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bad science dude you've got no fucking idea what you're talking about homophobia lgbt men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny reddit Uncategorized

Women are mean to gay men in order to keep their own men from going gay, confused Men’s Rights Redditor explains

Could you run that by me again?

By David Futrelle

Try to make head or tail of this one, folks!

anyone notice how gay men are treated by making fun of by women? Is it because they know men are much better partners and are afraid?Discrimination (self.MensRights)

submitted 13 days ago by kur955

In case you can’t quite parse the syntax here, Mr kur955 is asking his Men’s Rights colleagues whether they have noticed that women make fun of gay men a lot, and if this is because women know that men are better partners than women and are afraid that if men realize this they’ll all go gay.

He spells all this out a tiny bit more coherently in a comment, arguing that women want to make the “gay experience” look bad because
 

they know … that if hetero men turn to gay suddenly theyll run out of punching bags … because sexual desire will not stand in the way of making a truthful fair and from the outside world true to the internal world judgemental opinion

So ladies, fess up! Why are you using homophobia to keep men from going gay and deserting you?

If you say, “what are you talking about, that’s absurd and also that’s not how being gay works” I’ll know you’re part of the vast conspiracy.

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Huh. This is a new men’s rights problem I’ve never heard about before. Usually the stereotype is that women are big meanies for liking gay men better than straight men.

Maybe this dude is just hanging out with homophobes?

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
1 year ago

I wonder how this galaxy brain will explain why straight men make fun of/are mean to gay men?

No, wait, never mind, I don’t actually care.

Savanah Gray
Savanah Gray
1 year ago

Okay. Hold up. So women support gay rights as an overwhelming group. Almost globally! And the MGTOW guys are actually violent toward gay men. So now I’ve lost track of their ramblings. Are MGTOW guys cool with gay rights now? Or no? Can they just make up their micro-minds please?

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

The MRA attitude towards gay men generally seems to be using them as pawns in arguments when it is useful, but being extremely homophobic even then.

if hetero men turn to gay

Well, MRAs, if women are so awful why don’t you just turn yourselves gay, if that’s how it works? (it isn’t how it works)

Is it because they know men are much better partners and are afraid?

I’m sure there are good male partners in the world, but I can’t imagine many women pine for an MRA. I certainly don’t.

I can think of 1 or 2 gay MRAs that have been discussed here, and I can’t say they were much better than their straight counterparts. Like this one who rambled about how awful lesbians are. As with all the token members of hate groups, the gay MRAs seem to be very self-hating.

@Fishy Goat

I wonder how this galaxy brain will explain why straight men make fun of/are mean to gay men?

I somewhat wonder how MRAs would weasel out of that one. From what I’ve seen, I’ve seen a lot more straight men being homophobic than women, and the majority of anti-gay violence is carried out by straight men.

@Savannah Gray

Are MGTOW guys cool with gay rights now?

It seems like the MGTOW/MRA attitude towards gay men is that they will use them as shields when convenient but hate them anyway. So they only pretend to like gay men when they can use them to hate women, because manospherians hate women more.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Boy, the projection here has approximately the bolometric luminosity of VY Canis Majoris.

Let’s see how much they are projecting: their homophobia; their fear that women will all go gay and swear off men for good; their fear that women are better partners than they are … am I missing anything?

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/asia/china-coronavirus-research-restrictions-intl-hnk/index.html

Studies on the origin of the virus will receive extra scrutiny and must be approved by central government officials

<headdesk>

Don’t those idiots have any idea how bad that looks when there is a widespread conspiracy theory that the virus came out of a bioweapons lab?! I’ve seen better optics from some Trump administration policies!

Meanwhile I’m seeing rapid growth of two more virus conspiracy theories: a variant of “EM fields” woo (first it was power lines, then it was cell phones, and now apparently it’s 5G-somehow-causes-COVID-19) and a claim that death tolls (either in NY or worldwide) are being overcounted.

