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Coronavirus Open Thread

“We’re almost all better now.”

By David Futrelle

Fuck. This is all I can think about these days. It looks like it’s going to be bad. And this is the President’s response:

I”m linking to a bunch of articles I found useful; they’re (almost) all from reputable publications you’ve heard of, though I (as a complete non-expert on these things) can’t vouch for everything in them.

How to Prepare for the Coronavirus (NYT)

Preparing for Coronavirus to Strike the U.S. (Scientific America)

You’re Likely to Get the Coronavirus (The Atlantic)

One-page beginner’s guide to the Wuhan coronavirus (theprepared.com)

Trump’s flailing incompetence makes coronavirus even scarier (Vox)

Is It a Pandemic Yet? (NYT)

Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response (Foreign Policy)

U.S. Health Workers Responding to Coronavirus Lacked Training and Protective Gear, Whistle-Blower Says (NYT)

Pence Will Control All Coronavirus Messaging From Health Officials (NYT)

Let’s Revisit Coronavirus Czar Mike Pence’s History on Public Health Initiatives (Slate)

Oh, and here’s a post that’s totally not helpful, but it’s revealing about the right-wing’s attempts to downplay the virus.

Overhyped Coronavirus Weaponized Against Trump (Rush Limbaugh)

DIscuss! Add links to articles you found helpful! And stop touching your face!

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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rv97
rv97
7 months ago

Capitalism – an elaborate and artificially sustained circus act.

numerobis
numerobis
7 months ago

The idea that Chinese people eat tainted meat and that has caused this outbreak is racist af

It’s about as racist as the idea that the outbreak started in China — meaning it’s a fact, and racists latch onto it to justify their hatred.

The link to wild meat is based on most initial cases being around a particular market, and environmental samples of market show the wild-meat part of the market is where the virus was found the most. It’s particularly likely the origin because that’s how SARS is believed to have jumped from bats into humans. The two viruses are closely related.

China temporarily shut down wild meat markets after SARS. It’s very possible they’ll do it permanently now. Farmed meat is a much less likely source of zoonotic diseases.

Note: racists are also out saying China is hiding data and so on… despite enormous amounts of data coming out of China about the disease. Dozens of journal articles, daily briefings, etc; it’s easy to find this stuff. Meanwhile we now learn the US has failed to even get test kits ready, and fewer than 500 people total have been tested — about as many as Canada has tested.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
7 months ago

Sadly, what Anna said probably IS the unofficial Republican/libertarian line of thought.

Lately I feel like we learned nothing from World War II.

“Life unworthy of life” can’t be how we do things. Not only is it evil and monstrous but it ALSO straight up, demonstrably does not work.

Allandrel
Allandrel
7 months ago

@Anna

I’m disabled, making me someone who “costs resources,” and immuno-compromised, making me especially vulnerable to the coronavirus. So I supposed you’ll be pleased if the coronavirus kills me and frees up all those resources that were being wasted on my dialysis.

In other words, fuck off.

@Alan

My medical condition requires a heavy meat intake. I just love it when you turn each and every thread into talking about what a bad person that makes me, and saying that if my meat-eating causes me to die from the coronavirus I don’t deserve any sympathy is even better. /sarcasm

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

@ David

Fair enough. I respect it’s your site and your rules. And I do have sympathy for people generally. But I have to be honest, unless and until we rethink our relationship with the planet, and the other lives we share it with, then we can expect more of the same. Whether that’s diseases from the meat and dairy industry or ‘natural’ disasters from climate change.

But I’ll shut up now.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
7 months ago

Just stick the flounce, please.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

On a more positive vibe, and by way of brain bleach, here are some cats reacting to those cat face filter things. I’ve put as a link because there’s a bit of an uncanny valley thing and the imagery might be a bit creepy.

What I find really interesting though is how the cats clearly understand that the screen is showing real life.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

Oh, the link vanished. That’s one way of being safe I guess.

