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A coalition of assholes celebrated #TransDayOfVisibility by yelling at trans people and their allies online

Graham Linehan, poking his nose in as usual

By David Futrelle

Tuesday was the annual Trans Day of Visibility and, as expected, the transphobes were out in force online, spewing venom and pestering any trans people they could find. Do they ever take a day off?

Some of them invaded the #TransDayOfVisibility hashtag on Twitter with their, er, thoughts on the matter. Their tweets ranged from slur-filled vitriol …

Dirty Revolver Man
@Nuclear_Aussie
·
2h
#TransDayOfVisibility is a way for faggots and mentally ill transgender cunts to hypnotise todays world with degeneracy and acceptance of a mental illness. Fucking disgusting

… to failed attempts at compassion.

SurlyNYConservative
@SurlyNYCon
You're all mentally ill and need help. I feel bad for you. With all the other troubles of day to day life, you don't feel like your genitals are correct? Awful. Stop mutilating yourselves. Find out what's really bothering you. I want you to feel better. #TransDayOfVisibility

The transphobes were quick to pile on any company or organization that put out a statement of support on Twitter. When Amnesty International UK tweeted “Trans rights = human rights” (repeating the phrase six times for emphasis), it was bombarded with hundreds of tweets from a veritable army of bigots, among them former-comedy-writer-turned-full-time-transphobe Graham Linehan, who thought he could outwit the human rights experts at Amnesty with this question:

Graham Linehan
@Glinner
Replying to 
@AmnestyUK
What rights do trans people not have?

Other commenters offered their own version of Linehan’s question or came up with equally uninspired (and sometimes incoherent) put-downs of their own:

K Flynnx Wash Your Hands 🖐
@k_flynny1234
·
6h
Replying to 
@AmnestyUK
Hint and ignoring the decades women have toiled to gain equal and fair rights.  We are not anti trans. We are anti men exploiting any opportunity to undermine women. We can’t afford to be kind.
SwirlsWorks Props
@SwirlsWorks
·
16h
Replying to 
@AmnestyUK
Why make a distinction if there is no difference? Sounds like you're fishing for MORE rights.
Happy Monkey
@HappyMo89069636
·
6h
Replying to 
@AmnestyUK
Amnesty has destroyed its brand.  I predict it will not survive the trans fad.  It’s a shame  because Amnesty did some good work and I used to support them.
TooMuchMorgans
@ToomuchMorgans
·
6h
Replying to 
@AmnestyUK
Trans rights= men's rights
Trans rights= men's rights
Trans rights= men's rights
Trans rights= men's rights
Trans rights= men's rights
Daniel
@DanielASheff
·
11h
Replying to 
@AmnestyUK
 and 
@Frankie_Phraser
Trans rights = men's rights
LUFCGTI
@lufcgti
·
12h
Replying to 
@AmnestyUK
 and 
@theAliceRoberts
trans women = men
Mitch Flag of EnglandFlag of United KingdomFlag of United StatesFlag of CanadaFlag of AustraliaFlag of New Zealand
@MitchTClark
·
15h
Replying to 
@AmnestyUK
The only rights that matter are property rights, and any other made up 'right' is simply an infringement on the liberty of others.

Even the Merseyside Police — yes, a local police department in Northwest England — found themselves swarmed by transphobes after tweeting that they were “proudly flying our trans flag at Merseyside Police HQ.”

plying to 
@MerPolCEU
 and 
@MerseyPolice
The only "hate crimes" taking place are by the unfettered zealots of the trans activist movement that wish to police language for the sake of their own egos. And if the rest of us do not abide, the rest of us can be arbitrarily criminalised. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Country Boy
@poynton_j
·
16h
Replying to 
@MerPolCEU
 and 
@MerseyPolice
Transgender has also mutated into a war on women. And you cling to that? Shame on you.
Mark
@NotWokeButLeft
·
6h
Replying to 
@FabFitzy
 
