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women's jobs aren't real

MRAs think men, and only men, “keep society running.” They’ve apparently never been to a hospital

Garbagemen are great, but it takes more than garbagemen to keep the world going

By David Futrelle

Men’s Rights activists like to pat themselves, and their fellow men, on the back for doing the hard work that keeps civilization going. It’s overwhelmingly men, they point out, who mine the coal, who cut down the trees, who build the houses, who put out these houses when they catch on fire, and who do any number of other Really Manly Man things that the world needs, or thinks it needs, done. (I’m pretty sure that we could do without the coal.)

Men’s jobs are essential, MRAs love to say, while women’s jobs are basically pointless make-work.

You might think that the coronavirus would crack a little hole in this crackpot theory. The people on the real front lines in fighting this deadly virus are healthcare workers — doctors, nurses, and others who are literally risking their lives to treat the exponentially increasing number of victims.

And healthcare workers, as anyone who ever visits a hospital surely notices almost at once, are overwhelmingly female. Indeed, nearly 80 percent of those in healthcare are women, and women make up more than 90 percent of nurses. And while the majority of doctors are men, that’s beginning to change: some 60 percent of doctors under the age of 35 in the US are women.

At this point in my life, for what it’s worth, virtually all the medical care I get comes from women. My primary care physician is a woman. My psychiatrist is a woman. My therapist is a woman. The nurses that check my vitals and draw my blood are almost always women. When I had to go to the emergency room several months back everyone who treated me was a woman.

MRAs would rather celebrate garbagemen than acknowledge that women are out there doing literally lifesaving work. Indeed, a recent post in the Men’s Rights subreddit focuses on a viral tweet by a garbageman who’s proud of the essential work he’s doing in this crisis (as he should be; he is indeed doing vital work that benefits us all, though maybe he shouldn’t be so noisy with the cans).

The trouble is that the OP uses the garbageman’s tweet as some sort of “proof” that “[m]en keep society running, especially in times of crisis.” And most of the discussion involves a lot of jokes about the reluctance of women to enter this particular profession — which is roughly 99% male — without acknowledging that women have been systematically discriminated against in this and in pretty much all of the predominantly male professions that MRAs like to celebrate.

Here are the top comments in this scintillating conversation.

RT-AC66U 37 points 23 hours ago 
Where are the garbage women?

permalinkembedunsavereportgive awardreply

[–]conneramitch 26 points 22 hours ago 
Theyre almost non existant

permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive awardreply

[–]unknownuseridboi 39 points 21 hours ago 
Oh no, not inequality in the garbage sector too!

permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive awardreply

[–]ArrestedDevelopments 6 points 13 hours ago 
STEM-G?

permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive awardreply

[–]Tmomp 12 points 13 hours ago 
Women working as garbage collectors?

Hahahaha, that's a good one.

Another fellow had these thoughts about garbage collection and teaching.

ShawshankRetention 24 points 19 hours ago 
The role of garbage collector is really underrated.

Meanwhile, our emergency measures have show us that schools could be closed withouth problems.

Perhaps a teacher could have taught him that “shown” is the proper word here, not “show.”

There are some commenters, thankfully, who point out that women, too, contribute to the world in many ways. There’s even a mention of nurses. So not all MRAs are quite so hermetically sealed off from reality as out OP here. But it’s unfortunate that so many of them are.

I wonder how many of the commenters in this Men’s Rights subreddit thread work as garbagemen, or lumberjacks, or firefighters or indeed at anything that might require them to stand up from time to time. They can’t be doing much in the way of heroic work if they have so much time to peruse the Men’s Rights subreddit. Unless maybe they’re firemen, who do indeed have a lot of down time. But somehow I’m thinking not, because we’d never hear the end of their bragging if they were. Like most MRAs, they’re happy to claim personal credit for anything heroic done by any man in history, while taking blame for nothing. They are the very definition of non-essential.

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Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
7 months ago

Star Trek was prescient here. Nearly the entire medical staff of the NCC-1701-D was female. So was the ship’s counselor.

So was the bartender, for that matter, the unofficial second ship’s counselor. 🙂

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

A woman invented the gel hand sanitizer that we all love so much right now.

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
7 months ago

Said garbageman didn’t even bring women into it. He explicitly said that doctors and nurses would keep doctoring and nursing, and that EVERYONE working together would get through this.

