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Super Tuesday open thread

Joe Biden: Does anyone really think this weirdo dingus can beat Trump

By David Futrelle

Big day. Big big day. Lots of shit going on. Discuss.

Also: VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!

I mean, if you’re in the US. If you’re not in the US, I guess don’t vote, unless maybe you’re a citizen abroad but I don’t know how the mechanics of that work exactly.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Diego Duarte
Vaush is a shitshow in numerous ways. In addition to being the epitome of the “one single axis of oppression” view and his misogyny, he’s also hella transphobic. There was that stream which was so transphobic even he took it down (only to then later say that the people criticizing ContraPoints were “degenerates”). Or the time he went on a Twitter tirade about how trans* people need to shut up about misgendering because “he” and “she” are spelled similarly. BreadTube has turned out to be problematic, but he is possibly the worst person in it.
I’m curious what Vaush thinks is feminism, seeing as I’ve only ever heard him criticize the movement.

O/T, but I think this is the first thread in a while to pass 300 comments.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@Naglfar

I didn’t know the guy, but he came across my feed as he criticized the manchild ranting about Parasites winning the Oscar. I thought I was before a fellow leftie, so I subscribed. Didn’t take me long to realize he wasn’t another Shaun or Hbomberguy. His videos are trash.

Not surprised to hear he’s transphobic as well.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I kind of don’t want to click that video. Why am I sociopath?

So, AOC is getting dogpiled for complimenting Warren’s appearance on SNL.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1236533635290890240?s=20

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@WWTH

Because you don’t want to switch over to Bernie, when Bernie Bros would’ve liked you to, and are hurting the progressive movement by not rallying behind the anointed one. Which means Biden and the establishment will defeat progressivism and everybody will suffer as a result.

You inhumane monster, you /s.

That’s more or less the gist of it. Obviously it’s all garbage, because quite a significant number of Warren voters are also going to Biden, so her dropping out doesn’t necessarily favor Sanders. But try to explain nuance to a member of the dirtbag left.

Concerning AOC, MY FUCKING GOD! I remember when they dragged her for opposing Nicolas Maduro down in Venezuela, as if these White ass motherfuckers could even find the country in an unlabelled map, much less speak Spanish.

I was met with similar receptions when I tried to explain the delicate situation down there. This taking into account that I’m familiar with the regional politics, have been following the situation since 1998 and, in my professional role as an immigration attorney, have spoken to many of the 1 million refugees we have received.

But hey, they’re White right? So they know better! And everyone who stands against human rights violations are fascists.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Diego Duarte

quite a significant number of Warren voters are also going to Biden

I’m not going to Biden, but I think I know why some Warren voters favor him over Sanders. Could it maybe, just maybe, have something to do with the way Bernie Bros treated them?

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@Naglfar

Could it maybe, just maybe, have something to do with the way Bernie Bros treated them?

Oh there is definitely a lot of that. Wanton misogyny will all but kill a “progressive” movement. However, lets not kid ourselves, from the comments I’ve been reading in social media a lot of them are also White feminists and disgruntled HRC stans, who dislike the patriarchy but have absolutely no problem with racism and/or imperialism.

Those were never going to vote for Sanders in the first place, and even placed their votes for Biden thinking Warren wasn’t gonna make it. I’ve been told over and over again by these people that I should have no say in the way America picks their leaders, as if Americans hadn’t had a “say” (read here as sponsored coup d’etats) in the way us Latin Americans pick OUR leaders. Not to mention Global Warming is a world-wide affair and with America being the historical top polluter, your decisions affect us whether we want it or not.

As I said before, there is still a long way to go before the Left achieves intersectionality. This blog is one of the few places where you will find people with enough empathy and good sense to try to understand other people’s perspectives.

