Categories
"ethics" 4chan advocacy of violence alt-right andrew anglin armageddon daily stormer empathy deficit entitled babies genocide is good actually literal nazis men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny rape rape culture rape is good actually sexual exploitation

The Daily Stormer imagines a “bright new” postapocalyptic future ruled over by “Aryan rape gangs”

Andrew Anglin: Rape fan

By David Futrelle

Andrew Anglin thinks the end is near — that the world as we know it will collapse within ten years due to what he sees as a “bizarre” overreaction to the coronavirus. After this particular apocalypse, the Nazi troll writes in a post on his Daily Stormer website, the remaining people of the world will be plunged into a dark and violent time in which they’ll have to struggle just to survive.

And that’s when, in Anglin’s eyes, things start to get fun.

Anglin, a vicious misogynist as well as a racist, envisions a world in which he and other brave Aryan men will gather together into roving “rape gangs,” capturing white women of “breeding age” across the North American continent and turning them into sex slaves, using them to produce pure Aryan children to use as cannon fodder in a genocidal, generations-long race war against the Mexicans.

“The Aryan Rape Gang is the organizational method of this bright new future we are entering,” he explains.

You need to motivate your crew, and give them a purpose and a moral justification at the same time. You also need to win a race war against the Mexicans after most of your own race has been wiped out because they were too weak to survive a societal collapse. All of these problems find an answer in the rape gang to breeding farm pipeline.

Alas, he informs his possible future gang members, he cannot guarantee that all the sex slaves will start as virgins.

We cannot afford to only take virgins. We need all women of breeding age for the breeding farms. Virgins that are found should be reserved for yourself or your top commandants.

The sex slaves will have more than one use, though; they’ll also take care of growing crops and raising chickens while the rape gangs are out pillaging and capturing even more women.

“You should also kidnap male children to use as soldiers in your army,” he adds.

Not Mexican children, of course, but only the whites, as they will remain loyal. In fact, do not even take Mexican females as sex slaves, because whoever fathers their children will want to integrate them, and that mustn’t be allowed. 

He provides this helpful flow chart:

Anglin is especially concerned with providing “moral justification” for the heinous acts he fantasizes about doing, and he returns to the subject again and again, perhaps suggesting that what little remains of Anglin’s conscience isn’t entirely on board with this elaborate rape fantasy.

You … need to explain to your men that the only way to rebuild is to breed an army to fight the Mexicans, and the only way to do that is to hoard women on the farm and keep them constantly pregnant. Your men will like the idea of having sex with many women, and will appreciate the moral justification. …

Your men have to feel they are doing the right thing. They will be doing the right thing, of course, but they need to know that. So if you have to do things like leave fat, old people to fend for themselves after you’ve stolen their children, you must remind your men that this is a war that is bigger than any person – even yourself – and it must be won at all costs. …

Primarily, you need to incorporate religion into your band, which you will run as a cult. You should fashion yourself as both a preacher and a general.

Indeed, in keeping with the religion theme, Anglin offers up some Bible passages that suggest to him that abducting women to use as sex slaves is fine and dandy to God.

Anglin goes into some detail on how exactly the rape gangs should work, where they should set up their compounds, and other logistical details; he’s clearly spent a good deal of time thinking all this through.

He acknowledges that even for those doing the raping, life will be difficult. But he thinks it will be well worth it.

Once we’re in the Wasteland … it’s going to be a hard life and many will suffer and die, but at least it will be fun and interesting, and we will finally be at war with Mexico.

It’s basically going to be like an awesome video game.

That’s what every prepper secretly (or not-so-secretly) believes. It’s not true, and Anglin, who can’t even manage to get along with most of the rest of the alt-right, would likely get himself shot in the back by a former ally pretty quickly in a postapocalyptic world.

Anglin’s fetid fantasies represent the woman-hating ideology of the alt-right — which emerged in part from the misogynistic cesspools of 4chan and the right-wing manosphere — taken to its logical conclusion. Other alt-rightists joke about rape; Anglin openly fantasizes about brutalizing women and treating them like animals.