I wonder which will ultimately end up causing more damage: the virus or human stupidity? I’ve half a mind to dig up and reread Asimov’s The Gods Themselves but a) in present circumstances it would only depress me and b) Asimov turned out to be a creepy groper. Pah!

Meanwhile there’s nothing at all on television anymore. It’s like every station thinks it’s August: reruns and pink-slime filler across the dial, even in primetime, seven days a week. I don’t know what their managers are thinking: the coronavirus lockdowns seem like a golden opportunity to get “good-old-days” sized ratings if they’d only air some first-run material. Maybe they’re holding all of that back until May sweeps to try to maximize the bounty? Meanwhile we’re all (at least outside major metro areas with internet fast enough for streaming) hurting for entertainment though. More capitalist profit-over-the-needs-of-the-little-guy. <sigh>

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Surplus

now apparently it’s 5G-somehow-causes-COVID-19

In addition, TERFs have declared that 5G is causing people to become trans*. They also have shown their far-right side again by some of them suggesting that it’s a Jewish conspiracy.

Re: conspiracy theories
I’m surprised nobody is insisting that Hillary’s emails caused COVID-19.

Re: Television
My guess as to why they’re not broadcasting new material is that the programming schedule probably didn’t anticipate this virus and it’s hard to change now.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

I really hope the English is not the OP’s first language, because that post is nearly unintelligible.

Perry
Perry
1 year ago

Obviously women aren’t a monolith and many of them are homophobic (as is true of people in general), but it’s news to me that women as a group are uniquely demonstrated to target gay men.

If anything, in my experience straight men seem to be more a little more likely to harass gay men, usually on the basis of not living up to a standard of hegemonic masculinity. I think there is literature on this as well, but I need to check before making statements of fact.

Also, in any case I highly doubt any of these people are champions for queer rights, even excluding everyone but gay men.

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

I knew a guy who used to say things like this. He told me once that women are far more homophobic than men and it’s popular and accepted for women to beat up gay men who won’t date them.

It’s probably happened, but the idea that it’s popular and this is a thing that all women do is ridiculous.

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
1 year ago

I’ve had several coworkers and bosses who are gay. I prefer them to most “straight” bosses I’ve had. Never mind. Why am I even trying to reason with non-reason?

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

There is a germ of a truth here in that a good deal of the reason for the demonization and subsequent mocking of lgbt+ people is so that the expression of same will be discouraged- shame used as a weapon of societal control

I don’t know if this is legit or not, and it’s isn’t based in academic knowledge ( lord knows) but my presumption is that patriarchy is threatened by the idea of a male couple, as that meant a family unit more powerful; two men having more political power and property ownership potential than one man and one women, unless such a relationship is taboo

While a lesbian couple was even more threatening to a patriarchy for the obvious reasons, two women showing
That men don’t cause the earth to turn…. plus, a union of women represents a breakdown of the whole system.

As for trans, genderqueer, pansexuality, etc etc- the whole thing is blown out of the pool

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Fwd: Re: Fwd: Fwd: Sv: Fwd: VIRUS WARNING

Do not open the email found on Hillary’s secret server titled GOOD TIMES, it has a virus!!1!

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

@Surplus

Meanwhile I’m seeing rapid growth of two more virus conspiracy theories: a variant of “EM fields” woo (first it was power lines, then it was cell phones, and now apparently it’s 5G-somehow-causes-COVID-19) and a claim that death tolls (either in NY or worldwide) are being overcounted.

Oooo I can do you one better! I heard a conspiracy theory that 5G does not cause the virus, it is the virus! That is to say, Covid-19 viruses are the source of 5G RF EMF (not 5G masts), and they use it to communicate. The things that they communicate to each other are, invariably, who to pick next as a victim. Not on behalf of some shady group, but on behalf of the virus itself. Collectively, as a hive mind. 😀

Concerning the over-counted death tolls… huh? I hadn’t heard that one before, I only heard the one where China is lying through its teeth and approximately 1 billion people died there. How are both of these coexisting at once? … nevermind, it’s conspiracy theories, they don’t have to be logically consistent with each other to be believed. Forget I asked.