@StoatlyL
 and 2 others
When the suffrogets went on hunger strike the authorities, knowing it would do them harm, force fed them. These women  prevailed and not only won the right to vote here, the rest of the western world followed. Dont try and take their voice away again with 1 sided arguments
LynneKeys
@LynneKeys3
·
11h
Replying to 
@MerPolCEU
 and 
@MerseyPolice
Did you fly a women's flag on International Women's Day or one for Mother's Day? Thought not. Only blokes get to have a flag and choose when to fly them.
JS
@JS60395957
·
6h
Replying to 
@MerPolCEU
 and 
@MerseyPolice
Please explain why we should be celebrating adult males with a sexual fetish fed by being validated as a woman, male cross dressers (full time, part time, occassional) & males who say they are women & make no changes.

All retain male pattern violence and male sexuality.

One inventive transphobic Twitterer attempted to inspire other transphobes to pester trans people and allies with a strategy that seemed likely to puzzle a lot of its intended trans targets; it only makes sense if you’re a transphobe to begin with and think that only cis women are “real” women.

Women Make Glasgow Flag of Scotland
@GlasgowMake
Warning signWarning signWarning signCAMPAIGNINGWarning signWarning signWarning sign
31st of March is Transgender Visibility Day. 
Women make sure you make your voices heard. 
EVERY SINGLE TIME you see a post ask "what about women? Don't you care about women?"

While the tweet got quite a few likes and retweets, I can happily report it doesn’t seem to have inspired much of a pestering campaign; I only found a small handful of tweets asking either of these questions to trans people and their allies.

I hope your Trans Day of Visibility went better for you than it seems to have gone for these sad people.

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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varalys the dark
6 months ago

I have no idea, been a good couple of decades since I was last in a nightclub. Considering butch/femme was a thing even back then, I have no idea why it was a thing back then either. And I am no femme. Just confusing I guess.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

No diagnosis, just that I was looking into related topics, came across that, and parts of it seemed very … resonant.

On the other hand I do feel a desire for more connection with people … though I don’t seem capable to do much, on multiple levels. (Meeting new people seems impossible without spending a fair bit of money, which I can’t afford; when I do, I don’t seem to relate well to them; I don’t seem to be able to get the hang of “small talk”; if there’s more than one other person I often seem to get pushed to the periphery; etc.)

I also don’t seem to grieve normally, nor be able to maintain relationships very well.

It’s certainly a suspicion when parts of that seem to fit and it says elsewhere that over a quarter of aspies come down with it …

The really disturbing part, of course, is where it says the prognosis is poor. I have often felt “on the outside, looking in”, and some of the times would have preferred not to be. I’ve also often felt as if my life is some stunted and gnarled imitation of a normal one, like some tree at the edge of a wood that didn’t get enough of some nutrient or something. If there is little hope of those things changing …

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
6 months ago

@Allandrel:

On the “smart idiot” phenomenon, there seems to be a variant of the Dunning-Kruger Effect where someone IS an expert in a field… and therefore believes themselves an expert in all fields, because obviously everything else works just like their area of expertise.

I know PZ Myers over at Pharyngula has complained about physicists trying to do biology multiple times. There’s a lot of ‘why yes, that is an obvious an interesting idea; that’s why we tried it over a hundred years ago before finding out it didn’t actually work’. A lot of ‘very smart’ people seem to have a blind spot about realizing that there are people in other fields who are also very smart, and that anything ‘obvious’ to a non-expert was probably obvious to the experts already.

In the category of ‘there’s an xkcd for everything’:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/engineer_syllogism.png

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Jenora Feuer

There’s a lot of ‘why yes, that is an obvious an interesting idea; that’s why we tried it over a hundred years ago before finding out it didn’t actually work’.

Another relevant xkcd for that sentence would be this one:
comment image
This even happens outside of science. I can’t count how many times I’ve been trying to fix something or solve a real-world issue I’ve been having, then I tell someone else and they suggest an obvious idea that doesn’t work.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
6 months ago

@Naglfar:
Ahh, yes, I remember that one now; I just wasn’t sure of the search terms to look for it.