Trying again

h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59j5o_lperw

(delete the space between h and t)

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

China, Japan and Korea consume far less meat than the US and considerably less than the UK, so the idea that’s it the fault of Chinese people specifically for being meat consumers doesn’t really make sense to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_consumption

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
7 months ago

@WWTH: Ragdolls are so appealing, aren’t they? My late sister wanted one. She worked for a veterinarian before she died in Oct 2018. She was on the hunt for a ragdoll.

@Hippodameia: So, a man in his 50s succumbed. That’s very disturbing, since I thought the virus was most dangerous to the very young, and the very old.

I plan to work from home as much as possible. I’m grateful to have that option.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
7 months ago

Not sure why my post is gone for whatever reason. Oh well. It was basically three paragraphs about the notion of “unwashed masses” influencing the problematic responses to this epidemic as demonstrated by some of the posts here.

Moggie
Moggie
7 months ago

@Dormousing_it:

So, a man in his 50s succumbed. That’s very disturbing, since I thought the virus was most dangerous to the very young, and the very old.

“a man in his 50s with underlying health problems”

It’s like those groups for whom flu is considered to present a particular risk of causing pneumonia: people over 65, anyone with a weakened immune system, pregnant women, and anyone with certain existing medical conditions like COPD. A marathon-runner in her seventies might be at less risk than a heavy smoker twenty years younger.

Nequam
Nequam
6 months ago

Lately I feel like we learned nothing from World War II.

Oh, we learned something all right– “Never again… unless we run the camps ourselves.”

As for the rest of this thread:
comment image

These are more fun in movies.

Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
6 months ago

Taking precautions for dealing with this is a privilege of those whose work environments actually allow for the ability to do that in the first place. For the rest of us, who have inadequate sick time and/or cannot isolate ourselves, like, oh, most food, retail, or other service workers? We can’t do that. I’m here, staring down the barrel at fifty, in a retail job that doesn’t allow me to isolate myself or give me the sick time to do so. So… yeah. I’m probably fucked.

Mr. Dakry has more sick time, more flexibility, more understanding work environment and better bennies in his job, but he’s also staring down fifty, and he’s a diabetic and with hypertension, both of which are risk factors. So he’s probably in trouble, too. My mother has hit her seventies and is immunocompromised. Do the math.

This is something that is asymptomatic for several days, is fairly easily transmitted, and is probably already spreading even as we speak, with no sign of it showing in a lot of carriers who don’t even know they have it yet and are continuing to spread it. And our bloody wonderful healthcare system makes no accommodations for taking sane precautions for us little people. It’s either isolate ourselves or eat. And this is before we take into account our administration is currently run by heartless fucking idiots.

If we have a pandemic in the USA, and we have the associated mortality, it will be the fault of decades of a toxic work system and of the toxic people that have made it happen over that time. But of course, it will be *our* fault that we couldn’t fly when they plucked every possible feather that could out of our wings.

It’s going to be a shitty epitaph.

Cats In Shiny Hats
Cats In Shiny Hats
6 months ago

I mentioned once that I am a letter carrier. I work apartments, residential, and businesses. I have limited sick leave, and am out in public for a ten hour day four days a week, with an eight hour one to round it all out.

My route in a high homeless area. Homeless people cannot isolate themselves. They have even fewer resources than those of us who have homes, little as those resources are. So we’ll say that four of those ten hours are spent being in the area that the homeless are populating.

I’m pretty certain that there are going to be cases not just in my city but on my route. I’m expecting to get sick because I have a pretty bad immune system.

You know what happens if I don’t eat a rather high percentage of meat? My immune system tanks and I get sicker, faster. I am very tired of people judging me for trying to keep myself as healthy as possible in order to avoid going into crippling debt due to medical bills I can’t afford. Especially right now, expecting to get this virus. If I’m lucky I won’t, but in this world can any of us depend on luck?