Not Edward
Not Edward
1 year ago

@Surplus
At a guess, a probable contribution to all the repeats on TV is the difficulty of producing any new content whilst in lockdown. They can still run the stuff they already recorded, but after that they are stuck.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 year ago

I seem to recall an MRA claiming that straight men have nothing against gay men and any straight-guy-on-gay-man harassment happens because women encourage it and are so impressed by it. Gotta love how everything is women’s fault!

@Yutolia

He told me once that women are far more homophobic than men and it’s popular and accepted for women to beat up gay men who won’t date them.

So… women are so homophobic that they want to date gay men so bad that they’ll assault gay men who won’t date them? Seems legit.

@Big Titty Demon

Concerning the over-counted death tolls… huh? I hadn’t heard that one before, I only heard the one where China is lying through its teeth and approximately 1 billion people died there. How are both of these coexisting at once?

Well if there’s global coordination for the death toll conspiracy, they could be taking China’s under-reported deaths and divvying them between other countries and hiking up their death tolls in the process. But I doubt that’s happening.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Big Titty Demon

China is lying through its teeth and approximately 1 billion people died there.

Wouldn’t that be most of the population of China? Ironically, the people who think billions are dying are probably the same ones who won’t social distance because they think it’s NBD. The cognitive dissonance must be extreme.

@Masse_mysteria

any straight-guy-on-gay-man harassment happens because women encourage it and are so impressed by it. Gotta love how everything is women’s fault!

Reminds me of how MRAs (including some female ones) think that men commit more crimes because women want them to.

Sheila Crosby
Sheila Crosby
1 year ago

OK, so in the stone age presumably it was a good survival strategy for OUR tribe to have more warriors than THEIR tribe, so producing babies was a Good Thing (TM) and defintely to be encouraged. Now that there are 7.8 billion of us on the planet and wars are more about technology than numbers of fighters, that no longer applies. No having babies by accident is a good thing.

You know how some people keep yelling that gay marriage is a threat to their marriages? They’re partly right. LGBT marriages are a threat to teh idea that marriage can only work with rigid, stiffling gender roles. Much like going outside and looking up is a threat to the idea that the sky is yellow.

@Surplus and anyone else bored, I’ll still give away free ebooks. There’s a PDF version that you can read on a laptop. Email crosby dot sheila at gmail dot com

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Sheila Crosby

You know how some people keep yelling that gay marriage is a threat to their marriages? They’re partly right. LGBT marriages are a threat to teh idea that marriage can only work with rigid, stiffling gender roles.

Of course, the overturning of strict roles is something that people should be thankful for. Strict gender roles are harmful to society and the people in it and limit individual potential.

My other response to people who say that LGBTQIPA+ marriage is a threat to their marriage is that if their institution of marriage is so weak that two people of the same gender in love can overthrow it just by existing, maybe it needed to change anyway.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

O/T, but Aella (the Z-list Internet celebrity who is pro-bestiality and hates trans* people) continues to post bigoted polls and threads like that which we’ve discussed before. Today is anti-autistic bigotry/eugenics, where she has posted this poll asking separately for autistic and allistic people whether they would like to eliminate autism.

Notably, the overwhelming majority of respondents are allistic people, and when I checked, most seem to want to eliminate autism. In the responses it’s a mix of allistic bigots (probably autism warrior parents™ by how they sound) talking condescendingly about how horrible “low functioning” autistic people are and how they should be eliminated, while various autistic people call out her eugenics stance.

ETA: She has also posted similar polls for ADHD and ADD, being gay, and being trans*, asking people whether we should eliminate those. Her bigotry truly knows no bounds.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 year ago

@Naglfar
All the awfulness aside, I always feel like people who are bigoted enough to call on genocide for all and sundry are taking a very big risk that some quality they have will one day warrant deletion. Maybe they’ll oppose it then?