Now, Anglin is a troll, and so it’s hard to tell how seriously he takes all of what he’s written in this vile post. But he seems pretty sincere about most of his professed beliefs, and the degree of detail in his post suggests he’s thought this adolescent fantasy through carefully. But even if he were just writing the world’s worst speculative fiction, it, like Anglin himself, is still an exceedingly hateful piece of work.

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

We Hunted the Mammoth relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

115 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
CriticalDragon1177 (@CriticalDragon1)
CriticalDragon1177 (@CriticalDragon1)
10 months ago

Doesn’t Anglin attack Muslims and brown people for supposedly doing stuff like this, right now? Seriously through, how is it, that even a Nazi loser like him would not understand how this would turn sane people, “pure white,” or not, against him and his movement? Its not like people, outside of perhaps the most extreme sadomasochists would ever enjoy being raped, and generally speaking the parents along with the friends and families of these girls won’t like it either. Not to mention, how would he tell if these girls were really “pure white or not,” not that that would in anyway make it okay. Oh but I guess that’s just too much to think about for him.

Also, does he not understand how people who he kidnaps and conscripts into his new “Aryan” army will flee at the first opportunity, especially if they already to do not believe in his disgusting cause? Again, it doesn’t matter if they’re “pure white” or not, if they rejected his ideology to begin with.

CriticalDragon1177 (@CriticalDragon1)
CriticalDragon1177 (@CriticalDragon1)
10 months ago

“Once we’re in the Wasteland … it’s going to be a hard life and many will suffer and die, but at least it will be fun and interesting, and we will finally be at war with Mexico.

It’s basically going to be like an awesome video game.”

Yeah, an awesome video game where you sickos will all get killed and destroyed by the American, if not the Mexican Military, or basically anyone who has guns and much more training and discipline than you and your roving gang of psychopaths.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
10 months ago

The comment of CriticalDragon remind me once more that there isn’t a particulary correct term for “people with a realistic assessment of reality”. Because Anglin isn’t clinically ill of anything, and there’s the recurring problem of supposing mental disorder make one more likely to join that kind of shit.

(well, *maybe* psychopathes and sociopathes do have a higher chance to at least initially join it, but the vast majority of nazi and nazi wannabee actually have no disorders apart from a severely problematic view of reality)

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
10 months ago

Doesn’t Anglin attack Muslims and brown people for supposedly doing stuff like this, right now?

Yeah, but I think it’s not the rape Nazis object to. It’s black and brown men spoiling white women who belong to white men to rape instead.

*pukes*

Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

@CriticalDragon1177

Doesn’t Anglin attack Muslims and brown people for supposedly doing stuff like this, right now?

Whenever the far right accuses others of something bad, they’re telling on themselves.

Its not like people, outside of perhaps the most extreme sadomasochists would ever enjoy being raped

I don’t think Anglin cares whether they enjoy it. And some elements of the far right do legitimately think that women want to be raped.

Also, does he not understand how people who he kidnaps and conscripts into his new “Aryan” army will flee at the first opportunity, especially if they already to do not believe in his disgusting cause?

I think white supremacists have an underlying assumption that all white people agree with them but just don’t admit it. Although a frightening number of white people do hold white supremacist beliefs, it’s certainly not all, and even among those that do agree, many probably don’t want to sacrifice their lives for Anglin’s war.

Yeah, an awesome video game where you sickos will all get killed and destroyed by the American, if not the Mexican Military, or basically anyone who has guns and much more training and discipline than you and your roving gang of psychopaths.

Sadly, I feel like if things collapsed the US military might side with the fascists. Military members skew conservative in general, and many seem to embrace Trump.

Allandrel
Allandrel
10 months ago

@Fraser

Did anyone ever watch the old Ken Wahl show “Wiseguy” about a federal agent doing deep cover organized-crime investigations? In one arc they had Fred Ward as “Knox Pooley,” a sleazy salesman who discovered becoming a white supremacist self-help guru was more profitable than used cars (“Don’t blame the Zionist controlled government for taking your jobs! Blame yourself — and buy my book to read the 14-point plan for how a white American can regain control of his destiny!”).