Which is a damn shame. Everywhere else, they seem to resort to petty tribalism.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 months ago

At ths point I’ll wait to see who get the nomination. Then I’ll get to work on getting him elected and holding his feet to the fire. I have serious reservations about both of them, but that won’t stop me from working to get Drumpf the hell out.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
6 months ago

@Diego
The flag waver is a literal nazi
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/arizona-man-described-as-white-supremacist-drapes-nazi-flag-at-sanders-rally

EDIT:
https://twitter.com/YahooNews/status/1236707423458594820

You and your Coalition Lost, Hillary. You lost the Electoral College Hillary. Your staffers that any other candidate hired almost all failed this entire Nomination Hillary.

https://twitter.com/jamie_agust/status/1236541306790436864

“YOU MEAN TO TELL ME I HAVE BEEN GROVELING THIS WOMAN TO ENDORSE BERNIE SANDERS TO ENSURE MY FAMILY ISN’T DEPORTED UNDER TRUMP, AND SHE HAS BEEN PRACTICING AN SNL SKIT INSTEAD OF CAMPAIGNING IN MICHIGAN!!!“

Beyond Parody Am I right?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Beyond Parody Am I right?

Yes. Going on SNL will not impact whether or not she endorses Bernie, nor will it have any kind of negative impact on the campaign.

However, the flood of vicious attacks on Warren for going on SNL might just drive off people who were still on the fence about who to vote for. I mean, AOC was perhaps trying to do outreach for Bernie by liking that video of Warren and a bunch of stans just couldn’t help themselves. They had to completely undo that outreach.

So yeah, this mess is something that you would normally find in a parody and should not be real.

Also, Sanders stans can miss me with takes about how Warren isn’t doing anything to help the cause now that she’s out of the race. Her offices in Illinois are currently still open and her organizers redirected to assist with a progressive congressional candidate. Because, politics are not just about the presidential race and the progressive movement is not just about Bernie Sanders.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
6 months ago

Okay, so I’m a day or so late and a dollar short, but: I’ve gone over the thread, and honestly? Y’all have been really damn rude to Perry. Perry has done their damndest to explain themselves and Axe and WWTH especially have been really awful to them. I honestly expected better from you two than shouts of “sea lion” and “troll” because someone disagreed with you.

And WWTH: This post (and all the other similar accusations afterwards) was uncalled for as hell. No one here denies sexism exists on the left, or that it played a massive role in Warren’s campaign. But to try and subpost and guilt trip and imply that people aren’t feminist enough, even though NO ONE actually denied anything (but instead pointed out that there are other reasons people might be upset with Warren’s campaign while saying that yes, sexism had a hand in it) is gross as hell.

Oh, and the comparisons between the Sanders base and GG was hella uncalled for, and absolutely inaccurate.

Dial it back. And, for clarification: this isn’t me being sexist and trying to tell a woman she’s being “hysterical”, this is one nonbinary feminist telling another feminist that she’s swinging the wrong damn way.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 months ago

Heat and kitchens. Life is too short to coddle the delicate feelings of trolls.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
6 months ago

@Hippodameia
Yet long enough for you to unironically go “be nice or fuck you.”

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
6 months ago

@Hippo: Thanks for providing another example of the EXACT SHIT I was talking about. Apparently life is also long enough for you to go “be nice to me and coddle my feelings or else you’re a troll and you can go fuck yourself”.

Because that’s not an argument we hear from actual trolls all the time, right? “Feminists are big nasty meanies and that’s why I don’t support women boo hoo.”

You are swinging in the wrong damn direction. You are labeling people who are actively here in good faith who are trying to discuss things with you as a “troll” with “delicate feelings” because they disagreed with you slightly. And y’all want to come out swinging about how mean Burnie Bros are?

Cool your goddamn jets and take a fucking breather. This isn’t a goddamn MMA fight, it’s a blog for fuck’s sake.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 months ago

Cool your goddamn jets and take a fucking breather.

Go take one yourself. WWTH and Axe pushed back on Perry’s bullshit and you didn’t like it, so you attacked them. Swinging the wrong damn way? Go look in the mirror.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
6 months ago

Ah yes, me daring to state why I thought Axe and WWTH were in the wrong and were taking a wrong swing is TOTALLY bad and I’m so in the wrong for daring to call them out for it because y’all declared that Perry was talking bullshit and thus I’ve broken the law!

