By David Futrelle
Is there any statement made by a heterosexual man that’s sadder than “female orgasm is a myth?” It’s a sentiment I’ve run across a number of times in and around the manosphere, and it’s such a self-own that I cannot help but look upon each new variation of the idea with a sense of wonder.
It suggests not only that the man making the statement has had a nonexistent or simply very bad sex life but also that he is too deliberately obtuse to take the word of the (cis) women of the world on a point rather central to their sexuality.
But men keep saying this, and not only that but they do so with a weird aura of confidence, as if they are daring truth tellers taking on some sort of mass deception.
I found the latest example on the site “GirlsAskGuys” — though this question is clearly being asked (and answered) by a guy.
“Is the Female ‘Orgasm’ just a myth by Hollywood?” he asks
Pointing to the gif below showing a (fake) orgasm from a Hollywood movie, he declares that “[t]his is a Female Orgasm according to Society/Hollywood…”
He dismisses the (fake) orgasm depicted in the gif snidely:
Basically a women opening her mouth.
You are telling me that this is equal to ejaculation? LMFAO!
Let’s not dwell too long on the absurdity of using a faked female orgasm from a movie to dismiss real orgasms as fake.
But even the fake, acted-out orgasm depicts something a good deal more involved than just a woman opening her mouth. Like, for example, her body spasming? I’m beginning to think this guy’s observational abilities are somewhat lacking.
He continues:
Sorry but the female orgasm is a myth… I’m sure women get pleasure but the fact is you don’t have an orgasm, you don’t have a climax at all.
Men on the other hand do have a climax, that’s when they ejaculate… Our orgasms are actually proven science.
It is true that orgasms involving a penis can be a bit easier to detect, because unless the orgasmer is practicing some elaborate tantric techniques these orgasms generally result in a dramatic spurt and a mess to clean up. You don’t need science to observe this, just your own eyes (and at least one hand).
Cis female orgasms are a bit more complicated than that, and can be more easily faked, but that doesn’t mean they’re not real, or that science has somehow failed to prove they exist. They can take many forms, some relatively subtle and others quite dramatic; and they generally do involve some sort of female ejaculate. In any case, Mr. No Female Orgasm, a quick googling of “female orgasm science” will pull up a considerable amount of bedtime reading on the subject.
Or you could, you know, just listen to women talk about the subject and assume they’re telling the truth about their experiences.
But Mr Won’t Listen to Women has more thoughts:
Now I know people are gonna come in here with the squirters… Fact is that is not a fact that’s even an orgasm. Not all women squirt… and so far science can’t say squirting is 100% due to an orgasm.
No, science can pretty much say just that.
Our master debater winds up his screed:
Women obviously have pleasure and I’m sure some days they have more pleasure than others but that is not an orgasm.
So yeah it’s a myth.
Keep repeating this, dude. Repetition won’t make it come true, of course, but at least it will serve as a warning to any women considering having sex with you.
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Why do so many men love telling on themselves? And why is he posting this on a site for women to ask men questions? Is this some sort of exhibitionism?
Uh, I think men sometimes open their mouths when they orgasm. And since that was a headshot, we never saw the woman’s genitals so we couldn’t see any sort of contractions that often accompany orgasm.
Most of what’s down there is analogous regardless of which equipment one has, the main differences are in how the things are sized and located. It wouldn’t make sense if penis-havers could orgasm and vagina-havers couldn’t.
When I read this I pictured the questioner sitting in a room and getting ambushed by water pistols. Not sure if anyone else got that image, but it was weird.
And not all cis men ejaculate. Ejaculation =/= orgasm anyway. It’s possible to have one without the other, and vice versa.
Not with this man, though.
I took a look at the responses. The women of the site seemed pretty unimpressed, understandably.
This all reminds me a bit of the weird TERF hashtag #ejaculators from a few days ago where they tried to claim that women cannot ejaculate and therefore that trans* women aren’t women.
I missed that one. But they’re just proving once again how little they know about biology and anatomy. Skene’s glands exist and some women ejaculate.
Apparently, he thinks male ejaculation is evidence of orgasm, but female “squirting” isn’t, because ????
Um… Male dry orgasms are a thing too so I’m not sure what women not squirting has to deal with it
Just to be clear, I don’t think any kind of ejaculation is evidence for orgasm as a scientific phenomenon, or a necessary indicator of orgasm in women or men. We basically know about orgasm because we commonly experience it and report it to each other. Though it helps that outward signs of orgasm are somewhat recognizable in both men and women.
@kupo
It didn’t last long and by the end it was mostly trans* folk and allies mocking it.
Ha ha wow. I’ve managed to give men 2 or 3 orgasms in a row with zero ejaculations. The way their bodies react is pretty much identical to the same as women’s do. With my current boyfriend we got around to talking about the experience of that, and he said that it’s not that much different, mostly just longer-lasting. If that’s not an “orgasm”, then it’s something at least as good and possibly better.
I occasionally complain that most straight men deny themselves 75% of their potential pleasure and deny their partner 90% of it out of some twisted devotion to heteronormativity, whether they realize it or not. I still don’t think I’m exaggerating. And you just know that anyone who denies the existence of women’s orgasms is going to do it on purpose.
Wut? I mean, even leaving aside the ludicrous specifics of that crap, that seems incredibly tautological.
It’s like saying that women can’t have red hair, therefore redheads aren’t women. Those two sentences do not logically support each other or provide any reason why they would be true, they just say the exact same thing in slightly different words. Saying the same baseless assertion twice doesn’t make it any more true.
That checks out, IMO, given how proudly a lot of these super straight men dismiss cunnilingus as unmasculine and stimulation of their prostate as ‘gay’ to name a few.