Lisa Siebel
Lisa Siebel
6 months ago

Meh, I have some of that problems in smallscale too and I was allowed a bottle of cider for tonight, so:

Some of my friends like to hoard useless masks they got for cheap (they are for patients who are sick and for medical personell who deal with a lot of patients a day and actually know how to properly wear them and dispose of them). Not only does this drive up the price and cause panic, but it will be an improvised bioweapon once the mask is soaked with germy moisture and will probably be touched a couple hundred times then stored of in a handbag, then worn again and disposed of behind a running heater.

Some friends like to have a politically optimized diet (pure natures goodies – noble idea but you gotta do it right and starving your body means becoming more vulnerable) and also some dangerous hobbies like smoking pure mariuana (which is way more damaging to the lung than tabacco). Since we are both kinksters I have offered to attend her birthday party in the nicest and cleanest dress ever and to become basically a kindergarten teacher in cleanliness and level of personal grooming (having good skin health as well as clean skin is a migitating factor against diseases), to brush my hair whenever there is konfetti or smoke in it and to wear one of her damn masks if she really requires me to be that humiliated. In return I want her to visit a party where everyone takes life a bit more relaxed and some will smoke pipes like normal adults. Also I tried in vain to talk her out of some bad eating and sex habits that weaken the body trough microtears and blood loss. I dunno, maybe I am doing something good.

Yet other friends like to drive up my pulse rate by telling me medical stories that invariably start with “I know you will not believe this at first but I read in an american nutrition/medicine/science journal” and usually end on something that is either a dangerous half-truth or outright bunk. I can understand the human impulse to survive but attempting to talk people out of their magic placebo is…hard. I already considered offering people powdered sugar so they can take their non-alleopathic/homeopathic believe in wonders made of sugar and hope and snort them or to throw pies made from the stuff in the faces of especially tough proponents. But that would be a bitchy thing to do. Maybe I’ll just do it a little.

Then of course, there is driving: Some people really like the smell of burning petroleum and they like it so much that people around them have to breathe it in all day. Tom Lehrer sang this a couple of decades back about the issue and it really helps you see movies like an old disney cartoon against nazis and that one other cartoon about how petroleum is gonna save the world in a different light. Also, if you didn’t know it yet, check out: .

Now my country is famous for our wonderfully big sport utility cars which serve as rolling fortresses of doom and also produce a lot of smoke which sometimes manages to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal>obscure business tactics.“.

I could go on as we usually do that sitting in front of a computer and burning up tons of watts just so you can play an egoshooter or watch porn is a bad thing when you could also go off the gridd like a real pre—err good housewife,well prepared gentleman or your standard well prepared agender person or your typical well prepared enby ..but yeah, the housing market and environment and all. I recently got in a fight with a friend in Australia because I we where on vastly different levels of addrenaline, hadn’t talked in ages and where both stressed out. My point is: I would like to run around with you folks and be helpfull but the best thing I can do is to post some stupid jokes in here. The internet sucks and apart from the american healthcare system sucking too —

does anyone share medical books anymore? There’s sites that, you know I recommend reading anything that is not a hyperspecific paper on a very special case that sound like a silver bullet for everything to lay people and does sound like it was written by an actual doctor with an actual plan to treat a disease. For German speaking users, the Pschyrembel can work and if push comes to shove there is also this book)

I think the problem is really the carbon thing with all the energy we waste just to keep us entertained instead of doing the logical thing, getting our houses in order if possible (some people have dirty litter boxes and dust and junk at home, that’s a problem), building communities with neighbors, sharing ressources and stories and taking care of one another. Sure, you can also take a hike to the wilderness if you prefer but if you catch anything there..well you should really feed your mind and pack your back beforehand.

All in all this whole thing and the various levels of paranoia remind me of the HIV pandemic where everyone blaming minorieties helped the dissease spread a lot. I believe that we should stick together, try to become team humanity fighting against a rogue virus and sort out who except trump was to blame for what and what needs to be changed later.

