By David Futrelle
Try to make head or tail of this one, folks!
In case you can’t quite parse the syntax here, Mr kur955 is asking his Men’s Rights colleagues whether they have noticed that women make fun of gay men a lot, and if this is because women know that men are better partners than women and are afraid that if men realize this they’ll all go gay.
He spells all this out a tiny bit more coherently in a comment, arguing that women want to make the “gay experience” look bad because
they know … that if hetero men turn to gay suddenly theyll run out of punching bags … because sexual desire will not stand in the way of making a truthful fair and from the outside world true to the internal world judgemental opinion
So ladies, fess up! Why are you using homophobia to keep men from going gay and deserting you?
If you say, “what are you talking about, that’s absurd and also that’s not how being gay works” I’ll know you’re part of the vast conspiracy.
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Huh. This is a new men’s rights problem I’ve never heard about before. Usually the stereotype is that women are big meanies for liking gay men better than straight men.
Maybe this dude is just hanging out with homophobes?
I wonder how this galaxy brain will explain why straight men make fun of/are mean to gay men?
No, wait, never mind, I don’t actually care.
Okay. Hold up. So women support gay rights as an overwhelming group. Almost globally! And the MGTOW guys are actually violent toward gay men. So now I’ve lost track of their ramblings. Are MGTOW guys cool with gay rights now? Or no? Can they just make up their micro-minds please?
The MRA attitude towards gay men generally seems to be using them as pawns in arguments when it is useful, but being extremely homophobic even then.
Well, MRAs, if women are so awful why don’t you just turn yourselves gay, if that’s how it works? (it isn’t how it works)
I’m sure there are good male partners in the world, but I can’t imagine many women pine for an MRA. I certainly don’t.
I can think of 1 or 2 gay MRAs that have been discussed here, and I can’t say they were much better than their straight counterparts. Like this one who rambled about how awful lesbians are. As with all the token members of hate groups, the gay MRAs seem to be very self-hating.
@Fishy Goat
I somewhat wonder how MRAs would weasel out of that one. From what I’ve seen, I’ve seen a lot more straight men being homophobic than women, and the majority of anti-gay violence is carried out by straight men.
@Savannah Gray
It seems like the MGTOW/MRA attitude towards gay men is that they will use them as shields when convenient but hate them anyway. So they only pretend to like gay men when they can use them to hate women, because manospherians hate women more.
Boy, the projection here has approximately the bolometric luminosity of VY Canis Majoris.
Let’s see how much they are projecting: their homophobia; their fear that women will all go gay and swear off men for good; their fear that women are better partners than they are … am I missing anything?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/asia/china-coronavirus-research-restrictions-intl-hnk/index.html
<headdesk>
Don’t those idiots have any idea how bad that looks when there is a widespread conspiracy theory that the virus came out of a bioweapons lab?! I’ve seen better optics from some Trump administration policies!
Meanwhile I’m seeing rapid growth of two more virus conspiracy theories: a variant of “EM fields” woo (first it was power lines, then it was cell phones, and now apparently it’s 5G-somehow-causes-COVID-19) and a claim that death tolls (either in NY or worldwide) are being overcounted.
I wonder which will ultimately end up causing more damage: the virus or human stupidity? I’ve half a mind to dig up and reread Asimov’s The Gods Themselves but a) in present circumstances it would only depress me and b) Asimov turned out to be a creepy groper. Pah!
Meanwhile there’s nothing at all on television anymore. It’s like every station thinks it’s August: reruns and pink-slime filler across the dial, even in primetime, seven days a week. I don’t know what their managers are thinking: the coronavirus lockdowns seem like a golden opportunity to get “good-old-days” sized ratings if they’d only air some first-run material. Maybe they’re holding all of that back until May sweeps to try to maximize the bounty? Meanwhile we’re all (at least outside major metro areas with internet fast enough for streaming) hurting for entertainment though. More capitalist profit-over-the-needs-of-the-little-guy. <sigh>
@Surplus
In addition, TERFs have declared that 5G is causing people to become trans*. They also have shown their far-right side again by some of them suggesting that it’s a Jewish conspiracy.
