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A practical plan for a government-provided girlfriend program, according to some dingus

Incels waiting in line for government girlfriends (and free soup)

By David Futrelle

There are a lot of people who try to leave comments here that break most of the rules of the site. Some of the comments are just plain annoying or offensive; others have a certain spark of weirdness to them that inspires me, if not to let them through moderation, then to present them to you all.

Today’s is one of the weirdest I’ve gotten so far, from a fellow who evidently thinks he has figured out a way to make both incels and trans women happy at the same time. How, you wonder, probably imagining the worst. I’m just going to let him try to explain.

Why can’t you just put transwomen or effeminate boys to become women through a state mandated girlfriend or wife program so that lonely men can have somebody and not be by themselves?

You know that no actual women born that way would be involved and you could still do as you want?

Most effeminate boys will not be accepted by any job anyway and are poor as heck. They are better off having their sex changed and assigned to men to balance out the lack of partners or women for men. Especially if you know that ‘transwomen’ could be able to have children of their own soon.

Why not give them a husband who can provide for them as well as give them a place to live?

So, yeah, big “yikes” for this one.

I’m not sure if this guy is trolling or not, but either way this is quite an extraordinary example of whatever the hell it is.

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Polished talker
Polished talker
3 months ago

That took some mental pretzelry.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

I have no desire to fuck incels. I doubt any other trans* woman here does either. And I get the feeling that if this happened, any incel assigned a trans* woman would probably kill her and demand a cis woman because incels don’t see us as women.
This is one creepy chaser.

Why can’t you just put transwomen or effeminate boys to become women through a state mandated girlfriend or wife program so that lonely men can have somebody and not be by themselves?

Because we’re humans, not property? And most effeminate boys do not want to be women, there are gender non conforming cis boys.

You know that no actual women born that way

Nice transphobia. I really hate the phrase “born women” or “born men” because most people are born babies. This isn’t Merlin or Benjamin Button.

Especially if you know that ‘transwomen’ could be able to have children of their own soon.

If uterus transplants for trans* women are ever possible and if I ever get a uterus, I sure as hell will not be letting any incels near it.

Why not give them a husband who can provide for them as well as give them a place to live?

Why not give more money to those in poverty and support LGBT people? A much better idea.

New idea: incels can have sex with other incels. That way nobody else gets dragged into this.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 months ago

This strikes me as a creepy guy trying to nonconsensually drag others into his kink.

Otrame
Otrame
3 months ago

So… nobody told him that some trans people are straight and some are gay and some are bi, et al.?

Seriously, Incels. You want sex? There is a way. It won’t be easy. Not for you. But if you persevere you can do it. What is the trick?

Treat everyone around you decently, as if they were at their base, just like you. You know, human. People are much more likely to fuck you if you treat them nicely, treat them as equally human, equally of value. The hard part is you have to mean it, because, trust me, chico, women can smell a woman hater across a crowded room.

The ugliest man I ever met in real life has been married for more than 20 years to a woman who is spectacularly beautiful. She told once that she first fell for him because he paid no attention to her physical beauty. He just treated her like a person. (Of course it helps that he is a brilliant, funny, gentle guy—why yes, I did have a bit of a crush on him, why do you ask?)

Thus endeth the lesson.

Catalpa
Catalpa
3 months ago

Trans women already deal with enough bullshit as it is. The last thing they need is to have incels feeling entitled to their attention.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Otrame

So… nobody told him that some trans people are straight and some are gay and some are bi, et al.?

I think the implication was that trans* women should just be raped by men whether they are attracted to them or not. The majority of trans* people identify as either gay, bisexual, or pansexual. Less than 20% surveyed said they were solely heterosexual. Nevermind that most trans* women who are attracted to men probably still don’t want to fuck incels, I’m bi and I am repulsed by the thought of being near an incel, nevermind having sex with one.

This also isn’t the first incel to suggest this.

This really isn’t the trans* inclusion I asked for.

banned@4chan.org
banned@4chan.org
3 months ago

My username is proof enough that you have to really work to make Futrelle decide not to let your posts through.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

So… nobody told him that some trans people are straight and some are gay and some are bi, et al.?

