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Is heterosexuality gay? A confused Roosh V ponders the question

Yes, his beard is slowly eating his head

By David Futrelle

The newly-minted Christian moralist Roosh V spent many years of his life immersed in a lifestyle that one can only call depraved — using a crude and predatory version of “pickup artistry” that at times seems to have been indistinguishable from rape to “score” with women; he wrote a series of books teaching other men how to do the same.

Now he’s turned his back on his old ways. Not, it seems, because he recognizes the real harm he did to his victims, but because he’s now convinced that “heterosexual fornication,” as he puts it, is too gay.

No, really. In a post on his blog last week, Roosh spelled out his, er, logic.

At a time in my life when I was attacking homosexuals for their degenerate fornication lifestyle, I was participating in a degenerate fornication lifestyle. Outside of the difference that they had sex with men and I had sex with women, our lifestyles, moral outlook, and approach to intimacy were almost identical. I may not have been a homosexual by definition, but I was a homosexual in spirit.

Roosh, in true clickbait style, then lays out 15 reasons that fornicators of the heterosexual variety are acting the same as fornicators of the homosexual variety. And it doesn’t take long to see that the actual behavior of gay men doesn’t really have anything to do with any of this: he’s simply taken his own bad behavior as a pickup artist and projected it onto gays and their, ahem, “doo-doo lifestyle.”

He declares that male “fornicators” use “drugs or alcohol” to “seal the deal” with their would-be conquests.

All potential sexual prospects for the night are plied with drink or pills to get them in a heightened state of lust, and then at the peak moment of attraction, an attempt is made to move to a private bedroom (or bathroom) to complete a sex act. If you’re an active fornicator, I can just about guarantee that you have never slept with a woman for the first time without the aid of a psychoactive substance.

Speak for yourself, you date-rapey creep.

Actually, he has already spoken for himself — specifically, in his book Bang Iceland, where he confessed to having sex with a woman so inebriated that “[i]n America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she couldn’t legally give her consent.”

(Guess what, dude; they have those same laws in Iceland, too. You. Raped. Her.) 

The rest of the post is made up with similar half-confessions, alongside brief rants on things Roosh finds distasteful (anal sex, abortion, personal grooming). Apparently the only form of acceptable sex to Roosh these days is the old-fashioned penis-in-vagina variety. “A human mouth is not a place to put a penis,” he explains at one point.

An anus is not a place to put a penis. Your mouth is not intended to slurp up a vagina or anus. … When you’re addicted to gaining physical pleasure, you have to get creative in vile and disease-causing ways just for a little extra shot of pleasure.

He excoriates both straight and gay men who have sex without condoms, assuming that this is pretty much universal behavior.

The ones who say they “always use condoms” are not being honest, because once you hear details of their sexual encounters, you’ll see that they use condoms only when a woman forces them to, or when one puts out severe warning signs like having a facial tattoo, but even then, many men hope they can fornicate without protection.

Roosh is again assuming that his behavior in his “pickup artist” years — when he was obsessed with “raw dogging” — matches the behavior of all other “fornicators.” (Sadly, it does match most American Fornicators)

Roosh goes on to charge both straight and gay men with having “sex with partners they have no feelings for.” This time he uses an example from his own life rather than simply projecting his experiences onto others.

Many times I would dance like a monkey for a girl I didn’t like, to entertain her and maintain her attraction, just so I can access her hole and have an orgasm. … Through fornication, both gay and straight stop viewing human beings as human, but as vessels to a sex act that is barely more intimate than masturbation, and any means will justify that end.

Well, yes, if you’re a manipulative shithead who insists on having sex with people you hate … there’s a pretty good chance that no one is going to have a good time.

As a new convert to Orthdox Chistianity, Roosh makes sure to mention God and his basement-dwelling friend, denouncing the allegedly “Satanic” consequences of the sexual revolution that gave Roosh his career as a (very bad) writer in the first place.

He ends with this uplifting passage from the Book of Roosh.

A society of homosexual fornicators, flaunting their behavior in public, can’t be achieved without first having a society of heterosexual fornicators. Both go hand in hand to divide and destroy both sexes while preventing the creation of families. More severely, fornication separates you from God and destroys your soul, one casual hook-up at a time. It pains me to think of how deceived I was to partake in this evil for so long.

