Categories
Uncategorized

Incel wounds three in Arizona mass shooting; incels call “false flag” and claim they’re being persecuted like Jews in Nazi Germany

By David Futrelle

On Wednesday evening, a 20-year old construction worker drove to the Westgate Entertainment Center, near Phoenix Arizona, a popular spot for shoppers and diners that had only just been reopened to the public after the state’s quarantine restrictions were lifted. He was armed with an AR-15 rifle.

In a live Snapchat video he told the world that “I’m going to be the shooter of Westgate 2020. This is to get back to mean society, so let’s get this done.”

Then he marched into the mall, AR-15 in one hand, cell phone in the other, ultimately gunning down three victims — none of whom, thankfully, have died — before his rifle jammed. He streamed at least some of his rampage on Snapchat, excerpts of which are going around online (I’m not going to link to them.) Police arrived quickly and arrested him, they said, without incident.

Yesterday, at the shooter’s first court apperance, Maricopa County prosecutor Edward Leiter filled us in on what he said were the shooter’s motives. The shooter, he said, had told investigators that he identified as an incel, and that his shooting rampage was an attempt to

tak[e] out his expressed anger at society, the feeling that he has been bullied, the feeling that women didn’t want him.

The shooter, he continued, “specifically said that he was targeting couples,” and indeed two of the victims were reportedly a couple.

Do we need to know any more about this creep? We don’t need to know any more. This is all textbook incel shooter shit. And it’s the second time this week I’ve had to write about a would-be mass murderer motivated by incel ideology. The first was a Toronto teenager charged with terrorism after he attacked sex workers with a machete at a massage parlor; one of his victims died.

As I do every time an incel murderer (or, in this case, would-be murderer) appears in the news, I made a depressing trek over to the Incels.co forums to see what the regulars there were saying about this wannabe Elliot Rodger.

And it was mostly predicable stuff. Depressing, but predictable.

“All hail St. Hernandez,” wrote someone calling himself universallyabhorred, “though his count was low, his heart was in the right place.”

“AnothER saint,” agreed FinnCell, capitalizing the initials of incel mass killer Elliot Rodger, almost universally beloved by the incel crowd.

Others mocked the shooter for not killing anyone in his rampage.

“[H]is count was ZERO,” complained IncelKing.

The dude was such a failure that he even failed at going ER. Now he’s gonna rot for the next 25+ years in prison because he didnt even kill himself after the attack, ovER for him.

Nystagmuscel added:

He is a retard who couldn’t even kill anyone at close range. Fuck him

The Incels.co regulars seem most bothered by the fact that the shooter didn’t finish off one woman who was caught on his video pleading for her life. (At this point in his rampage his gun may have already been jammed.)

“This is why when you go ER you must be 100% commited,” wrote werty1457. “He’s gonna get life and he didn’t even kill anyone, sad shit.”

But both the cheering squad and the complainers were overshadowed somewhat by those claiming that the gun rampage was somehow a false-flag setup designed to make incels look bad — and make it easier to round them up and put them in camps. One commenter wondered aloud if the shooting was “another crisis actors pys-ops.” Another declared that it “[c]ertainly looks like a hoax … .”

“It’s obviously fake,” wrote someone called Arthas93.

((they)) are not even putting effort in it anymore. Can almost see the ketchup packs.

Low effort, bad direction. It’s like a bollywood movie. This psyops got a C- for lack of effort.

Meanwhile, someone called chudur-budur suggested that Hernandez had been “framed,” as part of a nefarious plot to target “ugly men.”

“Now every crime is somehow related to ‘I.N.C.E.L,'” he wrote.

[G]et ready to be sent to gulag buddy boyos (assuming you are genuinely ugly virgin and not a larper).

We used to make jokes about this, but looks like it’s getting real.

“For real,” replied based_meme.

We were really joking about this shit for a couple of years. Now it’s likely to become a reality that we might get arrested for just being ugly misogynists.

In a followup comment, chudur-budur added:

They were trying to frame ugly men for a long long time, through title 9, consent circus and shit. But it was not effective or quick enough to lock us up. Now they are coming up with these incel “””attacks””” to legalize any ugly men to be detained.

