By David Futrelle
So the MGTOWs on Reddit are discussing the #SexWorkIsWork hashtag, and they have some, well, interesting takes on the subject.
One fellow uses the power of math and a lot of dubious assumptions to “prove” that if sex work is work, those doing the work should only be earning sixty cents per fuck.
I was wondering when ‘SexWorkIsWork’ and for this assumption to be true it should look like this:
1. Paying taxes
2. Minimum wage – The only requirement is legal age
3. Continuous work – with one short break in 8 hours
Example based on data from United States in 2019: 7,25 USD/h is minimum wage
The average intercourse time is little over 5min (date from google)
One hour has 60 minutes so: 60/5 = 12 number of intercourse per hour
7,25 USD / 12 = ~ 0.60 cents
So if ‘SexWorkIsRealWork’ – intercourse should cost 60 cents in such a rich country as USA
Yeah, that’s not how any of this works. Sex work involves a lot more than the literal act of intercourse, as I’m sure everyone but MGTOWs and other misogynists are aware. (Indeed, there are many varieties of sex work that involve no intercourse at all.)
Also, equally obviously, no one can fuck for eight hours. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ. I challenge this dude to peg himself with a dildo for even six hours and see how much he likes it.
But I do think this dude has accomplished a couple of things here. First, he inadvertently shows how shitty minimum wage jobs are, and why we need to immediately raise the minimum wage to $15/hour or more.
Second, he reveals how bad sex is for a lot of people. Five minutes? I hope the people bringing the average down are doing things other than intercourse as well.
Another MGTOW offers this bit of dubious wisdom:
Sex work isn’t gonna repair a generator.
Ah yes, because only mechanical work counts as real work, and everyone other than mechanics is doing fake work.
I can’t help but wonder how many MGTOWs could repair a generator, or even identify one in a room full of heavy machinery. Given how well they handle basic cooking, I can’t say I trust that any of them are very handy with their hands.
Then there’s this guy, who thinks that it’s the johns, not the sex workers, who are doing all the work.
If it’s real work, then it’s low value work. Unless she’s riding that cock like she’s riding a pissed off bison, the man, as always is doing the work. Paying a hooker too much so you do the bulk of the effort is like paying a plumber only so he can watch you unclog the toilet.
Yeah, a few desultory thrusts aren’t “work,” dude. And neither is sex work — or sex — very much like unclogging a toilet.
Well, to be fair, sex with a MGTOW would probably be equally disgusting, and there might be a similar sense of relief once it was done.
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@Allandrel:
I guess I don’t get it. My work never required me to use a micrometer, but I have one in my toolkit. When you buy a micrometer, it will come with brief instructions, and you’ll be using it like a pro within minutes, regardless of what your job is. It seems like a strange thing to pick to play the “my job is harder than yours” game. I bet the responses were a riot!
I have repaired generators, and I have used micrometers, and neither of them got me (or anyone else in the building) off. So, not like sex work.
Seriously, good and educational points like always.
@Amtep : if only. Remember most sex workers aren’t independant, and proxenetism is a thing. In fact, I would argue that the specificity of sex work is that a lot of sex workers are forced into it because while most can do it, few want to do it.
@Buttercup : it’s not like their claim of only men doing work was credible in any sense beforehand. If a MGTOW was the last man on earth, I am pretty sure he would say nobody else do any work because the others are feeeeeemale.
@Moggie : they could take log tables and slide rules as items that do require at least minimum knowledge to use, are iconic for engineers (or at least to me), and fill a useful purpose (even if a computer is probably easier to use for that). I guess it would make entirely too much sense for them tho.
Does this doofus think that giving a blowjob is a passive act?
I was initially confused by “micrometer”. Now I get it’s some technical measuring tool, but here it probably has a different name because here, micrometer is a unit of distance.
Naglfar wrote:
There needs to be a proper technical definition for pegging. For example, the following issues need to be clarified:
Does it require an assisting partner, or just the one person to be penetrated?
Does the penetrated person need to be a man and/or AMAB?
Does the assisting partner need to be a woman and/or AFAB?
Does the penetration tool need to be pelvis-mounted (as opposed to, say, handheld or forehead-mounted)?
Does the penetration need to be anal?
@Lumipuna
Micrometer is usually a unit of measure, but it appears that it is also the name of the measuring device. I usually refer to the tool as a “caliper” but I’ve heard both names.
Re: pegging
I’m not the expert, but Dan Savage originally had a vote that resulted in this term specifically to refer to a cis woman penetrating a cis man with a strap-on. He didn’t say anything at the time about mounting location or trans* people, but from what he did say at the time, it seems the answers to your questions are:
1. Yes, it requires an assisting partner, otherwise it’s just masturbation.
2. He originally said it needs to be a man, with no mention of AMAB people who aren’t men or of trans* men.
3. He said the penetrating partner did need to be a woman, so I’m not sure if non-women using a strap-on count, or about women who have penises.
4. He didn’t say anything limiting location but only mentioned cases of pelvic mounted strap-ons, possibly because that is usually where penises are.
5. He said it must be anal, but that could be because he was only thinking of cis men, who usually don’t have vaginas.
Since language is free to be used how people want, I guess it’s up to individuals how they want to use the term.
@Naglfar
I was super confused when I came across that original context for the word pegging, IIRC in something on Savage Love concerning “the lesbian equivalent of pegging” (meaning one woman penetrating another with a strap-on dildo), since from context, I’d always assumed pegging just meant penetrating someone with a strap-on dildo.
I guess it’s just not one of those words you’ll learn in English class, whatever the official definition is.