Sometimes the crackpot ideas come in that are self-defeating. Back when I used to work for a company that did work in space science of various sorts (my group was involved with radio astronomy) one of our members kept getting crackpot theories faxed to him. I picked one up at one point, and noticed that it made some comment about the speed of light not actually being constant, but being the geometric mean of the speeds of all the tachyons in the area.

My reaction was pretty much “… WTF? … By definition tachyons (if they even exist) can only go faster than the speed of light, so it is mathematically impossible for the mean of their speed to be the speed of light.”

In my current job, I do enough tech support to be very familiar with the person who insists he knows what is going on purely from an outside view, and ignores my internal knowledge of how the system actually works. It’s just another case of that human capability to see patterns, even when the pattern in question doesn’t actually exist.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Jenora Feuer
I’m not a physicist, but my response would equally be WTF. I would think most people even without physics education would know that the speed of light in a vacuum is constant and not variable (despite what creationists think).

I do enough tech support to be very familiar with the person who insists he knows what is going on purely from an outside view, and ignores my internal knowledge of how the system actually works.

There are a lot of men who think that way. Like that fellow last year who tried to explain gynecological anatomy to Dr. Jen Gunter and insisted he was right even after multiple doctors and the dictionary chimed in to tell him he wasn’t.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
6 months ago

@Naglfar:
Yes, so far our only ability to mess with the speed of light is to mess with exactly what constitutes a vacuum. (It’s actually possible using the proper equipment to produce a space with an energy state lower than a vacuum, which then has a higher speed of light… but only within the equipment, and the greater an effect you want to have, the smaller the space has to be. It’s part of the Casimir Effect.)

And I remember that particular incident, yes. There were a lot of people around the net who kind of went WTF over that.

Later last year, Dr. Gunter ended up doing a short online documentary series for the CBC called ‘Jensplaining’ which was her own gynecological version of Mythbusters.

Podkayne Lives
Podkayne Lives
6 months ago

I simply did not know TERFs were a thing until I was in my late 30s. I mean, I knew jack about trans women, but I was aware there were people who had sex change operations and ‘became women’, and I assumed this was OK with feminists because, why wouldn’t it be?

Discovering the TERFs was a nasty shock.

Snowberry
Snowberry
6 months ago

@Podkayne Lives: I hadn’t heard of them until I was 40, and not on this site (back then, it wasn’t covering TERFs yet, I don’t think) and my posted response on that site was “What’s a TERF? (Does some quick research) [Ragequits humanity]”. I wasn’t ever directly involved in feminist circles, just non-heteronormative sex-positive ones. I was aware that there existed schools of thought on gender which weren’t very trans-friendly, but I thought that they had become defunct by the late 80s or earlier… not gone underground¹, combined and metastasized into something outright toxic, and later resurfaced.

Though the “Radical Feminist” part of the TERF movement does seem to be dying out, as they’re much better at recruiting antifeminists who nevertheless don’t want a total patriarchy than they are at recruiting the next generation of would-be feminists.

¹By “gone underground” I mean out of view of the feminist-adjacent. I don’t know if they were out of view of feminist insiders at the time.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
6 months ago

Re: learning TERFs exist
I learned some ten years ago that there are people who are vehemently opposed to the existence of trans* people. I was sad to hear about it, but it wasn’t really a surprise, considering that there are all kinds of bigots out there. What was more shocking was to learn that a subset of them call themselves feminists.

What puzzled me most about transphobia all those years ago was the utter ignorance of facts or the lengths they’d go to prove to everyone that they didn’t hate trans* people. Like that apparently well-meaning guy who’d written a lengthy comment somewhere on how he wished trans* women could “become women” if they really wanted to, he wished it so darn much, but that couldn’t change the fact that you can’t “become a woman” because “naturally-born” women just have that essence of femininity that trans* women will always lack.

Makes me think about all of the AFAB people I’ve met whose sex and/or gender gets questioned because they appear androgynous or whatever. Where’s their “essence of femininity”?

Could it be that that’s just a circumspect way of saying that your idea of being a woman (or feminine) is so narrow that almost no one qualifies, be they cis or trans?

