By David Futrelle
Fellas, is it gay to date a woman?
Signs point to “yes,” at least if the person reading the signs is a MGTOW Redditor called DannyTTT55.
In a recent post on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, he suggests to his fellow men that unless you’re a true alpha male who doesn’t give a shit about the women he has sex with, dating a woman makes you a cuck in her eyes.
Why? Because you’re dating her, and she known she’s just a worthless slut who deserves nothing better than blatant disrespect.
“At least on a subconscious level, these women know they are a dumpster fire of a human being,” Danny writes,
that’s why if you try to date them normally and treat them with respect, they can’t have any respect for you
It’s like the old Groucho Marx thing of not wanting to be in any club that would accept the likes of him as a member. Except that this version of the old joke isn’t funny, and it involves the word “cuck.”
How can they possibly treat you any more than a cuck while you’re sitting across at dinner from them, waiting at least three dates to hold their hand, while in the back of their mind they’re remembering the gang bang they had a couple years back when they were still “having fun”
Like a lot of manospherians, Danny has a vivid imagination when it comes to the sex lives of other people he knows nothing about.
That’s why the only guys they respect are bad boys who treat them like crap, because deep down inside they know they are crap. They need to constantly boost their ego somehow so they aren’t ashamed to be treated like a regular human being, because they know all they deserve anymore is to be pumped and dumped
Huh. No wonder women want guys like this to make good on their promise to Go Their Own Way, far away.
Commenter Chadrith_Thundavisht agreed with Danny, writing that women are
so desensitised to compliments and all that happy horseshit that it probably engenders frustration to the point they actually WANT a piece of shit to treat them like a piece of shit. Look how many douchbags they go out with and you think to yourself “wtf is going on here!? That guy?!”.
I am shocked — shocked! — that straight and bi women are sometimes shallow when it comes to picking out men to date, because clearly no man would ever make that mistake.
The only other explanation for this is the negative animus complex but I bet my left nut most women are sick of the blue-pilled grovelling and seek out fuckwits to date just to break up the monotony and go ‘southy’ for a bit. They know there’ll be plenty of blue fishies in the ocean when they’re about to walk down washout lane.
Speaking of shocks, it’s also quite stunning (not) to see one of these guys citing some half-digested bit of Jungian theory to explain why women are bitches and hos.
A commenter called Evergreen35, meanwhile, reported that his
biggest Red-Pill was realizing how turned off my last girlfriend was when I told her that I loved her.
Ok, but maybe that was because you’re the kind of guy who reads the fucking MGTOW subreddit for advice on women?
When I ignored her and showed less interest, she always came back to me looking for attention. The less you care, the more she wants you, and vice-versa.
Maybe because she knew you were a shitty dude and was glad to have a less-then-fully-committed relationship with you?
Just spitballing here.
A commenter called breakingthebarriers said he thought that the OP was overanalyzing the whole thing.
From what I’ve seen I don’t think it’s even this deep though.
When I look at the behavior of women, I see a simple creature controlled by an ever-changing volatile melting pot of unchecked emotions. A simple creature unable to comprehend the chaos it creates.
Ok, but how exactly does a melting pot control a creature? Does it have little arms it uses to manipulate the creature like a puppeteer would? I don’t think this guy is able to comprehend his own metaphors, much less the inner life of women.
But it wasn’t just breakingthebarriers who thought the OP was overestimating the cerebral powers of women. According to Zevren_LT,
You are implying, that a woman has even on the basic level the ability of self-reflection.
Which is, in my opinion, far too generous.
Reading too much into them – elevates them needlessly. So we should stop sugarcoating something – which is in truth far simpler and sadly also crueler.
Our minds like to read something more into it as a cope mechanism, when we cant believe the simple truth.
I think these guys have it all backwards. I don’t doubt that a good number of the unfortunate women they go on dates with treat them with disrespect. Not so much because the women in question hate themselves but because they hate you guys for believing the shit you do about women, which I don’t doubt you share with your dates.
Dating while MGTOW must be an ordeal, but that ordeal is nothing compared to what dating one of you — even for the length of a dinner — must be like. And on some level these guys (or at least that portion of them capable of self-reflection) know that they’re the problem — that they themselves are the ones who deserve the disrespect.
Put that in your melting pot and smoke it, guys.
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@Moggie
I … don’t know! It’s free for me to watch, but I don’t know if Amazon pays anybody royalties for a free Prime view.