I’m pretty sure ‘squirting’ and female ejaculation is not the exact same thing though. I’m pretty sure that what is commonly referred to as squirting involves urine, whereas a female ejaculate does not (not to say they can’t coincide). Please correct me if I’m wrong, I freely admit my experience is limited to one partner and not everyone experiences everything the same way.
My aching crushed – down and bruised hand after complying with a request for fisting might disagree with the disbeliever.
I also know from the inside that (cis) male orgasm without ejaculation is definitely a thing from far longer ago than I’m willing to say. Then I developed to the point where both happened together.
One of them is much less intense these days, and may even be consequent on the brain damage from being a parkie.
There’s another annoying point, tangentially related to orgasm disbelief. I’ve even had a medical professional I respected (but thank Whoever-Oversees -this-Reality not involved in my treatment) dismiss my disability as ‘all in my mind.’
I’m relieved they weren’t involved in anyone’s psychiatric care either, with that attitude, by way of an aside, but let’s go back to my point.
A parkie’s disability is down to brain damage that’s as real as if we’d been shot in the head.
If someone is unwilling to believe objective biological and medical facts, you would be hard put to try driving the point home with a hammer.
I can at least concur with what I take to be broad consensus here and hope any orgasm disbeliever might reach an epiphany through becoming a better person and learning good sexual technique.
I haven’t a clue what to do about medics like that described though, apart from avoid being treated by them.
?
That is just… just… Wow.
@David F.
Stop, you’re killing me. No one is considering having sex with this guy.
They still consider orgasm and ejaculation are the same thing for persons ? Do they never had “nocturnal pollution” or what ? They are two distincts phenomena, and that is why there are medical apparels which can help to provide one or the other (search for a Doctor Stuart Meloy, if i am not wrong).
@Nagflar : I think it could make sense for climax to exist for only one sex ; it’s just that it’s not the case.
Similar to how it could make sense for women to lay eggs. That would avoid a lot of complications due to our baby oversized head, for example. But close examination of the human reproductive cycle show that women, in fact, does not usually lay eggs.
The observations to check are still somewhat more difficult than the one to see if female climax exist.
When people talk about it making sense for the female climax not to exist because it isn’t necessary for procreation, point them to the nauseating, excruciatingly painful reality of female spotted hyena’s giving birth (seriously, poor hyenas) and ask them how much sense that makes.
True, people aren’t hyena’s, but it should clear up that there are a lot of things bodies do that have no benefit to procreation whatsoever.
Law Professor Absolutely Destroys Student Letter Protesting Her Wearing a ‘Black Lives Matter’ T-Shirt
https://www.pajiba.com/miscellaneous/law-professor-absolutely-destroys-student-letter-protesting-her-wearing-a-black-lives-matter-tshirt.php
For the very first time I’ve seen since it became fashionable to use this headline format, “X destroys … ” is completely and utterly accurate.
Thank you for posting that. It were refreshing.
So, David, I’m curious:
Is the manosphere talking about George Floyd and police abolition/ defunding/ reform at all? Racism at all?
I mean, life goes on, and I’m not going to mock this guy any harder for declaring the female orgasm a myth because he happened to do it when most of the world is actually having a conversation about racism for once. But I’m just curious. Even spaces set aside for other conversations (like this one) end up with comments about George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Cornelius Frederick (link for those not yet in the know about that one; it seems to have hit the news only in the last 48 hours), etc. every once in a while.
So I’m just curious how much, if at all, they’re talking about the same conversation that’s permeated so many other spaces.
Here’s one guy who’s pretty impressed with his own biology. Congrats on the ejaculation.
Wasn’t there a pretty widespread idea in medieval/Tudor era thought that women have to orgasm in order to get pregnant? Something about it making the egg pop out if the ovary (probably man doctors thinking “well, this is how it works for us!”). So given that – even then – most people appear to have been certain that the female orgasm exists, this guy has less sexual sophistication than blokes from 1473.
@Snowberry
If you don’t mind sharing, how does one do this? Prostate stimulation?
@Catalpa
The whole thing stems from a misunderstanding of something else. TERFs saw an article referred to “people who menstruate” in order to be inclusive of trans* men and non-binary people who menstruate, and they got very upset about this because they wanted to deny the genders of those people. They then deliberately twisted the idea behind it and made up the fake claim that “TRAs want to call women menstruators” despite the fact that that term was never used and the whole point of “people who menstruate” was to not be exclusively for women. This got to the point of vowing to boycott inclusive menstrual products and creating petitions to nobody in particular trying to end the use of a phrase nobody was using.
And then to mock a phrase that hadn’t been used in the first place, they started this hashtag to refer to men and those they think are men, oblivious to female ejaculate.
It’s a doozy, but that’s what happened. This isn’t the first time TERFs have tried to deny female orgasm, a few years ago Graham Linehan infamously claimed on Twitter that women can’t “nut.” This may be connected to the collapse of his marriage.
@Battering Lamb
IIRC female orgasm does increase odds of reproductive success because it involves contractions that can draw sperm into the uterus, and can help with pair bonding partners.
@Crip Dyke
As far as I’ve heard, most manospherians have either ignored George Floyd or used the protests to construct nonsense hypotheses about women. I could be missing something though.
@ crip dyke
If you see this, just sent you an email about something related that might be of interest to you.
Actually, it might be of general interest, so I’ll stick the relevant link here for people.
https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_F9Yv12FcRvuuYeCJUZoXXQ
@nagfljar : maybe it’s TMI, but it run in my family to have dry orgasms on some foods. Which mostly mean that they don’t eat some specific dishes in public, just in case.
Maybe Snowberry is a particulary exceptional chef ?