That started in 1987, so I’m wondering if the writers were inspired by Cobra Commander’s depiction in the G.I. Joe comics. He was a used-car salesman before founding Cobra through a combination of anti-government militias, mercenaries, self-help seminars, and Amway.

(They never say that CC’s pyramid scheme is Amway, but they never say it ISN’T Amway, either.)

Wait… mercenaries… Amway… is Erik Prince really Cobra Commander?

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
10 months ago

As I’ve maintained for forever, a “civil war” in a nation with 275 million guns and 300 million gallons of potable alcohol will NOT be a video game. What Anglin, and all like him will do “after the bell rings” is spend their few remailing days watching their friends and loved ones die awful deaths from disease and deprivation. Until they die.

Likely many will join roving bands of marauders, mostly looking for food and/or drinkable water. I can’t speak authoratively on the subject, but I doubt that rape or “breeding” would hold as much interest on a stomach 3-4 days empty.

The right-wing “take back my country” fantasy is just that… fantasy.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

Hmm, sort of relevant to what happens when societies and systems break down.

I must confess, whilst I’m very supportive of the lockdowns generally, I do think countries should consider immediately lifting restrictions that are contributing to this.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/apr/21/coronavirus-pandemic-will-cause-famine-of-biblical-proportions

SpleenyBadger
SpleenyBadger
10 months ago

I’m old enough to remember the days before the internet, when weirdos like this guy would have just had a stash of his ugly fetish pics under his crusty mattress and we’d never have to know about them. I miss those days…

Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw
Most would-be cult leaders like Anglin don’t seem to realize how much he and his people depend on existing supply chains; chains which wouldn’t exist in the condition he predicted. Maybe some preppers have planned (though I don’t know how prepared they actually are for any of that, it seems to mostly be for show), but the vast majority of the people Anglin wants help from wouldn’t survive long in their desired apocalypse.

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
10 months ago

The last two topics posted here rate an eeewww and an eeewww.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

@ naglfar

chains which wouldn’t exist in the condition he predicted.

There was a TV drama here back in the 80s called Threads.

It was about the effects of a limited nuclear strike on the UK. It showed how interdependent and fragile society was (the Threads of the title).

Suggested we might not end up with a Mad Mad style Apunkalypse. More likely traffic wardens shooting looters.

Drungarios
Drungarios
10 months ago

Oh man, I would almost pay money to see these guys try to manage during an actual post-apocalyptic age. Assuming they didn’t starve or freeze to death during their first winter, I’d imagine they’d launch a few raids before being massacred by angry and better organized locals. Maybe shot full of arrows in a wooded ambush, or cut down by a squadron of cavalry provided by the local SCA chapter or something.

Dalillama
Dalillama
10 months ago

@Buttercup

Even assuming these strong, healthy men are somehow persuaded not to rise up and take direct revenge on their galaxy-brained oppressors, there’s no way a slave army is going to be anywhere near as effective as a volunteer fighting force.

Opponents of the Janissaries would beg to differ, but they were very much a special case.

@Alan

Legally though that would require Congress to approve. If they didn’t then Nancy Pelosi becomes President pro tem come 21 January.

Actually, Congress can’t approve that. It would require all the States to agree, and any states that did cancel their elections would just lose their electoral votes.

@Numerobis
He started out by murdering his ex, so probably a family annihilation thing expanded to a spree killing, as is not uncommon with these assholes.

@Drungarios
Given a month to prepare, my pacifist ass could probably handle a gang of maurauders. See, I know how to make both moonshine and methanol from raw materials, and 50 or so gallons of ‘tribute’ should neatly solve thr problem without any further trouble for me.

Allandrel
Allandrel
10 months ago

Anglin’s talk of “like a video game” reminds me of a post I see occasionally:

“In a video game with no consequences, why would anyone play the ‘good’ path?”

“Because my ‘no consequences power fantasy’ is being able to help everyone.”

Terrible people never understand non-terrible people.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

@ dali

It would require all the States to agree

The current legal chatter (perhaps unsurprisingly it’s a bit of a topic at the moment) suggest that this act can just be amended by Congress.

It’s the one that sets the date.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/statutes-at-large/28th-congress/session-2/c28s2ch1.pdf

No doubt SCOTUS would get dragged in if it happened.