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Masse_mysteria

What puzzled me most about transphobia all those years ago was the utter ignorance of facts or the lengths they’d go to prove to everyone that they didn’t hate trans* people.

Many bigots now do some length of coverup but it does seem TERFs go much further in that regard. Of course, I doubt many people in the know are fooled.
(That doesn’t stop many people unfamiliar with TERFism from falling for it, I have had to on multiple occasions request that cis people stop being apologists for TERF rhetoric because they didn’t realize it was transphobic).

Could it be that that’s just a circumspect way of saying that your idea of being a woman (or feminine) is so narrow that almost no one qualifies, be they cis or trans?

As far as I can tell, most TERFs are misogynists who think they can more easily get away with hating trans* women specifically and even pretend to be feminists. For example, in the infamously transphobic episode of “The IT Crowd,” the trans* character is played by a cis woman who then gets beaten up by a man. As far as I can see, that scene exists solely so Graham Linehan could show a woman getting beaten up.
This is also why most TERFs sound more like patriarchal conservatives than feminists.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

Slightly OT:
British TERF group LGB Alliance has been revealed to have Nazi supporters and refuses to denounce them.

Allandrel
Allandrel
6 months ago

@Jenora Feuer

I know PZ Myers over at Pharyngula has complained about physicists trying to do biology multiple times. There’s a lot of ‘why yes, that is an obvious an interesting idea; that’s why we tried it over a hundred years ago before finding out it didn’t actually work’. A lot of ‘very smart’ people seem to have a blind spot about realizing that there are people in other fields who are also very smart, and that anything ‘obvious’ to a non-expert was probably obvious to the experts already.

Put a bunch of them together and you get Less Wrong, who seem to divide their time between reinventing the wheel while insisting that it be square, and shaking in terror at the thought of Roko’s Basilisk despite how mind-breakingly stupid the entire idea is.

Bakunin
Bakunin
6 months ago

@Naglfar
Hardly a shock. Scratch a TERF, find a fash

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Allandrel
Roko’s Basilisk is quite easily the most idiotic thought experiment (if I can even dignify it to call it that) that I’ve ever seen. It’s so fractally wrong it’s hard to know where to start in breaking it down.

Allandrel
Allandrel
6 months ago

Every single aspect of Roko’s Basilisk is stupid, but my favorite (which does NOT make any more sense in context) is this:

Less Wrong Guy: So the AI, long after you are dead, creates a digital duplicate of your mind, which is completely indistinguishable from you. It’s impossible to tell which is the original and which is the duplicate.

(Time travel is apparently involved, I guess? How else are they testing the long-dead original?)

Me: It’s VERY easy to tell. The original me is a long-dead human. The duplicate is a digital entity.

Less Wrong Guy: No, it’s impossible to tell when you use text-based tests only, like the Turing Test.

Me: Ah, I see. It’s impossible to tell the difference so long as you avoid any and all tests that can actually tell the difference.

Here are two squeaky toys! They are completely identical, and it is impossible to tell which is which. Well, so long as the person examining them is blind, and so cannot see that one is red and the other blue. And deaf, so that they cannot hear that one goes SQUEAK and the other goes SQUAWK. And has no sense of smell, so that they cannot smell that one smells like new rubber and one smells like dog saliva.

But so long as your test meets those criteria, they’re completely identical and impossible to tell apart.

Brilliant! No wonder the Less Wrong guys take The Basilisk so seriously that many have suffered existential dread over it, to the point that talk of it is forbidden there.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Allandrel

So the AI, long after you are dead, creates a digital duplicate of your mind, which is completely indistinguishable from you. It’s impossible to tell which is the original and which is the duplicate.

The other thing is, if I’m long dead, even if the duplicate for practical purposes is indistinguishable from me, why do I care? It’s still a duplicate and I’m still dead, so this doesn’t affect me. It’s like how if someone makes a cardboard cutout of a deceased person and burns it, it doesn’t really do anything to the original person.

Brilliant! No wonder the Less Wrong guys take The Basilisk so seriously that many have suffered existential dread over it, to the point that talk of it is forbidden there.

