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Coronavirus Crash Open Thread

The official number of Americans sick with coronavirus doubled over the weekend; markets are plunging. There’s a lot to talk about, so here’s a new open thread.

This tweet from Eric Trump really hasn’t aged very well.

https://twitter.com/EricTrump/status/1233478845719818242

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Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Diego Duarte

How’s the hunt for supplies and groceries going?

Not particularly bad here yet, but I’ve still made sure to stock up on non perishable items in the event that things get worse.

There was a lady at the convenience store this morning, buying up all the last of the toilet paper.

There have been a few people who have done that, but in my area people haven’t gone that far yet.

Makes you wonder how many world leaders are going to get infected because of their recklessness.

This is compounded by the fact that most world leaders are older, and therefore at higher risk.

@Lainy
There are several universities nearby and all but one have suspended or moved to online classes. Probably for the best.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

There’s rumors that Bolsanaro has coronavirus, but apparently they’re still unsubstantiated.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
7 months ago

Drumpf might restrict domestic travel to Washington state if our area gets “too hot” but he’s dragging his feet on declaring a national emergency because Jared is still doing “research.”

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
7 months ago

@Violet: my rant wasn’t aimed at you, you clarified and that was enough for me. I completely agree with you! Sorry you thought it was aimed at you.

Allandrel
Allandrel
7 months ago

My state’s governor just canceled school for three weeks (well, the two following spring break) and banned most gatherings of over 100 people. He also said that the state will be working closely with nonprofits to deliver free meals to kids who will be in need without school lunches.

He said, “We are all in this together, whether we like it or not. We have to take care of each other.”

He’s a Republican. Saying and doing “socialist” things like this will lose him a lot of support from conservative voters.

I personally am going to limit my exposure to others as much as possible, basically only leaving home for work and medical care. I’m immunocompromised, so I’m part of the high risk population.

Tovius
7 months ago

@Alan
The only reason the UK is excluded is because trump has golf resorts there.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

@ tovius

I guess that’s like Kyoto not being bombed because Henry Stimson had his honeymoon there.

(Although it was probably Langdon Warner who actually persuaded Truman)

epitome of incomprehensibility

Sophie Gregoire, the Canadian prime minister’s wife, tested positive for the virus and is in isolation. She says she’s OK. Justin Trudeau doesn’t seem to have it, but he’s in quarantine just in case.

Trudeau isn’t my favourite person in the world, but I’m sorry that they’re in a stressful situation like this.

I don’t think there’s a big risk in me going to work tomorrow & Saturday (small tutoring centre in Montreal, I’m there part time). We’re also in a luckier situation than many, since most tutoring can be done online if need be, so I’m more worried about how this is affecting people who are physically and economically vulnerable.

Then again, Concordia University in Montreal cancelled its classes Friday-Sunday. I’m taking one class there and I got the notice today. They may stop the larger classes starting Monday, we’ll wait and see.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

O/T: The Brazilian government is allowing missionaries to commit a genocide of indigenous people by forcibly converting them and bringing in disease.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

So, could Bolsanera die of the Coronavirus already ?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

@ naglfar

The Brazilian government is allowing missionaries to commit a genocide

Yup; but conversion isn’t the goal; it’s purely a commercial decision. The missionaries are just a useful tool.

Since contact the government has handed out most of the Ayoreo’s forest to ranchers

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
7 months ago

WWTH

There’s rumors that Bolsanaro has coronavirus, but apparently they’re still unsubstantiated.

Yesterday I read some Brazilian sources that he had tested positive. But he is in isolation and nothing has been reported since. It is still unconfirmed as of this morning.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Diego Duarte
So is Trump likely to have it as well now? I know they shook hands, and Bolsonaro isn’t the only coronavirus positive individual Trump has shaken hands with.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
7 months ago

@Naglfar

It is possible, but remember that Coronavirus has to get in contact with your eyes, ingested or breathed in; so it is definitely a probability albeit not really that high since there are ways to prevent infection, even if you come into contact with an infected individual.

And since Bolsonaro has yet to exhibit the symptoms (coffing, fever, etc) it is not likely he could’ve transmitted the disease through by respiratory means. Which just leaves it up to the handshake and Trump’s hygiene.

