By David Futrelle
What happens when a fixed belief runs headlong into reality? Do you adapt your beliefs to the new reality — or do you adapt reality to fit your beliefs, constructing a fantasy world to live in where you’re never wrong?
If you’re a MGTOW Redditor, well, it’s door number two.
One of the strangest and most persistent delusions shared by manosphere men — and MGTOWs in particular — is that women are only attractive in their teens and early 20s, “hitting the wall” when they reach their 25th birthday or so and becoming hideous old monsters no man could ever desire.
Never mind that this has no relation to reality and that many of the most famous female sex symbols of the moment — from Salma Hayek to Kim Kardashian — are in their thirties and forties and fifties. Never mind that many of the women these guys likely ogle at the supermarket on a daily basis have “hit the wall” and kept right on going.
Their insistence that women are suddenly hideeous old bags after the age of 25 leads them into many strange places.. Consider the dude who posted this query to the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit the other day: “What happens to womens Instagram when they turn 25?”
This strange, sad, delusional man.
Dude, women don’t become invisible when they hit 25. They don’t get themselves to a nunnery. They don’t retreat to a cave in the woods. And they don’t shut down their Instagrams.
Indeed, a teensy tiny bit of internet research on my part reveals that the largest demographic on Instagram — making up 35.2 percent of U.S. Instagram users — is the 25-34 year old group. (18-24 year olds make up only 21.4 percent.) In other words, Mr. MGTOW, most women on Instagram are post-wall and still posting.
Not only that, but if you take a quick look at the most popular women on Instagram you’ll find that they’re almost all above the age of 25. Sure, you’ve got Kylie and Kendal Jenner (22 and 24 years old, respectively). But you’ve also got Khloe and Kim Kardashian, 35 and 39. And when you look beyond this single family, you find many other post-wall women in the top twenty, from Ariana Grande (26) and Miley Cyrus (27) to Katy Perry and Taylor Swift (both 30) to Beyonce (38) and Jennifer Lopez (50). These women all have anywhere from 100 million to 200 million followers each. They are anything but invisible.
“The wall” is not a real thing; it’s something to scare women with. But that would require women to believe in it. As it seems now, the only people who’ve been suckered in by this propaganda are those spreading it in the first place — MGTOWs and Red Pillers and other misogynists. You know your movement is in trouble when the only people believing your bullshit are those in your movement. That’s not how propaganda is supposed to work.
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Uh, I’m a woman and I don’t have an Instagram. Mostly ‘cos I have enough social media stuff already. So am I an atypical woman, or am I excused from having an Instagram because I’m “post-wall”?
Oh, and she may not have millions of followers, but Christine McConnell has an Instagram, and she’s definitely not invisible AND “post-wall”. I’d love to pull off vintage glamor the way she does, but I can’t be arsed. So I just subscribe to her YouTube channel and admire her work.
I don’t have an Instagram account, but from what I’ve seen of the platform, there are plenty of women past 25.
“You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.”
-The Doctor
I would imagine that most people who lose followers and likes go on with their lives and don’t obsess over it. Though I would imagine this is a case of projection.
I’m always torn on whether MGTOW are really so self deluded that they believe no men are ever attracted to women over age 25, or if they just pretend it’s so because they really want to scare young and naive women into settling for them.
@WWTH
I think it’s the second. It’s no secret that many men are attracted to “post-wall” women (the MILF/cougar archetype, for example), so I don’t think they actually believe that no men like older women. It’s probably just another way to hate women and create a no win situation.
Wasn’t there a thread recently where it transpired that there existed a market for the services of at least two 68-year-old(!) female sex workers? Wall, meet wrecking ball.
And don’t look now, but the cops are protesting being held accountable again:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/18/atlanta-rayshard-brooks-walkout/
What happens, though, if the result of this sick-out is that a whole lot more people realize they never needed them?
TIL JLo is 50.
Weren’t the right-wingers melting down about that recently, too? Specifically, JLo doing some kind of sexy (but clothed) stripper-pole dance at some sportsball event or other (wait, why was there a stripper-pole dance at a sportsball event? Have I missed something?) while older-than-30.
I can’t seem to track down the link, for some reason, but I believe it was mentioned here, maybe only in the comments though.
I believe it was Shakira at a recent Super Bowl. Why such a thing happened at such a place is likely because sportsball, especially American football, is full of toxic masculinity. See also cheerleaders.
@Surplus
Yes, the Fokken twins. TBH, there are probably a lot of sex workers over 25 (though probably not as many in their 60s and 70s), seeing how popular the fantasy of the cougar is for many men I would imagine there would be some escorts and porn stars of that age group.
Man, I wish I had gained the ability to become invisible when I turned 25, that would be sweet! Not necessarily my first choice for a superpower, but I’ll take what I can get.
