By David Futrelle
Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the regulars are celebrating women — or at least that small portion of women who are willing to date Men’s Rights activists.
“Men in r/mensrights love women and many of us are in a happy relationship with a woman,” declared an MRA called zogins in a post that’s gotten more than 800 upvotes. He went on to rhapsodize about his girlfriend, whom he described as “like no one I have ever met before.” And she’s not the only good one in his book:
[T]here are lots of women out there who are nothing like the radical feminist bitches who taint the reputation of other women.
It’s a safe guess that when he refers to “radical feminist bitches” he is not talking about actual RadFems but rather every women who’s ever expressed even the mildest feminist sentiment in his general vicinity.
My girl even knows that I post on this sub but we do not go into what I write. I would have no problem if she ever asked to see what I post. But the best thing is that we respect each other’s space and we don’t do that sort of thing – prying into each other’s business.
Her deliberate ignorance of the shit he posts on r/MensRights is probably one of the main things thing keeping the relationship going, I would guess.
After all this, for some reason, zogins threw in a brief review of the 1991 film Thelma and Louise. Needless to say, he is not a fan.
A couple of nights ago we watched ‘ Thelma and Louise’. It is considered the ultimate feminist, man hating movie. My partner was the one to tell me that every man in the movie is a caricature of manhood. She told me that the film portrays Thelma and Louise as the heroes but they are the ultimate villains.
He finished up with a stirring call to action, if posting on the internet can be considered action.
It would be great to hear from other men here who have positive experiences with women – let’s destroy those man hating radical feminists by sharing happy stories!
A few Men’s Rights Redditors dutifully posted vague hosannas to their own girlfriends and wives, but there was one non-girlfriend-related reply that stood out to me — and to a lot of the subreddit regulars, who gave it nearly a hundred upvotes. It came from a fellow called vlo1:
yeah, we’re not incels, despite what 3rd [wave] femtards believe.
He later, er, clarified his remarks after it was pointed out to him that some MRAs are indeed incels:
EDIT: For clarification, I didn’t mean none of us are incels, ofc I understand some are, but not all.
But I”m more struck by the lovely term “femtards,” presumably meaning feminists.
Maybe this is just me, but I somehow find it difficult to believe that anyone who unironically refers to feminists (or women in general) as “femtards” probably is not the world’s number one respecter of women.
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@MansVoice
Please tell that to the anti lockdown protestors.
Even if your 14% were accurate (and I have my doubts seeing as many people answer surveys a certain way to look better, as a general flaw of self reported surveys), that would still be a lot of people, as Mabret pointed out.
It wasn’t liberals who made it a partisan thing. It was conservatives who proudly refuse to wear masks and hold up signs about how God is protecting them. It is conservatives who hold anti lockdown protests.
Wielding AR-15s at an anti-mask rally and hanging the governor in effigy over the matter is putting in a little more effort than answering a survey.
So, again, when are you going to address my critique of your “women are shallow” “study”?
This objection doesn’t really make sense here, because the relevant action (mask-wearing) is itself performative. I suppose it’s possible a respondent might say that they approve of masks and then refuse to wear one when they go out… but this seems unlikely. If they’re going to cave to social pressure in an anonymous survey, they’ll almost certainly do the same when they’re actually out in public with real people. And if they wear the mask, what they “really” think about it doesn’t matter.
No, I don’t think so You had a handful of pseudo-Randian Midwesterners making jackasses of themselves, and it was covered in the liberal media/social media as if they represented some kind of mass conservative movement. They did not, and they do not – but not coincidentally, this was about when the president started publicly refusing to wear a mask. He didn’t start this. You did.
@MansVoice
And when will you finally answer all our questions on looksmatching?
@ mansvoice
That seems a pretty common phenomenon. Over here they call it “shy Tory syndrome”. Even with anonymised non face to face surveys people tend to give answers they feel put them in a better light “Do you think we should spend more on social programmes?” – “Of course!” – *Does tax return to ensure minimum liability*
Social pressure can be a strong influencer; but it’s a local phenomenon. If you’re in an area, or even a bunch of people, who share your views (which is often the case demographically and by way of association) there’s both the anonymity of being part of a group, which diffuses personal responsibility; and virtue signalling (in the technical sense) to feel included. So if you neighbours/friends don’t wear masks, you might not either.
@MansVoice
This is like shitting on a chess board, then when people point that out you get humiliated and say they started it. It was those who refused to wear masks that started this, not the media that reported on it.
@Naglfar
Don’t you know? Racism isn’t bad; it’s pointing out racism and putting a spotlight on it that causes true societal division. Misogyny is just a harmless thing; it’s protesting misogyny and pointing out the damage it does that causes the true harm. People don’t like being called racist or misogynist; it’s calling those things out that makes them feel bad about themselves and causes problems, not the fact that they did that racist/misogynist thing in the first place.
This is the “don’t rock the boat” argument. It misplaces blame for the boat rocking, from the person who is bouncing around and jumping up and down, to the person who, instead of busily steadying the boat, is instead pointing fingers at the bouncy disruptor.
@PoM
Sadly, a very similar argument was playing out on “dirtbag left” Twitter yesterday where a bunch of cis YouTubers were trying to claim that calling out transphobes and punishing them is more damaging to working class solidarity and leftist progress than the transphobes themselves, and that trans* people just need to live with it. This belief isn’t limited to the right wing.