While some blamed the alleged plot against incels on the Jews (see above), others suggested, as one commenter put it, that incels themselves were “being persecuted like the jews in germany.”

So on one side we’ve got incels lionizing this creep as a “saint” On the other we’ve got incels angry at him for not being more bloodthirsty. And then smack dab in the middle we have the “false flaggers,” pretending that this shooting is some sort of elaborately staged psyop aimed at them.

No one needs to stage anything. These murders and attempted murders are the inevitable result of the poisonous incel ideology, which encourages young men to stoke their already extreme anger and bitterness that they can’t have the adoration of the very particular subset of women they desire — and then tells them there’s nothing to do about their predicament but to kill themselves, preferably after killing a lot of “normies” first.

The incels lusting for more blood aren’t really much different from those crying “hoax.” Indeed, one of those talking “false flag” is using a picture of the Aurora theater shooter as his avatar. These are aspiring villains who see themselves — and want others to see them — as victims.

I feel sympathy for lonely, depressed men; I’ve been one. I feel sympathy for bullied boys; I’ve been one of them too. But I can’t feel sympathy for incels any more than I can feel sympathy for Nazis. Incel ideology takes normal loneliness — the kind that almost all of us have felt at some time — and turns it into hate, directed inward and outward at once. It’s toxic to anyone who is touched by it, whether incels themselves or the people they victimize.

I can only hope I don’t have to write another one of these posts any time soon. But tomorrow is the 6th anniversary of Elliot Rodger’s killing spree in Isla Vista, California — the incels are already celebrating — and I’m not hopeful.

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

We Hunted the Mammoth relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!

101 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Test (Take 2)

Nanny Oggs Busom
Nanny Oggs Busom
4 years ago

How sad! I hope the victims of this particular scrape of faecal matter recover quickly and aren’t made bankrupt by the medical fees.

Being fond of a true crime podcast, I listen to two, by the same team, from Phoenix, Arizona. This has provided me with the information that Maricopa County is notorious for its corruption and that the local gaol (sorry, US spelling, jail) is, or was until recently, an absolute hell hole. Rodents in the toilets and cockcroaches by the thousands. I’m sure they’ll make this wannabe mass murderer very welcome.

OT, sorta but, @Paireon,

Also am almost 40 virgin, autistic, non-confrontational IRL, rather enjoys metal for catharsis. Strange minds do indeed think alike. Although I’ve long since given up caring about the lack of sex, got other stuff to be doing. Plus, the thought of people touching me squicks me out.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

@Nagfljar : in my opinion, even before range the bigger difference is training needed to need one. It’s patently clear that a significant part of mass shootings are made by people who only have the barest idea of how to operate a gun, so trying to hack people with a sword would fail at the first one or before.

Humans also are inherently reluctant at killing each other, and getting over that hardwired barrier is easier with easier to use weapons. Hence why drones is the easier way to make a man a killer. (still create a ton of PTSD)

I wonder to which extent mass shootings are an impulsive act from the guy doing it. Some clearly aren’t, but in a lot of case they don’t seem to have thought this through. That being said, unlike suicides, we can’t really have statistics on whether they would do it again if stopped.

(it’s obviously encouraged by several kind of assholes that manipulate that for power or to satisfy their own assholery)

@Nanny Oggs Busom : either he can be rehabilated, and that prison both lower the odds of it and is unfit for humans, or he can’t and should be killed*. Him suffering won’t help anyone, and might encourage a sadistic need of seeing people suffer.

* note : I believe everyone can be rehabilated and society should do honest efforts to at least try.

Paireon
Paireon
4 years ago

@Naglfar: LOL, no worries, I have plenty other life goals (being somewhat socioeconomically functional being one; it’s a work in progress, but that’s mainly because it is for most people anyways so I’m rather content with said progress even if it’s non-stop work).

