By David Futrelle
Incels: asking the questions that no one else dares to. Perhaps because these questions are really, really terrible.
Just so you know: Yes, incels and other edgelords like to call the coronavirus “coronachan.” And yes, incels really do believe that large numbers of white women regularly have sex with their dogs. It’s like a whole thing with these guys; they call it “the dogpill” They think they’re literally being cucked by dogs, who are happily having sex with hot babes who would never dream of having sex with an incel.
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@Naglfar
I believe it’s a matter of degree. I think the claim of these Intelligentcels is that they’re smarter than the other incels. Low bar. Very low bar. That bar is below the bottom of the ocean.
@Pie
Viruses can exchange material, just not by the organized process that bacteria use. With two viruses inside the same host cell, their RNA/DNA can be shuffled by random events.
E.g. two retroviruses both trying to insert into the same position on the host DNA can collide, resulting in a new combination of viral genes.
Not sure how likely this is with this virus, but I did read some speculation along those lines.
Versions of this crap have been making the rounds now. I mean, they’ve been saying that there’s a dogpill for some years now I think, but this specific meme has been making the rounds at least over the last week. I think we’ll see a lot more of this ‘serious question’.
@A. Noyd : which still doesn’t adress the fact thoses problematic people aren’t the same group as white supremacists, because turn out there are several kind of unpleasantness, and some are lethal while other are not.
To give an example, I know an european artist specialized in fetishes that are repulsive (including mutilation), and in a lot of way who complete the archetype of weeaboo (minus the body hygiene, he is pretty clean). Turn out he still isn’t a white supremacist, and not as a fluke.
Also, insults are almost alway supposed to be levied to problematic part of a group. They are used on any member of that group anyway. (and, yes, people call other people weeaboo as soon as they show they like anime).
Re: Coronavirus* origin
This is quite a good summary of the current research.
https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/from-bats-to-human-lungs-the-evolution-of-a-coronavirus
(*as I’m sure everyone here is aware, coronavirus is a group name for a number of diseases, but seems to have become synonymous will Covid-19; or SARS-CoV-2 if we’re actually talking out the virus as opposed to the disease)
Naglfar says:
I think it’s difficult because there’s a good deal of fascist-bait within anime and related industries (games, manga, light novels, etc.). Lots of nihilism, nationalism, regressive sexual politics and objectification, pedophilia, etc. These usually show up in works meant for the more obsessive end of fandom in Japan and are often made by those fans. And don’t forget that 4chan is a derivative of 2chan.
A lot of more casual fans don’t even know that the fascist side of fandom exists, which is fine. But I get irritated with the non-fascist fans who deny that a large chunk of this kind of media is tailored towards the tastes of fascists and other horrible people. The non-Japanese fascists are responding to something that’s already there and aren’t simply perverting an innocent medium to their tastes.
So, personally? I wish that all the regressive shit in anime and fandom would get rooted out. But it’s a lot deeper and more complicated than Western nazi fuckheads simply appropriating cute anime stuff.
Ohlmann says:
I never said they’re the same group, but there is a lot of overlap between weebs and white supremacists. The mindsets of both groups complement one another, and so the groups often have many of the same members. To put it another way, Ebola-chan and Corona-chan come from young white supremacists who are anime lovers.
I’m not sure you get what I meant by “fetishistic behavior.” A weeaboo isn’t just a person into sexual fetishes and anime. They’re one whose fetish is Japan and Japanese people. Like, they eat everything with chopsticks or claim that Japanese music is superior to all other cultures’ music or look for a Japanese spouse while dehumanizing actual Japanese people.
And? You got upset when Anonymous used it to refer to the problematic part of a group. The moe anthropomorphism shit is definitely part of the fascist-leaning side of anime fandom.
For some entirely wholesome and genuine Japanese cultural content, here’s a chorus-style song that a couple of theater kids worked up: “Play at Home with Your Playstations”
It’s named after a line an Italian mayor shouted at quarantine violators. One guy sings all three parts to emphasize the need for staying away from others.
I wrote a song for the incels. Ahem ahem ahem:
I don’t need to fuck a dog
In order to not want to fuck you
I don’t need to have any sex at all
In order to not want to fuck you
I hope one day you feel really bad
About all the shitty, hateful things you’re doing now
I don’t care if my song rhymes because fuck you, you misogynistic pricks.
It is just a first draft, but I’m pretty happy with it.
Question:
Could a fixation on Japanese culture be based on the idea that Japanese culture is a martial cult?
If so, it is not unique.
It seems like the entirety of the world right now is a martial cult, differing only in degree of devotion from place to place.
Asking from an outside perspective. I haven’t really done much, anime or manga-wise, in a lot of years.
*nopes the hell out*
@Viscaria: Bravo! Bravissimo!
@Naglfar:
TBH, I’ve always been wary of fandoms. There’s nothing wrong with liking something enough to call yourself a fan, but any fandom will contain members who take it to extremes and become problematic (“fan” is short for “fanatic”, after all). So, I’m used to saying “I like x, but I don’t think I’m a fan“.
After I watched an anime show for the first time (Neon Genesis Evangelion), I sought out online reactions to it, and what I found (including multiple rape fantasies about fourteen year old characters) persuaded me that I wanted nothing to do with anime fandom, even more so than other fandoms. So, I’m unmoved about right-wingers being into anime: it’s just more gross people joining the other gross people I already distanced myself from. I’ll watch anime from time to time, but I’m uninterested in its fans.
