot of people).
Just GTOW already miggy.
The truth, certainly not, but predictable ? Yes, definitively a definition of SM. I mean, you could not use it as a zetetic test for precognition, because almost anyone can predict what SM had written in his book.
Do we need to present him with all the studies that show that happens to men too, especially when the time goes by ?
Wait, is vaginal intercourse the only existing and possible sexual act ? Even if the figure was right, at which point does it answers the original question !?
Primary production, manufacturing and services?
The fact that you saw fit to make a silly remark about Stefan’s apparent lack of a shirt only goes to show that you are uncharitable enough to presuppose that he wouldn’t actually be wearing one under that. Take a closer look, if you will; he actually DOES seem to be wearing a shirt, only, it is a little low-cut. There seems to be what looks like a neckline of a shirt just near where Stefan’s zipper is placed. It is, in all likelihood, a low-cut t-shirt, which would be a very fashionable choice for Stefan to make, as Stefan is not one who is ignorant of things sartorial. I have always found him to be one natty daddy, the kind of sharply-dressed man that women often find themselves drawn to; his rational-minded overabundance of male-brained reason and paternalism, which, in itself, is unattractive to women, is slyly counterbalanced by wise decisions in tailoring, which is oddly indicative of the very self-same reasoning prowess that drives women to despise him, because “omg like fuck u dad, you can’t tell me what to do!!!! im dating roger btw”
I suspect the complaint is that not all women can get off as a side effect of a MGTOW using them as a masturbation device. They expect extra attention and stuff on top of that. Since sex = being used as a masturbation device by your partner, obviously they don’t enjoy sex.
The true unfairness in this man-hating world is that artificial masturbation devices are encouraged for women’s use, but men who use them are shamed for it. Men are forced, forced I tell you, to constantly pester the women around them for sex, which women then maliciously withhold. Oh, how they would love to Go Their Own Way instead.
I am willing to consider the theory that people having sex with women enjoy themself more than people having sex with men.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to gather more data.
@Amtep
Ah, but most porn is designed for a straight male audience, so that must counter balance this supposed effect to some degree.
@C.A. Collins
I can’t find it now, but I do recall seeing a study that women who have sex with other women report much greater satisfaction than those who have sex with men, so it would appear that theory is supported.
O/T: Roosh has now declared that Bratz dolls are a Jewish plot to groom children to be gay and sex workers.
Christ. I’d really like to sit down with some of these lads and just explain it.
Fellas, women DO like sex, your just doing it wrong. Never fear! You happen to have an expert teacher right there in bed with you. Ask her what she likes, then do that shit.
Of course, a lot of these dudes seem hell bent on chasing any potential sex partner away so perhaps , uh, maybe read blogs by sex positive feminist educators or something, theres more than a few who write articles for men explaining it.
Look, I’m a woman who doesn’t ever like or want sex and I can confirm that there are many women out there who do like sex, because, y’know, I’ve actually spoken to other women and listened them.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/422/621/326.gif
Are we talking about Magic: The Gathering? Because some of those cards are super rare. If you’re a guy and have a Black Lotus or Ancestral Recall, you can probably have all the sexings.
@Moggie
That reminds me of a woman who traded sex with a stranger for 5,000 World of Warcraft gold coins. Although it’s not the same as trading cards, I’d imagine many of the same types of people are into trading cards and games like WoW.
This was what I was thinking. Seems like that’s the only way to answer the question properly, and also a very difficult thing for anyone in the manosphere to do.
Regarding the clitoris, like Naglfar said it’s basically the same structure as the penis. I call mine a dick even though the anatomy textbook would call it a clitoris, and I also know transfeminine people who do it the other way round.
Speaking of trans people, I don’t think the trans man saying orgasms were rubbish before he went on hormones proves anything. Every trans person I know, whatever their birth assignment, reports enjoying sex more once they weren’t, you know, dysphoric. Funny how that works.
The MGTOW wrote:
Welcome to free (sexual) market capitalism? The premise (that women are mostly asexual) seems dubious, but granting it, this makes perfect sense. I don’t see how you could blame women for being sexually picky, if they’re inherently less interested in sex than men.
Manospherians often profess to believe this sort of stereotype, yet they also talk like women should be more thankful for having “easy” access to sex, in the sense of just being poked with someone’s penis. It’s like it doesn’t truly register that women want or need something else out of their heterosexual relationships – something that men stereotypically don’t much want or need.
If women are so uninterested in sex that having sex with a them is a scarce opportunity, how’d you satisfy your urges elsewhere?
It’s interesting how MGTOWs and other related manosphereans explain the so-called sexual marketplace in terms of biotroofs and yet simultaneously blame women for their alleged biological limitations. If it were true that women were biologically less interested in sex, and biologically more picky than men, then how does it make sense to blame women for acting accordingly? That’s like blaming my cat for being a murder machine – she was engineered by nature to hunt and kill stuff, and you can’t really hold her responsible for that. If women were naturally all of the things that manosphereans say, then it wouldn’t make sense to hold them responsible for those traits.
They want to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak, by saying AWALT biologically, and yet resenting and hating women for these supposed biological traits.
This. I recall reading Julia Serano’s Whipping Girl where she describes the difference in sensation before and after she transitioned. And comes to an opposite conclusion to the quoted trans men.
Well oral sex performed on women makes you unmasculine, you know. And performing hand stuff means you are not having the stimulation of your penis so clearly cannot be a sex-act. If it doesn’t involve a penis it isn’t sex. This is, incidentally, also why gay men exist and gay women do not./sarcasm
I really want to know what he thinks the three areas are cause like my ears are one of the most sensitive parts of my body. It’s almost like ever person is different and you got to pay attention to your partner instead of treating them like a how to guide for a mass produced product
@Lumipuna
Frankly, if buying some sex toys would keep manospherians away from women, I fully support a crowdfunding campaign to buy each one some toys.
Or they could try having sex with each other. But even other MGTOWs don’t seem to want to spend time with each other.
@Battering Lamb
I also heard some incels claiming that cunnilingus was gay because a woman might have had other penises in her vagina first.
@Lainy
Ah, but for a MGTOW, paying attention to a partner would mean listening to a woman, and they can’t do that.
As for every person being different, one would think they could at least understand this from their own bodies, as presumably they have different areas of sensitivity as well. For me, my inner thighs are hypersensitive sometimes but not other times with no clear reason why. As is a part of my lower abdomen.
… anyone want to tell them about the whole Tiresias thing?
Conversely, we all know that if Raiden627 had sex with a woman and did not have an orgasm, he’d be totally cool with it, would not give his partner a “bad review” and would be delighted to hook up again.
Ironically I got told by a terfy lesbian type that it was disgusting and heterosexual to do oral on a bi woman because she might have had a penis there at some point. Words can not describe how happy I am that I left her dorm and did not have sex with her that night.
“Gentlemen, are people besides us really human? Let’s debate.”
And out of nowhere, a Molyneux stan appears!
@Skimmingway
It’s a joke. You are reading way too far into it. I don’t see a shirt, so it seems fine to make jokes about it.
Fashionable enough to counteract his weird leather jacket and sunglasses aesthetic?
I don’t know what this means and I’m not sure I want to.
I wonder why most of his fans are angry single men, then.
Putting aside the creepiness factor of describing a romantic interest as “paternal,” he doesn’t seem very reasonable. If he was, why would he be so into weird conspiracy theories?
True. I don’t find conspiracy theorists to be attractive.
I don’t think many women call Stefan Molyneux “Dad.”