Re: conspiracy theories
I’m surprised nobody is insisting that Hillary’s emails caused COVID-19.
Re: Television
My guess as to why they’re not broadcasting new material is that the programming schedule probably didn’t anticipate this virus and it’s hard to change now.
I really hope the English is not the OP’s first language, because that post is nearly unintelligible.
Obviously women aren’t a monolith and many of them are homophobic (as is true of people in general), but it’s news to me that women as a group are uniquely demonstrated to target gay men.
If anything, in my experience straight men seem to be more a little more likely to harass gay men, usually on the basis of not living up to a standard of hegemonic masculinity. I think there is literature on this as well, but I need to check before making statements of fact.
Also, in any case I highly doubt any of these people are champions for queer rights, even excluding everyone but gay men.
I knew a guy who used to say things like this. He told me once that women are far more homophobic than men and it’s popular and accepted for women to beat up gay men who won’t date them.
It’s probably happened, but the idea that it’s popular and this is a thing that all women do is ridiculous.
I’ve had several coworkers and bosses who are gay. I prefer them to most “straight” bosses I’ve had. Never mind. Why am I even trying to reason with non-reason?
There is a germ of a truth here in that a good deal of the reason for the demonization and subsequent mocking of lgbt+ people is so that the expression of same will be discouraged- shame used as a weapon of societal control
I don’t know if this is legit or not, and it’s isn’t based in academic knowledge ( lord knows) but my presumption is that patriarchy is threatened by the idea of a male couple, as that meant a family unit more powerful; two men having more political power and property ownership potential than one man and one women, unless such a relationship is taboo
While a lesbian couple was even more threatening to a patriarchy for the obvious reasons, two women showing
That men don’t cause the earth to turn…. plus, a union of women represents a breakdown of the whole system.
As for trans, genderqueer, pansexuality, etc etc- the whole thing is blown out of the pool
Fwd: Re: Fwd: Fwd: Sv: Fwd: VIRUS WARNING
Do not open the email found on Hillary’s secret server titled GOOD TIMES, it has a virus!!1!
@Surplus
Oooo I can do you one better! I heard a conspiracy theory that 5G does not cause the virus, it is the virus! That is to say, Covid-19 viruses are the source of 5G RF EMF (not 5G masts), and they use it to communicate. The things that they communicate to each other are, invariably, who to pick next as a victim. Not on behalf of some shady group, but on behalf of the virus itself. Collectively, as a hive mind. 😀
Concerning the over-counted death tolls… huh? I hadn’t heard that one before, I only heard the one where China is lying through its teeth and approximately 1 billion people died there. How are both of these coexisting at once? … nevermind, it’s conspiracy theories, they don’t have to be logically consistent with each other to be believed. Forget I asked.
@Surplus
At a guess, a probable contribution to all the repeats on TV is the difficulty of producing any new content whilst in lockdown. They can still run the stuff they already recorded, but after that they are stuck.
I seem to recall an MRA claiming that straight men have nothing against gay men and any straight-guy-on-gay-man harassment happens because women encourage it and are so impressed by it. Gotta love how everything is women’s fault!
@Yutolia
So… women are so homophobic that they want to date gay men so bad that they’ll assault gay men who won’t date them? Seems legit.
@Big Titty Demon
Well if there’s global coordination for the death toll conspiracy, they could be taking China’s under-reported deaths and divvying them between other countries and hiking up their death tolls in the process. But I doubt that’s happening.
@Big Titty Demon
Wouldn’t that be most of the population of China? Ironically, the people who think billions are dying are probably the same ones who won’t social distance because they think it’s NBD. The cognitive dissonance must be extreme.
@Masse_mysteria
Reminds me of how MRAs (including some female ones) think that men commit more crimes because women want them to.
OK, so in the stone age presumably it was a good survival strategy for OUR tribe to have more warriors than THEIR tribe, so producing babies was a Good Thing (TM) and defintely to be encouraged. Now that there are 7.8 billion of us on the planet and wars are more about technology than numbers of fighters, that no longer applies. No having babies by accident is a good thing.