Fair enough, garbagemen are unsung heroes. SO ARE NURSES AND CAREGIVERS AND TEACHERS. For people who claim to disdain the Oppression Olympics, these men’s rights doofuses sure love to stretch.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

They can’t be doing much in the way of heroic work if they have so much time to peruse the Men’s Rights subreddit.

The MRA paradox: they love to ramble about “male disposability” yet none of them do any of the ultra-manly jobs they love to talk about. And none of them ever think that maybe the reason women aren’t in those fields has to do with toxic masculinity, and that maybe there would be more female lumberjacks or firefighters if that were reduced. I don’t know any lumberjacks (not much logging in my area), but I’ve met a few female firefighters who seemed just as competent as any man in the job.

My current primary care doctor is a woman of color. I don’t think I’d trust an MRA doctor.

@KindaSortaHarmless

He explicitly said that doctors and nurses would keep doctoring and nursing, and that EVERYONE working together would get through this.

The garbageman in question sounds like he probably wouldn’t be all too happy about how MRAs are twisting his words.

Fair enough, garbagemen are unsung heroes.

Even more unsung heroes are women in waste disposal. I’m sure there are women involved who get very little acknowledgement.

For people who claim to disdain the Oppression Olympics

They only dislike it when they’re losing (which is generally the case). The Oppression Olympics isn’t a good game, but these men are just epically bad at it.

tim gueguen
7 months ago

I don’t know about where those specific MRAs live, but in my neck of the woods garbage collection is done by one driver in a truck. The truck uses a mechanical grip to pick up the garbage can and dump the contents into the truck. The days of a couple of people running behind the truck dumping garbage in the back are long gone.

Dalillama
Dalillama
7 months ago

@Naglfar

Even more unsung heroes are women in waste disposal. I’m sure there are women involved who get very little acknowledgement.

A very large portion of the cleaning staff, just for a start.

galanx
galanx
7 months ago

In the early days of “The Walking Dead” comment sections were full of manly men talking about “muh guns” and how they didn’t need no women around except for you-know-what. I pointed out that the most valuable member of society was the female character who knew how to can, pickle, and otherwise preserve food.

FlyByKiwi
FlyByKiwi
7 months ago

I have discussed zombie apocalypse survival skills at length with a friend. I have NO useful skills. She said she’d save me, which is jolly good of her. And my job is certainly not essential to the running of society (and if it didn’t get done for a few weeks, if the country shut down, that would be fine). But neither, therefore, are the jobs of all the women and MEN I work with. How selective does your vision have to be?

J
J
7 months ago

I’m not trying to downplay garbage collectors here. But most cleaners are women. The people actually cleaning up the world are women. All the garbage collectors do is come pick up the neatly packaged result of all the cleaners’ hard work and move it to a storage area. This is just a situation of women’s low paid extremely hard work being completely erased and all the credit given to the much higher paid men who did maybe 5% of it.

Anonymous
Anonymous
7 months ago

Meanwhile, we have…this.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/18/refusal-pelosi-consider-universal-cash-payments-response-coronavirus-pandemic

Is this what the Democrat leadership has been reduced to? Moving to the right of TRUMP of all people? Seeing that Sanders’ chances of nomination are looking increasingly low, we had better make sure that Pelosi at least doesn’t get re-elected.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
7 months ago

I can’t find it now, but two or three years ago I read an article about people who sorted materials at a recycling center in San Francisco. It’s hard work, you have to be very careful to avoid dangerous materials (sharp objects, chemicals, and so on), and it pays poorly. The workers at this particular center were largely people of color, and, judging from the photos, largely women.

Garbage collectors are great; we couldn’t live in cities without them. But so are the workers at recycling centers, who do dirty, dangerous work for little pay.

In summary, MRAs are vicious idiots.

Johanna
Johanna
7 months ago

I presume the reason they think schools can close without any major effects on society is that they either don’t have children, or are relying on their wives/girlfriends/exes to deal with home/online-schooling the kids.

Sheila Crosby
7 months ago

Grocery store staff are also essential. As are hospital cleaners and cleaners in general.

I’m a tour guide. I’m not essential. I make my customers happy, but I’m a luxury, totally unnecessary for survival. Which is why it doesn’t matter that I’m in lockdown in Spain. I’m still more useful than people than people who spend their days spreading negativity.

#StompThatCurve

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
7 months ago

I get the feeling most MRAs wouldn’t care about garbage collectors if they couldn’t use them as a gotcha. That’s exactly why they can turn a blind eye on the essential work that’s predominantly done by women. Maybe there’s some convenient “biology” to explain that nurses who are women are just doing what comes naturally to women, while garbage collectors are doing something no human wants to do, so it’s more heroic or something.