I’d also say rate of fire and basic lethality has something to do with it; AFAIK the average person with a month’s training in swordfighting won’t be much more lethal than they’d be with a switchblade or kitchen knife, even in a target-rich environment within easy range of their weapon; properly connecting with a killing blow with a sword is harder than it looks, and usually slower (had a few fencing courses back in the day, and a couple friends who took medieval swordfighting classes, which gave them roles as extras when the movie Timeline eneded up being shot in our neck of the woods) whereas the same person with a month’s training in firearms with an assault weapon will be able to dish out multiple potential “killing blows” (i.e. high-caliber projectiles) per second. Add that to much greater range, as you said, and it’s a potentially deadlier situation by orders of magnitude.

Allandrel
Allandrel
4 years ago

As a physically disabled, autistic man with body image issues, who didn’t go on a single date in college and didn’t actually have sex until age 38, and who has still never been in a relationship: Fuck these assholes.

Turned out that sex was fun, but it didn’t change my life. My life did not suddenly have meaning that it lacked before.

But I suspect that a big part of that is that unlike with incels, I did not see it as an act of domination, and they make it clear over and over again that domination is what they actually want.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Kätzenjammer
I do recall hearing about that shooting, sorry about that.

@Nanny Oggs Bosom

This has provided me with the information that Maricopa County is notorious for its corruption and that the local gaol (sorry, US spelling, jail) is, or was until recently, an absolute hell hole. Rodents in the toilets and cockcroaches by the thousands. I’m sure they’ll make this wannabe mass murderer very welcome.

I don’t live in Arizona but I mostly know about Maricopa County because of its infamous sheriff Joe Arpaio, who would regularly stop and harass POC for no reason and kept prisoners in in humane accommodations and illegal chain gangs. Trump commended him because of course he did.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
4 years ago

@Allandrel

Turned out that sex was fun, but it didn’t change my life. My life did not suddenly have meaning that it lacked before.

But I suspect that a big part of that is that unlike with incels, I did not see it as an act of domination, and they make it clear over and over again that domination is what they actually want.

I’ve gathered it’s kind of a thing with incels to be disappointed if/when they do have sex, probably because they’ve built it up into such a huge thing. It doesn’t seem to make them re-evaluate their stand on life, since part of the problem is that they (at least claim to) view themselves as irredeemably sub-human and so think they can’t affect their lot in life.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
4 years ago

@Paireon

It’s true that I’m not shy in being very direct and very clear about what a male in terms of his physical body and emotional makeup has to have for me to desire him and make him part of my stable (make him that if he wishes of course).

Other people of any gender or gender expression are welcome as friends if (as is normal for humans) they’re kind. That’s how it should be! If a cishet guy I’m not attracted to and is not of the type I’d choose for my stable (that is, something romantic/sexual) then if he wants to be friends, great.

Although we obviously don’t know each other I can tell from what you write that you are respectful and genuine and I wish you well just as you do me.  I so appreciate that you disdain the NiceGuy(TM) type of fake friends who think they earn attraction. You disdain of those types speaks well of you.

So often in my past a guy I am not attracted to sexually says he wants to be friends but then has NiceGuy(TM)-ed me.  Because of what I do being my friend means a person is going to have to be cool with my BDSM performance art and the kinds of romantic relationships I have. It’s a big part of my life and important to me. That means I dress differently on an everyday basis than most cis women  and if someone isn’t ok with that, they aren’t being a good friend. I dress that way as part of my artistic expression and if a cishet guy is my friend he should be able to be around me without leering.

And they have to understand that I take seriously what I do. So much BDSM out there even with dominant women is still defined by and all about what (some) *men* want. So a lot of guys see me and get all fascinated with me for carrying a whip but so many just assume I’m their stereotypical dominant woman straight out of patriarchal heteronormative porn. (I’m *not* judging that imagery and think if that’s someone’s thing that’s totally cool, I’m just resisting against any bigger aspect of it that structurally defines women against their will or inclinations).

My whip is not just a prop. Carrying it and knowing how to use it connects me with the Divine Feminine and helps me embody Her. And it takes a lot of practice and study to use a real bullwhip.

Cracking my whip is part of normal conversation for me, if I am making a point I feel strongly about or my instincts tell me to. People who are my friends need to understand how important my whip is to me and that it’s not just a prop, like so many horny guys seem to think. For example, wherever I go I have to be constantly aware of how much open space is around me, where other people are and watch to make sure they don’t move unexpectedly so I can do certain cracks when I want. And any friend of any gender needs to understand how important the males in my stable are to me.