Chris O
Chris O
10 months ago

The irony is that in an actual apocalypse, Anglin would probably be one of the first casualties.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
10 months ago

@ Allandrel

It doesn’t help that that belief is pretty much the basis of philosophical liberalism as a whole.

Kevin
Kevin
10 months ago

It’s something of a theme that apocalyptic/dystopian troublemakers are snake oil hucksters and/or fraudulent prophets in popular culture.
Here’s a couple, with their authors. Nehemiah Scudder, establishes a ‘Christian’ theocracy in the USA, story dates to 1950’s or 1960’s I think. Author was A A Heinlein.
Second is Nathan Holn ( I think, maybe some of his senior followers) in ‘The Postman’ having a dodgy sales background. I can’t be sure if I’m conflating the original book and the misfired film adaptation though. Can’t find my copy of the book, dammit! Book dates to 1980’s. Author was David Brin.

IAMMOAC.

galanx
galanx
10 months ago

Speaking of the Nova Scotia massacre, Justin Trudeau has been trying to cover his butt by claiming that he was really going to enforce stricter limits on guns, but then along came corona virus. Can you imagine Trump reacting to a massacre by saying “I was gonna crack down on guns- honest!- but I got distracted.”

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
10 months ago

@Naglfar

Whenever the far right accuses others of something bad, they’re telling on themselves.

This reminds me of a neo-nazi sticker I saw earlier this year at a bus stop. It said (approximately) “Islam is right about homosexuals and women”. This message brought to you by the people who will also tell you they only oppose immigration (from countries that are not primarily Christian) because all those barbaric men just don’t know how to behave around women, and we must protect our gender equality.

It occurred to me later on that perhaps I shouldn’t have peeled it off, since this time they were actually saying the quiet part out loud.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
10 months ago

@CriticalDragon1177

[H]ow would he tell if these girls were really “pure white or not”

His method is a secret. He also has a secret method for determining whether a girl or woman is a virgin.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

Missouri is suing China.

They’re bringing the case in the state courts. Theoretically, if they get judgment they can enforce the order against any Chinese government assets in the jurisdiction (and/or a few other jurisdictions that honour US judgements; there’s all sorts of arrangements for that).

I’m not sure thought that a bailiff would have much joy trying to repo an aircraft carrier. I think the Chinese government might object.

comment image

Moggie
Moggie
10 months ago

@Masse_Mysteria:

This reminds me of a neo-nazi sticker I saw earlier this year at a bus stop. It said (approximately) “Islam is right about homosexuals and women”. This message brought to you by the people who will also tell you they only oppose immigration (from countries that are not primarily Christian) because all those barbaric men just don’t know how to behave around women, and we must protect our gender equality.

And all Muslims speak with one voice, right?

What the Koran really says about women

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
10 months ago

@Dalillama – But even then, they were paid, their families weren’t physically harmed, and they eventually acquired enough power to influence policy, stage mutinies, and replace the Sultan at will through coups. Anglin is proposing more of a scorched earth enslavement, where people are only permitted to live as long as they’re useful to him.

In order to be an attractive long term alternative to starvation, they would need to offer food, shelter, wages, and prestige, not just kidnap and brutalize people. How they think they’re going to provide all that, when they can barely manage to type a coherent sentence and wipe their own rear ends when times are good, is unclear.

Your men have to feel they are doing the right thing. They will be doing the right thing, of course, but they need to know that.

If you have to turn into a cult and heavily brainwash your followers to do your bidding, perhaps it isn’t the “right thing” after all?

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
10 months ago

@Buttercup : he nakedly propose the same slavery as the one in north America after the European got here. I am not sure he is aware it was exceptionaly brutal even by slavery standard, and if he is, it’ a pro in his opinion.

He also visibly have 0 idea of what allowed it to “work” in the first place, as in, why they weren’t too many slave revolts and equivalent.

NOBODY
NOBODY
10 months ago

@Drungarios

Nice shout out to the SCA. Frankly a typical mob with pitchforks could probably dispatch these numbskulls, though most of us have a small armory of mixed swords, daggers and the usual suspects. But if I was organizing a low tech resistance, it would focus on earthworks, pikes, polearms and archers. Lots and lots of archers. In the battle of Agincourt thickets of arrows fell every five minutes. Unless these madmax invaders are well armoured and trained (lol), even with guns they’re screwed.