Dude, it’s actually a good thing that you feel guilty about what you did. But you’re not feeling guilty over the right thing. It’s not (consensual) fornication that’s the problem; it’s the rapes that you so casually confessed to in your dating guides date-rape manuals.

Your God may forgive you for that, but we won’t.

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 months ago

@ Vicky P

Wait, can we infer from that that today is your birthday?

If so, Happy Birthday!!!

(And that is such a lovely thing to assign someone the benefit of your birthday wish!)

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 months ago

@Alan

Yes, it is. My friends and family have been showering me with books, which proves how well they understand me. 🙂

Now I just need to hear that my friend can accept phone calls. He’s got a hell of a recovery ahead of him.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@Victorious Parasol – That’s a relief. I hope his recovery continues to go as well as possible.

In good medical news, my neighbour’s father recovered after being put on a ventilator for Covid-19. He’s also about eighty and has kidney problems, so I thought he was going to die, but he started getting better and is now almost back to normal. So hopefully he can have a few more years with his kids & grandkids.

As for this post, Roosh is an abusive (and, memetically, unwashed) asshole – plus his writing is repetitive and boring – but David’s phrase “uplifting passage from the Book of Roosh” made me laugh.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Victorious Parasol
Happy Birthday and best of luck for your friend’s recovery.

Bananananana dakry: Quarantine-Haired, still Fat and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Quarantine-Haired, still Fat and Deranged
3 months ago

@Victorious Parasol

That’s wonderful. Best birthday gift ever.

At the risk of TMI IRT Roosh blathering about how mouths are not places to put penises, I rather suspect Mr. Dakry would argue a lot. Then again our sex life is probably much better than Roosh’s these days. The sad part is, we can count on one hand how often in a year we have it.

At least we fricking enjoy it when it happens, which is more than what probably can be said about Roosh and the poor women involved.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 months ago

Happy birthday, VP, and I’m glad to hear about your bro’s recovery!

Alpine, RN
Alpine, RN
3 months ago

On the bright side with regard to Roosh’s guns, he lives in, afaik, Silver Spring, MD (one town away from me…yay). they are SEEEEERIOUS about weapons here, so close to the Tangerine Menace. Most likely he’s just posting it because he’s an aging wanna-be cool dude, and thinks it looks cool. I almost want to be like “Dude. go back to the bread making thing, that was actually kinda objectively not awful (except calling it a “bread scientist”) and you werent hurting ANYONE if you were making a decent loaf of bread”…in fact, he should bring them to church! he might actually get a happy reception for something he did, completely unconnected to a need for power…might blow his mind.

Tovius
3 months ago

@Victorious Parasol
Happy birthday! I hope your friend recovers quickly.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 months ago

Thank you, everyone!

Getting back to Roosh, it continues to boggle my mind that Roosh seems unable to accept the idea that his is not the only perspective. He lied and used substances to get women to sleep with him; therefore, every sexually active man MUST do the same. What a sad, small world he lives in.

Moggie
Moggie
3 months ago

@VP:

Getting back to Roosh, it continues to boggle my mind that Roosh seems unable to accept the idea that his is not the only perspective. He lied and used substances to get women to sleep with him; therefore, every sexually active man MUST do the same.

This is a common theme with the kind of people we talk about here, isn’t it?. For example, there’s a totally objective scale of hotness which can be applied to women, and anyone who claims to be attracted to larger or mature women is either lying or [redacted due to comments policy]. I still don’t understand how this attitude can survive until adulthood. It seems more common on the right than on the left, though the left aren’t immune.

P.S. happy birthday!

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 months ago

@ Moggie

Exactly! I know I still get surprised when I learn about something outside my own experience (including the experience of reading about other perspectives), but I generally process it okay. I at least admit that it exists. So often Roosh and his ilk talk about their experiences as if they are not only correct but the ONLY way to be. Anybody who says otherwise is a liar. Here endeth the lesson according to Roosh.

I don’t get it.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 months ago

@Victorious Parasol, happy birthday! I’m glad you got your loving birthday wish, and I hope your friend’s recovery goes well!

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Alpine

if you were making a decent loaf of bread

That’s a big if. Last we saw, his bread didn’t turn out all that good looking:
comment image

Maybe he’s gotten better, but I can’t imagine he takes all that kindly to constructive criticism.

@Moggie

I still don’t understand how this attitude can survive until adulthood. It seems more common on the right than on the left, though the left aren’t immune.