Since they were also in a setting where this was a dinner, they all probably washed their hands before interaction. So I’m leaning towards Trump not being infected. Although if other people in his cabinet did get infected, it heightens the probability.

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
7 months ago

Trump did have an emergency hospital visit a couple of days ago, and he seemed like he was having problems breathing during the speech on Wednesday night.

Moggie
Moggie
7 months ago

Trump is a known germophobe. It wouldn’t surprise me if he washes or sanitises as soon as possible after shaking hands.

The UK has postponed local and mayoral elections! Not sure why they didn’t simply make them by postal vote only. Let’s hope democracy resumes sometime.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
7 months ago

Bolsonaro is alleging on Twitter that his second coronavirus test came out negative. He’s not the most honest politician, so take it with a grain of salt. Still I see no purpose to lying if he is gonna start exhibiting symptoms within two weeks.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
7 months ago

Still I see no purpose to lying if he is gonna start exhibiting symptoms within two weeks.

If Trump were in that situation, he’d 100% take the gamble, hoping he’ll be either an asymptomatic case or somehow able to hide the symptoms. Or rather, he’d just be cognitively unable to account for the risk of being caught on the lie.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Lumipuna
Bolsonaro seems similar to Trump in a few ways, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he took the same approach. If Trump had the coronavirus he’d just say he didn’t and his base will believe him.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
7 months ago

As the US epidemic really gets going, Trump will presumably have many (usually brief) encounters with incubating/asymptomatic carriers of the virus, most of whom will not be identified even afterwards. Each will be a very small risk, and there will be likely very little direct/indirect exposure to actively sick people. I wouldn’t bet on him falling sick, even over many months.

Moogue
Moogue
7 months ago

OMG stuck here at my dads recovering from surgery listening to the NJ Governor on Fox News, and Fox News literally cut away from the governor the millisecond he began talking about how important and fortunate it is that NJ has some of the strongest paid sick leave laws in the country, to talk about the “GREAT NEWS”*happydance* of Delta airlines cancelling flights to Europe.

Propaganda less hard, fox news, you fucking tools.

Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

And, in a few minutes (3:00 PM EDT), Dolt 45 will finally be declaring a state of emergency–which I fear he may regard as a blank check to suspend any civil liberties he happens to find inconvenient. Indefinitely.

http://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238478818135945216

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

If Trump does get sick, any hospital visit will be called part 2 of his physical.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Full Metal Ox

I fear he may regard as a blank check to suspend any civil liberties he happens to find inconvenient. Indefinitely.

I’m hoping he doesn’t know about how Abraham Lincoln enforced martial law over Kentucky during the Civil War, otherwise he’ll put martial law in place over the whole country.

@WWTH

If Trump does get sick, any hospital visit will be called part 2 of his physical.

Or it might just be unannounced, like that visit he made to Walter Reed that nobody will say the reason for.

Moogue
Moogue
7 months ago

@Ohlmann

“At that point, discussing with the people who want to minimize it is a waste of time.”

People minimizing this crisis are not stupid, minimization is just another way to deal with anxiety, same as panicking. It’s not a rational way to deal, but then again, no-one’s always rational. I do the same, honestly. But I think most people can change their opinions, I know I did when we started learning more about the virus.

Besides, it’s not only about convincing people, it’s about combating misinformation. Misinformation can kill people right now. They need to be appropiately concerned, otherwise we won’t take this seriously enough to take precautions.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
7 months ago

@Full Metal Ox

And, in a few minutes (3:00 PM EDT), Dolt 45 will finally be declaring a state of emergency–which I fear he may regard as a blank check to suspend any civil liberties he happens to find inconvenient. Indefinitely.

Most likely he will use the occasion to declare illegal immigration a public health hazard, and stage massive raids on sanctuary cities.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

@Moogue: that quote reflect a lot of my frustration against the minimizer. That being said, if someone want to try to change one opinion, he should do so ; the main problem is that trying to argue is quickly taxing and soul-draining.

(the fact I hate people by default probably don’t help)

I have an important personal event next WE with 30ish people from all France. It probably will be done as scheduled ; since I hate the consequence of not doing it, I guess the next best thing will be to self isolate for at least 15 days afterwards, just in case.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Diego Duarte

stage massive raids on sanctuary cities.