Oh, he doesn’t care if his government mandated girlfriend is attracted to him. In his little fantasy, she’s there because she’s been coerced into it out of desperation for transition healthcare. He would probably prefer she’s there nonconsensually.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)

Why can’t you just put transwomen or effeminate boys to become women through a state mandated girlfriend or wife program

I’d assume because “the state” has somewhat less than zero right (or ability) to tell someone who to fuck. That’d apply to both transwomen AND incel.

The guy really doesn’t get the idea of autonomy, does he.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Threp

The guy really doesn’t get the idea of autonomy, does he.

The right wing perspective in general seems to be a little hazy on the idea of autonomy for others; it’s all “rules for thee and not for me” over there. This is how we get “freedom conservatives” who want to ban gay marriage and abortion.

Also just a heads up for the future, it’s generally better to write “trans* women” as 2 words, spelling it as one word has some transphobic connotations. Same goes for “trans* men,” etc.

*The asterisk is optional, I use it but many don’t and it’s not a big deal.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)

Thanks! Was lazy and copied his spelling. Won’t do it again, and I apologise unreservedly for upsetting anyone.

I’ve seen with the asterisk and without. Never sure of which to use.

(Personally when I’m talking, I tend to skip the trans completely – a trans* woman is a woman and a trans* man is a man, far as I’m concerned.)

An Autistic Giraffe
An Autistic Giraffe
3 months ago

Science Theory:

Incels are the explanation for the Fermi Paradox. The Galactic Community found out about our civilization and was about to welcome us, but then while studying our communications they found Incel sites, took one look and NOPED right out of Solar System. This was the right move.

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
3 months ago

What did non-binary women do to deserve such a fate? Good gawd.

Seth S
Seth S
3 months ago

I really don’t think this would go well and is more a testment to this person’s fetishes than reality. A number of surveys have shown an overwhelming majority of cis people just aren’t willing to give us trans folks a chance (only 12% of all cisgender participants of all sexualities in one survey were willing to date a trans person… and hetero cis people almost completely excluded them, as only 1.8% of cis straight women and 3.3% of cis straight men showed any willingness to date a trans person of their preferred binary gender). My own experience bears this out as the vast majority of trans people in my circle are with another trans person (or are with multiple trans people if they’re poly). Assigning a trans woman to an incel is most likely just asking for violence against her.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Threp

Won’t do it again, and I apologise unreservedly for upsetting anyone.

It’s no big deal, thank you for understanding.

I’ve seen with the asterisk and without. Never sure of which to use.

Crip Dyke explains it better than I could in the comments at Pharyngula. I use the asterisk, it used to be more common in the past but some still use it today. It seems to mostly be a matter of personal preference at this point. TL;DR is that it emphasized unity of different kinds of people at a time when there was a lot of community infighting, because the asterisk is a wild card character on many operating systems.

@SethS

only 12% of all cisgender participants of all sexualities in one survey were willing to date a trans person… and hetero cis people almost completely excluded them, as only 1.8% of cis straight women and 3.3% of cis straight men showed any willingness to date a trans person of their preferred binary gender

What I find interesting is that in most surveys, cis lesbians are more likely to be willing to date a trans* person than any cishets or cis gay men, yet TERFs are always screaming about how trans* women somehow are erasing lesbians. Just goes to show how out of touch with reality TERFs are.

Kestrel
Kestrel
3 months ago

@Naglfar – When I clicked on the link I got a page not found message. Could you please repost it? I have always wondered about the *.

You are also completely correct about them being “rules for thee but not for me.” I have recently seen a number of posts from people on social media talking about how being told to wear a mask violates their constitutional rights who are also hardcore “pro-lifers”.🙄

Alexis Filth
3 months ago

1. Big Chaser Energy.

2. Do they think us trans women can’t get dates? I’ve been happily married to my (trans) husband for almost 20 years now.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Kestrel
Sorry about that, does this link work?
In addition to Crip Dyke’s historical explanation, I’ve also heard some other justifications like inclusion of non-binary genders.

Aachen
Aachen
3 months ago

If abrogating human rights via government-sponsored indoctrination programs is the plan …. why add all the extra steps? Obviously, the state could just scrub the ‘cel brains instead.

Lizzie
Lizzie
3 months ago

Whenever I see photos like the one above, of the soup kitchen line – I wonder: Where are the women? Where are the children? Who feeds them? It never looks as if the men are holding bowls or containers to take soup away with them, rather that they are being fed at the kitchen and then they leave.