They certainly can’t go down just to take one for the team. You’d need a consistent ideological stance to take it that far.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Masse_mysteria

All the awfulness aside, I always feel like people who are bigoted enough to call on genocide for all and sundry are taking a very big risk that some quality they have will one day warrant deletion. Maybe they’ll oppose it then?

She claims to be autistic but to not want autism to exist in the future, but says she doesn’t want to kill existing autistic people. So her comments suggest that either she’s very naïve (because most eugenicists want existing people killed as well) or self-hating.

All her polls are very carefully worded for plausible deniability, claiming that if the reader pushes the hypothetical button, no more people who are autistic/gay/trans*/etc will be born but existing people will be unchanged. I’m pretty sure most people see right through it, though. And her excuse each time anyone calls her out is that she was “just asking questions.”

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

@Masse_Mysteria: I know! I was totally dumbfounded when he said this. When I tried to argue against it, he accused me of thinking women couldn’t be homophobic at all. It was an exercise in black and white thinking.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

@Naglfar : a common thing among victim of discrimation is to say they are different but the stereotype is still true, so that they can participate in the hate program (to feel integrated and show their allegiance to the current order) but still justify their existence.

That seem a somewhat similar thing here : she want to participate in autism bashing and have found a convenient way to not include herself in it.

On the topic of removing some form of mental atypicity, that’s pretty hard. I mean, for some it’s basically a no-brainer (nothing good come from Creuzfelt-Jacob), but there’s a ton of somewhat grey case. Like being a psychopathe is often a Very Bad Thing, but there’s plenty of psychopathes who do nothing truly bad, and removing it basically mean transforming them into entirely new person, which feel like it’s quite amoral.

Of course, autism in general isn’t in consideration to being bad.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
1 year ago

@Naglfer

I saw that. I was so badly worded I voted wrong. I thought she was asking only autistic people, (1) if they would press a button to stop more autistic people being born and (2) if they would press a button to stop people ‘becoming’ autistic. I didn’t realise she was asking (1) are you autistic, (2) would you press a button to stop other autistic people being born.

I don’t know how to take back my vote and revote. It’s really upsetting because Oh, my gods, why would anyone want to stop us from existing, and I certainly don’t want to give support to people who think we shouldn’t exist.

I wonder how many other autistic people have read it and been confused by the way it’s been written? I doubt it’ll be a large percentage but I’m still concerned those who have will have given unwilling support to the eugenicists and how it’ll affect them when they realise.

I’m appalled that anyone would even ask if we should exist. I know that people like that exist, but I don’t understand it, and it’s usually at one remove, in academic papers that Ann Memmott is taking apart.

I’m upset about it. People are arseholes.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Ohlmann

a common thing among victim of discrimation is to say they are different but the stereotype is still true, so that they can participate in the hate program (to feel integrated and show their allegiance to the current order) but still justify their existence.

I’ve seen that in other groups as well, like with women like Bettina Arndt who agree with MRAs in promoting misogyny, or trans* people like Debbie Hayton who ally with TERFs and bash other trans* people.
I think another part is they feel they can “get ahead” by sucking up to those who have power over them and showing themselves to be “the good ones.” In Aella’s case, she is demonstrative of a lot of other bigotries as well, so I don’t really see her hatred of autistic people as very different from that.

@Nanny Oggs Bosom

I was so badly worded

I think the wording was intentional; I think Aella wanted to add plausible deniability and make it harder to tell exactly how bigoted she is in her polls (seeing as this wasn’t the only poll worded this way, she has very similarly worded polls on ADHD, being gay, and being trans*).

I don’t know how to take back my vote and revote.

It’s not a huge deal, I don’t think her polls actually do anything other than let her put out bad takes. Accidentally voting the wrong way probably doesn’t make any difference, so don’t stress over it.

Oh, my gods, why would anyone want to stop us from existing

People will find all kinds of ways to hate people who aren’t like them. Our minds work differently than many other people’s, and some of us struggle with things they find easy, so they hate us.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

Homophobia by straight men is, of course, just one aspect of toxic masculinity. Speaking of which, here’s that effeminate, beta male simp Dwayne Johnson stooping to women’s work by teaching his daughter to wash her hands (warning: ADORABLE):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEPUpdgRYL4

If only he could be as alpha as true manly men like Roosh V.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Allandrel

If only he could be as alpha as true manly men like Roosh V.

