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Trump’s big coronavirus giveaway in Tulsa: Open thread

Have some delicious coronavirus!

An open thread to discuss Trump’s big rally/coronavirus giveaway in Tulsa. And whatever else you want to discuss.

No trolls!

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Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Alan Robertshaw
Thank you!

@WWTH
He’ll say what he said about his inauguration: that the photos were edited by the media to show fewer people there.

Interestingly, the sparse number of people at the inauguration means that it probably would have been possible to social distance then, though the idea wouldn’t have crossed anyone’s mind back then.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

It’s not because there were that many, it’s because lots of people who wanted to be there were scared away by mean radical protesters. Or at least so they’re saying. This, of course, allows him to flatter those who are there for having balls.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

@Snowberry:

The Tulsa Rally is going on right now. There’s no official estimate and won’t be until awhile after, but I’ve seen very rough estimates from 40,000 to 80,000. Trump said earlier he expects one million, because of course.

Trump?

comment image

@Moggie:

So this would not be a Lady G situation, but something much worse. And, as dumb as Gaetz is, I don’t think he’s dumb enough to willingly start people digging if that’s the skeleton in his closet. I dunno: the whole thing smells, but I just don’t know what it smells of, unless the answer is just “Florida”.

Well, it is a swamp …

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

From the Guardian’s live blog:

The cameras have shown a wide view of the arena, and there are plenty of empty seats. The president was due on stage by now, and Mike Pence has left the stage so he should be on soon. Fox News says it looks “packed” but it’s … not? Anyway, it’s probably not the most important issue in the country right now.

If this turns out to be the wettest squib of all rallies, I will probably cackle.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Ohlmann
It only makes fascism look good to people who thought that anyway. “In the Grimdark future there is only war. That’s the premise, right there. Freedom and thought are anathema to the setting conceit, because that might lead to peace, and there is only war. Everything about the setting exists to ensure that there is only war, and only looks positive if you consider eternal war to be a positive thing. Which fascists do, but that’s because they’re fascists, not because of 40k. Before 40k, that kind of wargamer had other ways of expressing their fascism than apologia for the Empire of Man, often involving apologia for various Nazi generals and/or Crusades and/or the Reconquista. There’s always been an alarming current of fascism in wargames that’s historically been papered over by the nerd social fallacies, and is now starting to be actively called out.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

Trump just called the coronavirus “Kung Flu.” Wow.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

@Ohlmann,

And warhammer 40k clearly does not sell itself as a dystopia or a particulary bad future.

So the advertisements that say “In the nightmare future of the 41st Millennium there is only war” and the preface-of-every-novel that I quoted earlier that says over and over the the Imperium is “the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable” where “you will find little comfort or hope,” and where official introductions to the Imperium describe it as a “nightmare dystopia” that “is rotting from within” does not sell itself as a bad future?

Look, I get it, 40k’s misaimed fandom of fascism fanboys is awful. I’ve been a fan for 28 years, I’m very familiar with them. But stop claiming that GW presents the Imperium as a Good Thing, because they don’t. It really is quite the opposite.

Heck, one of the major themes of the recent return of Guilliman storyline has been his horror and despair at just how bad the Imperium has gotten during his millennia in stasis, and managing to find the resolve to do what he can.

Yes, the Imperium is presented as incredibly badass. EVERYBODY is presented as being incredibly badass, including daemon-worshipping traitors to humanity, omnicidal robots, and swarms of alien locusts. The Drukhari are presented as incredibly cool and badass, and are unquestionably the most evil group in the setting. There is a difference between “You want to play an army of these guys” and “You want to be like these guys.”

Depicting bad guys as cool does not equal endorsing them. Selling toy soldiers of bad guys does not equal endorsing the bad guys as good. This is like saying of G.I. Joe “sure, they say Cobra is a ruthless terrorist organization, but they have cool vehicles that they sell to kids, so Hasbro is glamorizing terrorism.”

Criticize 40k all you want, but try to be factual with your claims.

Katie
Katie
1 year ago

It’s even worse that he’s going to Arizona on the 23rd.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

Does anyone know if/what Trump is planning for July 4th?

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

Re the Tulsa Trump rally, whoever is running the Lincoln Project Twitter account just called it “The Emptyburg Address.”