It’s not the only thing obviously but it’s important to me. A friend of any gender gets that. If a guy friend has unrequited feeling and attraction to me and feels bad seeing me dressed like I do, talking about what’s important to me and stuff then he needs to be an adult and deal with it. I’m just living my choices and not judging him *as a person* but rejoicing in who I am and loving my art. He can always choose not to be around me if he prefers.

Like if a friend sees or calls or messages me to ask me about my day and what’s on my mind there’s a good chance I’ll be talking about the body of some guy I’ve stabled and my plans for me and him.

I say “stable” as noun and verb both because I mean both literally and figuratively. In the few months before the pandemic as I grew into my practice and started combining performance art with life, through journaling and meditation I realized that for the cishet men I *am* attracted to I no longer want traditional cishet dating and moved towards a very structured polyamory built around consensual and safe BDSM, with lots of protocol. When my donors and former mentor (still with her but she’s more like a sister and collaborator now) were working with me on designing a space for me we actually had compartments for live modeling (think like about the size of a suite department store dressing room but with each little compartment having a plexiglass full door front) so I am going to have literally a stable of sorts.  ) So my relationships with the men I *am* attracted to are already very different than what most guys indoctrinated into patriarchal culture expect. If a friend wants to get together to hang out, I’m probably going to suggest a place where they know me and what I do and are cool with it all. So depending on what’s going on that day I may be with one of my guys from my stable and just bring him along for my enjoyment, which shouldn’t detract from spending time with my friend, if the friend isn’t a NiceGuy(TM).

So men who are able to get all this and actually be my friend and treasured and valued. The incels don’t get that I have no desire ever to harm a person (of any gender) I’m not attracted to…I just want to be who I am and choose.

I appreciate your posts and all your good wishes. I send them back to you.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
4 years ago

@Alan

Thank you for the link to the video about performance art history!

Kietazou
Kietazou
4 years ago

Not that these self-pitying Incels (and all their near-kin) have or can be given the smallest or most gentle clue, but if you kill (or celebrate killing) others out of hatred, you have very much in common with Nazis and nothing at all in common with their victims*.

*There is also a very, very high chance that you share a bizarre fear-hatred of Nazis favorite targets: Romani, blacks, gays, and of course Jews.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Kietazou

There is also a very, very high chance that you share a bizarre fear-hatred of Nazis favorite targets: Romani, blacks, gays, and of course Jews.

I haven’t heard incels say much anti Romani stuff (probably because that hasn’t crossed their minds), but most of them seem to be racist, homophobic, and antisemitic to an extreme (especially the last one, as a lot of them blame their issues on a Jewish conspiracy).

Paireon
Paireon
4 years ago

@Kätzenjammer: Yeah, as a fellow Canuck and someone who remembers the Polytechnique massacre very well (I’m from Montreal’s suburbs), that was a dark time last month.

@Allandrel: Our views are pretty much the same then.

@StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved: Heh, thanks for the compliment; I’ve pretty much always tried to be an actual nice guy rather than (to steal your way of typing it) a NiceGuy(tm), and by and large I’d say I succeeded. And that was very interesting – if I ever end up in New York in the future I may try and go see one of your shows (if I can spot it; I’m completely unfamiliar with both the performance art AND BDSM scenes even in Montreal, so I’m not sure I’d know where to search in New York…).

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

O/T, but now incels are very upset about couples eating sushi.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

@Nagfjar : I suspect it’s because we mostly hear of the american one and Romani are a thing in Europa.

If one think that being a muslim in France to be too easy, the next difficulty level is being a romani in France. Cops burning down the romani slum is something that happen.

It’s, as often, very self-sustaining since the poverty and unstability generated by the brutality and racism mean they very often resort (or are coerced into, hard to say) to thievery, which make the prejudices against them look true.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
4 years ago

@Paireon

My formal performance art pieces are usually in invitation-only venues. And while it’s true that my everyday activites and performance art do blend together, who experiences that depends on myself and that person, not just what that person tell me he/she/they might try and do.