You know how some people keep yelling that gay marriage is a threat to their marriages? They’re partly right. LGBT marriages are a threat to teh idea that marriage can only work with rigid, stiffling gender roles. Much like going outside and looking up is a threat to the idea that the sky is yellow.
@Surplus and anyone else bored, I’ll still give away free ebooks. There’s a PDF version that you can read on a laptop. Email crosby dot sheila at gmail dot com
@Sheila Crosby
Of course, the overturning of strict roles is something that people should be thankful for. Strict gender roles are harmful to society and the people in it and limit individual potential.
My other response to people who say that LGBTQIPA+ marriage is a threat to their marriage is that if their institution of marriage is so weak that two people of the same gender in love can overthrow it just by existing, maybe it needed to change anyway.
O/T, but Aella (the Z-list Internet celebrity who is pro-bestiality and hates trans* people) continues to post bigoted polls and threads like that which we’ve discussed before. Today is anti-autistic bigotry/eugenics, where she has posted this poll asking separately for autistic and allistic people whether they would like to eliminate autism.
Notably, the overwhelming majority of respondents are allistic people, and when I checked, most seem to want to eliminate autism. In the responses it’s a mix of allistic bigots (probably autism warrior parents™ by how they sound) talking condescendingly about how horrible “low functioning” autistic people are and how they should be eliminated, while various autistic people call out her eugenics stance.
ETA: She has also posted similar polls for ADHD and ADD, being gay, and being trans*, asking people whether we should eliminate those. Her bigotry truly knows no bounds.
@Naglfar
All the awfulness aside, I always feel like people who are bigoted enough to call on genocide for all and sundry are taking a very big risk that some quality they have will one day warrant deletion. Maybe they’ll oppose it then?
They certainly can’t go down just to take one for the team. You’d need a consistent ideological stance to take it that far.
@Masse_mysteria
She claims to be autistic but to not want autism to exist in the future, but says she doesn’t want to kill existing autistic people. So her comments suggest that either she’s very naïve (because most eugenicists want existing people killed as well) or self-hating.
All her polls are very carefully worded for plausible deniability, claiming that if the reader pushes the hypothetical button, no more people who are autistic/gay/trans*/etc will be born but existing people will be unchanged. I’m pretty sure most people see right through it, though. And her excuse each time anyone calls her out is that she was “just asking questions.”
@Masse_Mysteria: I know! I was totally dumbfounded when he said this. When I tried to argue against it, he accused me of thinking women couldn’t be homophobic at all. It was an exercise in black and white thinking.
@Naglfar : a common thing among victim of discrimation is to say they are different but the stereotype is still true, so that they can participate in the hate program (to feel integrated and show their allegiance to the current order) but still justify their existence.
That seem a somewhat similar thing here : she want to participate in autism bashing and have found a convenient way to not include herself in it.
On the topic of removing some form of mental atypicity, that’s pretty hard. I mean, for some it’s basically a no-brainer (nothing good come from Creuzfelt-Jacob), but there’s a ton of somewhat grey case. Like being a psychopathe is often a Very Bad Thing, but there’s plenty of psychopathes who do nothing truly bad, and removing it basically mean transforming them into entirely new person, which feel like it’s quite amoral.
Of course, autism in general isn’t in consideration to being bad.
@Naglfer
I saw that. I was so badly worded I voted wrong. I thought she was asking only autistic people, (1) if they would press a button to stop more autistic people being born and (2) if they would press a button to stop people ‘becoming’ autistic. I didn’t realise she was asking (1) are you autistic, (2) would you press a button to stop other autistic people being born.
I don’t know how to take back my vote and revote. It’s really upsetting because Oh, my gods, why would anyone want to stop us from existing, and I certainly don’t want to give support to people who think we shouldn’t exist.
I wonder how many other autistic people have read it and been confused by the way it’s been written? I doubt it’ll be a large percentage but I’m still concerned those who have will have given unwilling support to the eugenicists and how it’ll affect them when they realise.
I’m appalled that anyone would even ask if we should exist. I know that people like that exist, but I don’t understand it, and it’s usually at one remove, in academic papers that Ann Memmott is taking apart.
I’m upset about it. People are arseholes.