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A Voice for Men: The real victim in the Harvey Weinstein case is Harvey Weinstein

By David Futrelle

The folks at the Men’s Rights hate site A Voice for Men like to make up their own rules about rape. The founder of the formerly-sort-of-influential site, one Paul Elam, once famously announced that he was so mad about the way rape trials are conducted that if he were to serve on a jury in such a trial he “vow[ed] publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.”

Now another writer for A Voice for Men — a pompous Canadian windbag named David Solway — has decided he wants to rewrite the laws in rape trials so as to exclude the testimony of the victims because, in his view, “personal allegations do not constitute evidentiary certitude.” Never mind that testimony is allowed as evidence in American criminal courts and that we have juries whose entire job is to evaluate whether or not this evidence is credible and convincing beyond a reasonable doubt.

Solway says “nuh-uh” to that, and devotes most of a rambling 1800-word essay to arguing that the real victim in the Harvey Weinstein case was Harvey Weinstein.

It’s not that Solway doesn’t think the now-convicted rapist is a predator; he thinks that just “[b]ecause a man is a scoundrel with predatory inclinations does not mean we have license to clap him in irons.” (Well, yes it does, if a jury is convinced that his predations rise to the level of a criminal offense.)

Solway begins his long tirade, naturally, by attacking Weinstein’s victims for supposedly allowing themselves to be abused by the predatory film producer — in essence, agreeing to their own sexual abuse and rape. Instead of avoiding him “like the plague,” Solway sniffs, these women sold their souls and their bodies to this particular devil.

Not only that, Solway argues, but they didn’t immediately distance themselves from the man.

[W]hen one reckons that those who claim to have been assaulted or raped by Weinstein did not go to the police immediately after their ordeal when forensic evidence was fresh and may still have been gathered, and that many of these plaintiffs continued to seek out Weinstein’s company with letters of affection and adulation years after the events in question, the issue begins to grow clouded.

It’s “clouded” only to those who don’t understand how powerful Weinstein was and what he could do to people’s lives and careers.

But as Solway sees it, this means that the women in question were not only not really victims; they were also essentially accomplices to Weinstein’s crimes — sorry, to the bad things that he did that somehow aren’t prosecutable crimes to Solway.

Weinstein had accomplices — and the accomplices were the very people who sought his favors and his friendship despite the criminal acts which they allege Weinstein to have committed. No psychological theory of traumatic innocence routinely espoused by feminists can launder such behavior unless we are dealing with infantile minds utterly devoid of moral agency. If Weinstein is guilty, so are his accusers who by their ongoing actions — and lack of consequent reactions — are equally complicit in allowing such criminality to persist, from which others would likely suffer in the future. Participation equals facilitation.

“Participation” in what? Their own rapes? Apparently.

Weinstein’s “casting couch” depredations were apparently common knowledge, but no one seemed very upset. If women sought his company, if they went to his hotel room, if they did not report his outrages, then they were in effect a willing part of the whole disreputable affair.

That’s not how rape works, you piece of shit.

If Weinstein was a perpetrator, they were enablers. They were under no compulsion or violent coercion to traffic with him. Those who decided to sleep their way to the top or to keep silent for fear of jeopardizing their careers must take responsibility for their decision or subsequent omertà and acknowledge their complicity.

Fuck you.

Solway goes on to suggest that Weinstein’s accusers are

a bunch of grasping, invidious, self-infatuated and morally corrupt people … in cahoots with the man they have now turned against.

After a bizarre detour into astrology (don’t ask), Solway concludes that the real criminal here is … Hollywood itself, with Weinstein playing out his role as “the victim of a jurisprudential travesty.”

It’s not much of a surprise that this despicable essay found a home in A Voice for Men — where, it seems, all rape accusations are false allegations, regardless of the number of accusers, regardless of their believability. Elam, long-time readers may recall, responded to the accusations against Bill Cosby by suggesting that the former comedian’s accusers were

just a bunch of drug whoring star fuckers … who commoditized their bodies like groupies who managed to get backstage at a rock concert. …

Women have been trading gash for stash for as long as I can remember, and they still are.

Saying that Bill Cosby gave women ludes to loosen them up for sex is about as worthy of pointing out as the likelihood is that those women loosened Cosby’s grip on his drugs by sticking their tits in his face.

Solway’s language may be less crude than Elam’s, but his argument is essentially the same: Weinstein’s accusers were selling their bodies to get ahead in Hollywood, and thus were at least as guilty as their abuser.

I’m not making any accusations myself here, but this is how abusers think. This is how rapists think. And this is evidently the party line at A Voice for Men.

Just more evidence showing why the Men’s Rights movement is a hate movement.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Snowberry

conservative worldviews aren’t great at producing non-cruel humor.