I think it survives because they assume any other opinions are eeevil conspiracies against them and double down over and over again. I think it’s more common on the right because the right has a higher percentage of cishet white men, many of whom are socialized to expect that the world revolves around them and then assume that their opinions are universal.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 months ago

Clearly, he decided he was better suited to beard making than bread making.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Rabid Rabbit
That’ll prevent him from ever becoming friends with the TERFs. They hate beards.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 months ago

@Naglfar:

Unfortunately, that means we have to find two different rooms to quietly board up while they’re not looking, as opposed to being able to just lock the door of one.

Kevin
Kevin
3 months ago

@ Everyone who picked up the Royal Bank of Ankh-Morpork question, house point awarded. Nice to touch base with other Pratchettians now and then.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
3 months ago

@Paireon: Yeah, didn’t mean to imply disgusted with ones genitals should be universal. That would be my own issue/hangup. There’s nothing wrong with my body, except that it’s mine if that makes any sense.
@Naglfar: Right, I’m reminded of the whole gold-star lesbian thing (though I’m sure gay guys have something similar). I came to my own realisation about my bi-ness fairly recently but yeah it doesn’t come up much for similar reasons (also, I’m in a committed relationship so there’s usually no reason to bring it up, my partner knows though as they are bi themselves).
@Catalpa: Fair point, I guess the TERFs have to get credit for fighting for some kind of equality I guess. But as usual they are scraping beneath the bottom of the barrel.

@Victorious Parasol: Hopefully this will mean a speedy recovery for your friend and a happy birthday for you.

Crip Dyke
3 months ago

Getting in a Celebratory Birthday Wish for VP with 30 seconds to spare… make it 20.

Crip Dyke
3 months ago

Okay, having had a chance to catch up on the thread, I’ll add my happiness at VP’s friend’s ongoing recovery.

Also, if you’re using a bread-making machine, you’re not really baking bread. I make focaccia once a month or so, on average, and pizza dough from scratch multiple times per week (usually about 2, but it can be more if I’m in a food rut). I went on a kick making my own sourdough starter and keeping it alive for about 8 months while baking 2 large sourdough loaves every Saturday using a friend’s kitchen.

I say all this not because I want a cookie, but because I’m a complete amateur, and in the past couple years I’ve easily made more than 50 loaves of bread… and I can tell you it ain’t nothing like using a bread making machine. (It’s also not that hard, at least to learn the basics!)

So I remember his bread-making kick, and he was begging for praise. If all that was just tinkering with the ingredient list before shoving things in the bread machine, I have as much respect for his effort as I would for him if he decided to try a couple different detergents in his washer to see which ones cleaned his clothes the best.

What a tosser.

———————-

Speaking of tossers. FOX news is once again trying to create trouble by badmouthing progressives. The result is an incredible laugh riot:

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Battering Lamb

though I’m sure gay guys have something similar

Some gay men take it a step further. In addition to “gold star gay men” (which are exactly what they sound like), there are some men who call themselves “platinum gay men” as they have never had sex with a woman and were delivered by C section so they have never touched a vagina even during birth.
The main issue with the gold star thing in gay men and lesbians seems to be that it’s trans* exclusionary—sleeping with a trans* person is often seen as losing the star because of genitals.

@Crip Dyke

So I remember his bread-making kick, and he was begging for praise. If all that was just tinkering with the ingredient list before shoving things in the bread machine, I have as much respect for his effort as I would for him if he decided to try a couple different detergents in his washer to see which ones cleaned his clothes the best.

As far as I can tell, that is all it was. Roosh claimed an extra layer of sophistication because he apparently has a degree in microbiology. Evidently that didn’t help his skills at pouring ingredients into a machine.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 months ago

Roosh claimed an extra layer of sophistication because he apparently has a degree in microbiology.

LOL how on the world does a degree in microbiology help you bake bread? It’s well known that you put the salt and the yeast on opposite sides of the bowl before you mix up your ingredients. What other microbiology wisdom is there?

Allandrel
Allandrel
3 months ago

@Naglfar,

“Platinum gay” makes even less sense, as it isn’t even based on any choices they’ve made.

It’s also really misogynistic to act like vaginal birth makes you somehow tainted or less special.

Really, the only thing being delivered by C-section means is that you can kill MacBeth, and as Tolkien pointed out any woman could have done that.

Cats In Shiny Hats
Cats In Shiny Hats
3 months ago

@Victorious Parasol

Belated happy birthday!

