By David Futrelle
Fellas, is it gay to date a woman?
Signs point to “yes,” at least if the person reading the signs is a MGTOW Redditor called DannyTTT55.
In a recent post on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, he suggests to his fellow men that unless you’re a true alpha male who doesn’t give a shit about the women he has sex with, dating a woman makes you a cuck in her eyes.
Why? Because you’re dating her, and she known she’s just a worthless slut who deserves nothing better than blatant disrespect.
“At least on a subconscious level, these women know they are a dumpster fire of a human being,” Danny writes,
that’s why if you try to date them normally and treat them with respect, they can’t have any respect for you
It’s like the old Groucho Marx thing of not wanting to be in any club that would accept the likes of him as a member. Except that this version of the old joke isn’t funny, and it involves the word “cuck.”
How can they possibly treat you any more than a cuck while you’re sitting across at dinner from them, waiting at least three dates to hold their hand, while in the back of their mind they’re remembering the gang bang they had a couple years back when they were still “having fun”
Like a lot of manospherians, Danny has a vivid imagination when it comes to the sex lives of other people he knows nothing about.
That’s why the only guys they respect are bad boys who treat them like crap, because deep down inside they know they are crap. They need to constantly boost their ego somehow so they aren’t ashamed to be treated like a regular human being, because they know all they deserve anymore is to be pumped and dumped
Huh. No wonder women want guys like this to make good on their promise to Go Their Own Way, far away.
Commenter Chadrith_Thundavisht agreed with Danny, writing that women are
so desensitised to compliments and all that happy horseshit that it probably engenders frustration to the point they actually WANT a piece of shit to treat them like a piece of shit. Look how many douchbags they go out with and you think to yourself “wtf is going on here!? That guy?!”.
I am shocked — shocked! — that straight and bi women are sometimes shallow when it comes to picking out men to date, because clearly no man would ever make that mistake.
The only other explanation for this is the negative animus complex but I bet my left nut most women are sick of the blue-pilled grovelling and seek out fuckwits to date just to break up the monotony and go ‘southy’ for a bit. They know there’ll be plenty of blue fishies in the ocean when they’re about to walk down washout lane.
Speaking of shocks, it’s also quite stunning (not) to see one of these guys citing some half-digested bit of Jungian theory to explain why women are bitches and hos.
A commenter called Evergreen35, meanwhile, reported that his
biggest Red-Pill was realizing how turned off my last girlfriend was when I told her that I loved her.
Ok, but maybe that was because you’re the kind of guy who reads the fucking MGTOW subreddit for advice on women?
When I ignored her and showed less interest, she always came back to me looking for attention. The less you care, the more she wants you, and vice-versa.
Maybe because she knew you were a shitty dude and was glad to have a less-then-fully-committed relationship with you?
Just spitballing here.
A commenter called breakingthebarriers said he thought that the OP was overanalyzing the whole thing.
From what I’ve seen I don’t think it’s even this deep though.
When I look at the behavior of women, I see a simple creature controlled by an ever-changing volatile melting pot of unchecked emotions. A simple creature unable to comprehend the chaos it creates.
Ok, but how exactly does a melting pot control a creature? Does it have little arms it uses to manipulate the creature like a puppeteer would? I don’t think this guy is able to comprehend his own metaphors, much less the inner life of women.
But it wasn’t just breakingthebarriers who thought the OP was overestimating the cerebral powers of women. According to Zevren_LT,
You are implying, that a woman has even on the basic level the ability of self-reflection.
Which is, in my opinion, far too generous.
Reading too much into them – elevates them needlessly. So we should stop sugarcoating something – which is in truth far simpler and sadly also crueler.
Our minds like to read something more into it as a cope mechanism, when we cant believe the simple truth.
I think these guys have it all backwards. I don’t doubt that a good number of the unfortunate women they go on dates with treat them with disrespect. Not so much because the women in question hate themselves but because they hate you guys for believing the shit you do about women, which I don’t doubt you share with your dates.
Dating while MGTOW must be an ordeal, but that ordeal is nothing compared to what dating one of you — even for the length of a dinner — must be like. And on some level these guys (or at least that portion of them capable of self-reflection) know that they’re the problem — that they themselves are the ones who deserve the disrespect.
