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music off topic open thread YouTube

Retro French Femmes Dance Party and Open Thread

Brigitte Fontaine

By David Futrelle

Some days I just can’t, when if comes to the misogynists. So instead of one of my regular posts, here are a bunch of fantastic French singer ladies, mostly recording in the 1960s, starting with the amazing Brigitte Fontaine (whose later, less poppy stuff with the Art Ensemble of Chicago is also great).

Oh, and consider this an open thread. Obviously, there’s a lot going on. No trolls.

Fans of Mad Men will recognize this one:

And here’s a ringer: April March is an American who was a tiny baby when most of these songs were released, but who records a lot of songs in French 60s style. She did an English version of this song as well *”Chick Habit”).

If you want more of this kind of music, well, here’s 9 hours of it. Hit “shuffle” for more variety.

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

I like those tunes.

May I crave another title suggestions favour?

This one is an article about undercover investigations and private prosecutions.

The key issues are something called the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act. That covers covert evidence gathering etc; and bringing criminal cases against offenders without getting the authorities involved.

All suggestions as always gratefully received. Cheers.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

Songs are catchy enough. I don’t speak French so I don’t understand the lyrics, but the music is good.

@Alan Robertshaw
A couple suggestions:
Do-It-Yourself Policing
Stay Under the Radar

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Whoa. “Private prosecutions” sounds like something that shouldn’t exist outside of feudalism, cyberpunk dystopias and ancap wet dreams (same diff?) where giant megacorps openly rule the world, and Singapore.

You’re saying the UK has such a thing?

Gee, it sure slid downhill fast if shit like this is going on before the ink is even dry on Brexit.

Kevin
Kevin
1 year ago

@ Surplus

Private prosecutions are nothing new in the UK, but I’ve only ever known about high – profile cases where the authorities have slipped up (and I’m being generous to the authorities here) over high profile homicide investigations. One example was (I believe) the racist murder of black teenager Stephen Lawrence in London in 1993.

Generally they look to me like the cases were effectively crowdfunded, though I could be mistaken. Alan would know a lot more.

gijoel
gijoel
1 year ago

I’ve always like Fleur de saison

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Surplus
Canada allows private prosecutions as well, as do some states in the US (it stopped being allowed in Federal cases here in 1981). It’s just that generally nobody does, because it’s expensive, a pain in the ass, and likely to fail unless you’ve got (or are) a quite qood barrister. Plus, these days the courts have got plenty of prosecuters of their own, and usually if a serious offence has been comitted they’ll look into it/squash your efforts to look into it, depending. I expect Alan’s talking about things like fox hunting, which is illegal these days but not a high priority for the authorities.

occasional reader
occasional reader
1 year ago

Hello.

If you like the old sound, you may also like Françoise Hardy, Colette Renard, Marie-Paule Belle, Les Parisiennes (the old version of the band. But i never heard the new one, so i can not tell for them)… If you like songs a bit harsher in their thematics, there is also Barbara, of course.

Have a nice day.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

“Retro” might be pushing it, but I have a soft spot for Les Rita Mitsouko.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAfPxmqjVaI

No, they aren’t japaneses, and you aren’t having a stroke.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Private prosecutions actually predate public prosecutions here; all this the state getting involved is pretty new-fangled. Bring back the wergeld; that’s what I say!

But they’re not uncommon. For example the RSPCA prosecutes animal cruelty offences as a private prosecutor; and a lot of IP cases are brought by the relevant industries.

There are advantages for activists going down the criminal rather than civil route. You don’t have to pay court fees; if you are successful the defendant has to pay all your costs; but if you lose then the defendant has to try to get their costs back from the state (although it’s a private prosecution; it’s a public act.)

Theoretically activists could just hand over any evidence gathered to the relevant authorities; but a lot of my client base aren’t keen on the police. Also there are advantages in that, unlike for state bodies, it’s easier to get unlawfully obtained evidence admitted. Although it is a bit complex; hence the article. See here for example…

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/hunting/hunt-monitors-are-breaking-human-rights-legislation-293594

People may also find this interesting.

http://womenagainstrape.net/inthemedia/landmark-rape-prosecution-revisited-courtroom-dram

And if you want to get really technical…

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/private-prosecutions

Katamount
1 year ago

Ugh, dealin’ with another obnoxious cold. I think the worst part of colds is just that malaise that leaves you feel like half a functional human being. It’s bad enough to feel that way, but then a huge snowstorm to deal with… man, I wish I could stay home today. Ah well, somehow I find the energy to put in an 8 hour day, write 500-1000 words, practice guitar and fix up old sketches in Photoshop. Even work in some gaming there too.