Talonknife
Talonknife
3 months ago

I’m both personal friends with and follow on Twitter a lot of feminine guys (what can I say, I have a type) and for all the jokes that get made about forcefem, I don’t think any of them would actually want it to happen.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 months ago

Query for all the clever technical and arty minded people here.

Is there a process where you could make a car bumper sticker that had a permanent undercoat and a water soluble topcoat?

I’m thinking of something where the permanent sticker can say something like Black Lives Matters or the Pride flag but initially the top layer has the Confederate flag or Trump 2020; until it rains.

Then people can hand them out at NASCAR events or Trump rallies.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 months ago

Why can’t you just put transwomen or effeminate boys to become women through a state mandated girlfriend or wife program so that lonely men can have somebody and not be by themselves?

What is it with you guys who lack companions and so demand that people be enslaved to fulfill your wishes.

You know that no actual women born that way would be involved and you could still do as you want?

Thanks for bringing to my attention the fact that women assumed to be female at birth will be unaffected by your proposed program.

Most effeminate boys will not be accepted by any job anyway and are poor as heck.

US News and World Report disagrees:

Among same-sex couples with both partners in the labor force, median household income is significantly higher ($94,000) than among heterosexual couples ($86,000).

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/03/01/gay-couples-more-educated-higher-income-than-heterosexual-couples

They are better off having their sex changed and assigned to men to balance out the lack of partners or women for men. Especially if you know that ‘transwomen’ could be able to have children of their own soon.

Sorry, guys who can’t find a companion are going to have to do what everybody else does: attempt to show that they’re worthy of a companion.

Why not give them a husband who can provide for them as well as give them a place to live?

Incels appear to never, ever think anything through. People don’t want to be enslaved.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 months ago

If it work for clownfish, why wouldn’t it work for human ? Don’t answer that question.

(ok, ok, the clownfish model is more that they all start on the male and transition to female once at top of the heap, but there’s the same energy of transition based on status)

North Sea Sparkly Dragon (Formerly Nanny Oggs Busom)
North Sea Sparkly Dragon (Formerly Nanny Oggs Busom)
3 months ago

I give up on humans. I think I’ll be a dragon full time.

Fetch
Fetch
3 months ago

I guess in the incel ideology, being forced to fuck and being forced to not fuck are equivalent. And actual forced medical transition and actually forced sex, with actual force, are equivalent to not picking up a new supermodel every week.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 months ago

That thing about forcing effeminate boys to become trans women. Umm. That’s right out of The Female Man by Joanna Russ. The gonzo MRA society you meet at the end of the book has an enslaved caste of trans women (and just plain abusively feminized men) to sexually entertain the male leadership in lieu of AFAB women, who have all fucked off underground to build their own society.

This incel isn’t even being as original as he thinks. Russ wrote The Female Man 50 years ago.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw
I don’t know if there is a way to make that, but it would be great if there was. The best part is that by the time the sticker rubs off, the people probably wouldn’t remember who gave it to them and wouldn’t be able to take retaliative action.

@Fetch

I guess in the incel ideology, being forced to fuck and being forced to not fuck are equivalent.

I don’t think incels see them as equivalent, seeing as they don’t seem to care about rape victims but think not having sex is worse than death. So, it seems they think being forced to not have sex is far worse than being forced to have sex.

Daughter
Daughter
3 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw

We had something similar here in Germany. Activists handed out free T-shirts at some neo-Nazi rock concert with an aggresive looking band logo. Upon washing, the logo disappeared and the text underneath read “Was dein Hemd kann, kannst du auch” (“what your T-shirt can do, you can, too”) with the contact details for Exit, which helps neo-Nazis leave the scene.

https://www.exit-deutschland.de/projekte/?c=trojaner-t-shirt

(link in German)

So yes, it is possible.

Edit: scroll right to the bottom for a video in English.

Daughter
Daughter
3 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw

I would suggest a light-fast underprinting and a trojan overprint in ink that degrades under UV.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Daughter
The only issue with UV is that it might come off too soon if people are just holding the stickers in sunlight. They need to apply it to their vehicles first because once bumper stickers are on they are generally a huge pain to remove and since people don’t usually check their own stickers once they’re on, it could go undetected for a bit. What about something that dissolves in rain?