If only he had a bread machine…

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

Conspiracist: (outlines conspiracy fantasy)

Me: “… or, not”

Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

@Naglfar

One day he may aspire to being a bread scientist. /sarcasm

Seriously, though, Dwayne Johnson strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn’t mind learning how to cook, either for himself, for his partner, or for his children.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Victorious Parasol

Seriously, though, Dwayne Johnson strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn’t mind learning how to cook, either for himself, for his partner, or for his children.

Well, his catchphrase was/is “if you smell what I’m cooking,” so it would follow that he’d be able to cook.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
1 year ago

Oooo I can do you one better! I heard a conspiracy theory that 5G does not cause the virus, it is the virus! That is to say, Covid-19 viruses are the source of 5G RF EMF (not 5G masts), and they use it to communicate. The things that they communicate to each other are, invariably, who to pick next as a victim. Not on behalf of some shady group, but on behalf of the virus itself. Collectively, as a hive mind.

2010: Virus attacks your internet cell phone

2020: Internet phone virus attacks your cells

epitome of incomprehensibility

When I was a kid/teenager, I remember both boys and girls would make fun of people for being gay. I can’t say who did it more. But it was more common for boys to use “gay” indirectly as a negative quality (e.g. calling clothing/activities etc. “gay”). That seems less common now, thankfully.

In the class I’m taking, this kind of thing is called “indexing”* and we were using it to talk about gendered language – there’s evidence that using words like “mailman” will lead kids to think that mail deliverers are automatically male.

“Indexing” was also mentioned in an article by Lal Zimman on trans* self-identification: he wrote about how 3rd-person pronouns are so powerful because they’re presupposed indexes:

While a statement like “that person is a woman” can be a matter of dispute (e.g. “no, that person is a man”), disputing a statement like “I spoke with her” (e.g. “no you didn’t”) would be interpreted with respect whether the speaker spoke to the person in question, not to whether that person should be referred to as “her” to begin with (Livia 2000).

(Zimman p. 155)

*In philosophy, according to my boyfriend, “indexing” is when one thing is the direct physical outcome of another thing that it represents, e.g. smoke indexing fire. In sociolinguistics the connection is more symbolic but still has practical outcomes.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ epitome of incomprehensibility

smoke indexing fire. In sociolinguistics…

Now you’ve really got me overthinking the whole “There’s no smoke without fire” cliche!

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

@epitome:

Hehe, I just had to tell Lal that you posted his stuff. We went to grad school together.

Podkayne Lives
Podkayne Lives
1 year ago

I once had a very weird conversation with a guy who used to comment on a blog I also commented on…he really wanted me to understand that gay men only pretended to like women (socially), and that as soon as I turned my back, the gay men I might think were my friends were using terrible language about me and talking about how horrible women were.

I finally said something to the effect that if they’d learned to say it behind women’s backs, they were doing better than many straight men of my acquaintance, and tried to drop it. He couldn’t let it go. This was the TRUTH, and apparently I’d turn into a normal homophobe if he could get this through to me.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

@epitome : gender in name do have a pretty big effect. To take a lighter example, I alway see hydras as female (and laying eggs and all) by default, because the french word for hydra is feminine.

(there’s no neutral in France, so everything have a gender. For example, cars are feminine, bread is masculine, computers are masculine, and, most amusingly, almost all slang designing the male sex are feminine)

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

A follow up on yesterday’s incident with Aella: she has now decided to start a private Twitter “with less filter.” So I’m guessing she’s going to use it to talk amongst her friends about how awful LGBTQIPA+ and autistic people are without even trying to veil her premise.