In the places where I’ve worked, I’ve tried to always be nice to the cleaning staff, greeting them and helping them when I could (especially in that one place where the cleaning staff didn’t have keys for our office door) even though I’m socially awkward and I can’t discuss football no matter how hard I try, because their work is hard, they’re underappreciated and not matter what they do, people complain about them. I’ve always been worried I’d annoy them, but I’ve kept at it because I want them to know they’re appreciated.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
7 months ago

@Anonymous

I mean I agree she should just pass it for a variety of reasons different to the article, but this argument in that article, “[why wait] when you can simply disburse the funds *now* and collect from high-income recipients *later*?” is disingenuous at best. That will never ever happen in the era of Trump, and it is either mind-boggling stupidity or incredibly insulting for the author to pretend that it would. I don’t even know why “she’s right, but do it later” is an argument that that person wants to make for other reasons.

Bernie argued much more strongly for all of his measures than this article has for anything by saying all Americans must be treated the same, including free education, healthcare, etc.

Romaine-la-Prophétesse
Romaine-la-Prophétesse
7 months ago

Where I live there are women working in garbage disposal. Traditionally not – yes – but I see more and more young women working in that field, also in other menial jobs, its very noticable with chimney sweeps for example.
Also when I had to have an emergency operation the lead doctor and surgeon where both men, but I was very glad for the very empathetic female anesthetist and the female nurse who was there the whole night for my sorry self with my post-anaesthesiatic daze. She took much more time to explain everything to me and care for me than the doctor who just handed me a letter with the procedures. Also as the son of a kinder garden nurse it’s really outrageous for me how people disregard the important work, that those people (mor than 90% of them women) are doing for the whole of society is disregarded and still really poorly paid.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Tim Gueguen

The days of a couple of people running behind the truck dumping garbage in the back are long gone.

Where I live we still have one person driving the truck and a couple people standing on the back to throw stuff in, so maybe where he lives that’s how it works.

@Johanna

I presume the reason they think schools can close without any major effects on society is that they either don’t have children, or are relying on their wives/girlfriends/exes to deal with home/online-schooling the kids.

Or because they believe schools are some sort of “left wing indoctrination” that supposedly brainwash students, which many conservatives actually think. Or they just hate education, as conservatives have been slashing education budgets for decades.

Victorious Parasol
7 months ago

For years they’ve been whinging about how come the apocalypse, we’ll all be flocking to them for protection.

Well, this is looking like an apocalyptic situation (in the original meaning of “reveal”), and what we’re seeing is a lack of a need/desire for “manly men” with their BFGs running around. What we’re seeing is people finding new ways to connect with each other, trading tips for how to get through this, sustaining their communities, building new networks of support where they can, etc.

It’s an imperfect set of solutions so far, but still nothing that could be fixed by a buncha idjits strutting around looking all heavily armed.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
7 months ago

Not surprising that viciously ignorant, learning-averse people think closing the schools has no effect on society. These are the same guys who chafe at “being told what to do” by female teachers.

How many of these garbage-collector-worshipping guys wash dishes, change diapers and bedpans, pick up toys, clean windows, sweep crumbs, mop up spills, disinfect counters, vacuum rugs, and empty wastebaskets themselves, versus having it done for them by women? These tasks don’t stop existing just because they cover their eyes and don’t see them.

While they’re explaining How The World Works to each other, maybe they could use this quarantine time to master object permanence.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
7 months ago

I used to work for the County Council environmental services. Only for a season. We did grass cutting, litter collection, etc. and as part of that we occasionally checked on the elderly people living in shelted housing. Of the 50 people in the department, there were 3 women, and the men, apart from two or three older guys who were very respectful, were quite crude. No wonder women don’t want to work in those services.

Many of my close women relatives and a few friends have over the years worked in cleaning and nursing. Cleaning is one of those jobs you get when you have kids or caring responsibilities and need to work around them in my experience. It’s hard work, under paid and utterly essential. Businesses don’t work without them, schools and hospitals need them just to be able to open.

Most domestic care is done by women. The world would fall apart with the free care women do. Carer’s allowance is £66/week. And that’s only if you do more than 35 hours a week in a formal capacity of some kind, like my mum who is carer for her partner. She was also carer for my grandad before he died, she looks after my gran, she does a lot of caring for me, when they were younger she cared for my sister’s kids. None of it paid, but just because that’s what you do. Also, she was working full time at the time. Repeat all over the world. Do the MRAs think that this stuff wouldn’t cost a fortune if it was paid for?