Finally the thing about old people — since I am still not really over it. The horrible thing about old people is that they love their children and sometimes those children can love them right back — sadly, old people sometimes decide that they have had enough out of life and that they are ready to move on because they do not want to become a burden and it’s….incredibly painfull if you are in a position to to help and are prevented from doing that and have to fight to even..argh. Anyway, consider talking to old people in your community if you have the time. They could use the extra attention, it will make you feel a lot better than watching kittens on youtube and they tend to be great listeners and storytellers who carry a wealth of knowledge and wisdom. Also they are often very kind and nice humans. Of course, there is the old-and-bitter-sort too, but it’s very very easy to err here if you do not take the time to get to know them. Health crises are a great opportunity to reconnect to families, to pool ressources and knowledge and to learn how to game the capitalist system (books also work).

Mhm..I hope some of that was usefull in any way. I dunno, writing on a computer is so weird still.

Lisa Siebel
Lisa Siebel
6 months ago

@Cats In Shiny Hats

I totally get where you are coming from. I tried to be vegetarian because it is less of a problem for me but doing fun paramedic work and eating in the timeslots that happen to open up (“oh, you are one of those girls who don’t eat meat, here have the main course without the meat, do you still want the sauce?”) sucked because the one option I had was very often something with lactose which caused my digestion to fail and me to want to throw up. Not very good. Switching back to my standard cat diet (some meat, some fishies, some nibbles of everything and, well milk (yeah, not a real cat) ) helped me a lot.

I mean can be a huge boon if it works for one (less cost, less worries about processing / efficiency etc) but being vegan is hardcore (I try to reduce meats) or impossible (“mother nature” does not love anyone, “she” mercilessly goes with what works and people dying works for her) and hard to do when you start your training on data that was won by killing dogs and when a lot of medicine is bought by animal suffering.

FlyByKiwi
FlyByKiwi
6 months ago

@WWTH ragdolls are SUPER cute. They were my fav kind of cat til i met a British Shorthair. They have so few cares to give, even for a cat! I love that. Also like their super plush teddy bear fur.

We had our first NZ Coronavirus case confirmed on Friday. Caused panic buying in some Auckland supermarkets.

Racist incidents had already been occurring, for weeks.

I wonder how our health system will cope. I am super worried for my Dad, who falls into the vulnerable category. That concerns me most.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
6 months ago

Okay well I didn’t mind at first, but I spent more time on that post than I probably should have, and it actually threw off almost everything else I was doing for the rest of the day in terms of timing. At first I thought maybe the post was intentionally deleted to force people to move on from the general topic, but it seems like a couple of other posts stuck, so I dunno. It was definitely up, and I’d even edited it once. Maybe something happened during the edit.

Anyway, I’d still rather not waste another hour and a half or however long it was retreading everything I said, but my last post also seems a bit lacking for what I wanted to convey, but also a bunch of other people expressed a lot of my reactions to what was being talked about. I just wanted to emphasize how much it bugs me when an event potentially causing lots of casualties happens, and then suddenly the “humans are a cancer” takes pop out. I had a whole explanation as to why I think this kind of thinking is rooted in racism, ableism, and historical revisionism, but again, I’d rather keep this brief. I think most of us have held some version of this belief at some point, and so did I. Nonetheless, ultimately I can’t imagine any progressive movement succeeding at anything if it isn’t life-affirming, especially one dedicated to animal justice. I don’t see how that’s much different from the so-called “red pillers” who missed the little point that Agent Smith is the bad guy and is wrong about humanity.

Also, to be more directly on topic, I hate that, with these epidemics, so much effort goes into asking whether I as an arbitrary individual should be worried about dying. Both yes and no answers lead to problematic implications. It’s completely the wrong question to ask.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

@KindaSortaHarmless:

The way Trump is telling us not to worry, I’m half-worried he’s intentionally withholding funding from various health organizations in exchange for the virus giving him information on Joe Biden. I mean, I know that’s impossible, but damn if I wouldn’t put it past him to try it.

You may know it’s impossible, but does Trump know? :/

@opposablethumbs:

And of course for most people, if you feel ill/are ill you don’t dare not turn up for work because you might not have paid sick leave/any sick leave. Because in some zero-hours jobs you actually have to pay your employer compensation for your absence. And because in some countries of course you can’t afford medical care.
Funny how decimating employment rights endangers society.