@Masse_mysteria
Yeah, I doubt many English classes teach the slang terms for somewhat uncommon sex acts.
@Naglfar
That’s probably for the best. I seem to remember a classmate of mine trying to teach me some sex-related slang. I can’t remember what they said, but I’m guessing they meant something like “getting head” but said it like it meant sex in general.
I ended up getting most of the sex terms from fanfiction.
If sex is nonessential work (or at least less important than generators), then incels can hardly argue that sex is a non-negotiable physical need like food or air.
I have a feeling, though, that MGTOWs still secretly think sex is essential. They just don’t want women being compensated in any way for it.
@Buttercup
Of course, the real question is that if sex was so essential to MGTOWs and incels and they really wanted to avoid paying for it, they could have sex with each other. Though I doubt they can tolerate even each other for long enough.
Thanks, Naglfar.
So I gather that, according to Savage, “pegging” should signify not just certain physical type of sexual play, but specifically such play in the social context of subverting the concept of cisheteronormative intercourse.
In the spirit of this purpose, it seems relevant that the penetration should be anal, in a practice that is iconic for providing a comparable (if not quite similar) substitute for vaginal penetration in (cis) men. If the penetrated partner does in fact have a vagina, that should not lessen the subversive effect of using the anus instead.
Likewise, the penetrating object should be a reasonably close substitute for the penis, but without actually involving one, in case the penetrating partner does in fact have a penis. Using a finger or hand would be organic (and thus directly involve the partner’s body), but a prosthetic penis is mechanically a closer susbstitute, especially since it can be mounted on the partner’s crotch. We should probably prescribe a fairly strictly defined configuration of a realistic dildo mounted approximately where a penis would be. Thus, pegging becomes physically strictly defined, paralleling penile-vaginal intercourse and parodying sexual normativity.
Notably (based on what I’ve heard), penile-anal intercourse can be very similar to penile-vaginal intercourse on the side of penile sensation, and conversely, dildo-vaginal can be very similar on the side of vaginal sensation. In dildo-anal intercourse, this similarity is more or less compromised for both actual partners, while the dildo and anus ironically unite in attempt to provide a fully realistic approximation of a penis and vagina for each other.
Ultimately, I don’t see a reason to limit the gender or genital anatomy of the partners involved in pegging. A cis man pegging a cis woman in abovementioned method would be (more) unusual and not subversive in the same way as a cis woman pegging a cis man, but it would be still definitely subversive, in a related way.
@Lumipuna
It seems that’s a part of it. Savage has said that he thinks all straight men should do it to get a perspective for what it feels like to be penetrated.
Another reason to do it could be prostate stimulation; cis men have prostate glands that can be stimulated this way (though there are more efficient ways).
Mass shooting in Nova Scotia. The killer was a rich white man, so it’ll be interesting to see if motive is ever covered in the media, or if we’re just never mentioning this crime again.
Man. The one silver lining of Covid-19 has been that there isn’t so many mass shootings anymore. But I’ve been fearing that mass violence would ramp back up again as people get increasingly stressed and see all sorts of online conspiracy theories about the virus.
@WWTH
I’m guessing the latter. At the very least if it’s brought up it will be with sympathetic quotes from his family or trying to blame mental illness.
I’m rather worried about armed uprisings on a large scale, seeing as there have been armed protests at statehouses and Trump is literally calling for civil war on Twitter. Unlikely it will be an issue where I live, but I worry for Ohio and Michigan and the other states with protests.
@Naglfar
Fortunately these chuds have typically got the logistical organization capacity of a glue-huffing mayfly, and any such effort would instantly founder because nobody remembered to bring any food or gas, just a buncha guns and bullets. See the Malheur Maladroits a few years back for an example.
I replaced the toilet tank at our house a few years ago. It was hard work and the filthiest job I’ve ever done.
I’d rather do it again than be paid to have sex with the men in the OP.
@Dalillama
The issue is, they’re backed by more powerful people, who might have better organization skills. For example, the DeVos organization.
@Dalillama:
What’s the betting that the various “reopen” protests are in fact centrally coordinated? Sure, the individuals you see protesting are not exactly impressive… but people said the same thing about the tea party, and look where that went.
@Moggie
I’m almost certain they are. Seeing as virtually everything conservatives accuse left-wing groups of turns out to be something that right-wingers are actually doing is projection, I’ll bet at least some of the protestors are paid.
Oh, yeah, the protests are definitely are being centrally coordinated. It’s the Tea Party all over again.
I’ve been expecting for a while that by 2040 or so they’d be needing to redraw the maps of North America, and that it would not turn out to be Quebec’s fault.
As of a week or so ago, I’m no longer the only one:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/14/1937064/-Trump-declares-himself-a-dictator-Blue-state-governors-organize-A-breakup-is-now-on-the-table
@Surplus
Doesn’t seem beyond reality. I’m fortunate to live in a blue state which is unlikely to be seeing as much direct conflict as some others, but this still sounds unpleasant.
I mostly worry about minority people stuck in red states. LGBTQIPA+, PoC, disabled people, etc who are stuck in red states. They will be in far more danger.
The worst part is, I think Trump might actually like this for a while (at least until he realizes what resources he’s lost).
@Naglfar
That’s why I specified logistics. Getting a few dozen, or even a few hundred, people to show up for a couple hours to shout and wave signs isn’t even in the same ballpark as running a military campaign. Here, we’re talking about people who had to cancel their DC rally because nobody actually gave the charter bus company a valid credit card number. That wasn’t the current round, it was a couple years back and I forget what they were supposedly protesting.
Yeah, I think we’re seeing the outlines of the successor states. There’s now a Midwestern pact around Michigan too.