Which of course will exacerbate the spread of disease by moving people long distances and forcing grouping of people in tight spaces.

The group I’m most worried about is the people held in the cages at the border. They are at very high risk of coronavirus and are unlikely to receive medical attention at all.

Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

@Naglfar:
@Diego Duarte:

For whatever it might be worth, I hoard toilet paper every autumn; I have mobility issues and use public transportation, which complicates shopping in bad weather.

Suffice to say that I was already well-stocked–which was fortunate, since the Walgreen’s across the street (my default source for toilet paper and other sundries) went out of business at the beginning of this month.)

This sort of emergency stockpiling stampede reveals what kinds of groceries people actually like–Meijer’s was stripped of apples, bananas, carrots, and tomatoes, but plenty of leeks, collards, and kale remained.

Oh, and speaking of the vital importance of information: there’ll be no more public library service in my county until at least April 5th–meaning that people without home Internet access are SOL.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

@Naglfar : also other prisoners of all stripes, be them americans black people imprisoned without serious reasons, french detainees in thoses famously decayed prisons, (french) immigrants in camps waiting for deportations, and of course ouighours and other political detainees in China.

I don’t have good ideas for replacement of prison for at least some crimes, but the detention mania of a lot of countries is also a biological ticking bomb.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Ohlmann
There have been a few instances already reported of sheriffs testing positive after interacting with jailed people, so jails in America are probably already going off.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
7 months ago

Since this thread began, I’ve been thinking up various blaming opportunities for Trump admin/Republicans over this disaster. We can use them to play bingo, or something. In no particular order:

Blame the Left/Democrats, because they stand to gain from this politically. That’s good enough reason to suspect they somehow caused the disaster.

Blame China, because they failed to prevent/stamp out the early epidemic.

Blame “immigration”, because many salt-of-the-earth type Americans have no other concept of international travel. After all, the virus must entered the USA somehow. Probably illegally from Mexico, because people there have ALL the diseases.

Blame immigration, because without the existence of Chinese-American community, who’d bother to travel between US and China?

Blame the lack of sufficiently effective early US government response in the form of travel bans. This is naturally the fault of the Left, because they’re generally opposed to border control.

Blame the Democratic state and local governments that actually try to assess the situation, for fearmongering AND for failing to “keep the numbers down”.

Blame the stock traders for not being loyal to the Trump regime, after everything Republicans have done for the rich people.

Give some winks and nudges to brave truth-tellers who reveal that the whole disaster was deliberately machinated by someone evil (Chinese, Jews, Obama)

….

TOTAL UNEXPECTED WILD CARD

Blame Europe, because we trusted them as fellow civilized white people to not infect us with the China virus. They betrayed our trust, and now whatever happens with the US epidemic is ultimately their fault and not our responsibility. Also, they have now deserved a travel ban, regardless of whether that helps anything any more.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Lumipuna
In case anyone wants it, I made an online bingo card with the likely targets of his blame that you mentioned and a few others he might try to blame.
https://mfbc.us/m/pghcqg?_ga=2.47570663.1592908633.1584131621-1153257929.1584131621

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
7 months ago

@Naglfar and Lumipuna

Turns out he did blame the Democrats and especially the Obama administration. Did you watch the part where he said the previous administration allowed the swine flu to kill 14 thousand people, and when the reporter reminded him that by this time the Obama administration had tested 1 million people, he cut her off entirely?

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Diego Duarte
I haven’t watched yet, but I’m not really surprised. In the past he also has tried to make it look like 9/11 was on Obama’s watch.

Snowberry
Snowberry
7 months ago

I’m seeing conspiracy theories which say something along the lines of this: The global super-elite’s control is coming undone, thanks to the effort of [insert favorite far-right politician here], so the virus was released to cause chaos so they can kill off any threats to their rule largely unnoticed and reassert control after. Not to worry, [favored politician] has a secret plot to stop them.

And then there are the ones who think it’s some sort of hoax which is being used to “genocide” people. I think that they’re trying to imply that it’s just the normal cold or flu and certain groups of people are being executed and everyone told “it was virus”, but I’ve only seen a few examples of that so far and they were barely coherent.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Snowberry

The global super-elite’s control is coming undone, thanks to the effort of [insert favorite far-right politician here], so the virus was released to cause chaos so they can kill off any threats to their rule largely unnoticed and reassert control after. Not to worry, [favored politician] has a secret plot to stop them.