That’s just the ‘traditional women’s roles’ stuff people assume you have to do. What about everything else?

*head desk*

Do they live under rocks?

varalys the dark
7 months ago

Our rubbish collection hasn’t happened today, so…

Grace
Grace
7 months ago

Nanny Oggs Bosom:

Do they live under rocks?

It’s willful ignorance. The cruelty IS the point.

Grace

Katamount
7 months ago

@Anonymous

I’m finding it really hard not to just be glib about the Democratic establishment and their political instincts. Way to read the moment, folks!

Ah, I’m sure they’ve got things under control with that Joe Biden guy. (Ah dang, there I go again!)

A. Noyd
A. Noyd
7 months ago

I wonder how many of them unwittingly rely on clothes, electronics or anything else manufactured in China, where women make up anywhere from thirty to eighty percent of the factory workforce.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 months ago

Lots of women working typically low-paying jobs in grocery stores (edit: as Sheila Crosby said above) and pharmacies putting their own health at risk in order to keep feeding people. I’m grateful to all the people of all genders that are out there doing crucial and underappreciated work.

Perry
Perry
7 months ago

Holy shit these people are delusional. And — maybe I’m just more tuned in to the political climate today then I was a few years ago — but they also strike me as horribly behind the times. Not just in a “misogyny is so archaic” way, but in a “we’re living in a time of mass economic despair that has led to the rise of both fascism and leftist coalition-building, and you can only conceive of class in terms of career differences between men and women” way.

Of course garbage collectors and every member of the working class keep society running and largely get treated like shit in return. But the only way one could come to the conclusion that working men rather than working people make up this class is if they cherry pick the male-dominated service jobs and ignore all the others. If they really wanna force a conversation of gender disparity in career though, I guess I can talk about how Wall Street, Congress and every Corporate board — all dominated by disproportionately powerful men — are literally destroying the fucking world for regular people.

@Anonymous

Of course, given the relatively rare chance, women with power are equally as bad. It baffles me every day not only how corrupt and evil the Democrat party is, but also how incompetent. Trump is literally gonna run to the left of Biden and the Dems and the American electorate is gonna believe him.

And tbh the democratic party hasn’t really been reduced to anything, they’ve always been like this. Despite mounting ineffectual lip service against the socially bigoted aspects of his presidency, Pelosi and Schumer haven’t lifted a finger to stop the actual policies of the administration, because economically they have the exact same interests. There’s a reason why Pelosi has posed a bigger threat to actually her genuinely progressive colleagues like Ocasio-Cortez and Omar than she has to Trump. She was never on our side.

Tabby Lavalamp
Tabby Lavalamp
7 months ago

And while the majority of doctors are men, that’s beginning to change: some 60 percent of doctors under the age of 35 in the US are women.

Based on the history of other professions when women started becoming the majority of workers, I wonder what the tipping point will when doctors start becoming underpaid and underappreciated in the US.

***

A WARNING FROM A CANADIAN…

Speaking of doctors and pay, a even if you all get M4A and it’s not scuttled by the Supreme Court, don’t forget that conservatives still exist and Republicans will still get into power. The pandemic hit us here in Alberta just as our conservative government was coming up with a budget that has massive cuts to healthcare, and those cuts included doctor billing (that affects not just their pay, but their staff and office costs too).

Because of the pandemic, the government stepped back on the pay cut but they have rammed the rest of the budget through. As long as there’s a public health option, conservatives will do their damnedest to kill it. If it’s popular, and it always is, they will starve it then insist it’s broken and “throwing money at it” won’t fix it.

What Republicans are already trying to do with Medicare and Social Security? They will do that with M4F, and they’re not going to want to give it decades to become popular enough that they have to do this long term killing.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Tabby Lavalamp

As long as there’s a public health option, conservatives will do their damnedest to kill it.

Yeah, sadly conservatives have to break everything. My hope is that in the future the Republican Party will become obsolete, as not many young people support it and so it will either have to change or go extinct in order to maintain relevance.

CenterFold
CenterFold
7 months ago

Everyone doing important work during Corona has my admiration. This goes for the many, many Men and the small handful of women alike.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
7 months ago

May their ideas and influence go extinct.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
7 months ago

About 25 years ago, I worked as a secretary for the USPS (United States Postal Service). I wasn’t a postal worker, tho; I was a low-paid temp/contract employee. My job was one of numerous office positions the USPS filled with contractors, and/or temps. Guess what? I never saw a man in any of these positions. They were all clerical, and low paid.