Put that in your melting pot and smoke it, guys.
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Why are you still dating women, MGTOWs? Aren’t you supposed to be going your own way?
If you, too, are a woman, then yes, it is gay to date another woman.
Do misogynists get off on thinking about sexual things they think women have done with no evidence? They spend a lot of time thinking about this.
Yet again, MGTOWs sound exactly like incels. Is it just me, or have they started sounding even more incelish as of late?
Wait…the fish are pills, and they are on the lane, in the ocean? Forget melting pots, this is a mixed metaphor if I ever saw one.
You are implying, that a MGTOW has even on the basic level the ability of self-reflection.
Which is, in my opinion, far too generous.
Reading too much into them – elevates them needlessly.
I wonder how much of their “experience” with “women” is real and how much is invention based on their memories of high school. High school girls are quite varied, but the MGTOW type only sees the pretty cheerleader sort, with all others being invisible to them, and pretty cheerleaders often date the big athletic jocks with whom they spend a lot of time. Being that some jocks are douchebags, simply because some number of any group is going to be douchebags, they extrapolate that all jocks are douchebags, and therefore the pretty girls (the only ones that exist to them) must lust after douchebags for some reason. Being that high schoolers often go through a phase whereby they think that every human behavior is genetic in origin, it would make sense in that worldview to assume that girls are genetically predisposed to go after jerks.
How much red pill philosophy comes from MGTOWs simply running with this juvenile worldview and never updating it? How much is due to their lack of meaningful experience with women? They think of women as a monolith, interchangeable and not really human beings, ruled by their extra X chromosome; that speaks to me of a life experience that doesn’t involve women to any real depth.
Like all bigots, these ones do not know shit from apple butter….
forgive the rash generalization
Have you considered not attacking the messenger? Women have proven themselves unworthy of respect. Therefore, they will not be getting respect. This is their choice.
Simping for women won’t get them to like you, David.
@Policy of Madness, I think it’s a bit more basic than that.
“My life is not perfect.”
“I am awesome.”
“Therefore the things in my life that are not ideal must be the fault of someone else.”
Anyone capable of self reflection is able to spot the flaw in the second premise, but a surprisingly large number of people do seem to feel, at some level, that they really are that awesome and never take responsibility for their state. Which is not to go full Jordan Petersen here and say that nothing is the fault of external factors – plenty of people get a crappy set of cards – but your typical Manosphere inhabitant is a cis white male, and we’re all playing the Game of Life on Easy mode.
@GAZZA
Their ideas about women are elaborate, though. It goes well beyond the normal misogynist notion that women are inferior and not as smart. They have an involved story about Chad, and Stacey, and the cock carousel, and the beta cuck, that reads a lot like a stylized high school drama.
Run of the mill racial bigots will say that black people are genetically inferior, but the racial psychodrama is much simpler, and generally based in old plantation stereotypes. You can trace the origins of contemporary American racism back to the late 1700s and early 1800s, when slaveholders told the same stories about black people that are told today. The red pill story about women also has an origin point, and it sure looks to me like that origin is embittered men remembering popular kid drama as viewed from the outside.
Do these guys, like, sit around watching soap operas and think that’s how life really works?
I always thought there world view was based on 1980s high school movies
@Policy Yeah, but they’re not exactly deeply introspective here. Some idiot came up with the general Chad/Stacy rules, posted it, and has had it adopted. Consider the incel patron saint – his “manifesto” was nothing more than a poorly written amalgamation from various other sources, and he’s essentially their poster child.
I think it’s a mistake to think they have any particular shared trauma and more that they’re just going through a shithead phase – some of whom will never leave it, thanks to the self reinforcing nature of bubbles.
That doesn’t make them any less dangerous you understand.
Maybe the problem is that she noticed this discrepancy between words and behavior?
@MansVoice
Have you considered being a decent human being?
You’re going to have to be more specific. In what ways have women — the entire gender — proven themselves unworthy of respect? I’ll make it easier for you: Name just three ways that all women have proven themselves undeserving of any respect. That shouldn’t be hard.