@Dalillama

Given a month to prepare, my pacifist ass could probably handle a gang of maurauders. See, I know how to make both moonshine and methanol from raw materials, and 50 or so gallons of ‘tribute’ should neatly solve thr problem without any further trouble for me.

Lol, mkay. Marauders by definition just kill people and steal their stuff. Or enslave them if they’re really forward thinking. But maybe you’ll get lucky.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
10 months ago

@NOBODY : your plan of massed archery have the problem that, you know, archery is a difficult skill that take years and years to master. Earlier firearms won because they were massively, and I mean massively, easier to use. (which is still the case : a soldier with a M16 and three weeks of training is still order of magnitude more dangerous than a bowman with three week of training)

The Battle of Agincourt is an outlier, and few nations had a great number of well trained archer because that was an incredibly hard asset to train.

I think the plan of Dalillama work most of the time, but s/he might encounter a group that want a fight or don’t trust him or simply is unprevisible or high on whatever they looted elsewhere. Still, the average marauder will take the booze and fuck off if offered. It’s not like looters and the like hate free stuff.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
10 months ago

@Allandrel:

Because my ‘no consequences power fantasy’ is being able to help everyone.

Preach it! (Speaking as someone who still plays Champions Online, as silly as it can get. Superhero MMORPG, and superhero only; you can’t explicitly create villain characters.)

I’m also reminded that the modern idea is that the old pop psychology concept of ‘letting steam off’ as ‘catharsis’ doesn’t actually work… instead it just lets you practice being angry and letting steam off, making it easier for next time.

@Kevin:
Robert A. Heinlein, yes. People have been making Scudder references for a while, given how blatantly theocratic Pence and a number of the other higher level politicians are. (Trump’s only God is himself and Mammon, in that order, and he doesn’t exactly make a secret of it.)

@galanx:
*sigh* Trudeau… I’ve noted before that my comment to an American once about what people in Canada thought of Trudeau was ‘about what people thought of Obama partway through his term… he talks a good game, but he’s not the game changer we thought we were voting for’.

Really, saying something like that now pretty much is ‘virtue signalling’. He should say that this proves the need for better laws, but shouldn’t say that better laws were planned before the distraction. That just makes it all about him, and it’s not a good look.

@Alan Robertshaw:
I haven’t seen that, but I’ve heard enough about it from other sources. And, well… I work for a company that supplies equipment to supply chain management companies. I’ve talked with people who’ve done retail and wholesale ordering before (one person I knew from a writer’s group could rant for a while, with numbers, about how WalMart made suppliers dependent on their own marginal-profit business). People have been talking about how toilet paper shortages are at least partly the fault of the supply chain, because consumer grade and commercial grade paper often aren’t even made by the same companies.

If anything, those issues have gotten worse over the last few decades because of ‘Just In Time’ inventory management. Nobody wants to pay for warehouse space, and things work more efficiently as a result, but the other result is that the system is a whole lot more fragile to unexpected disruptions. Like the current pandemic.

Heck, it shows up enough in fiction. In Daniel Keys Moran’s The Long Run, the main character ends up giving an economics lesson to a revolutionary by pointing out that stopping all trucking in the U.S. would probably kill millions within the first few weeks. Millions of the people said revolutionary was trying to liberate.

@Ohlmann, and others back to the original topic:
With Anglin, ‘has 0 idea’ is a pretty general statement. Yes, the North American slavery only worked due to brutality, massive levels of social engineering (the Southern Baptist Church was pretty much explicitly created to find Biblical justifications for slavery), and the fact that basing it on skin colour made it relatively easy to tell who was a slave and who wasn’t at a glance. (For the first generation, at least.)

Anglin thinks he can handle the first two, but treating it like a video game is where he discovers that the ‘easy mode’ of being a straight white cis male doesn’t stand up against lots of other people operating in the same mode who disagree with him.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
10 months ago

@Ohlmann, NOBODY:
Not to mention that even looters are often smart enough to realize ‘Hey, I just take this, I don’t get into a fight where any of my guys might get injured, and he’ll still be around next month when I come back to see if he’s got more. Win-win!’