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Dalillama, @Allandrel

Let’s stop kidding ourselves, the “badass” framing was always, always part of the problem. We also see that same framing in the way US culture has always dealt with the original Nazis – that they were elite, powerful, literally superhuman ubermenschen, had the best engineers and the best equipment. If we’re going with a video game analogy, US culture sees the US military in WWII as Terrans, the Soviets as the Zerg, and the Nazis as the Protoss. No duh that’s going to appeal to people who already have some dangerous tendencies, and content creators at this point have zero excuse for not knowing, understanding, and fighting that.

“The characters are all supposed to be bad though! There are no good guys!” is basically just a declaration of irony, and we all fucking know where that goes.

And like to be clear I don’t begrudge you your fandoms, I hate 40K myself but gods know I have plenty of problematic faves. But maybe let’s stop acting like the constant framing of fascists as “badass” in entertainment hasn’t been part of the problem.

Edit: in before the edit timeout to also point out that the Terrans/Zerg/Protoss view of military forces in WWII is historically inaccurate as fuck, and people who see the Nazi regime as some kind of gleaming efficient machine of a society should read The Origins of Totalitarianism.

CW: horrifying (and 100% real) imagery

.

.

.

.

.

Fascism IRL isn’t clockwork beehive people; it’s Waffen-SS officers jizzing their pants as they beat prisoners, and everyone in Hitler’s cabinet stabbing everyone else in the back at once. Maybe media depictions of it should show some of that hideously corrupt reality.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Cyborgette

But maybe let’s stop acting like the constant framing of fascists as “badass” in entertainment hasn’t been part of the problem.

This depiction also stops us from recognizing fascism when it occurs IRL. When people don’t see it looking exactly like the movies, they ignore it until it’s too late.

Fascism IRL isn’t clockwork beehive people; it’s Waffen-SS officers jizzing their pants as they beat prisoners, and everyone in Hitler’s cabinet stabbing everyone else in the back at once. Maybe media depictions of it should show some of that hideously corrupt reality.

I agree, there are way too many movies about Nazis that show them as 100% objective. And many an edgelord has harped about how they think “Hitler was a bad person but a good leader.” The idea of Hitler as a quality leader is 100% false from any meaningful perspective on how government and leadership should work. There’s a reason his “thousand year reich” lasted 12 years, and I have sweaters that have lasted longer than that.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
1 year ago

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1274500811486228482

Trump: When you do testing to that extent, you’re going to find more people. You’re going to find more cases. So I said to my people slow the testing down please.

Just outright saying he wants the pandemic to go underreported.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

@Alan

Thanks!

@Lumipuna, Naglfar

RE: stocking of masks and them finding it insulting: The attendees threw them away as soon as they got them. Dreadful waste of supplies that could have gone to hospitals, which, as I know, are still struggling for masks.

Luckily a Chinese friend at a university shipped me some for free for the hospital where my parents work. Not that I’m going to make any comments about Trump giving away all of America’s soft power to China, including with his own country’s residents, but… oh no wait, I already did that multiple times, to anyone who would listen.

@The Warhammer 40k conversation

Having been told, “No, really, read THIS one, it’ll be the one, for sure!” multiple times and knowing all the major races and how, yep, that guy turned out to be a fucker too, surprise, surprise, too many times to count, I can confidently say I fall on the side of “glorifying fascism” here.

That’s ok. I’m not judging you, my favorite animated show as a child, which continues to be my second favorite animated show as an adult, is Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles, and let’s all give Heinlein a couple pats on the head for glorifying fascism. But it’s probably best to recognize the background of it.

I do grant you 40k probably started out a lot more satirical, a la Starship Troopers the movie. It’s just not, now; it’s more aspirational now.

varalys the dark
1 year ago

I was actually playing Warhammer when the first edition of 40K came out and honestly it played second fiddle to the Fantasy Battle series for years and having checked my rule book, there’s barely what you would call lore satirical or otherwise. It basically boils down to, “here are the Fantasy Battle races (Orks and Humans, even the Chaos stuff came later and started in FB first) but they have guns, pewpewpew enjoy”.