And then there’s the creepy surveillance to ding you if you even take ten seconds aside to blow your nose:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/27/21155254/automation-robots-unemployment-jobs-vs-human-google-amazon

In capitalist America, means of production own you!

@Naglfar

The instant Trump says something is safe/under control/not to worry is when you know there is something bad going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pKRP1DmRAU

My biggest worry here though is that this virus will give Trump, and other wanna-be authoritarian rulers around the globe, just the excuse they need to suspend or cancel elections and start clamping down on civil liberties, the latter in the name of “quarantine” of course but just so happening to result in many of their main critics disappearing and marginalized ethnic groups finding themselves confined to ghettos where the disease then runs rampant due to a lack of proper care, while any quarantines for whites with the “right” politics will be in much nicer, less crowded conditions with access to halfway-decent medical care … for those who can afford to pay, of course.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Surplus
Speaking of which: I wonder if QAnon fans think this is part of the “storm.” They must be finding a way to integrate it into their bullshit conspiracy.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

Just an update on the ongoing attempt by my own government to kill me:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/04/onta-f04.html

I don’t think we can get rid of these murderous Tories before October of 2022, so what do I do about this “province-wide roll-out” that will undoubtedly occur earlier in that year?

Should I just start putting my affairs in order on the assumption that I will not survive the following winter to see the spring of 2023? Or is there some remote possibility of survival? Preferably one neither reliant on luck nor on backbreaking levels of hard work.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

Seriously? WSWS links result in being held for moderation? Why the fuck?

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 months ago

Six fucking weeks.

Coronavirus has probably been spreading undetected for six weeks in Washington state, study says

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/01/coronavirus-live-updates/

But we’re a majority Democratic state, especially in western Washington, so I doubt Drumpf cares.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Hippodameia
You have a Democratic governor, how has he been handling the situation? Hoping you all can stay safe and healthy.

kupo
kupo
6 months ago

@An Impish Pepper
FYI, you can email David when your post gets stuck in moderation. Thanks for saying something.

Victorious Parasol
6 months ago

I needed to be reminded of small acts of heroism today.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 months ago

@Naglfar, Inslee declared a state of emergency yesterday and he’s directed all state agencies draw on state resources and do everything reasonably possible to assist affected communities.

I really hope we’ll be able to start doing large-scale testing soon.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 months ago

@Hippodameia:

Six fucking weeks.

Believe it or not, that might be good news. If it went undetected for that long, then all of the cases that initiated within the first four weeks of that must have failed to get the attention of the medical community to the degree that they got diagnosed. Which likely means that all of those cases were too mild for those affected to do more than seek out OTC cold remedies and the like. At the end of that four weeks someone got infected whose case went on to become serious enough to be diagnosed in the past few days. The first such, out of all those in the state who has been exposed over four weeks.

This is (circumstantial, to be sure) evidence that the cases serious enough to diagnose are a small, exceptional group against a background of very many mild cases, and the 2% mortality rate is then grossly overestimated as that’s the mortality rate among cases serious enough to get diagnosed, and that set is a small subset of the total cases.

If most of those exposed become immune, to boot, then this is not going to be nearly as terrible as many are fearing.

But the overreaction to it might be, if it gives Trump license to unleash a Gestapo and/or it blows up the economy sufficiently badly.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@An Impish Pepper

I had a whole explanation as to why I think this kind of thinking is rooted in racism, ableism, and historical revisionism, but again, I’d rather keep this brief.

Please do elaborate, I share a mind with you on that issue as well. As a “Third-World citizen” every time I hear some idiot praising a new epidemic or Climate Change for doing away with dirty, dirty humans, I never fail to notice that these sort of tragedies are always felt significantly worse in the global South, where most impoverished and economically colonized nations reside.