Neutral people who provide essential supplies can end up being pretty close to untouchable, because anybody who messes with the supply finds that a lot of the gangs in the area may be willing to put aside their differences to stomp the person making problems.

(Admittedly, that doesn’t necessarily apply if anybody has sole control of the area and is powerful enough to hold off all comers.)

NOBODY
NOBODY
10 months ago

April 22, 2020 at 10:46 am

@Ohlmann, Jenora Feuer

Those are good points.

1. Dali said “marauder”, a description that does not usually involve reasonable people making rational calculations. Almost by definition they are predators, who prefer violence and bullying and will take as much as they can get away with. Eventually you will have to kill these people or leave the area.

You are probably thinking of stressed groups who raid or loot out of need. Those are just desperate people and can be worked with in time.

2. Defense: realistically any defense after an extended social collapse will be a mix of modern and primitive tech. By the time bullets become scare any organized community should have enough archers to be a not insignificant factor. And guns do not maintain themselves. Even nukes need maintenance to stay effective.

So we’d just have to see where the curve on learning low tech skills would meet with the discipline of gun maintenance over time. And assuming no new manufacturing, it would only take a couple years, especially if there’s as much conflict as these clowns imagine, before guns are the deciding factor they were.
Remember, this is THEIR power fantasy…pew, pew, we take what we want. Pew, pew, next week all over again. Not sustainable.

And in any event, the general point is these wanna road warriors are woefully unprepared for the resistance to their dark fantasy because they underestimate anyone who is not a white racist gun humper.

NOBODY
NOBODY
10 months ago

*before guns are no longer the deciding factor they were.

Dalillama
Dalillama
10 months ago

@Nobody

Lol, mkay. Marauders by definition just kill people and steal their stuff. Or enslave them if they’re really forward thinking. But maybe you’ll get lucky.

Worst case, leave a bunch of clearly labeled booze and run for it. Undisciplined bandits will pretty much always stop and loot rather than work at chasing someone.

And assuming no new manufacturing, it would only take a couple years, especially if there’s as much conflict as these clowns imagine, before guns are the deciding factor they were.

Why are you assuming that? Anybody with a metal lathe can turn out new barrels til the cows come home, and black powder’s easier to make than booze if you have the knowing of it. For that matter, nitro powders aren’t terribly difficult, especially if you’ve got a chemistry reference to hand. This isn’t and S.M. Stirling novel, there’s a shitload of machinery that ain’t going anywhere, and there’s no plausible apocalypse that puts overall tech back by more than a century or two.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
10 months ago

@NOBODY:
The thing is, pure marauders don’t usually last too long unless they’re by far the most dangerous people in the area. (And even then they usually burn out or fall to infighting.) Once news spreads that they won’t accept anything short of killing and/or enslaving anybody they come across, well, a lot more people become interested in fighting to the death against them because that’s pretty much what will happen either way. And unless they are incredibly thorough in a way that requires at least as much planning as a more reasonable approach, news will get out.

As for guns… well, half the reason why the AK-47 is used by so many militia and insurgent groups around the world is that it is really low maintenance. Waiting for them to run out of spare parts might take longer than you expect.

But you’re right in that this is purely their power fantasy, and rather a stupid one that pretty much assumes they will be the ones able to create an empire and misses that most of the Hollywood stories they’re basing their fantasy on have the sort of empire they want as what gets taken down by the heroes later on. We seem to be just arguing over the details of which direction they are most wrong in.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
10 months ago

@Moggie
Thanks for that link!

Though I do believe people like these probably think everyone in their enemy groups thinks and believes exactly what all the others do, and if they’re on the brink of finding out that’s not actually the case, it’s No True Scotsman time.

Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

@Jenora Feuer

We seem to be just arguing over the details of which direction they are most wrong in.

That seems to be the case with most manosphere/alt right people: it’s easy to tell they’re wrong, but they’re wrong in so many ways it’s hard to know exactly which way they are most wrong in or where to start breaking it down. Or they qualify for what RationalWiki calls “not even wrong.”