Owl617
Owl617
3 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw: I really like this idea and will ask some of my tech-savvy friends.

@Daughter: WOW. How wonderfully creative. I am in awe.

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
3 months ago

You know that no actual women born that way would be involved and you could still do as you want?

I find it telling that he apparently thinks “it wont affect YOU” is a convincing argument. I feel like this is a Voight-Kampff test and he failed.

Daughter
Daughter
3 months ago

There is a whole body of research into making dyes fast-degrading under (environmental) UV, because the purifying of water depends on it. These mostly rely on TiO_2 nanoparticles as a catalyst, e.g.:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0255270104000546

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653505004327

Water-soluble layers could be damaged by sweaty fingers or the condensation that would naturally occur within the packaging if the stickers undergo changes of ambient temperature, as they would if they were stored overnight in a cold warehouse.

Allandrel
Allandrel
3 months ago

@Lukas Xavier

I find it telling that he apparently thinks “it wont affect YOU” is a convincing argument. I feel like this is a Voight-Kampff test and he failed.

The one question conservatives regularly ask me that I don’t know how to answer is “Why do you care about (issue x) when it doesn’t affect you personally?”

I mean, I HAVE an answer: “Because I care about other people.”

But them having asked this question clearly shows that they will not, indeed probably cannot, understand that answer. They do not care about anyone but themselves, and cannot conceive that others are not as terrible as they are.

So I don’t know what to say.

Hambeast
Hambeast
3 months ago

Otrame said

Treat everyone around you decently, as if they were at their base, just like you. You know, human. People are much more likely to fuck you if you treat them nicely, treat them as equally human, equally of value. The hard part is you have to mean it, because, trust me, chico, women can smell a woman hater across a crowded room.

This. A million times over to the millionth power.

@Alan – I kind of love that idea. The drawback being that it possibly amounts to vandalism and the Carrion King’s chief henchman would have the DOJ hard at work investigating every single count.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Daughter

Water-soluble layers could be damaged by sweaty fingers or the condensation that would naturally occur within the packaging if the stickers undergo changes of ambient temperature, as they would if they were stored overnight in a cold warehouse.

That does seem like an issue, I hadn’t thought of that before. It would need to break down slowly under UV though so it doesn’t do so before they put it on their car.

@Allandrel

They do not care about anyone but themselves, and cannot conceive that others are not as terrible as they are.

They also refuse to accept that they are terrible, so they project it onto everyone else as a defense mechanism. This is also why they constantly accuse others of virtue signaling or ulterior motives, because they can’t understand being a good person or treating others well without some sort of sinister reason.

@Hambeast
IMO it’s not vandalism, as the people chose of their own free will to put the stickers on their cars. That being said, I’m not sure if the courts would agree with me so it would be a risk. And I don’t know if there is any US legal precedent for anything similar.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)

@Allandrel

So I don’t know what to say.

I usually say they’re an odd sort of Christian and walk off. If they are Christian, it pisses them off. If they’re not, it really pisses them off.

And I’m good with that.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

Somewhat relevant to the OP:
TERFs are once again getting angry about the possibility of uterus transplants for trans* women in the future. Nevermind that this isn’t happening now and won’t be for at least a few more years, and that it will be limited to very few who can afford the procedure and take the risks associated, nevermind that all uterus transplants performed on cis women have been from living donors (usually older relatives who have given birth before), but apparently TERFs now want to opt out of organ donation altogether to guarantee no trans* woman gets their uterus after death.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
3 months ago

@Naglfar:

Just goes to show how out of touch with reality TERFs are.

Or maybe they think trans women are the Chads of the wlw dating scene and are jealous?

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Moon Custafer

Or maybe they think trans women are the Chads of the wlw dating scene and are jealous?

Well, the idea of “transtrenders” implies that trans* people are cool and trendy, so they might think this.

I do recall one post I saw somewhere (can’t find it now) in which a college student who was a lesbian TERF was upset because she had a crush on another girl in the on campus lesbian group, but that girl refused to date her because she was a TERF and ended up dating a trans* woman in the group instead.

TERFs do seem to have a lot in common with incels, I recall another one having a meltdown about how many non-binary people were attractive to her but wouldn’t date her because she refused to acknowledge their identities and insisted on misgendering them.