You’re so right, Hippo! I’ve been a bad, bad feminist for daring to agree with someone that you didn’t like, and even worse, pointing out when you’ve all been unnecessarily shitty to someone who didn’t deserve your anger! I mean, it’s not like this has been an issue before where y’all chased off other people who were absolutely in good faith and circled the wagons to protect yourselves from people who have called you out for it!

Won’t you all pwease forgive me? uwu [/sarcasm]

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 months ago

Now you’re just making me laugh.

Why are you so defensive of Perry?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I’ve skimmed back over the thread and don’t really think I was out of line. But I’ll stop posting in this thread as the discussion hasn’t been productive.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
6 months ago

@Hippodemia
Why have you spent the entire threading egging people to act worse?

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 months ago

WWTH, you weren’t out of line at all. Perry was trolling. But, yeah, this isn’t a productive discussion.

Oogly, perhaps you should take a breather too.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
6 months ago

Woah, woah. Let’s simmer down here. I never called Perry a troll, or anything like that. Didn’t think I was speaking outta turn either. But I get it, emotions run high on occasion. Came in a lil hot? Sure, sorry, Perry

Also, can we not speak for me?

Go take one yourself. WWTH and Axe pushed back on Perry’s bullshit and you didn’t like it, so you attacked them

Come on, y’all. I don’t feel attacked, I don’t think PI is attacking. And even if they were, don’t need anyone to defend me On Here. They’re right about one thing at least, it’s a blog, wagon circling unnecessary. Least of all if I’m one of the wagons. I’ll feel claustrophobic 😛

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
6 months ago

Hippodameia | March 8, 2020 at 7:06 pm
Now you’re just making me laugh.

Why are you so defensive of Perry?

Because I feel like they’ve been wrongfully portrayed as a troll by you and others and were treated like shit because of it?

Because you and WWTH are taking out your anger on someone who was legitimately trying to have a conversation and who will likely never come back to this blog because you egged on this behavior?

Because that kind of behavior makes you a hypocrite when you engaged in discussion upthread talking about the harassment and shitty behavior of Bernie Bros?

Because this isn’t the first time shit like this has happened on this very blog?

Because I personally got pissed off when WWTH tried to pull a “no true scotsman” on everyone reading and tried to make a false claim that people were “denying sexism” and thus implied that we weren’t being proper feminists when Perry in particular bent over backwards to agree with WWTH on that but also provide other reasons why Warren’s campaign wasn’t doing so well?

Who knows, really. It’s a goddamn enigma.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee | March 8, 2020 at 7:07 pm
I’ve skimmed back over the thread and don’t really think I was out of line.

Well, thank you for completely ignoring my criticism of you upthread! It feels so nice to know that you think you’ve done nothing wrong and that the rest of us aren’t having a “productive” discussion when it comes around to pointing out that you’ve been dishing out unfair amounts of asshole behavior to someone.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut
6 months ago

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger | March 8, 2020 at 7:21 pm
Woah, woah. Let’s simmer down here. I never called Perry a troll, or anything like that. Didn’t think I was speaking outta turn either. But I get it, emotions run high on occasion. Came in a lil hot? Sure, sorry, Perry

Also, can we not speak for me?

I was mostly directing my comments towards WWTH, since they were the one who had the most to say about things. I lumped you in since you did seem to also get a little heated with Perry.

I apologize for that Axe, and thank you for your comment.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
6 months ago

All I can say about Perry is I really did not agree with how they handled the points that they wanted to address. They did in fact respond to a comment about most people having sexist biases with a comment denying overt sexism. As far as I can tell, it all went downhill from there. I don’t consider them a troll, more like they were bad at reading the room.

Frankly, I do have certain feelings about some of the posts characterizing Sanders supporters, and in a less clearly heated environment I might have said more about that. However, it’s evident to me that it’s pointless to do that and it would only inflame tensions further. A large chunk of the regular commenters here are leftists who probably support Sanders. It hasn’t escaped my notice that few of them have even bothered to weigh in on any of this. I suppose it could always be a coincidence, but still.