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@PoM

What other microbiology wisdom is there?

I think the constant talk about microbiology was because he didn’t want to seem feminine, and so he had to repeatedly reassure himself it was Manly Man-Science Science Man. Here’s a takedown of his video. He also cited research “online” so that shows the level he’s at.

@Allandrel

It’s also really misogynistic to act like vaginal birth makes you somehow tainted or less special.

Oh, it is misogynistic. I would guess it comes from a desire to prove themselves to other men.

I also just looked it up and apparently the term “platinum lesbian” refers to a lesbian conceived via IVF or artificial insemination*, so it’s not just gay men who say things like this.

*Apparently some other women use it to refer to having never kissed a man, this was just one definition.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
3 months ago

@Naglfar, Battering Lamb:
Back around 1990, Roberta Gregory did a short comic book story called ‘Sleeping with the Enemy’ which involved two relatively quiet bi individuals getting together, both of them having to downplay or hide the relationship from their rather more vocal same-sex-only friends. (Which, of course, was one of the things they had in common.) I think that was the first I learned that discrimination against bisexuality was also a thing from the homosexuality side.

Which, sadly, didn’t surprise me, because people are people.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 months ago

I think the constant talk about microbiology was because he didn’t want to seem feminine, and so he had to repeatedly reassure himself it was Manly Man-Science Science Man.

Microbiology has little to do with baking, though. Sure, it’s there, with yeasted products, but there’s a lot more chemistry involved and the microbiology of yeast is pretty simple. You add warm water, sugar, and live yeast, and keep it away from the salt until you’re ready to mix up everything. VOILA. Now, if he were baking with something interesting, something that isn’t your common baker’s yeast … but that is asking too much of someone who can’t be bothered to knead his own dough.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 months ago

I’m snobbish enough that my only “bread machine” is my KitchenAid stand mixer, but one of my sisters uses a bread machine because with her schedule, she can’t make fresh-baked bread. It’s a shortcut for her. It helps that she has openly envied my bread baking skills. 😉

But as proud as I am of my bread baking skills, I don’t feel the (k)need to call myself a “bread scientist.” I bake bread, with results good enough that my friends ask what KIND of bread I’m bringing to the party, so I’d put up my Old Order Amish bread or my Scottish buttermilk bread or my kolach against Roosh V’s products any day of the week.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 months ago

I can’t bake bread at my own home because I don’t have enough counter space to knead the dough (no counter space also means no bread machine). I used to bake every weekend, though, when I lived elsewhere that had lots of counter space; I would make 3 loaves and eat them over the course of the next week, usually making sandwiches out of them. I braided my dough to give it an interesting texture, and once for a couple of months I experimented with sourdough starter. Conclusion: delicious, but not worth the effort.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@PoM

Microbiology has little to do with baking, though.

I know, but the average manospherian doesn’t know or care. It’s just credentialism when Roosh talks about it.

Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
3 months ago

Darn, I’m late but

Happy Birthday VP!

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 months ago

@ Jesalin

You’re not late – you and anybody else who wishes me a happy birthday today are just turning it into a MULTIDAY CELEBRATION.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Victorious Parasol
So if we keep it up you’ll have a whole birthday year? It seems like we now need to wish everyone a happy birthday each day.

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
3 months ago

Belated B-day congratulations, VP!

(I was half tempted to wait for tomorrow to add to the multi day celebration, but I would totally forget so…)

Shadowplay
3 months ago

@VP

Adding my Wishes for Many Happy Returns to your birthday week celebration!

ColeYote
ColeYote
3 months ago

At a time in my life when I was attacking homosexuals for their degenerate fornication lifestyle, I was participating in a degenerate fornication lifestyle. Outside of the difference that they had sex with men and I had sex with women, our lifestyles, moral outlook, and approach to intimacy were almost identical.

Oh, ew, fuck Daryush for implying I’m anything like him, I oughta sue for libel.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
3 months ago

@VP

Happy belated birthday.

irene
irene
2 months ago

This shift in the manosphere/far-right away from standard misogyny and toward these bizarre anti-sex, anti-pleasure ideas is so fucking weird. It’s like extreme prudish moralism combined with the most regressive imaginable sexual norms. Seems pretty much like the nazi crusade against “sexual bolshevism” and “degenerate art”.

I suppose if I thought this creepy rape shit he does was representative of all sex, I might be against sex too…