I remember an article from either the WaPo or the NY Post a while back that linked a study more or less confirming that Climate Change denialism was strictly tied to misogyny and racism. I feel one of the most significant reasons why citizens in developped nations simply do not care for these catastrophes is because they are well aware of the fact that they won’t suffer the consequences as badly as developping countries, despite the fact that they are the ones doing the most polluting.

And I bet you half of these people who salivate at the thought of millions of deaths, wouldn’t think “humanity is a cancer!” if it were one of their loved ones catching these viruses or facing these climate catastrophes. So yeah, even the whole liberal, hippie take on “humanity is a cancer” is, IMHO, intrinsically tied with racism.

rv97
rv97
6 months ago

@Diego Duarte

They also think it’ll “purge the world of the unholy”.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Diego Duarte

I remember an article from either the WaPo or the NY Post a while back that linked a study more or less confirming that Climate Change denialism was strictly tied to misogyny and racism.

I recall seeing that article or something similar. It doesn’t surprise me seeing as both views are right wing in nature, and the right wing is built on bigotry and money über alles. And the racism is related because racists wouldn’t care if the people they view as inferior are harmed by climate change.

So yeah, even the whole liberal, hippie take on “humanity is a cancer” is, IMHO, intrinsically tied with racism.

Interestingly, you only seem to hear this take from privileged folks who are unlikely to get sick, never from the people actually affected by the virus. I wonder why that is… /s

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@Naglfar

Interestingly, you only seem to hear this take from privileged folks who are unlikely to get sick, never from the people actually affected by the virus. I wonder why that is… /s

It beyond pisses me off because, despite the fact that we are one of the countries least contributing to Global Warming, we’re among the ones which will be hit the hardest. Peru already leads the entire world on solar radiation, factor in ozone layer depleting (mostly in the South) and guess who gets screwed over?

Not to mention I distinctly recall Peru losing Spring and Autumn over the course of my life, to get about 7 months of Summer and 5 months of Winter (give or take). And that is without the “El Niño” phenomenon that now occurs every other year, when it used to come every 9 to 12. We had to pretty much endure an almost winterless year in 2017.

This might be a shitty take on my part, but I hope the coronavirus keeps the malevolent Boomers, wildly intent on voting for Trump, at home once the election rolls around. We cannot afford to sit around and do nothing and, unfortunately, elections in the US impact us all whether we like it or not.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
6 months ago

@Diego Duartes : in addition to what you have said, no epidemics in the last 100 years have been anywhere near close enough to slow down human expansion. In addition to be racist, the belief that it will weed out manking is stupid, one would need either a disease that kill 70+% of a population, or bank on a country complete collapse to have it significantly alter demographics.

(note : a disease can make a society collapse rather fast. And the current news about how it have made an actual dent in China pollution mean maybe it can do good, but the coronavirus won’t kill enough people to do a change by killing people. Only the panic and change of heart created by it can change anything)

kupo
kupo
6 months ago

And the current news about how it have made an actual dent in China pollution mean maybe it can do good

What, and I cannot stress this enough, the actual fuck

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
6 months ago

@Kupo : by that I mean that if the end result of the epidemics is that mankind at long last stop destroying the planet, then it will have done something good.

That don’t mean the deads will be a good thing. All the dead from the epidemics are a tragedy, and there’s exactly 0 good coming from thoses deaths. Doubly so since a lot of them could have been prevented anyway.

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 months ago

@Diego Duarte
Sorry about the situation in Peru. And I’d imagine the altitude doesn’t help either. Americans feed global warming because the majority of them will not see the effects. And a lot of boomers wouldn’t live to see the worst anyway so they don’t care.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@Ohlmann

Please do mind that when you say something like this:

And the current news about how it have made an actual dent in China pollution mean maybe it can do good, but the coronavirus won’t kill enough people to do a change by killing people.

You do realize that this wording makes it seem like you’re implying that the “good” is directly related to the coronavirus actually killing people?

I get that there’s a “silver lining”, so to speak, regarding China’s pollution levels temporarily plummeting, but let’s address the notion that China is responsible for such pollution in the first place (which is directly tied to what I was saying before concerning racism and developping nations bearing the brunt of the damage for developped nations).