I was out sick for an entire week once, with a flu & sinus infection. When I came back, my desk looked like it had been hit by a hurricane, there was so much work piled up on it. To add insult to injury, because I was a temp, I got no sick pay.

Bona fide postal paper pushers, almost all male, took time off, and their desks weren’t engulfed while they were out.

Now, I realize there was much more going on here than simple sexism. I do think it’s important to note, however, all of the low paid, clerical workers, contractors/temps, were women.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
7 months ago

I can tell you that ShawshankRetention is quite wrong and that closing the schools isn’t as simple as just announcing it on the TV news. Remote learning is being put in place. Now we have to hope that it will be effective. Remote learning is a very different experience from having a teacher right there and engaging in group/hands-on projects.

We also have to hope that the kids actually do the work instead of slacking off, that parents ensure that their children do the work. Students with engaged parents who have the time will do well. Students with neglectful parents or parents who have to be away working all the time will fall behind.

Right now in the district I work for, lots of planning and work is being put in making sure that low-income kids can still eat. Also, childcare is being provided free of charge for medical personnel and first responders.

As for me, I am fortunately on a paid ‘quarantine’, since I’m primary caregiver for a partially paralyzed stroke patient who’s prone to pneumonia. Which is fine because I’m a custodian and there’s barely anything to clean at this point.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
7 months ago

Oh, and about garbage collectors…I’m related, by marriage, to a New York City garbageman. He works in the city, but lives in Pennsylvania. He commutes God knows how far to work, nearly every day. He could afford to live closer to NYC, but his Union salary goes so much farther out in the boonies. He’s got a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom split level house.

Like someone mentioned in the above comments, he’s not physically running behind a truck, picking up heavy garbage bins.

I don’t begrudge him his salary. I don’t deny his work is important, and necessary. All I’m trying to say is, I believe being a cashier in a supermarket is mentally more demanding. It may even be physically more demanding.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@LindsayIrene

Now we have to hope that it will be effective. Remote learning is a very different experience from having a teacher right there and engaging in group/hands-on projects.

Another difficulty relates to low-income students who don’t have internet access at home. Much of remote learning is now through video conferencing or other online classroom programs, which students without internet at home can’t use. And libraries are closed, so many of these students cannot use the programs at all. I worry about students in those situations.

@CenterFold

Everyone doing important work during Corona has my admiration.

For a minute I thought you actually were going to say something intelligent.

This goes for the many, many Men and the small handful of women alike.

…Then you said this. Not sure how there are a “small handful” of women when as stated above women make up the majority of nurses and other healthcare workers, which are highly important right now.

Rinsuu
Rinsuu
7 months ago

Funny how cleaning staff aren’t brought up…

A lot of the women in my family work as cleaners. And most of them have mostly female coworkers. My nan was head of housekeeping at our local hospital, even, until she retired recently.

I guess its not as butch and manly as driving a big garbage lorry around but its still really important. And really overlooked, even though its such an important job, especially in a hospital.

Its definitely more hardcore than rubbish collecting though. I’m sure rubbish men don’t have to clean blood off the walls. But don’t tell the fragile men that.

Makroth
Makroth
7 months ago

@CenterFold

You need to talk to people more. Particularly people outside the circles you frequent.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
7 months ago

CentreFold is a really lackluster troll. Come on, a lot of us are stuck at home. Be more entertaining! Dance, troll, dance!

comment image

Some Chick in Texas
Some Chick in Texas
7 months ago

“A small handful of women”
I need to know how to detach myself from reality this hard. Seems like it would be a useful coping skill right about now.
Signed,
A “small handful of women” working in the grocery supply chain

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
7 months ago

@Naglfar
No, see, it’s just that nurses aren’t doing important work during a pandemic (unless if they’re men, I suppose?), that’s why you need to capitalise the word “men” but not “women”. Who need healthcare workers in a pandemic? Just make sure the coal gets mined!

@CenterMold
I’m assuming you won’t respond to any of us this time either, so you could at least have been entertaining on your one go. It’s just basic decency, you know. Or I guess you don’t?

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
7 months ago

My employer shut down most operations on Monday. The majority-female cleaning crew and the almost entirely female accounting department are still working. But it can’t be important work, or men would be doing it, right?