I guess I want to end with what I think is the most pressing issue at the end of the day: Biden is just so fucked up. Every time I read anything about him, somehow he manages to gross me out even further. With his past record, his present statements (a lot of which are blatant lies about his record), and his creepiness toward women, I don’t think it’s too much of an exaggeration to say that the Democratic nomination contest is the real left-right battle. In any other democracy, progressives would gladly unite to at least hold their noses voting for Sanders because it would be just that important to them for Biden to lose. On top of that, I highly doubt that Biden would even beat Trump. I suspect he’d lose to Trump worse than Clinton did. Clinton could at least say she won the popular vote, and without all the voter suppression, she might have gotten the electoral votes, too. With Biden, not only is the voter suppression still a thing, but also… eugh. Not exactly Obama 2. Buttigieg at least supported a public option.

Please don’t let Biden win, because holy shit…

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

Okay everybody chill, what the fuck is even going on here?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the gist of what I got from the argument with Perry was that Sanders trolls were as prominent or obnoxious as the media and others make them out to be, correct?

If that was indeed the message behind the posts, allow me to disagree: it is particularly prevalent and toxic in the Sanders camp. And I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who supports him. I don’t think we can minimize what the way his base conducts organized harassment.

And just to say it out loud, I don’t think Sanders condones this sort of behavior, but I do see it online all the time. Is it on par with GG or Nazis? No, no way in hell. But it is seriously obnoxious seeing a lot of them band together and attack others based on perceived slights.

Just look at the recent twitter thread posted by WWTH where they are harassing AOC over a SNL skit.

I believe Sanders is the candidate with the better policies, but fucking hell can some of his fans get obnoxious. It is possible to support him and the fight against fascism whilst being critical of the idiots trying to hijack the movement to use it as moral grandstanding. And being dismissive of the harassment only serves to divide the Left further.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Diego Duarte

It is possible to support him and the fight against fascism whilst being critical of the idiots trying to hijack the movement to use it as moral grandstanding.

In fact, for any political movement to endure and succeed it is necessary to be self-critical and to respond to said criticism. Otherwise these movements are easy to hijack (i.e. reactionaries on the left) and will fail. By doubling down on stances rather than responding, the movement fails to address internal issues and so those issues grow out of control when they could have been nipped in the bud.

Allandrel
Allandrel
6 months ago

Bernie Bros. strongly remind me of Batman fanboys. You fellow geeks know the ones I mean.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

See also some Doctor Who fans. Especially now these are the current Doctors (yup; plural).

comment image

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
6 months ago

Some of these Sanders guys aren’t much better in meatspace either. Yesterday before I arrived at work, a Sanders supporter ‘asked’ a woman wearing a Trump shirt in line in front of him “hey, I bet you’re real proud of your guy right now”, or words to that effect. (I didn’t witness this; I got it secondhand from my boss.) Woman goes off on him, yelling and screaming obscenities at the guy. The boss thinks the only reason it didn’t get physical was the fact that a third person was in line between them (and undoubtedly not appreciating being the buffer in this).

Eventually everything calmed down enough for the line to start moving again. Once it was the guy’s turn, evidently he ‘apologized’ for starting the fight by saying something along the lines of “oh, I guess I shouldn’t have been exercising my right to free speech right then”, getting a ‘seriously!?!?’! reaction from her. Because how many brains should it take to figure out that a grocery store checkout line isn’t the time and/or place to pull a stunt like that? Besides more than this guy possessed, that is.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@Redsilkphoenix

Nah, there I disagree with you because these fuckers need to be engaged anywhere and everywhere. Nazis and White supremacists need to be constantly reminded that nowhere is a safe space for them, just like they love harassing and assaulting minorities whenever they get the fucking chance.