Over 70% of Green House Gas emissions come from manufacturers all over the world. If China is currently leading the world in the emission of GHG (though the USA is still the historical GHG emitter by a large margin) it is because most companies all over the world have taken their manufacturing plants to China. Reason being mainly capitalism: low or unexisting minimum wages, labor security norms, anti-union policies, oversupply of workforce, etc.

To blame China, a developping nation with high levels of income inequality that is all but communist safe in name, for the amount of pollution produced to meet the Western markets’ ridiculous demands is amoral. Once again, westerners get to enjoy cheap products, whereas the social costs of such a rate of production are passed on entirely to the Chinese population.

And that makes the earlier statement seem all the more callous, because it is precisely this same exploited workforce, which does not even make enough to afford a single unit of the products they are producing, that is being the hardest hit by this epidemic.

Capitalism as a whole needs to be abolished. There will never be justice or equality so long as it is allowed to flourish anywhere on this planet.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 months ago

@David

Yeah, let’s not speculate on the “silver linings” of mass death; it’s ghoulish.

Sorry about that. I should clarify though, the drop in pollution has more to do with people being sick and not able to go to work, and other quarantine measures than mass deaths. So my comment wasn’t intended in that way, though I understand how it could be construed as such.

Valentin
Valentin
6 months ago

There is nothing good about coronavirus and no one who dies from it deserves it.

Cats In Shiny Hats
Cats In Shiny Hats
6 months ago

There has been a case of Corona at the Network Distribution Center that supplies my station with parcels.

Lisa Siebel
Lisa Siebel
6 months ago

Uhm @David
Can we talk about Deep green resistance types who seems sorta inhumane and antifeminist to me because they seem to like a lot of those genocidal solutions all of us seem to abhor?

(also they want trans people dead, but that’s not a huge bar to clear as we are seen as a brand new phenomenon and have the magic power to be both as old as the other genders and the eternal hipsters of gender (except for black disabled… trans people who are rarer yet))

In my mind they are part of the logical solution capitalism and the moral philosophy of utilitarism / consequentialism / the standard anglosaxon moral calculus cheaply sneakily stripped of any deontological rules, offers for overpopulation. Do a quick calculus how many humans are optimal for the next hundred n years, have a part of the planet nuked, cross your fingers and hope to live and make a tidy sum, then rebuild. There’s a couple books and text I read from them and they make me sad. Is it ok to talk about them? Their specific brand of anarchy & cruelty is often archieved by radicalizing activist to the point of self-sacrifice and hope for the cataclysm that will finally cull humanity so that the better animals will run around in a bambilike fashion and there will be perfect harmony (and lots of charred skeletons / burnt ash or fertilizer and probably chaos, carnage and little chance to survive for all the animals) and we will not have about overpopulation for a long time. However in discussing this we would have to discuss the uncomfortable topic of women’s power in choosing not to have kids and the arguments are quite sexist. Is it ok to talk about these books like this here?

numerobis
numerobis
6 months ago

Killing 2% of the population at large — mostly elderly and poor — isn’t going to help with climate change at all. Nor is knocking the economy down by 25% for a quarter or two. The people who are dying are not the ones polluting. The economy will bounce right back, there’s just going to be some serious hardship in the short term.

Nanny Oggs Busom
Nanny Oggs Busom
6 months ago

The flu pandemic of 1918-20 killed 6% of the world population, up to 100 million people, and infected many, many more . It killed otherwise healthy people in the range that flu doesn’t normally kill, as well as the very young and the elderly. It didn’t discriminate based on income or class. It wiped out entire families, especially in places where the flu was uncommon.

Let’s hope coronavirus covid-19 isn’t as bad. Nobody likes a pandemic.

Jennifer Wells
Jennifer Wells
6 months ago

Well, It seems that Australias answer to covid-19 is to stockpile toilet paper. People have been getting into fist fights at supermarkets, and today my father could not find any in out small city. I wonder if this is happening in other countries as well.