I didn’t stick with it past starting university in ’93 so my more recent touchpoints have been via the videogames which all have humans as playable characters and actually are pretty critical of the fashy nature the series seems to have evolved into. The one I am currently playing, “Inquisitor: Martyr” actually allows you to make what you or I would call the correct “moral” choices and labels them “Radical” because you’re going against everything your character has been trained to believe in. Or you can be a “Puritan” and so be a monstrous asshole. Your choice.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

OT: the Allegra I take suddenly and magically became ineffective at about midnight, around four hours ago. Constant sniffling and itchy/tickliness in my nose since then, exactly as if I hadn’t been taking it.

What would have caused this and how do I make it work again? I can’t have it remaining ineffective later, when I try to get some sleep.

varalys the dark
1 year ago

We’re not doctor’s nor are we therapists. Find someone else to bother with your constant mithering Surplus.

IAmMarauder
IAmMarauder
1 year ago

I saw an article on Facebook claiming that the Trump rally got trolled, which is where they got their 1 Million attendees number from. Apparently they actually did have that many people sign up to attend, but most of them were Zoomers taking the piss 😛

Full Metal Ox
1 year ago

@Cyborgette:

Whatever atrocity pictures you attempted to post failed to come through, with only minute purple dots to mark their intended positions; perhaps linking to them—and thank you for the warning—might work?

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

@Allandrel : exactly, the grimdark trappings are only trappings. They do not sell the imperium as needlessly cold and cruel anymore. They sell it as a place where they don’t embarass themselves with kindness and are stronger for it.

I mean, the space marine win, all the time. It’s not pyrrhic victories ; it’s just straight up them going somewhere, succeeding, and saying the civilian deads are perfectly fine. They don’t show the imperium as morally corrupt anymore, and for all his “horror” Guilliman is still basically showing to continue the current ways because it work. If anything, what seem to horrify him is much more that the empire is besieged than the empire is obscurantist.

And the fact the imperium have advanced technologically by leap and bound despite that obscurantism is insidiously another way to depict it as an authoritarian state that win. They still imprison anyone not sanctified that try to be scientifically curious (and/or thoses same get demonically possessed) ; they still brand as heretic anyone that devy from the orthodoxy ; it’s just that the mythified leaders are allowed to do science, while the others are litteraly a detriment if they even try.

In no small part, it’s because the worm is in the apple, and the chaos is quite litteraly something that force people to be either slavish sheep or chaos cultists. But GW really pander to fascists. It’s not that there is a following of fascists, it’s that the editorial direction favor putting fascism in a good light.

It’s not the same as saying that all W40K fan are fascists, but you need blinders to not see W40K selling itself as a fanfiction of Italy in the 40′.

@Varalys : I didn’t play that game, so maybe I should look to it. Historically, radical inquisitors are a mix of litteral traitors, people too stupid to see they use power beyond their controls, and people that try to do the right thing.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Surplus
Did you look up your problem to see if anyone else has had the same problem or if there are solutions online?

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
1 year ago

@Cborgette: Seconding that image did not show up. If you don’t want to repost, could you let us know what it was? Thanks.
(Incidentally, it’s always appreciated if there’s a description; helpful for those whose eyesight isn’t up to interpreting images on the small screen, a category I find myself falling into more as I age, but also helpful if the image disappears. Reading old classic threads is a favorite useless pastime of mine.)

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

If I had a time machine, and tried to explain to 2015 me how K-Pop fans would become an important part of the fight against fascism… well, I don’t think I could do it convincingly. This is the weirdest timeline.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

@Ohlmann,

Ah, so as with the Warcraft debate, you’re going with straight-up lying about the material.

I especially like the “technology is advancing by leaps and bounds” one, since the Imperium’s technological stagnation is a major element of the setting and story, caused by its fascist worship of the past making their “advances” consist entirely of rediscovering lost technology, and the only new technology they do develop is by heretical adepts who develop it in secret and then manage to convince their order “this is old tech that I rediscovered, no really” which can take centuries if not millennia.

Since you have stopped arguing in anything resembling good faith, I’m not going to bother engaging further.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Ledasmom, Full Metal Ox
I think by “imagery” she meant a description, which she gave after the dots and content warning. Anyway, I could be wrong, but that’s how I interpreted it.