You don’t win wars by allowing Nazis to normalize their behavior in public spaces.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
6 months ago

@Paradoxy
No big. We prolly won’t even remember this shit happened in a few months. Didn’t reply to their last comment, cos I figured me and Perr were at an impasse anyhow. Happens, shake hands, see em in the next thread. Unstressed

@Redsilk + Diego
Yeah, pick your battlefield wisely (being that person in the middle must suuuck), but nobody wearing Trump swag should be able to step foot outside they house without getting the whole fuckin day ruined for em. Like, as someone who works at a grocery store, I hafta constantly hold down the urge to put muffugas (customers and colleagues unfortunately) on blast. But it’s the exact opposite of my problem if some randos go at it. Fuck em up!

The ‘freeze peach’ bit at the end was kinda wack tho…

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

I get the point Redsilkphoenix is trying to make, but frankly I don’t feel bad if a Trump supporter gets mocked for wearing a Trump shirt. If they were wearing a swastika or a Klan ensignia we’d have no problem mocking them, and Trump’s merchandise is a modern hate symbol.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@Axecalibur

Where it up to me, I would escalate it to violence every single time I estimate I could get away with it. I’m way past sending “strongly worded complaints” to these assholes.

My sister and I got verbally harassed in 2015 by Trumpanzees on two separate occassions for speaking Spanish in public, right after Trump announced his candidacy to the tune of “Mexicans are rapists” speech. I didn’t make anything of it then, but now it’s different.

Unfortunately the time frame of my visits is too short to result in such encounters. But I do hope I get another shot at it.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Diego Duarte

I didn’t make anything of it then, but now it’s different.

I remember in 2015 I thought I could still be friends with Trumpheads. Then said friend dove deeper and deeper into conspiracy theories and bigotry as soon as Trump got elected. I haven’t talked to her in years, but I would imagine she’s quite likely a QAnoner now.

And to think she used to be a Democrat who voted for Obama twice.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

Then said friend dove deeper and deeper into conspiracy theories and bigotry as soon as Trump got elected. I haven’t talked to her in years, but I would imagine she’s quite likely a QAnoner now.

And to think she used to be a Democrat who voted for Obama twice.

I had that same exact experience back in 2015 with another friend from law school. He was pretty liberal and then he went to Houston to work for a time (he flunked his classes and so his parents sent him to do something productive). When he came back he was completely unrecognizable and would post infowars shit on my facebook feed. I thought he was just being a troll, but then he asked me to come by his apartment and I just got a bad vibe off of that.

I remember telling my other friend “If I go missing, this dude murdered me”, cuz the invitation was kind of suspicious.

Little did I know the guy had turned into a Nazi and was trying to recruit me by using various propaganda videos. I spent a really uncomfortable afternoon trying to make him understand that BLM wasn’t a racist movement and that the parties switched platforms in the sixties.

He then crowned the night by saying he wholeheartedly was beginning to think the Holocaust was a hoax.

I never contacted him again.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

@An Impish Pepper:

I guess I want to end with what I think is the most pressing issue at the end of the day: Biden is just so fucked up.

At this point, it’s clearly Sanders or bust:

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/03/democrats-you-really-do-not-want-to-nominate-joe-biden/

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@Surplus

Please don’t suggest another Bernie or Bust. I also think Sanders is the better candidate by far, but if Trump wins he’ll get to name RBG replacement on the SCOTUS. Likewise, the US will spiral down the fascist hellhole once and for all.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Diego Duarte
Bernie or Bust is a very privileged position. It is only possible for people who will be minimally affected by another few years of Trump, who would rather that than compromise their “ideological purity.” I like Bernie better than Biden, but I’ll certainly vote for Biden if he gets the nom.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

You’re misunderstanding. Part of the issue is that Biden is a nearly-guaranteed loser in the general. A nomination of Biden might as well be a nomination of Trump.

By all means, I think if Biden is the nominee everyone should “vote blue no matter who”. But I fully expect it will be too little, too late. The best, and likely the only, chance to stop Trump is now, during the primaries, by ensuring Biden loses.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Surplus
Ah, gotcha. I agree that Biden is unlikely to win and it is best to stop him at the primary stage.

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