@Moggie
Your first anime was Evangelion? damn that’ss jumping into the deep end of the pool . Hope you enjoyed it at least .
@Fabe:
I… think I did? It was fucked up, but compelling enough that I binge-watched to the end. Though it’s hard to tell how much this was due to its qualities, and how much to the fact that this was a new medium for me. It occurs to me that I’ve never been tempted to rewatch it, unlike other anime series.
Not a massive anime fan, prefer manga(What’s Michael? is cute) , but I recommend Akira and Nausicaa(both manga and anime).
As for fascist themes, that could be simply the fact Japan was an imperial culture until the 40s, more so than even Britain and the Us at the time. Of course there are themes the artists in the culture are processing. Similarly the UK had V for Vendetta. The US grapples with it’s identity as a beacon of hope warring with a vague distrust of authority through superhero comics and related media.
Fetishising the Japanese and artistic works with fascist sympathies says more about what sells to the export market than it does about the Japanese, anime or manga.
One thing westerners completely miss in these conversations is
Manga(comic/characature book story telling mediums) , aren’t some niche market for introverted geeks. They are a mainstream media for all demographics. You might as well criticize “magazines”. Or in the case of anime, “animation”.
@ nobody
Have you seen Future Shock; the documentary about 2000AD?
That picks up some of the points you mention.
The main argument is that British comics always had an undercurrent of cynicism as opposed to mainstream US comics’ optimism.
Neil Gaiman made some particular points that were very interesting; but not really suitable for mention here.
Can we include the fact that anime often as not resents it’s heroes with Caucasian hair and facial features to the extent the “ round eyes” and hair of any color but brown or black have become symbolic of the medium?
The self- loathing that seems to be emblematic of is pretty blatant, though I know that anime fans must either never think of it or have a trove of convulted theories about why it “ridiculous” to attribute those tropes to racism. Not sure I buy any of them, however-
At the same time, I’m aware that criticizing another culture’s cultures as racist can easily be charged as racism, itself- I think its worth pointing out
@Otrame –
What you’re describing is viral recombination, which is definitely a thing that happens, but the evidence suggests SARS-CoV-2 was not the product of recent recombination event: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.26.920249v1
I’m not much of an anime fan anymore, but when I was one, pre-Gamergate, there was very much a vibe of “turn your brain off”; of enjoying whatever you want and not thinking or talking about heavier issues like racism or sexism or burnout in the industry lest one make others feel uncomfortable for liking something terrible. Disagreements like “slavery is always wrong” vs. “slavery is good as long as the slaves are ‘happy’ and/or owned by the protagonist” were swept under the carpet as differences of opinion and preference along the lines of favorite ice cream flavors. There was more focus on technical aspects, like frame rates, resolutions, character designs, and the smoothness of images and little discussion of themes, allegory, or implications, save for surface level analysis like “friends are good” or “believe in yourself”.
And the worst part was that they thought this made them better than everyone else. They thought that ignoring the fact of the slave girl being beaten while admiring the way her breasts wobbling was rendered in pristine frames that took the animators three straight all-nighters to get perfect and how her actress nailed her screams in one take made them better than the normies who whined about how slavery was wrong. They just turned their brains off, and with them, I felt, their hearts, their empathy, and their humanity.
My dad sometimes asks why waste my time reading about what these jackasses think.
I told him it’s because god damn, couldn’t make up this kind of next-level batshit if I tried. This is the kind of bizarre you only get from someone who has obsessive fucked their own brains into another dimension. I cannot wait for a commercial so I can read this to my mother and enjoy her “wtf, lol, srsly?” face.
Somewhat relevant: Conservatives are literally getting COVID-19 to own the libs. This is obviously bad for non-conservatives as well due to exposure. Avoid anyone with Trump hats or other conservative merchandise.
KindaSortaHarmless
You’ve nailed, perfectly, where we are today. That attitude, once held within small communities, has infected the American voter.
People didn’t vote on the bigger issues; but they voted to piss off those who cared about them (“trigger the SJW snowflakes”), while claiming they support the bigger issues. “No, NO. I’m not a racist or sexist. I just thought that ‘pussy grabbing’ talk was funny. Like a joke, ya’know?”
I don’t believe that someone can care enough to line up for hours at a voting booth on election day, but not care about the principles and policies of the person they vote for.
@Naglfar:
Let me try to understand this:
People who are adherents of the point on the political spectrum that claims to be all about “personal responsibility” are being deliberately irresponsible and exposing themselves to an infectious disease and then proceeding to set out to try and infect people they don’t agree with politically in a move that’s technically aggressive but is a really weak aggressive, like aggressive like Barney Fife was aggressive (and my apologies to the estate and any fans of Don Knotts who may see this comment. Mr. Knotts was, by all accounts, a wonderful person who would be appalled by both this specific course of action and the conduct this site monitors).
For the sake of, what, cheap political bragging rights?
I mean Jesus Christ.
People may think like this but most of them at least pay lip service to the idea that doing so is bad.
What the fuck is wrong with these people?
@Justin Campbell
Well the blunt explanation would be is that they have more hate and spite than they do brains.
One other thing about them is that their claims of “personal responsibility” is just empty lips service and smoke screen excuses for them to justify screwing over the poor, the marginalized and persecuted minorities and gas light anyone suffering or getting screwed over by a predatory system that this ilk created.
That being said; what their doing constitutes a form of terrorism; so they now by definition literal terrorists.