It seems to have become a deity of sorts: they created an idea which they fear to the point that they work to keep it out of their minds, yet they have a sort of reverence towards it. Even though the Basilisk is pure brainless drivel, the whole thing does provide somewhat of a case study into sociology of cults.

Snowberry
Snowberry
6 months ago

Re: Roko’s Basilisk – There are two major philosophical schools of thought it regarding to identity (both personal identity and object identity) – Continuity Theory and Pattern Theory. Both schools have severe flaws when examined in the context of physics and neurology, so probably either the truth is something presently unimaginable or the concept of identity is an illusion. Most people, if they aren’t aware of discourse on the subject and try to think about it at all, subscribe to some fuzzy and not really well thought out version of continuity theory, because it’s more intuitive. Under any form of continuity theory, even poorly formed ones, Roko’s Basilisk is clearly ludicrous.

Under some versions of Pattern Theory, Roko’s Basilisk makes sense. The person who made that argument with Allandrel was either trying to use really bad metaphors to explain high-level concepts in Pattern Theory without making it clear that they were attempting to do so, or else doesn’t actually understand it, because that’s not how it works.

To give a general idea of the difference between the two, I use this variant of the Ship of Theseus/Grandfather’s Axe paradox. Let’s say you have a computer. Over time, you replace the parts of the computer with newer, updated parts. Once the entire thing has had every part replaced, you use all of the old parts to build another computer which uses the exact same parts and configuration as the original did, even if said parts might have changed a little (minor repairs, different rates of wear, maybe the hard drive contents are a little different, etc.). Which computer is the original one? According to Continuity Theory, it’s the one made of newer parts. According to Pattern Theory, it’s the one made of all the old parts. (Though there are some variants of both theories where that’s not quite so clear cut.)

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Snowberry

either trying to use really bad metaphors to explain high-level concepts in Pattern Theory without making it clear that they were attempting to do so, or else doesn’t actually understand it, because that’s not how it works.

I’d guess it’s the second. Assuming the first gives the Basilisk enthusiasts far too much credit into their understanding of philosophy.

Dalillama
Dalillama
6 months ago

@Snowberry

either the truth is something presently unimaginable or the concept of identity is an illusion

It’s kinda both. Identity, consciousness, etc. are illusory as far as can be determined, but since that illusion is the part of us that has a sense of identity we can’t really interact with that fact in a useful or even meaningful way.

Fabe
Fabe
6 months ago

RE:Roko’s Basilisk

Interesting,Did any over you watch ‘Star Trek: Picard’? If so how would you apply Roko’s Basilisk to the end of season 1?

Snowberry
Snowberry
6 months ago

@Fabe: I’ve seen every Star Trek up to ST:Enterprise, though not anything after that (including the reboot movies), but I figure I should put some mentions here:

1. Nobody who knows how they supposedly work would be willing to step into a Star Trek transporter unless they believed in Pattern Identity (even if they only had a fuzzy concept of it and didn’t know it was called anything), as those transporters annihilate you and then reconstruct you elsewhere.

2. We don’t see anyone engaging in the logical outcome of a culture with their technologies and widespread Pattern Identity beliefs – making personal backups to restore themselves in the event of otherwise permanent death.

3. Most of the ST:TNG and Voyager transporter malfunction episodes are based on thought experiments which stomp all over either or both schools of identity; though in-show, they would only matter for Continuity Identity if transporters worked differently.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
6 months ago

@Surplus

Then if this is the way you feel, I would suggest seeing a professional to see if they believe you should be diagnosed with it, to begin treatment. The person I know who had it was my great-uncle, and he was much happier when he was diagnosed and on medication. We could always tell when he was or wasn’t, despite what he said about his total normalcy during cycles where he would improve with medication and then believe that the strength of his own will was enough, go off the medication, and relapse before eventually resuming medication. I highly recommend, if you believe yourself to be ill with this particular illness, that you become diagnosed by a professional and commence medication as soon as possible. It would be a game-changer if this was a problem for you.