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

It made me so mad when Aella pulled the whole “I’m autistic!” bullshit when confronted with her bigotry. No, sorry, being ‘autistic’ is not an excuse to harm other autistic or otherwise neurodiverse people.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Yutolia
I’ve seen a lot of people do that in varying communities. The script is always something like “But I’m autistic/ADHD/gay/trans*/etc and I wouldn’t want future people to be like me.” I think it stems from self-hatred, but also from trying to fit in with bigots by appearing to be one of the “good ones.”
In Aella’s case, she went off that script a bit by managing to throw in some extra ableism, when she said that she only wanted “low functioning” autistic people to not exist. And compared autism to having cluster headaches.

Then a few hours later said something about how she didn’t think eugenics would elicit a “knee-jerk” reaction from the people it targets.

In a few hours we will see the final results of all her polls. My guess is that all of them will have results similar to her trans* poll, which finished earlier: about 90% of respondents were cis and of those, the overwhelming majority wanted no more trans* people. There’s definitely a selection bias, but the truth of the matter is that it rarely ends well for minorities to have the majority decide whether to eliminate them.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 year ago

@epitome
Thanks for the link! I’m always low-key interested in pronouns stuff, not least because Finnish doesn’t have gendered pronouns so I like to read up on them.

(IIRC some studies have shown that even though the pronoun hän is not gendered, people are more likely to assume the antecedent is male if the sentence gives no gender cues. Also some people have been hankering for gendered pronouns ever since written Finnish as we know it was created, so even though I enjoy the current situation, it could be better.)

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 year ago

@Ohlmann:
Of course, in German there IS a neuter gender in language. All ‘diminutives’ (words ending in -chen or -lein) are neuter as a general case, which leads to the situation where the words for a young girl (Mädchen) or young woman (Fraulein) are neuter. A boy is just ‘Junge’ which is basically ‘Youth’.

(I have long said that I learned more about the English language from my German class than I ever did from my English classes. I’m a native English speaker, but learning French and German put it into context.)

With regards to conspiracy theories, I was noting elsewhere that I think a lot of it comes down to:

5G == something new that I can’t see that still affects me == magic
Covid-19 == something new that I can’t see that still affects me == magic
Basically it’s ‘these are both scary new things that I can’t do anything about that came up at the same time, so they must be related’, and then add the grifters who love stirring up panic so they can sell their EM shields and the like.

The fact that both of these came from China as far as most people are concerned (I know I first heard about a lot of 5G stuff in reference to Huawei) adds another racist angle as well.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Jenora Feuer

I have long said that I learned more about the English language from my German class than I ever did from my English classes. I’m a native English speaker, but learning French and German put it into context.

I don’t speak German, but in the same vein, learning Spanish made me understand a lot more about grammar and parts of speech in English and other languages than I ever did before.

5G == something new that I can’t see that still affects me == magic

Well, that’s one way to use Clarke’s first law.

epitome of incomprehensibility

Hehe, I just had to tell Lal that you posted his stuff. We went to grad school together.

@Yutolia – Oh, cool! I found the essay really good.

And the language was precise yet accessible. Some of the stuff I’m reading for the class is…not. Like here: “This triangulation of linguistic activity, semiotic codes, and indexicality needs to be complexified…”

Me: “YOU’RE complexified!” 😛

@Masse_Mysteria – I didn’t know that about Finnish! (Though probably someone mentioned it here and I forgot.) Farsi (Persian) and Twi (a language in Ghana) also don’t have gendered pronouns.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 year ago

@Naglfar:
I’m kind of a linguistic dilettante. I only really speak one language, but can mostly read French (I live in Canada, it’s useful) and know enough of bits of things like German and Latin to pick out structures and roots. All of which comes in surprisingly handy at times, like realizing when I was down in Brazil on business that I could actually figure out the warning signs in Portuguese, because both French and Portuguese are essentially provincial dialects of Latin and thus the core root words overlap a LOT even if the spelling and inflections are different.

As for ‘== magic’, the webcomic Freefall actually had a take on that a long while back:
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff300/fv00255.gif
(Florence Ambrose being the name of the character there.)

