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Prolific incel commenter has an unexpected moment of clarity: maybe a constant diet of despair is bad for you?

By David Futrelle

Sometimes, even in the deepest recesses of Incels.co, a little light can shine. Today, while making my way through such lovely topics of discussion as “With the way young girls dress, I wonder how many fathers secretly jerk off to their daughter” and “Why do ugly fat white women feel entitled to tyrones?” I ran across a post with the intriguing headline “Anyone else think that this site is a drain upon their mental health.”

Had one of the site’s regular users — a fellow named “goydivision” with nearly 1200 posts to his name — stumbled into what alcoholics call a “moment of clarity?” It seemed so.

In a rambling but sometimes quite pointed post, goydivision challenged some of the site’s “black pill” shibboleths and suggested that its atmosphere of intnse negativity about everything wasn’t necessairly helping anyone.

Like seriously, irl I don’t get mogged too much (truth be told I often mog landwhales both male and female) and I don’t really know any Chads irl. I see them around here and then but I don’t have to deal with them talking about their exploits all the time.

I actually think that the few people who have overwhelming negative experiences here, instead of normally keeping it to themselves, it is amplified multiple times to the other 199 or so people here.

He went further, challenging the regular cries of “it’s over” from his fellow commenters.

While the argument can be made that being ugly and incel or taking the blackpill is the source of this negativity, for the first, I honestly believe that around half (or less than half) of users here are merely misplaced normie mentalcels who honestly could betabuxx if they got off their ass, and a very small percentage being potential slayers who are just too retarded to do anything.

Honestly, I feel like the sheer despair of the blackpill is severely overexaggerated due to the very nature of this forum encouraging the “its over” mindset.

But, alas, goydivision hasn’t yet freed himself of most incel dogma.

The blackpill in itself shouldn’t keep you down because its more of a liberation, and instead of crying over spilt milk, it should rather be turned into growth in a positive way (whatever you want, careermaxxing, schoolmaxxing, etc).

I mean, if anything, we all should be fairly pleased (except for the fakecel high tier normies) that foids don’t want us, because, I mean, think about it logically. They’re all whores with no concept of loyalty and who obsess over Chad, so shouldn’t we instead realize that liberation from the rat race of chasing hypergamous females is a gift instead?

Well, that’s not great, obviously, but it’s a tiny step forward. A very tiny step.

Some of goydivision’s incel colleguages agreed that the site can be a little negative in tone and that, as one of them put it, “too much blackpills is not good for you all st once.” But others pecked at his argument in their normal nihilistic fashion.

“Having sub-par looks is a real drain on my mental health,” one commenter retorted. “I’m a subhuman and I hate my life,” added another.

A commenter called Atavistic Autist offered a bold if somewhat loopy strategy to overcome the despair of the blackpilled life:

I suggest that we get to the point where we can read the most brutal blackpill thread and feel nothing, not because we are dead inside, but because we have ceased to have a moral sense as based in disgust responsivity and considerations of social status at all.

We must become Nietzsche’s Superman, self-centered and yet not egotistical.

Or maybe don’t do that, because that’s one of the dumbest and most pretentious things I’ve ever heard from one of you guys.

Obviously goydivision has not shed himself of all or even most of the most hateful tenets of incel ideology. As his references to “foids” and “landwhales” suggest, he’s still pretty much a hateful asshole; indeed, in the comments he confesses that the main reason he still reads and posts on Incels.co is that it’s “the only forum where I can openly discuss my hatred of females.”

But he’s beginning to challenge some of the incel dogma, and that’s something. Maybe he’ll go further; maybe others will follow in his footsteps. They say that optimism is the triumph of hope over experience, and it probably is, but I’m going to allow myself a little bit of hope here.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

This is the best take I’ve seen on Katie’s ban:
https://twitter.com/joss_prior/status/1274085192165208065

Snowberry
Snowberry
3 months ago

Pretending for a moment that it’s accurate (and I’m betting it’s massaged or cherry-picked somehow, and the sample sizes are probably too small given the degree of fluctuations, but let’s be generous), I notice that the “LGB Alliance” data does not include “in a long-term relationship”. I suspect that this is lumped together with “single”.

I also strongly suspect that nearly all of the “married: opposite-sex” listings are bi people who married before 2014. It’s not like half of them are going to randomly divorce their current partners and quickly remarry with a same-sex one.

In my experience, people don’t generally get married unless they have (or are trying to have) children, or have been together for several years. Since same-sex partners generally (at least in my experience) don’t have children, there’s less a lot pressure to marry ASAP, or at all. Five years of data isn’t enough time to identify a long-term trend, especially since marriage wasn’t an option before that in the UK. I do notice that it seems that existing Civil Partners seem to be trading it for full marriage, which at the very least suggests that those who are in legally-acknowledged relationships would probably not be fine with being forced back into CP if you killed same-sex marriage but not same-sex CP.