Maybe I should skip it just to be sure. Yeah. That’s why I’m skipping it. Heh.
@Schnookums
Just read the article and…eww. The world does not need more radicalization fuel and propaganda that downplays how evil incels and the manosphere are. The biggest surprise for me was that incels cooperated with a woman director.
@Naglfar:
Don’t you mean ‘femoid’ director? 😉
Have you considered being a decent human being?
Have women considered behaving decently? Have they considered abandoning Hypergamy and settling with their looksmatch? Or do they continue to be a narcissistic garbage fire?
Of course, it’s the latter. Why should Men pretend women are decent if they are not?
You’re so precious! Like a cute little boy stamping his little feet and shaking his tiny fist. I’m charmed!
@ mansvoice
You still haven’t produced any examples or evidence for your assertion that women, as a group, don’t behave decently. So repeating the question seems a bit valueless.
Assuming you’re using hypergamy in the technical sense, then most people marry within the same social class. A minority of women do marry men of higher social status, but a larger minority of women marry men of lower social status.
https://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/press-releases/modern-women-marrying-men-of-the-same-or-lower-social-class
So your question is based on an incorrect premise.
Attractiveness is of course highly subjective. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” etc.
However when people are asked to rate subjects in terms of perceived attractiveness (you’ll like this paper, they do that “I rate this woman 7/10” thing that you MRAs seem obsessed with.), once again, most people marry people of similar attractiveness; but of those that don’t, women are more likely to marry men rated as less attractive than themselves.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lisa_Neff/publication/5584694_Beyond_Initial_Attraction_Physical_Attractiveness_in_Newlywed_Marriage/links/55b6b3c908ae092e9656f0eb.pdf
So once again, your question is based on a false assumption.
Hope that assists.
@MansVoice
I have yet to see a woman behaving as poorly as a manospherian. What indecent behavior are women doing anyway?
I’m sorry, I don’t really think much about imaginary phenomena or about why anyone else should dictate my partners. If my partner and I are happy together IDGAF what other people think of our relative attractiveness.
I’m hearing the whine of an insect. Should I break out the citronella candles?
I can’t speak for half of the people on the planet, but yes, I personally have from time to time considered behaving decently.
I don’t know Hypergamy, but if I did, I don’t see how abandoning her would be the decent thing. At very least, I would write Hypergamy a note explaining why I felt our friendship should end.
Unfortunately I do not have the time to meet every man and woman on the planet, rank them by objective attractiveness (definitely a thing that exists), and then demand of the man that is at the same number as I am that he spend the rest of his life with me. I went with the sloppier but less time-consuming option of meeting someone and falling in love with them as they fell in love with me. I apologize if this was indecent.
A garbage fire that is super into itself made up of all women. What an image.
I dunno. We could as soon ask why you have capitalized “Men,” like you consider the members of your gender to be gods or something. Some questions just don’t have answers, my friend.
A Voice For Men, Men’s VoiceI’m interested in how you’re defining “looksmatch”
Please provide pictoral examples matching men with women who looksmatches.
Thanks!
@Viscaria
What did Hypergamy even do? I think we should think about whether their actions merit ending the relationship, I was under the impression it had been amicable thus far.
Narcissistic garbage fire sounds like a decent description of Donald Trump. He’s not made up of all women though.
It reminds me a little of how white supremacists capitalize “White” while leaving the names of other groups lowercase. And I’m guessing it’s for the same reason.
The serious answer is that your definition of a decent woman seems to be one who enters into a permanent sexual and romantic relationship with someone you believe she ought to, regardless of her feelings or even (afaict) her would-be mate’s feelings. As far as I can tell, who gets to have sex with this woman is the only thing relevant to her decency. Her personality and non-sexual actions don’t have anything to do with it. Is this the same definition of decency that you apply to men? Somehow I doubt it.
The reason, then, why you ought to respect women despite them not being “decent” is that you also respect men who are not “decent” by that same definition. You demand that women meet a completely different standard before you will deign to honour us with your respect because you don’t like women and you think of us as sexual vessels and nothing more. Ironically, that’s not very decent of you. Pathetic, yes; decent, no.
I too would like to see some photos illustrating “looksmatches.” Mensvoice should provide them.
I’ve always thought people who didn’t respect others didn’t respect themselves in the first place. That could be key to miggie behavior. Then again, they might just be loathsome creatures and nothing more.
@MansVoice
How is a man being controlling and aggressive “decent”? If a man gets angry he could potentially get violent and use it to murder other men, as history has taught us.