@IAmMarauder
I actually know people who did that and registered seats for their cats to overinflate the seating counts. I wonder if leaving so many empty seats slowed the spread of COVID. Probably not, since I bet people spent a lot of time congregating and talking before and after.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

For me the weirdest part of the rally was that Trump spent 2 minutes talking about the pandemic and 15 minutes boasting about how he can drink water and walk down a ramp. When he tossed the glass aside angrily like a toddler in a high chair, I couldn’t help wondering which one of his aides got it in the face, and who had to clean up the broken glass afterwards.

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

@Naglfar, do you think the organisers would say “great, so few people have turned up that we can spread them out”? No, they would ensure that most TV shots would show no empty seats.

I wouldn’t want to be in Brad Parscale’s shoes today. Trump will be raving, particularly at the news of the overflow venue being dismantled because it wasn’t needed.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Buttercup
The water thing was weird. It reminded me of how back before the election various right wingers used to dismiss comparisons of Trump to Hitler by claiming they both drink water and thinking that was a witty remark. To the best of my knowledge Hitler did not boast about his water drinking ability at rallies.

Was Trump close enough to the crowd to get COVID by any chance?

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

Re: 40k
I’m not speaking as a fan, I couldn’t give half a shit for the game itself, or.the various spinoffs. I’m speaking as a grognard who’s been embedded in wargame/ttrpg culture for 30-odd years and followed the meta-discussions of fandoms in that time. The problem is not and never was Warhammer 40k. The problem is that there’s always been a far-right current in gaming, and until recently the custom has been to let their shit slide out of geek solidarity. This is in turn a microcosm of Western (and I use this term advisedly) cultures, especially the Anglosphere, where fascist apologia by people who theoretically know better has been a way of life for generations. The problem isn’t Warhammer, it isn’t Starship Troopers, it’s that we refuse to acknowledge how deep the currents that produce this stuff are. The problem is that Law and Order gets votes from people who swear they aren’t racists. The problem is that nobody admits that there’s a direct line between “Support the Troops” and Imperial Space Marines destroying worlds and writing it off as collateral damage. The problem is that people who call themselves progressives will drop everything to cheer a new massacre of brown people (viz. the levels of support of the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan at the time they were proposed.) It’s nitpicking every effort by oppressed groups to get their voices heard, because if makes people uncomfortable to point out the crimes they’ve been complicit in (and yes, every single person who ever voted for a candidate who campaigned as “tough on crime” or “anti-drug” or any of that bullshit is actively complicit in the crimes of the police). I could go on, but my fundamental point is that we have met the enemy, and he is us. And that until we, meaning white people, especially those of us resident in colonial empires, need to seriously examine our own cultural assumptions, so we can make new ones that aren’t based in white supremacy. Going after the low-hanging fruit will never do that. The problem isn’t Starship Troopers, it’s Black Hawk Down.

Moogue
Moogue
1 year ago

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXz0EOAcfZU&w=640&h=360%5D

I guess if you’re a person that talks constant shit about how old and decrepit Biden is, it’s probably important to make sure that you’re able to lift a glass of water to your lips. I can understand that ramps can be slippery, but the difficulty he has with drinking is something that seems to happen regularly.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

I hope this embed works; but this is a great picture from Trump’s Nurnberg campaign rally.

comment image

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
1 year ago

Alan Robertshaw, I am seeing a blank white square, but that appears to fit your description.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Ok, let’s try this again. C’mon Al; pretend you’re tech savvy.

comment image

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
1 year ago

The face mask thing: maybe if the Trump campaign issued their own version of these, there would have been far less tossing the unused masks on the ground.

https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Washable-Fashion-Balaclava-Breathable/dp/B087Q82G7C

Admittedly there’s a good chance that the rally goers still wouldn’t have worn them because reasons, but I doubt they’d just toss them on the ground out of spite either.

By the way, the family of the late Tom Petty have issued a ‘cease and desist’ order to Trump’s campaign over his use of the song ‘Won’t Back Down’ at that rally.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tompetty

Evidently Petty’s political leanings didn’t go in Trump’s general direction.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
1 year ago

@Buttercup, Naglfar, Moogue:

15 minutes boasting about how he can drink water and walk down a ramp.