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Masse_mysteria
If we get lucky maybe he’ll think of something amusing to say. He sometimes responds, after all. But I’m not holding my breath.

miel
miel
7 months ago

the law of nitpicking: you are never more likely to make a spelling mistake than when correcting someone else’s spelling. hence mr. futrelle’s slight slip above.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
7 months ago

When I was visiting my parents, I saw garbage trucks that used the arms to pick up the bins, dump them, and then put them back. My parents had previously complained that even though they put their bins where they were told, they always wound up in the middle of the driveway.

It’s because the garbage truck never actually stopped. It just slowly cruised along, presumably so it could finish the entirety of the route on time.

Where I live, houses are MUCH closer together. The width of my parents driveway is almost the entire width of the house lots. (The are narrow, but long.) So, even though all of our bins have the little hook to let them be grabbed by the garbage collectors, it requires a couple of people to go and get the bins, bring them to the truck, hook them onto the thing that lifts them up, take them off, and bring them back.

I’m also thinking of the overnight shelf stocking crew I was a part of, many years ago. It was if not mostly women, at least an even split. So there’s another underpaid essential service that we’re seeing!

Oh, right, CenterFold. You’re really boring, you know that? And also a coward, to just drop a comment here, and run. /shrug Hope it makes you happy, I guess?

Dalillama
Dalillama
7 months ago

@Big Titty Demon

, “[why wait] when you can simply disburse the funds *now* and collect from high-income recipients *later*?

That’s an absurd proposal, for the opposite reason. Means-testing is poison for social programs, and there is absolutely no valid argument in its favour. They ought to just be sending put money full stop. A bunch of rich assholes will get a few grand they’ll never notice, and a bunch of people in need will get help.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
7 months ago

@Dalilama

This was my point with my Bernie comment*. It is his exact argument for free education for all and medicare for all. I could not agree with you more.

But the idea of suggesting that one can ever get money back from rich people once it’s gone out is still ludicrous.

*While not originally a Bernie supporter (Warren all the way), I must now hope in the face of equally widening odds that he becomes the nominee over Biden.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
7 months ago

@Dalillama:

Means-testing is poison for social programs, and there is absolutely no valid argument in its favour. They ought to just be sending put money full stop. A bunch of rich assholes will get a few grand they’ll never notice, and a bunch of people in need will get help.

Wholeheartedly agreed. Just give it to everyone (and health care, etc.) and let the claw-back from the richer people take the form of their being in a higher tax bracket.

Of course, universal programs being politically much harder to kill is precisely why they get such vehement opposition from conservatives …

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
7 months ago

This is the Republican plan:

The legislation would provide checks of $1,200 per adult for many families, as well as $500 for every child in those families. Families filing jointly would receive up to $2,400 for the adults.

And yeah, it’ll do means-testing:

The size of the checks would diminish for those earning more than $75,000 and phase out completely for those earning more than $99,000.

In fact:

The poorest families, those with no federal income tax liability, would see smaller benefits, though the minimum would be set at $600.

So in reality

About 22 million people earning under $40,000 a year would see no benefit under the GOP plan

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/19/trump-coronavirus-economic-plan-stimulus/

This bullshit isn’t “outflanking the Democratic leadership” from the left or any other direction, it’s the rethugs pulling yet another con job and hoping nobody notices.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
7 months ago

@CenterFold

Everyone doing important work during Corona has my admiration. This goes for the many, many Men and the small handful of women alike.

So you’re a complicated person. Not just a monster, but also a person who can appreciate others, especially Men and a tiny number of women.

As always with manospherians, definitions are left out of your message. What do you mean by important? Who do you define as Men? (I know who women are: they’re everyday people.)

Crip Dyke
7 months ago

The MRA paradox: they love to ramble about “male disposability” yet none of them do any of the ultra-manly jobs they love to talk about.

Yes, they rant about “male disposability” and to prove their thesis they do nothing that the world can’t do better without. They are male disposability in action, in very much the same way that Republicans in the USA insist that government in the USA is incompetent and corrupt in order to elected so that they can legislate on issues they don’t know about, engage in corruption, and appoint other incompetent, corrupt people to lead the executive departments of government.

mark grieger
mark grieger
7 months ago

A bit off-topic, but the EEOC link reminded me of a Chicago story involving an employment agency that used “code” words to differentiate Black and Hispanic workers. Also reminds me that we need Unions, but the way they treated Women in the 70’s/80’s was really awful.
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