By David Futrelle
Big day. Big big day. Lots of shit going on. Discuss.
Also: VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!
I mean, if you’re in the US. If you’re not in the US, I guess don’t vote, unless maybe you’re a citizen abroad but I don’t know how the mechanics of that work exactly.
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@ Jenora
The lesson for wars of 1812 is, if you want to be remembered, you need a good overture.
@ Diego
Warren may be thinking of how much capital the right made out of HRC’s ‘deplorables’ comment. If she attacks Jo Rogan; she implicitly criticises his fan base. She then spends the election campaign fending off questions from the media having to explain why she doesn’t hate ‘ordinary’ Americans.
So whilst people may criticise her silence, there’s, less political flak from an omission rather than an act if you get my drift.
Just got home from my local polling center, where I was proud to vote for Sanders.
I apologize if I came across as overly dismissive of Warren earlier. She is a very good candidate, and everyone should vote for the person they want to see in the White House.
Anyway, congratulations to everyone who voted, whether for Sanders, Warren, Biden, Bloomberg, or even Gabbard.
@Betrayer: please explain how Warren can’t win given the low percentage of delegates thus far awarded. Clearly in a few hours the picture could be different but without Super Tuesday results how are you drawing that conclusion?
@ specialfrog
Do you know what happens with delegates from candidates who drop out? Do they go to the person they endorse; like a de facto STV system; or are they just gone forever?
@Specialffrog
It’s probably based on the currently available polling data, which unfortunately doesn’t bode well for Warren. This has left me in a rough spot, as Warren is my first choice. I’ll still vote for her, but my hopes are not high right now.
@Alan Robertsha
In general, they are required to vote for the candidate that dropped out on the first ballot at the convention, and are free to vote for whoever on later ballots, if it comes to that. There are ways for delegates (at least in some states) to be released or transferred for the first ballot, but the rules differ drastically by state, and I’m not very familiar with them.
Bit O/T; but could someone at around 9:30am and 7:00pm UK time say “You’re cat sitting!”
Betrayer,
The only reason people say she can’t win is because people say she can’t win. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. By the delegate math, there was no reason to drop out before super Tuesday.
And I don’t need your permission to vote for her, thanks.
@Ohlmann
Please don’t. Trump is utterly despiccable and a fascist, but to say that Hitler was better is an insult to the millions who were murdered by the Nazis.
@ tovius
RIght. So so long as no candidate wins on first round it is sort of STV.
So doesn’t that mean it’s alway worth voting for your preferred candidate anyway, regardless of what people say of their chances? If the polls are wrong they win; and if they lose then you haven’t really wasted anything, so long as you trust who they would endorse?
@WWTH
This. I find it very annoying when exit poll data gets out and that influences who later people vote for. This isn’t the first time this has happened, one would hope eventually people would understand.
@Alan Robertshaw
That’s the issue. Most delegates for dropped candidates like Buttigieg will probably transfer to people like Biden. So I don’t really trust who they would endorse.
@Robert:
It’s a shit anthem. I’d like to see it replaced by Laurie Anderson’s “O Superman”.
The reality of modern America is that a lot of people hold bigoted views, be they transphobic, fatphobic, etc. Joe Rogan has an amazing reach among politically alienated young men, the votes of whom (alongside alienated young women) will be crucial to winning this election. I will absolutely make a strategic alliance with Joe Rogan for the purposes of electing a candidate with a substantive pro-trans stance and record of fighting for LGBTQ rights.
I’ve had Warren on my radar for a long time. She worked hard on consumer protections. I used to mention her as my ideal candidate.
To my fellow Warren supporters- “Never the less, she persisted.”
@Jenora:
I’d like to add a bit to this joke
— Ask a Russian about the War of 1812 and they’ll say, ‘Americans weren’t part of that!’ (They also call the major part of the napoleonic wars ‘the War of 1812’, and that is what the overture is about, not the one between the Americans and the British)
@Perry
The whole Bernie-is-pro-LGBTQ seems to be a bit of an exaggeration; I don’t have any record of him being bigoted, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he will actually do anything to help the LGBTQIPA+ community, unlike Warren who has explicitly stated plans. And the whole thing alleges that we are an acceptable sacrifice for everyone else. We do not want to be thrown under the bus.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/us/politics/latest-democratic-polls.html
https://morningconsult.com/2020/01/31/bernie-sanders-has-a-big-lead-with-lgbtq-voters/
https://www.newsweek.com/black-voters-prefer-bernie-sanders-over-all-other-democratic-candidates-new-poll-shows-1489209
Just gonna nip any of this “but but bernie bros everyone for bernie is all white bois” crap at the bud before I see it happening
That shit erases the lgbt and racial minorities who are a significant reason why he’s currently leading the polls.
And with that out of the way I think we can all agree that no matter who we’re voting for we’re all hoping to see Mike Bloomberg get his ass kicked to the curb.