There’s no comparison with straight people during the same years; it’s hard to draw meaningful conclusions without that. There’s also nothing on whether most LGB people want same-sex marriage someday or think other LGB people should be able to.

Basically, this is making a very questionable extrapolation of what people believe based on very questionable data about what they do, and asserting that this extrapolated belief should be used as a sort of democratic vote to determine civil rights, which is… fractally wrong on how this sort of thing should work.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Snowberry

There’s also nothing on whether most LGB people want same-sex marriage someday or think other LGB people should be able to.

This was what stuck out the most to me. I would assume that many LGB people who aren’t married and/or don’t plan to be married still want it to be an option for others. I’ve never been married, and may or may not get married one day, but I would definitely like to have the option of marriage and would want others to be able to marry same sex partners if they so desire.

There’s also the fact that even if most LGB people aren’t married to same sex partners, the amount that are are still worth protecting, as that is still many people across Britain.

Catalpa
Catalpa
3 months ago

The figure shows that approximately 10% of the LGBT population married same sex partners in the 5 years since same-sex marriage was legalized.

From the stats I can find on this page, “there were 242,842 marriages in England and Wales in 2017, a decrease of 2.8% from 2016”. And “in 2017, there were 6,932 marriages of same-sex couples.”
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/marriagecohabitationandcivilpartnerships/bulletins/marriagesinenglandandwalesprovisional/2017#:~:text=Main%20points,marriages%20per%201%2C000%20unmarried%20women

Therefore, there were 235,910 opposite-sex marriages in 2017, and (assuming that the proportion of same-sex marriages and opposite-sex marriages remains relatively the same) 242,515 opposite sex marriages in 2016. For ease of calculation, I’ll assume that the 2016 numbers will also apply to 2015, 2014, 2018, and 2019. That makes for 1,212,902 marriages, or 2,425,804 people who got married to an opposite-gendered partner.

The population of England and Wales (in 2011) was 58.3 million, 23.9% of whom are under 20. 93.2% of people in the UK identify as straight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=The%20population%20of%20the%20UK,Northern%20Ireland%20as%201.8%20million.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2017#:~:text=In%202017%2C%20an%20estimated%2093.2,gay%20or%20bisexual%20(LGB).

That makes for a population of ~42.4 million heterosexual people of marriageable age.

I’ll very generously assume that ALL of the 2,425,804 people who married an opposite gender partner over 5 years were straight, and none of them were bi.

That means that over 5 years, ~6% of the heterosexual population got married to an opposite gendered partner, and ~10% of the LGBT population got married to an same gendered partner.

Therefore, the numbers definitively prove that gay people like marriage nearly twice as much as straight people, and if we’re discussing removing rights from people on the basis of what percentage of the population likes it, then straight people are far more deserving of losing it.

Prith kDar
Prith kDar
3 months ago

The “poll” seems to assume that all the “single” people have intimate partners they just don’t want to marry. There seems to be no acknowledgement of people who want to marry (someday) but have no candidates right now, i.e. they’re actually single rather than co-habitating while choosing to remain unmarried. Why, some might even be incels and migtows!

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Prith kDar

Why, some might even be incels and migtows!

I somewhat doubt that many are, as I have yet to encounter any gay or bisexual incels, and although we’ve had one troll (Link tw sexual harassment) who claimed to be a bisexual MGTOW, I imagine this is also rare. The vast majority of incels or MGTOW appear to be cishet.

Moogue
Moogue
3 months ago

The only sense that I can make out of TERFs thinking that gay marriage will devalue the status of women, is maybe a view that marriage in general is a patriarchal institution that devalues women, and maybe “gay” marriages will still have to have a “male” and “female” acting partner, which will then cause chaos?

I don’t know, my head already hurts from the gymnastics it just did. Time to lay down now.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Moogue
I would guess it’s simpler than that, it’s probably just that pretty much every transphobe is also a homophobe who finds it more acceptable to be open about their transphobia than their homophobia (but doesn’t hide it too well). Scratch a bigot, find more bigotries deeper within.

Moogue
Moogue
3 months ago

@Naglfar

I do remember that a lot of rad fems do seem to have a distrust in marriage in general, but you are correct that this particular group (LBG Alliance) is just plain a homophobic cishet group concern-trolling gay rights. A little weird for an organization that would seemingly want there to be a safe space for LBG teens in schools to worry about “gay predatory teachers”.