Allandrel
Allandrel
3 months ago

@Naglfar

Of course TERFs would opt out of organ donation out of the fear that someday a trans* woman might be helped.

Why would they care how many of the cis woman and girls that they claim to be protecting might suffer and die as a result?

I also wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of TERFs also panic about the idea of receiving transplants or transfusions from the “wrong” people, given their “biology is destiny” fixation.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Allandrel

Why would they care how many of the cis woman and girls that they claim to be protecting might suffer and die as a result?

I assume they’re collateral damage, like the masculine cis women who will get assaulted in bathrooms, or the infertile cis women that TERFs will not acknowledge as women, or the women they sent death and rape threats to for supporting trans* people.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of TERFs also panic about the idea of receiving transplants or transfusions from the “wrong” people, given their “biology is destiny” fixation.

It reminds me a bit of Portlandia Season 5 Episode 3, in which Candace, a parody of a second wave radical feminist, needs a heart transplant but refuses to receive one from a man and throws it away instead. The show had its issues for sure, but that does seem like how a TERF would react.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

OT but very relevant and important to this blog:
Reddit just updated their rules and banned 2000 hateful subreddits, including r/The_Donald, r/ChapoTrapHouse, and r/GenderCritical (and the backup r/Gender_Critical). It’s about time. I’m glad they’ve done this finally, but it’s very frustrating they took so long.

Unfortunately, numerous misogynistic manosphere subreddits are still up, including r/MGTOW, r/TheRedPill, and r/MensRights, so there is still a ways to go. We need to keep the pressure on Reddit to remove these as well, misogyny is a real issue.

There are also other TERF subreddits remaining, such as r/TrollGC (which has gone private, maybe to avoid reporting), r/LGBDropTheT, and r/ItsAFetish. Keep reporting these, they are just as hateful as r/GenderCritical and should be banned as well.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

…and Mumsnet reacts.comment image
Glinner and GenderCritical banned in one week, JK Rowling loses thousands of followers, this is a sad week to be a transphobe. Taste the sweet tears, they taste of schadenfreude.

I especially like where it says that “r/GC was the last female run space where women don’t have to centre penis in every interaction.” Umm, TERFs seem to spend more time thinking about penises than porn producers, urologists, and teenage boys combined. They chose to obsess over it.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 months ago

Interesting. Looks like the pink pill subreddits are gone, too, which is going to make the pinkpillers lose their everloving minds if TRP is still up.

I know that T_D was experiencing some admin-induced mod shakeups recently, showing that reddit was trying desperately to save the sub and not ban it.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@PoM
Pink pill? What’s that? I know about the red, purple, blue, black, grey, and white pills, but I’ve only ever heard pink pill in the context of transitioning (as a nickname for estrogen).

Pie
Pie
3 months ago

@Naglfar

Reddit just updated their rules and banned 2000 hateful subreddits

Its a good start, isn’t it?

Interesting quote from the CEO, too:

I have to admit that I’ve struggled with balancing my values as an American [with] common human decency

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Pie

Its a good start, isn’t it?

Oh, definitely, it’s good, but I mean there is still a ways to go. My fear is that Reddit will look at this and say “we banned these hateful subreddits, now we’re good, nothing left to do” and then it will stagnate progress.

I have to admit that I’ve struggled with balancing my values as an American [with] common human decency

It’s very telling about what values he may hold if his values contradict human decency.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 months ago

@Naglfar

Pink pill? What’s that? I know about the red, purple, blue, black, grey, and white pills, but I’ve only ever heard pink pill in the context of transitioning (as a nickname for estrogen).

The pink pill is like a cross between the red pill and the black pill but for feminists. It reduces male behavior to biology – all men are like that because men are biologically like that. And “like that” means inclined to rape and violence due to too much T. Men have no capacity to empathize the way women do, and no ability to experience emotions other than lust or anger. Pinkpillers believe that masculinity is toxic, not because of socialization, but because of biology. Men were not socialized into this behavior, and cannot be taught or socialized out of it; they are a lost cause, and women are better off becoming political lesbians and Going Their Own Way.

All the pinkpillers of my experience have been trans-exclusionary, and it’s hard to see how they could be otherwise with this kind of evil-is-located-in-the-scrotum ideology. They refer to men as scrotes, and only semi-ironically as moids. Trans women are predatory men, and trans men only want to become men to escape misogyny.