Well, assuming that I’d be able to wear clothes while going invisible, because it’s too damn cold to be running around in the nude, even for invisibility.
Back to trying out exotic forms of radiation, since temporally-triggered superpowers seem increasingly unlikely. Sigh…
@Catalpa
Would people then just see floating clothes? That would still presumably hide your identity, but you might freak a lot of people out.
Have you tried looking for magic swords? Fairies?
Its never not creepy and pedophilic when men declare the age of women as “bad” at the age where our brains are fully formed and developed. Their actions that they want underage girls to manipulate into abusive relationships is so transparent. Certain subs like the_walll have been deleted though. But Mgtow, redpill, pussypassdenined and the rest are long ocerdue to be deleted
I’m guessing these guys are too young to have experienced Tina Turner becoming a solo star at 44 with her album Private Dancer. Or late ’80s Cher. No one figured they’d “hit the wall.”
Okay, guy with not much social life, I’ll help you out with your question. When a woman turns 26 she drops dead. That’s because living in this world without constant male validation is just too hard. And that’s why you don’t see any woman older than 25 anywhere, including Instagram.
I think the mythical “wall” is a clear sign that MGTOW are skewing pretty damn young. As most men age, their taste when it comes to women usually change with it and they gain interest in older women, especially if they got style and style most often requires experience.
This is faintly similar to the Japanese phenomenon of “Christmas Cake”.
It was, until the last decade or two, imperative on the Japanese woman to be married. Married young– and certainly before she turned, say, 25. Coined around the 80’s, the somewhat mocking term for a woman not married by then was “Christmas Cake”– which no-one wants to buy after the 25th, implying that the woman was somehow stale after that.
It’s far less common these days, as unmarried older women– and divorcees– are both more common and more acceptable than they once were, although the social pressure to marry still exists– it’s just more likely to be ignored.
And it certainly never caused mass vanishings of females as Mr. Teddy9999 seems to think. (It did cause considerable anxiety with many girls to find a mate before the dreaded Big 25, pre New Century, though.)
Just a strange cultural parallel that I thought might be of interest…
Not all women use Instagram to post selfies. What about accounts dedicated to, say, pictures of turtles, interesting rock formations, or parodies of famous paintings? Are “post-wall” women allowed to post stuff like that??
Minor nitpick:
“Indeed, a teensy tiny bit of internet research on my part reveals that the largest demographic on Instagram — making up 35.2 percent of U.S. Instagram users — is the 25-34 year old group. (18-24 year olds make up only 21.4 percent.) In other words, Mr. MGTOW, most women on Instagram are post-wall and still posting.”
The first group contains 10 birth-years and the second only 7 so the difference is smaller than it appears. And gender isn´t mentioned. But your general point stands.
Obviously, typing “MILF” in a porn site will return 0 entry.
Anyway, after a woman turns 25, if she is not killed by someone, she then turn 26. Seems that “Walls” are kind of an obsession between your president and you, dear MGTOW.
Mexico will still pay attention to post-wall women’s Instagrams.
They’re misunderstanding their own metaphor. A wall is a barrier that you cannot pass, so there can be no such thing as “post-wall”. When women hit 25, they just stop aging. They stay 25 forever.
Every time I read these posts about women “hitting the wall,” I always think of the beginning of Bowling For Soup’s “1985.”
“Debbie just hit the wall,
She never had it all.”
TBH, I think men generally age worse than women. I’m 21 and already look like I’m in my 40s.
@weirwoodtreehugger
I think it might be a bit of both. Some men find young women particularly attractive, but in case of MGTOWs (haha, that autocorrected to “my toes”) it’s hard to distinguish this from the power play. From what I’ve read, it’s like a comforting fairy story they tell themselves – women may not want to sleep with them now, but they’ll get their comeuppance one day, while the MGTOW will finally be rich and handsome in his middle age and get to pick his 20 year old female prize.
I also think it’s akin to when they forensically pick apart the appearance of famous women – saying they have weird ears or are too skinny or whatever. I find it hard to put into words but it’s like a strange sense of possession over the way women should look, alongside an attempt to pull them down in general. So it doesn’t matter that they get rejected, because they can sit in judgement and be the arbiter of female attractiveness.
I’m going to be turning 22 here in a few months. Side note I am older then my husband by 6 months, and yet people still assume I am 16 all the time. There has never been a time except when attending college classes does anyone assume I am a legal adult. My husband on the other hand, looks much older then 21, in fact there have been people that give him dirty looks when he kisses me in public or things like that. One time an old lady once caught him trying to squeeze my ass while we were walking down a street a night and she went off on him. In his defense neither of us saw her, she was kind of lerking in this like doorway to smoke a cigerate and she thought this was an adult man assualting or grooming a underage girl. We both thought we were alone on this street. Might just be me but I think men tend to start aging faster then women actually.