@Naglfar
The whole Bernie-is-pro-LGBTQ seems to be a bit of an exaggeration; I don’t have any record of him being bigoted, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he will actually do anything to help the LGBTQIPA+ community, unlike Warren who has explicitly stated plans.
And the whole thing alleges that we are an acceptable sacrifice for everyone else. We do not want to be thrown under the bus.
I wasn’t trying to imply that at all, but there are certainly some less socially progressive Bernie supporters out there and I’m sorry if any of them were assholes to you. As a transperson, I’ve never been made to feel like that being part of this campaign, mostly because I don’t see the Joe Rogan endorsement as sacrificing trans rights for everyone else. I see Joe Rogan being brought into our broader movement, which includes trans rights. Bernie’s policies haven’t changed, and when I look at my working class status, my student status, my transness, blackness, etc. all together I don’t feel like I’ve had to sacrifice anything.
Lol I haven’t posted a lot on this site so I’m terrible at quoting things still. Sorry bout that.
@Perry
It’s okay this site can sometimes be a bit of a mess. Like not showing my posts for minutes at a time.
@Perry
Fair enough, I can understand how you could feel differently about Bernie. FWIW he’s my second choice, after Warren.
I hadn’t seen the stats on LGBTQ+ and Sanders, so I thank you for bringing that to my attention.
@John
Just caught me by surprise is all. Our official white anthem is gross too, just less openly. By the 3rd verse (which nobody knows or sings, tbf), it’s like ‘and all the slaves died too, that was pretty epic’
@Betrayer
How do you believe that to be true? Like, actually, how did that idea come to be one you subscribe to? Warren and Biden have been sniping at each other fairly regularly since the 1st debate. Like, just last week she did a quick rundown of all the other candidates flaws and Sanders came out best in that (Bloomberg: arrogant, billionaire, entitled, corrupt; Biden: lacking conviction; Sanders: good ideas, but ineffective). I’m actually curious how this talking point gets spread around…
So, putting aside you rendering his misogyny and history of harassment as personal and lacking substance (which gross, but moving on), what do you want to have happened? All the other candidates agree to leave his ‘personal’ baggage on the table outta the goodness of their hearts and focus of their gazes? Biden or whoever else take that shot instead… for some reason? She just repeats the shit Sanders said, cos ‘substance’?Maybe Sanders just do it himself? I mean, could you imagine fans of Sanders or Warren or any non Bloomberg supporter for that matter having a problem if he opened the debate with ‘harassing and demeaning women is bad, Mike’? Fuck, I’d like him way more if he did
Apparently, Liz giving the guy a Special Beam Cannon on live television wasn’t good enough. I simply have trouble seeing how this wasn’t a no win situation for her
All right, now that I have more time.
I don’t believe that Warren staying in the race actually hurts Sanders. It’s no guarantee that more than half of her supporters would go for Sanders, but it is likely that her delegates would if he doesn’t win enough to get the nomination on the first convention ballot.
The faction of Sanders supporters who are pushing for her to drop out and acting like asses to her supporters are not only not helping Sanders, but hurting the whole progressive cause as we do need unity and given that Sanders is the frontrunner, alienating her base is not good.
As an aside, the Berners preaching unity now to try to get Warren out get some serious side eye. Given that his candidacy has brought us back to the bitterness of 2016, it would’ve been way more unifying to coelsce around Warren and Castro in the first place. So, given that the Sanders fan base has let the bully faction go unchecked for literally years now, demanding fealty for the sake of unity now isn’t a good look.
Anyway, back to the convention. It’s actually crucial to the left agenda that we fight corruption. It’s always been the reason we don’t have universal healthcare, living wages and free or affordable college. Elizabeth Warren is the only one with a detailed plan and the only one who gets that if the Democratic nominee wins, they have to hold the Trump administration accountable. If she uses her delegates as leverage to get her anti-corruption plan on the platform, it can only help the movement.
So, there’s the more detailed reason beyond just the sexism that I really need Sanders supporters to stop asking Warren to step aside.
Also, anyone is really on the left should not be dismissive of the anger and disappointment a lot of us feel that a field that started off so diverse has become ever more white and male. Even if you’re supporting a white male, be understanding of how important representation is. If you can grasp it for Star Wars and Doctor Who, you can grasp it for a presidential race.
Let’s not forget Andrew Yang Asian American was a Silicon Valley fuck who didn’t pay his staff
https://www.businessinsider.com/andrew-yang-staffers-furious-over-layoffs-chaotic-campaign-culture-2020-2
Or how Kamala Harris a female black prosecutor was perfectly fine with putting the innocent in jail if it was suitable.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/12/kamala-was-a-cop-black-people-knew-it-first/
and Miriam Williamson is rife with mystic Woo Bullshit
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/where-does-marianne-williamson-actually-stand-on-vaccines.html
And let’s not forget Tulsi Gabbard not voting to Impeach Donald Trump of all People how great that is.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/tulsi-gabbard-lays-low-after-present-impeachment-vote-088266
Would it be much to have a better crop of people? A bit more than this tokenism tier candidacy.