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
10 months ago

@Dalilama : in addition to that, crossbow are probably easier than guns, and are highly preferable to bows. (or at least, manufacturating a crossbow have a lower ceiling in term of mishap than gunpowder)

The biggest draw of the bow is that it’s a simple enough idea to have. Same for slings. But except if the apocalypse is doubled by general amnesia, people will remember thoses complicated to imagine but reasonaly easy to do things, like gunpowder, crossbow, and probably other contraptions that I forget.

Similarly, bicycles don’t need a super duper high technology to be created, and are a very big improvement over feets. Probably better than horses too for a lot of uses.

Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

@Ohlmann
And even beyond bicycles, it is possible to run motors on a variety of fuels so some people could convert cars to use sources other than petroleum based fuels.

Sheila Crosby
10 months ago

@Naglfar I have a niggling memory of somewhere (Rhodisia?) converting train engines to run off elephant shit. Honest to God, elephant shit.
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard of cars running off coal or chicken shit – well, methane generated from chicken shit. And I believe you can add 10% used cooking oil to deisel without any special treatment.

Of course most of those require engineers.

Allandrel
Allandrel
10 months ago

@Ohlmann

Bows do have a number of advantages over crossbows once the archer is proficient. They have a drastically higher rate of fire, are easier to maintain, and are less likely to foul.

(At Crecy, the mercenary crossbowmen’s weapons were rendered inoperable by heavy rain soaking their strings, which could not be quickly removed and replaced with dry ones like a bowstring. Their rate of fire was also hampered because their heavy shields that doubled as a reloading aid got left behind with the baggage train.)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

@ ohlmann

archery is a difficult skill that take years and years to master.

Yup. As the saying used to go “To train a long bowman, start with his grandfather.

You definitely had to start very early in life. English law had rules pretty much making archery practice compulsory. Archeologists can easily spot longbowmen as their skeletons are deformed from the drawstrength needed.

comment image

The Battle of Agincourt is an outlier

One bloke at Agincourt was killed by a firearm. That must have bene doubly annoying.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

ETA:

It wasn’t really until the Springfield rifle that there was a firearm that was as accurate, quick to reload, and carried the kinetic energy of a longbow. But firearms became popular long before that. Partly it was easier to train people. But there’s also the ‘bang bang’ theory. Warfare is often psychological. Loser is whichever side cracks and runs first. And the noise and smoke of gunpowder is far more terrifying supposedly than facing arrows.

Dalillama
Dalillama
10 months ago

@Naglfar

And even beyond bicycles, it is possible to run motors on a variety of fuels so some people could convert cars to use sources other than petroleum based fuels.

That’s the other reason to set up a methanol still, yes.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
10 months ago

I wonder, though, if a modern army, trained with guns and used to the racket of firearm combat, would be equally freaked out to face a silent-but-lethal rain of projectiles with no flash or sound to clue them in to the enemy’s position …

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

@ surplus

would be equally freaked out to face a silent-but-lethal rain of projectiles

Jack Churchill used a longbow in WW2.

He’s the chap here. With the sword.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/jack-churchill.jpg

Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw
Any relation to Winston?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

@ naglfar

It’s believed not. Certainly the families can be differentiated as far back as the 1400s

He didn’t always take on artillery with a sword or longbow. Sometimes he used bagpipes.

TacticalProgressive
TacticalProgressive
10 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw

Oh yeah, I remember “Mad Jack”: he was quite the eccentric figure in WW2 Military history.

Dalillama
Dalillama
10 months ago

@Alan
And then there was Major Tatham-Worter, who parachuted into Occupied France with an umbrella, because he couldn’t remember the passwords and reckoned that only a British paratrooper would go into battle with an umbrella, so that was his pass. Also he took out a German armored car bt jabbing the driver in the eye with it via the vision slit.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
10 months ago

@ Dali

Indeed; and when told by another officer “That umbrella won’t be any use” he replied “But what if it rains?”. Can’t fault that logic.

Although on another occasion he escorted a padre through a gunfight reassuring him “It’s alright; I have an umbrella”.