It can be a lot easier to convince people of things if they don’t actually know enough basic science to understand why what they’re being told is quite fundamentally impossible. To most people even an old-school analogue television is magic, never mind that it’s pretty much just an oscilloscope with finely tuned sweep frequencies.

Most people just seem to have so given up on understanding the world that:
A) they have no way of telling whether any given explanation makes sense, and,
B) they can be desperate enough for anything that SEEMS to make things understandable that they’ll latch on to the first explanation they find.

As I’ve said before, the last seems to explain a lot of conspiracy theories: some people are happier with the idea that there’s someone in control who hates them than they are with the idea that sometimes things happen for no reason and there’s nobody actually running things.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Jenora Feuer

like realizing when I was down in Brazil on business that I could actually figure out the warning signs in Portuguese, because both French and Portuguese are essentially provincial dialects of Latin and thus the core root words overlap a LOT even if the spelling and inflections are different.

I had a similar thing happen when I was in the Azores a few years back. I don’t speak Portuguese at all, but was mostly able to decipher it in written form for the reason you described.

Most people just seem to have so given up on understanding the world that:
A) they have no way of telling whether any given explanation makes sense, and,
B) they can be desperate enough for anything that SEEMS to make things understandable that they’ll latch on to the first explanation they find.

This is a viewpoint that is pretty much the opposite of mine. As long as I can remember, I’ve always wanted to understand exactly how things work, even if it’s complex or requires a lot of learning. I think it’s part of being autistic, but I’m not sure, I just know it’s part of my personality.

some people are happier with the idea that there’s someone in control who hates them than they are with the idea that sometimes things happen for no reason and there’s nobody actually running things.

I am reminded of the title text of xkcd 1081:
“Really, the comforting side in most conspiracy theory arguments is the one claiming that anyone who’s in power has any plan at all.”

Speaking of autism, the final result of Aella’s bigoted eugenics poll is in. Somewhat reassuring that the majority of allistic voters decided not to eradicate autism, but still alarming how many did want to. And the premise of the poll is still ableist and awful.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
1 year ago

@Jenora

I’m a slight linguistic dilettante too. I can only speak English, but bouncing from learning French at school, picking up a bit of latin when I went through a ‘fascinated by the Romans’ phase, same with Old English during my fascinated by the Dark Ages phase, trying to learn German, relearn French, my dad randomly speaking Spanish because he learnt for his holidays, my uncle randomly bursting into Dutch or German because he worked in the Netherlands and currently works in Hamburg, I’ve managed to pick up enough learning to sort of read German, Dutch, French, Italian, and Spanish, because of shared roots. Can’t speak or write any of them. Which was a pain when I went to Paris in 2016. At one point I ended up saying Ja instead of Oui.

I really want to focus on linguistics more, but there are so many other things I need to learn. Can I live forever and learn all the things?

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 year ago

@epitome
I’m always the Finn telling people online that Finnish doesn’t have gendered pronouns. Then I feel bad because they may get overly excited (“Must be so easy being nonbinary!”), when in real life there are Finns who wonder why we don’t have gendered pronouns when “all the other languages” have them, and then you’re stuck trying to explain to them that not all languages have pronouns, let alone gendered ones.

Might be easier if I actually knew languages. It’s cool to sometimes utilise Swedish for understanding its near relatives (at least in writing), and I mostly coasted through a French course’s reading comprehension bits by guessing through English. I’m starting to feel I’m too lazy for languages.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Masse_mysteria

not all languages have pronouns

I imagine it would be somewhat hard to use language without pronouns. Which is part of why I find it a little bit funny when transphobes insist that cis people don’t have pronouns. I’ve seriously seen so many transphobes insist that only trans* people use pronouns, often while using pronouns in the same sentence (sentences like “I have no need for a pronoun”).

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Naglfar

I imagine it would be somewhat hard to use language without pronouns.

There are several classes of pronouns, and no language lacks all of them, but e.g. in Japanese the words used for “I/me” literally translate as “this person” or “this servant”, depending on formality and status relationships.