They’re mostly just not good at humor, period. Conservatives generally seem to only know one kind of joke and that’s the helicopter one, occasionally substituting in different inanimate objects.

Snowberry
Snowberry
4 years ago

Sigh… on that note, latest version of the Attack Helicopter joke: “Amazing how only males and females are getting coronavirus. Are the other 57 genders immune?” This is a disease statistics reporting joke, if that’s not obvious.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Snowberry
Make that two jokes. Conservatives have previously had a joke about the wage gap between 57 genders (always the number 57, not sure why) which manages to both deny trans* people and the wage gap.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ naglfar

always the number 57, not sure why

I’d guess it’s a Heinz refencence.

Ironically enough Heinz just picked a number at random too; they had more varieties than 57 but they though it sounded good.

ginger
ginger
4 years ago

@Nagalfar

“In both cases they were able to put aside their racism and antisemitism to defend a reprehensible piece of shit…”

Nothing unites MRAs and other bigots like misogyny!

Lizard People Operative
Lizard People Operative
4 years ago

AvFM are still around? I’d kind of assumed they’d fallen apart without El(am) Presidente* around to direct the hate and kick any dissenting voices.

*I have been playing a lot of Tropico 4 recently…

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

always the number 57, not sure why

I’d guess it’s a Heinz refencence.

Which me reminds me of The Manchurian Candidate (the original movie, this wasn’t in the book) when Johnny Iselin finds it too confusing to always change the number of people in government he’s accusing of being communists and hie and Ellie settle on 57 because they’re having a meal and there’s a bottle of Heinz at the table.

In other words, real life reactionaries are as stupid and unimaginative as fictional reactionaries.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

always the number 57, not sure why

I’d guess it’s a Heinz refencence.

Which me reminds me of The Manchurian Candidate (the original movie, this wasn’t in the book) when Johnny Iselin finds it too confusing to always change the number of people in government he’s accusing of being communists and hie and Ellie settle on 57 because they’re having a meal and there’s a bottle of Heinz at the table.

In other words, real life reactionaries are as stupid and unimaginative as fictional reactionaries.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@LPO
They still seem to be around because Paul Elam retired, then unretired, but never reached their former heights because most MRAs have moved on to the alt right and straight-up fascism.

occasional reader
occasional reader
4 years ago

Strange thing that it is often persons with almost not a single grasp of psychology that pretend to explain how bad the victims have acted… They are a bit like the people with no knowledge of ballistic physics (or even simple basic physics, really) who say “But why the victim did not dodge the bullet ?”…

Paireon
Paireon
4 years ago

Wow. Looks like a whoooole bunch of false equivalencies in that reasoning.

Also, they seem to be unfamiliar with how blackmail works.

The dude writing about “starfuckers” seems to think being forcibly pressured into reluctantly giving out sexual favors that would not have been given otherwise is the same as freely offering said sexual favors too – not to mention that I’m pretty sure that a lot of groupies invited backstage at rock concerts ended up being pressured into giving a lot more than they’d wanted.

RE Vic Mignogna, despite being a bit of a weeb myself I must confess I haven’t followed the case closely (especially since I tend to prefer subtitles to dubbing); that said, if any of his or his stans’ claims were substantiated I’m guessing the court wouldn’t have dismissed his lawsuit. Last I’d heard he was appealing the verdict; anyone know a reasonably reliable site with info on the case? Most links I get from googling seem to be from said stans (including such “stalwarts” as One Angry Gamer) or similar Gamer/Comicsgate-aligned outlets (like boundingintocomics).

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
4 years ago

@Paireon:
Well, remember a lot of these folks consider women to be the ‘gatekeepers’ of sex, because women are allowed to say no to them with no repercussions. The fact that they personally have no overbearing power in the relationship so a woman can (relatively) safely say ‘no’, but Weinstein did and thus women had more problems, eludes them.

As for Vic Mignogna, one of the places I was following that was at Nerd and Tie. It’s hardly their biggest point of discussion (they do SF/Anime/etc Convention news in general) but they have a tag on him at http://www.nerdandtie.com/tag/vic-mignogna/ and they’re pretty good about linking to sources (including sometimes just saying ‘we don’t have the space to do more than summarise this, but this other site has done a great job of detailing it all’). The comments sections were, unsurprisingly, flooded with stans, but were pretty equally flooded with folks who pointed out how idiotic the stans were being. (Nerd and Tie comments sections tend to be relatively small unless something like this comes up.)

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
4 years ago

Oh, the ‘other site’ I mentioned above is Anime News Network: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-07-29/the-mignogna-deposition/.149401

J.
J.
4 years ago

I remember the Vic case. I recently saw someone comparing social distancing #metoo.

They said that #metoo and other movements were already making men and women “socially distant“ because of false rape claims. It was an odd way to capitalize on an international crisis.

vaiyt
4 years ago

A Voice For The Most Terrible Men Around.