Even if women acted decently, a man could get triggered by anything and act maliciously because society has made war and violence an acceptable or even highly encouraged means of discourse.
Shut the fuck up, fascist.
@ katherine the adequate
A lot of time also, antagonist groups don’t use ‘respect‘ symmetrically.
When they talk of respect for themselves, they usually mean it in the obsequious sense. When they talk of respect for others they mean the ‘acknowledge the rights of…’ definition.
So essentially their stance is “If you give me total obedience I will deign to allow you some basic rights”.
@Mans Voice
Okay, thanks for providing further info. Sorry, not sorry, but I’m going to continue to date Brad Pitt despite the fact that we are in no way a looksmatch.
My baby sister used to throw temper tantrums when she was pre-verbal, and she made about as much sense as MansVoice. Luckily she grew up, and is currently dedicating her life to the care of animals as a vet. She’s done other amazing things, but she’d be embarrassed if I bragged about her. So yes, even discounting the whole sisterly love aspect of our relationship, I’d say she’s worthy of respect.
MansVoice’s tantrum here isn’t even original or very entertaining. What value does he think he brings to the world?
So many questions…
1) Who determines whether a looksmatch has been achieved? Is there an independent advisory board that adheres to internationally recognized attractiveness standards, or are we supposed to consult some random jagoff’s opinion?
2) How many decimal points of precision are required? Is an 8.3492 allowed to match with an 8.3488?
3) Doesn’t the term “settling” imply she is not, in fact, with her looksmatch?
4) So what if one half of a couple is better looking than the other? Who cares?
5) If you find yourself disapproving of strangers’ relationships because they make you feel diminished, is it possible you might be a
?
It seems I’ve ruffled some feathers amongst the local simps and foids.
Perhaps you doth protest too much? Perhaps you all know MGTOW and Incel speak more or less the truth – a truth of which you are terrified? Perhaps your reflexive disgust is a defense mechanism for shielding yourself from the glare of Realtalk?
Nah, it couldn’t be. Could it?
@ mansvoice
Certainly one of those options , yes.
Nope. Well surmised.
@MansVoice
FTFY.
Perhaps your delusions disconnected from reality are a defense from the truth that nobody cares what you think?
Man’s Voice,
Do you think this pairing is horribly unfair to women because they’re not a looksmatch and how can we regular women compete if beautiful women are willing to date guys that look like this?
If it’s not unfair for conventionally beautiful women to pair with conventionally not attractive men, then why is it unfair for conventionally beautiful men to pair with not conventionally attractive women?
And why won’t you share what you consider to be a looksmatched pair?
Ooh I was wondering when that article would get a mention here.
@Schnookums, @Naglfar
The really weird thing is Jessa Crispin has a record of considering current feminism not radical enough – she wants a return to (what she sees as) the unrepentant radicalism of Dworkin and Greer. I have a lot of dire expectations of people who put the second wave on too much of a pedestal, but “would be willing to give incels and their collaborators so much as the time of day” has never been one of them. Especially with the involvement of Ariel Pink, whose Wikipedia bio reads like a straw man supervillain created by a really dire transphobe.
@MansVoice
LOL.
@WWTH
Oh wow. Yeah maybe I’ll find a guy like that attractive when I’m also in my 80s, but in my 30s? Hell no. *shudder*
And you could even prove it if you’d only provide the looksmatch pics that two different people have asked you for. Looks! Match! Pics!! Looks! Match! Pics!!
I’m kidding, of course. Acknowledging that people have asked you to defend your point in any way would keep you from pretending that we all just got our jimmies rustled. If you engage with us, you are forced to admit we engaged with you.
I’m guessing we’re not going to see you again in this thread now that you have declared your victory. In a couple days, though, you’ll be back, making the same absurd and unsupported claims in another thread. And some people will offer their support for the opposite view, and some people will ask you to support your own position, and some people (me) will make fun of you, and then a couple of hours you will be back to say, “Wow, looks like there are some hysterical women here! I must have touched a nerve!” And then the cycle will continue until you get bored or someone else gets bored enough of your routine to request your banning.
@Cyborgette
I’m not really familiar with Crispin or Pink, but that context makes the film all the more surprising in a way. Then again, people can be two faced and hold many contradictory ideas at once, so I shouldn’t be too surprised by this whole thing.
@Viscaria
He wasn’t all that entertaining in the first place, so I don’t have high expectations for the future.