Remember to stay safe regarding covid-19 though. I for one would much rather you not die trying to get a doctor’s visit for this. Maybe wait until the trouble is over in Canada.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

Somewhat OT: TERFs have joined various right wing groups in making conspiracy theories about 5G cellular. Both groups appear to believe that 5G masts are causing people to become trans* and now there are arson attacks going on again the cellular companies.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

@various:

“Identity” seems to be a conflation of two things. One you might call referential identity. This is the identity of grandfather’s axe. It’s just a matter of human convention what we consider to be “the same axe”, or computer or etc., and what we don’t. As far as the universe is concerned a form of pattern identity would apply here, in that an axe is an axe is an axe and it doesn’t matter to it which one. If the blade is sharp it will chop wood.

The other would be the personal sense of being, well, a particular person stably over time. That’s a function of memory accumulation and ties in with the thermodynamic arrow of time. You have the sense of being a particular thread of life through time, or the growing-tip of that thread. A form of continuity identity applies “inside”, based on the reef-like accretion of memories and experiences, but “outside” one should expect something like pattern identity to apply: a copy with the same memories would feel that they were you, and consider themselves to have had the same life and experiences up until whenever the copy was made, diverging thereafter. So, internal self-identity is a kind of thread through time, but it can branch.

Ultimately, this self-identity is just a label like “grandfather’s axe” is, but it’s “observer relative”. When you boil it down to whatever information processing underlies conscious experience of qualia, there should be a fundamental symmetry of all observer-moments. We just, in any paricular moment, can’t remember any past observer-moments other than ones that contributed to the particular reef of memories at one growing-tip of which is that current observer-moment. The others are there but we can’t see them, like not being able to see past the edge of the observable universe. And none are less important, so the Kantian categorical imperative more or less falls right out as a consequence. Either no one is an end in themselves or everyone is, and in either case one would have to accept an egalitarian ethos that can not elevate anyone’s potential joys or sufferings in significance above anyone else’s.

What this means for the even bigger questions, such as death, is hard to say with certainty. Likely if the accreting memory-reef can conceivably accrete more on top of any particular spot, then in some sense you can’t die at that spot, as an observer-moment should exist in the physical configuration space that experiences that memory as in its past. You, or someone who considers themselves to be you, would wake up and experience that moment as a continuation of their life through that event. The same thing that happens every time you exit the dreamless phase of sleep, or recover from anaesthesia or a knock-out of any kind. So, most likely some species of quantum immortality is true. If, that is, nothing more is needed to extend an experienced life than to layer on new memories on top of the old. If more is needed then all bets are off.

I no longer fear death due to this, not as such. I do fear pain and suffering that might accompany one, and if I thought anyone would truly miss me I’d fear that being inflicted on them. I fear leaving things unfinished. But pain, suffering, and leaving things unfinished can easily occur for other reasons as well. I fear the possibility of civilizational collapse for, among others, those reasons.

I expect that some combination of quantum information theory and thermodynamics will be needed to formally solve these questions and consider them definitively answered. I don’t expect that when this occurs the conclusions will differ too much from what I’ve presented.

@BTD:

Unfortunately, I have no GP now (thanks, Doug Ford OHIP cuts!) to get any sort of a referral from, nor a clue how to circumvent that, nor do I think any sort of therapist would be insured for me, nor do I have the finances to pay out-of-pocket. Not to mention that I’d likely be stuck anyway due to COVID. The health care system has bigger fish to fry now, believe you me.

Allandrel
Allandrel
6 months ago

The identity thing is another of the absurdities of the Basilisk (it really is fractally stupid). Because the digital duplicate is (supposedly) identical to the long-dead you, the Less Wrong guys insist that it IS you, and therefore you would/should regard what happens to it as happening to yourself.

Nope. Even accepting their “indistinguishable duplicate” argument, the duplicate is a person who, at the moment of its inception, is identical to what I was like at a certain point in time.

Even if you used a The Prestige-like duplicator, you end up with two people, who stop being indistinguishable the moment that they both exist, because from that point on they have different experiences and thoughts.