I suspect this is because a short while back Stephen Colbert ran clips of Trump stumbling as he walked down a ramp, and also of him holding a glass of water in an awkward way as he drinks from it. Trump must have either watched or heard about it.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

He probably also remembers how well harping on about Hillary apparently stumbling worked for him, so he needs to preempt similar comments.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Redsilkphoenix
I feel like they still wouldn’t wear them, but might carry them around or something like that.

@Moon Custafer
I saw those clips. The whole incident just goes to show how truly fragile he is after any perceived attack on him or his abilities. Makes me wonder if people started saying he isn’t good at flapping his arms like a bird and making bird calls whether he would demonstrate flapping and bird calling at rallies to prove he can.

numerobis
numerobis
1 year ago

Alan: The blank blue square with a little white question mark, and the empty blue seats with a little white attendee, are surprisingly similar.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

Stormy Daniels has tweeted, “Told y’all he exaggerates about the size of things.”

I gotta admit, I’m curious as to what the Lincoln Project folks are going to do next with all this new political ad material Trump gave them this weekend.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

He probably also remembers how well harping on about Hillary apparently stumbling worked for him, so he needs to preempt similar comments.

He also mocked Rubio for his rather awkward way of drinking water during a debate back in the primaries, to some effect.

Though I’ll admit it’s giving him credit for both memory and forethought, armouring up against things he’s used against others in the past is part of his MO.

numerobis
numerobis
1 year ago

Open thread right? Not just politics.

I’ve discovered through empirical proof that love in the age of coronavirus is possible, and is not that different from the norm (aka I’ve fallen head over heels). The main change: instead of evaluating the other’s use of precautions before the first time you have sex, you do it before the first time you kiss.

Yay!

We are going much faster than either of us is used to. And I’m hearing of other new couples doing the same. I’m guessing there might be a bunch of babies and/or divorces in the near future.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Victorious Parasol
Well, they’ve already issued a thank you/recruiting call to the KPop stans and Tik Tok teens who apparently registered en masse for the event to inflate predictions. And added this quip about Trump’s ramp encounter.

@numerobis
Congrats on finding love! And yes, I do expect a bit of a baby boom about 9 months after lockdowns started. Sex toy sales increased 130% in March, so evidently people are getting busy in quarantine (presumably both those in relationships and otherwise).

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Shadowplay:

I grant you the doubts about foresight, but I have no doubt that he remembers every mean thing he’s ever done, with great cackling glee and delight.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ numerobis

The blank blue square with a little white question mark, and the empty blue seats with a little white attendee, are surprisingly similar.

Yeah! I’m going to pretend the initial post was intentional; to make a clever point about failure of expectation or something.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Ledasmom, @Full Metal Ox

Yeah Naglfar got it, the “graphic” was the words; the dots were spacers.

Maybe I’m just weirdly sensitive, IDK, when I read the thing I’m referencing in The Origins of Totalitarianism I had to fight back waves of physical nausea. Fascism turns “ordinary men” into serial killers – like, literally, the kind of sex murderers that white USians only see on TV now.

Reading that book will change you. I rather highly recommend it if you haven’t.

@Dalillama

I mean okay, a grognard I am not. But I’m not saying “40K is the problem”. I’m saying it’s part of the problem. Which you seem to be saying too.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

@Naglfar

The embarrassment re the attendee count may be the least of it. Check out this discussion of how the K-pop stans and TikTok teens have thrown a big ol’ monkey wrench in the GOP’s fundraising expectations.

https://twitter.com/aetherlev/status/1274726592481091587

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

Did you see the video of Trump’s walk of shame from da choppa after Tulsa? He looked so defeated, you’d need a heart of stone not to laugh. At the same time, though, his walk looked more normal than usual, so I wonder whether he wasn’t wearing his lifts.

varalys the dark
1 year ago

I definitely think there will be post-lockdown baby boom. I know when I was reading up on UK political history in the twentieth century I was able to trace my conception to the 1974 “Three day week“. Which was emergency measures put in place to conserve fuel stocks after the miners went on strike and the oil crisis sparked by The Yom Kippur War.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Victorious Parasol
I’m so proud of kids these days 🙂. It makes sense in a lot of ways: trolls played a major role in getting Trump elected, so to bring him down we need to fight in a similar way.

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

Here’s the worrying thing, though: Trump is always dangerous, but a wounded Trump is probably more dangerous than ever. He’s going to want to lash out because of this weekend’s events.