And that fits right in to QAnon conspiracy theories about how Trump is on to the secret globalist satanic elite pedophile plot and is able to counter step each thing they throw at him.

they were barely coherent.

If you were expecting coherence from delusional MAGA conspiracy theorists, I feel you may have set your expectations far too high.

Moggie
Moggie
7 months ago

So proud of my boomer sister. Earlier today, she sent me a multiply-forwarded email of “advice” about the coronavirus, which was mostly bullshit. I was just figuring out how to politely debunk it when she sent a followup saying “turns out that email I sent earlier is bullshit”. So I don’t always have to be the bad guy.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

I am suffering from either the flu or the coronavirus (I have symptoms that are common to both). I am thankful to have took most of the week in telecommute, but still have a bunch of people to warn. And rather obviously, I am a bit anxious.

In particular, a week ago I met a friend, and I have learned yesterday his mother who live with him is under chimiotherapie. For understandable reason I am very, very worried for her.

(and for me ? well, we’ll see, but nothing dramatic for now. We’ll see, but honestly I am much less afraid of dying than of an hospitalization, and I am much less afraid of an hospitalization than of the fear of having contaminated a poor, cancerous elder :x)

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
7 months ago

@Ohlmann
I really feel for you because I have the same fear of harming others. With any luck, this elderly woman will remain free of any virus.

Also with any luck, you’ll be fine and recover on your own. I’m sending you my best wishes. Get well soon!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

Recent report on Covid-19

In summary (as far as I can interpret; but best check for yourselves):

Symptoms are really variable.

Lot of people will be infected but be asymptomatic.

Most contagion seems to be in smaller groups like families rather than large gatherings or just generally being out and about.

Appears to be somewhat less lethal than SARS or MERS.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

Many thanks Kats. Admittely, currently it feel like a pretty bad flu, but not something dangerous for me. Accordingly, I try to focus on not being dangerous to other.

I did take the risk of voting today. There was a self service for hand sanitizer and I brought my own pen. Because while Macron is closer to Obama than Trump, he is still a dangerous state dismantler.

@Alan Robertshaw : yes, while it’s much more dangerous than the flu (by an order of magnitude), it’s also almost one order of magnitude less deadly than the MERS. The problem seem to be the combination of somewhat high transmissibility, somewhat high mortality, and somewhat failed health systems.

Moggie
Moggie
7 months ago

Is the US attempting to profit off the eventual vaccine? There’s this report today:

The Trump administration has offered a German medical company “large sums of money” for exclusive access to a Covid-19 vaccine, German media have reported.

The German government is trying to fight off what it sees as an aggressive takeover bid by the US, the broadsheet Die Welt reports, citing German government circles.

The US president had offered the Tübingen-based biopharmaceutical company CureVac “large sums of money” to gain exclusive access to their work, wrote Die Welt.

According to an anonymous source quoted in the newspaper, Trump was doing everything to secure a vaccine against the coronavirus for the US, “but for the US only”.

I get that the US government’s primary responsibility is to Americans, but it’s not like there will not be enough of this vaccine to go around unless the US secures exclusivity. If CureVac come up with a vaccine, and trials are successful, they can license it to other companies for manufacturing. So, is the US simply thinking of the fabulous profit they could make if they control the vaccine? Or do they intend to ensure that, say, Iran can’t get any?

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Moggie

So, is the US simply thinking of the fabulous profit they could make if they control the vaccine? Or do they intend to ensure that, say, Iran can’t get any?

I’d guess it’s both. In a capitalist state, profit comes before lives, so it seems quite likely they’d try to have a monopoly to turn a profit for Trump and friends. I’m also expecting that the US government would not want to allow China access to a vaccine to “punish” them.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
7 months ago

IDK, maybe Trump thinks he can save months in development schedule if they first develop just enough vaccine for the US, and only then for other countries. He’s probably thinking in terms of some real estate development analogy.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

I think it’s too complicated for him. He want something, he buy the exclusivity. He don’t go farther than that.