On the Star Trek front, any claims that a transporter is really “reassembling you” rather than disintegrating you and constructing a duplicate went out the window with the second Riker. Transporters and replicators are functionally the same thing.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

Oh, and one more thing: your self-identity is fungible. Because that coral-like thingy of accreting memory? It’s made of smaller bits woven around one another. Leave a project back burnered for a while and then come back to it some months later if you don’t believe me. Your memories relating to the project will have lain dormant in the interim and you may actually feel like a part of you is waking up from a deep sleep when you resume it. That’s because it is. The strand of your self-identity that’s bound up in that project is built from the project-related memories. When you back-burnered it that part of you went to sleep and was unconscious, as you weren’t consciously accessing those memories, for months. And if you never do resume that project, that splinter-of-you dies, in some sense.

So you’re a whole tapestry of fragmentary-identities that interact somewhat, but can also lie dormant for long periods and even end without all-of-you doing so. You’re not indivisible!

Talonknife
Talonknife
6 months ago

I like how the replies to the Amnesty International tweet are a stream of transphobic garbage and then just one single libertarian dipshit at the end looking very out of place.

Talonknife
Talonknife
6 months ago

I don’t know how that became treat instead of tweet and the site isn’t giving me the option to edit despite having just posted it 30 seconds ago. How odd.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Talonknife
The thing that I noticed most among the replies were how so many were basically the equivalent of “all lives matter.” I’m not surprised. In fact, I’m guessing the kinds of people who pile onto tweets like the Amnesty International one are the same ones who go around saying “all lives matter” in discussions of race.

Rahu
Rahu
6 months ago

@weirwoodtreehugger –

If you’re still looking for charities to donate to, I’d like to suggest the one for which I work – GEMS – Girls Educational and Mentoring Services. We help girls between the ages of 12 and 24 who have been commercially sexually exploited and domestically trafficked.

https://www.gems-girls.org/about-anything

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

Sort of OT: I bet TERFs are going to have a field day with the whole “Karen is a slur business.” They love to declare words they don’t like or that are used against them as slurs. Case in point: they have called themselves “gender critical” for a while now, but now that people have caught onto what it means, they’re walking it back and claiming it’s a slur even though it’s a term they invented and propagated. Not sure what term they want to replace it, but they did the same to the word TERF, which they still call themselves occasionally despite saying it’s a slur.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

How can “Karen” be a slur? It’s just an ordinary name.

Well, it is here in Podunk, Ontario. Is there some place or subculture where it’s something else?

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
6 months ago

@Allandrel:
Ahh, Less Wrong. I have been known to refer to Yudkowsky as ‘Exhibit A that engineers should learn more philosophy so they stop trying to reinvent it… badly’. And I say this as an engineer. He’s yet another case of the ‘yes, this is an interesting idea, that’s why we looked at it a century ago’ problem.

@Dalillama, Surplus:
Yeah, anybody who knows anything about how memory works knows that a lot of our ‘identity’ is straight up illusion. (As I’ve heard it put, ‘anybody who says there are two sides to a story has never had to interview three different witnesses to the same traffic accident’.) But sadly it’s pretty much an impossible one to escape.

@Surplus:
‘Karen’ has started to become a general slang term for the over-privileged white woman.
https://www.vox.com/2020/2/5/21079162/karen-name-insult-meme-manager

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Jenora Feuer, Surplus
My thoughts on the matter are, loosely:
When used by cishet white guys to shut down women, it is potentially an insult. I would recommend that cishet white dudes avoid using the term.
When used by POC, LGBTQIPA+, and other oppressed minorities, it is not harmful the way it is when used by cishet white men.

This whole “Karen is a slur” dialogue started not because of white men using it but because minorities were using it to tell upper middle class white women to let them speak. The “Karen is a slur” business is just another way to shut down discussions of privilege and silence minority voices. It’s very similar to how TERFs started claiming that was a slur when trans* people started calling them it (nevermind that the term was invented by a cisgender trans-inclusive feminist woman).

It is never a slur. That’s not how slurs work at all. Insulting or not, the name Karen is not a slur.

suba suba
6 months ago

SoL5E8 not understanding anything completely, but