So your statement about what you might “try and do” is rather presumptive, which is ironic given what we were just saying about respect.

Also I don’t discuss my location beyond saying that I’m in the U.S.

Paireon
Paireon
4 years ago

@Naglfar: Probably “helps” that Roma people are pretty rare in North America; although that didn’t stop at least one hilariously stupid rant from (not incel AFAIK but very much far-right) wingnut Canuck Ezra Levant: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ezra_Levant#Jews_vs_Gypsies

(For extra irony points Mr Levant himself is Jewish, which means his fandom is mostly comprised of people who hate his ethnicity’s very existence… consistent and self aware, bigots are not)

@StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved: Sorry, wasn’t aware of your shows’ nature as invitation-only private gigs… I don’t want to invade your privacy either (plus at times still socially inept, awkward, and forgetful). Hope you’ll forgive me.

Dalillama
Dalillama
4 years ago

@Naglfar
Virtually nobody in the States is aware that there are any Romani here, or that they know any. There are roughly a million Romani in the US, but they usually publicly identify themselves as Hungarian or whatever other nation their immigrant ancestors directly hailed from. Since they mostly all live perfectly normative lives, nobody’s really aware of them. As I understand it, they mostly prefer it that way, nothing good comes of the gadjo knowing who you are.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
4 years ago

@Naglfar:

(follows sushi link)

Wow.

I had a co-worker who once went on an angry rant because her godson and his fiancée had invited her to the wedding, and this was (in her mind) *obviously* a set-up so the bride’s family could look down their noses at her for not being as rich as them, and I was going to say “but this is next level,” but actually I think my co-worker still holds the record for paranoid narcissism.

Nequam
Nequam
4 years ago

[looks at sushi freakout tweet] What does he mean by “mogg”?

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
4 years ago

@Paireon

My posts are long and as others has said before have dealt in detail with subjects that some people like and some don’t. So I don’t expect everyone to read every single thing *I* write but if a person does *and* wants to respond *and* expresses interest, that person should pay attention. I have said several times that my BDSM and performance art is spiritually important to me so a person who reads that should I think know it’s more than a gig.

When I had my salon hostess job *that* was different and if I do that work again that is very different. I am fully present physically and emotionally for any of our clients from the minute they walk in. 🙂 As in any person, any gender *there* can look at me as much as that person likes. 🙂 There it doesn’t feel like a leer. But like I said the name and place of where I hostess I understandably won’t discuss here considering that we know incels and other misogynist creeps do crawl in here and read this.

I find what you said very disrespectful and you were right to apologize. I sympathize with feeling socially awkward as I was slut-shamed when younger. But socially awkward is not the same thing as presumptive. I expect that if you’re interested in engaging here in this venue with me you will not show that disrespect again, however, I accept your apology.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ stacey

Thank you for the link to the video about performance art history!

You’re very welcome! Hope you found it of some use.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Nequam

[looks at sushi freakout tweet] What does he mean by “mogg”?

It means to be out-alphaed, short for “AMOG” meaning “Alpha Male Of Group.”

@Dalillama, Ohlmann, Paireon
I don’t at all mean to downplay discrimination against the Romani or the oppression they face. What I meant to say is that for the reasons you mentioned (like that there are few openly Romani in the US), most incels probably don’t know about them or think about them. My apologies if I at all minimized any of the anti Romani discrimination.

Nequam
Nequam
4 years ago

@Naglfar: Oh, that’s just stupid.

Also, even if all the Romani in the US were out and proud (so to speak), they’d still comprise only 0.3% of the population based on the numbers of 1 million Rom/331 million US population total– which means the odds of most Americans actually *meeting* an honest-to-God Romani are very small!

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
4 years ago

@Alan

Yes, I did! It really made me think!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ stacey

Ah cool; hope it inspires you to further great ideas!

I quite like performance art. I’m a bit of a conceptual art fan; and I see it as a sort of subspecies of that.

I love it when art has an immediacy about it; like it instantly hits you in the psyche; but conceptual/performance art can ferment away in your brain for ages afterwards as you process it and it sends you off on multiple mental journeys; and I get a real buzz out of that too.