I like David just fine. He’s a smart and funny guy. I’m going to not go out on a limb here and say that lots of women, including women who read WHTM, like David.
You, on the other hand, get on my nerves.
It almost seems like trying to parse other people’s inner lives without any contact with them was impossible or something.
@MansVoice
So when someone gives you a “message” that is just pure garbage, pointing that out to them is “attacking” them? Is this because it might hurt their feelings, or because if you somehow count as a “messenger”, you’re not responsible for the ideas you spout, even if they’re your own?
Do all messengers deserve this diplomatic immunity, or only those you agree with?
Are these questions an attack on the messenger that is you? Or Kat’s questions above?
Not that I’d want you to write a whole wall of text, but some attempt at something beyond sweeping generalisations would be nice. Though I’m sure looking like a dunce is your choice.
I see this shit and it just makes me want to kiss my husband even more. So glad I have my gentle, sweet loving spouses and that I don’t have the fear that I might accidently come across one of these assholes during dating.
I’m impressed that Danny explicitly acknowledges that women are human. That puts him in danger of rejection by a lot of his fellows.
I’ve been thinking about how being in an “internet bubble” can blind you to the truth, or at least the realization that different people think and feel differently than you. Of course the Red-pill, MGTOW, and incels are extreme examples of this. The original post is a guy who is so deep in MGTOW misogyny that he assumes that the women themselves feel the same way.
Unfortunately it can happen to anybody who doesn’t deliberately fact check themselves or reach out to other communities with opposing viewpoints. Growing up autistic I had to make a conscious effort to try to understand how other people think, but it turns out that not only autistic people have that problem. Unless you make a specific effort to talk to them, or imagine yourself in their shoes, you will probably assume that they think the same thing, or even call them a liar when they express a different opinion. Though when you are talking about groups rather than individuals, there are factors that make vastly more likely that people will ignore the possibility that they are actually different.
Peter Coffin on youtube has some ideas on “Validation Gangs” that are informative. Seeking out like minded people is good for a your mental health, but if the only function of a community is to gather people who agree with each other, their beliefs can drift in weird directions.
This blog…well the examples are chosen for being the worst of the worst, but at least these are specific examples. David Futrelle is deliberately researching these people. Accurately representing the alt-right isn’t the top priority, but accuracy is a priority. A professional researcher who made a conscious effort to give them the benefit of the doubt would still end up with a similarly negative opinion…probably. Sometimes I wonder if this is an accurate representation, but it is accurate enough to make it clear that there are better places to find people who are right-wing yet redeemable.
Do not worry, they certainly have scientific and peer-read reviews published in scientific publications to push this kind of affirmation. They are going to quote them soon.
…
Any time, now.
…
Guys ?
@MansVoice
Remind me what I did to be unworthy of respect? I don’t remember.
@GAZZA
The irony of the Jordan Peterson thing is, the manosphere loves him but is convinced that nothing is ever their fault, that it must be teh evil women.
@MansVoice
If women have to serve men to earn respect, then you are literally excusing their deaths, even if not intended, by insisting they are worthless if they do not live for men. You are insisting on SLAVERY – you are no better than a racist.
Look at what the fucking Taliban brought upon their own society with the sort of system you praise!
@GAZZA
LOL I’m not positing trauma. Just bitterness at not getting the popular girl in high school.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/01/incel-culture-film-tfw-no-gf-jessa-crispin
Well, this was a hot garbage article about ba hot garbage movie about incels.
I have Amazon Prime and nothing structured to do today. Do I want to watch this, or do I want to save my spoons for something less likely to make my soul die a little?
Are MGTOWs teenagers? Because this sounds an awful lot like teenagers moaning that their lives don’t live up to the films they saw.
@ nanny oggs bosom
And now we have anti-lockdown protestors demanding the beaches stay open. Guess they never saw Jaws.
@PoM:
Would that result in any money going to Cody Wilson? Because I don’t think that would be a good thing.
@Nanny Oggs Bosom
Maybe, or maybe they’re just men who never grew past that stage of mental development.