@Naglfar:
You misunderstand me. The clutch of protesters may be the ultimate source of the controversy, but it’s the media/social media who covered it as emblematic of American conservatism. That is to say, it is the media (and social media) who turned mask-wearing into another partisan issue in the broader culture war. They did not have to do that.
@MansVoice
You said this, but now say the media started all this. So is someone here the media?
For a bunch of mindkilled dum-dums, this commentariat sure is powerful.
@Naglfar
No, it’s true that it’s not restricted to the rightwing. It’s common in the families of narcissists, too, regardless of political leaning, and families with incestuous rapists. The origin of the argument is that the real boat-rockers – the racist, the misogynist, the transphobe, the narcissist, the rapist – are intrinsically unreasonable people who can’t be argued out of their belief in their right to bounce aggressively up and down in the boat. Bystanders see this, and know that they can’t stop the boat-rocking by talking to an unreasonable person; the only hope of keeping the boat from capsizing is to force fundamentally reasonable people into steadying it by “keeping the peace.”
Therefore, the victims are urged and cajoled and shamed and forced into “keeping the peace” by not pointing out how injured they are by the unreasonable person’s actions. The more reasonable and accommodating the victim, the easier it is to force that victim into silence in the name of “keeping the peace.”
@Alan:
Ah, perhaps the only person on this board who is anything approaching a serious person.
A reasonable point. Still, I would counter that the “shy voter” phenomenon is probably most relevant when the relevant behavior is done anonymously, eg voting.
Yes, Alan, the only person posting here who has an unambiguously male name, is also the only reasonable person here. I’m sure that’s a complete coincidence.
I think you know exactly what I meant.
Normally I would simply ignore this sort of comment, but I thought I’d spotlight it as an example of the sort thing that disinclines me to respond to you in the future.
@MansVoice
I’d say it’s pretty emblematic when the President, the most powerful member of the Republican Party, openly supports the protests and calls for them to “liberate” the states.
Is it possible you think that because Alan is one of the people who has a typically male ‘nym?
I suppose it’s unsurprising that you would think this.
Naglfar, you’re not the dumbest person here by a long stretch, but I have to admit you’re testing my patience.
Hey,
ChucklesMansVoice, you have stated that women by virtue of not dating their “looksmatches” are not being decent. You believe, though you have failed to support this belief in any way, that attractiveness is objectively measurable and therefore a given person’s looksmatch can be objectively determined. You have stated that women cannot be sexually attracted to their looksmatches; we are forced by our hypergamous natures to only feel a sexual attraction to men much more attractive than ourselves. (Or at least this holds for those of us who are attracted to men. It is unclear if you’re aware that there are women who are not sexually attracted to any men.)My questions to you are these: Do you believe there is a manner in which women can behave decently? If so, does it necessarily involve them having sex with men who they do not want to have sex with? Can men be decent without having sex with people they don’t want to have sex with? Finally, if it is true that women can only be decent if they have sex with men they do not want to have sex with, do you propose any system by which we can convince, coerce, or force women to do the decent thing which they by definition do not want to do?
I assure you that Alan is not on your side, dipshit.
Who taught you to neg? That’s not a very good one.
@MansVoice
So, either a faceless mass of people you consider The Others or Naglfar specifically, until you realized your “no, you” line was a tad schoolyard and went with the media instead? Okay.
Now that you’re done spotlighting me (thanks!), can you answer the serious questions that have been put to you?
Also, no disrespect to Alan, but I don’t think this guy would recognize a serious person if one tapped him on the shoulder. I mean, he considers himself one, and can’t seem to understand that others don’t.
@MansVoice
Was that supposed to be an insult? I’m not sure how it’s supposed to be insulting.
@PoM
Maybe Heartiste?
@Naglfar
That grand thinker on the same level as Rene Descartes? Maybe!
@Naglfar
Not an insult nor a compliment. It was just a statement.
The “dumbest” person here – in terms of sheer inability to engage in conversation, reading comprehension issues, poor rhetorical/logic/argumentative skills, etc. – is probably WeirWoodTreeHugger. Granted, I haven’t been here too long, so maybe that view will change. Regardless, this community has a low collective intelligence; that much is obvious.
I got the impression that anti-lockdown movement and anti-masking movement (inasmuch as they exist) partly consist of different people.
Much of the anti-lockdown emphasis seems to be on “freedom to live as normally as you want”, which doesn’t necessarily preclude taking personal safety measures, such as masking or social distancing (Indeed, some of the protesters have been seen wearing masks, which seems to confuse critics). Obviously, though, the movement also attracts all kinds of pandemic denialists, from conspiracy theorists to business shills to weekend warriors. Generally, people who think they can protect themselves by taking personal measures (in absence of general lockdown) are either very privileged, or misguided about the nature of the pandemic and their own ability to protect themselves.
Anti-masking movement consists of random people who hate a particular safety measure, and some pundits who seek to politicise everything about the pandemic. Apparently, if the anti-maskers ever protest publicly, they tend to do it under the anti-lockdown banner. OTOH, probably some of them support general lockdown at least tepidly. Many of them are probably pandemic denialists, while others emphasize personal freedom, or don’t believe in the usefulness of masks against COVID-19.
Edit: Whoa this thread is too fast for me to discuss anything.
I think that Man’s Whine shouldn’t be allowed to post here anymore until he answers the questions about how exactly women are supposed to go about dating their looksmatch and how objectively beauty is measured.
Or until he admits that his assertions have nothing to do with science and he’s just mad that women can choose who they do and do not date and/or have sex with.
The correct term is “neg.”