Could just be the cold making me particularly irritable, but I’m really having it out with Twitter liberals these days. It’s like Bernie Sanders’ recent victories has broken their brains to the point that they’re finding any little silly reason to oppose him. “Russia! Bernie Bros! He’s too old! Too white! Too yelly! Too hot! Too cold!”

I’m really glad that the podcasters I listen to have mmmmostly kept perspective and are like “Yeah, the progressive candidate winning is a good thing” but holy crap, folks like former Majority Report guest Cliff Schecter is losing it. He haaaaates him some Bernie Sanders. I suspect his work on gun safety measures brought him into Bloomberg’s orbit and kept him there, which I guess if he’s a political mercenary, fine, but it’s one of those mask-off moments where you realize you completely misjudged somebody.

And what’s really telling? The standard response isn’t to ignore my replies (or actually address them), it’s to say “Why do you care, CANADIAN? Fix your own country!” I’ve got that response no less than 3 times.

I get that not all progressives are gonna be as taken with Sanders and it’s not like Sanders is perfect on every issue, but the progressive candidate racking up victories should be a cause for celebration if you care about making people’s lives better… right? Apparently not for the very-online Russia-obsessed liberals who believe Bernie Sanders is just like Donald Trump because they’re loud old white dudes. It’s just flabbergasting to me. If they’re not for the policy goals Bernie stands for… what are they for?

I’m really learning a lot about who people are underneath the rhetoric. I’m not mad, just… disappointed.

comment image

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
1 year ago

Seconding the suggestion of some Francoise Hardy:
https://youtu.be/fywooUlcXXc

https://youtu.be/s7wIzUOaJ4I

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
1 year ago

Not French, but punk marching band Mucca Pazza do a great instrumental version of “Chick Habit”:
https://youtu.be/2NiLFS2VlU4

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

O/T: A kind of interesting set of twitter screenshots about Pete Buttigieg:comment imagecomment imagecomment imagecomment image

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

@Katamount:

Ugh, dealin’ with another obnoxious cold. I think the worst part of colds is just that malaise that leaves you feel like half a functional human being. It’s bad enough to feel that way, but then a huge snowstorm to deal with…

Well, at least you’re not dealing with my local power company, which after a month of being on its best behavior has suddenly decided to start capriciously switching random things off and on at random times again for no good reason.

Katamount
1 year ago

@Surplus

Well, at least you’re not dealing with my local power company, which after a month of being on its best behavior has suddenly decided to start capriciously switching random things off and on at random times again for no good reason.

Yeah, a repeat of 2013 would just be the icing on the cake. 😀

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 year ago

I had a French music video introduced to me by a friend who said ‘If you want a French cartoon mouse, this woman has the perfect voice:’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3fhav0K9cg
It’s an a capella duet cover of a Joe Dassin song.

Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

Sharing some good news.

My baby sister is back home and NOT in the country where they just reported a case of the coronavirus.

One of these days I’ll remember to actually put the RETURN DATE on the calendar for a loved one who’s traveling.

Tovius
1 year ago

@Ohlmann
Well that CGI is retro, if nothing else.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

Well today my work email saw fit to bless me at 6:06AM with pictures of animals on fire, without any warning whatsoever that the email was going to contain graphic pictures of animals on fire. I was up at that time to see it because of a horrible stomach flu I was already feeling awful from. I sent in what I hope was a blistering complaint email. What even the fuck.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

The coronvirus is spreading rapidly through Okinawa Japan so my husband base is like on defcon 4 disease epidemic panic. He’s reassuring me that he’s going to be fine “U.S. protects its property” and all. But basically the vacation I was planning in June is probably not going to happen depending on the state of things.

Trying to stay positive but I’m really missing him and was really looking forward to our get away.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
1 year ago

I broke off my first relationship ever on Saturday because there were some things about him that were beginning to scare me. Nothing he actually did to me (not overtly anyway) but things I knew he was capable of, because he told me. Coupled with a knowledge of his abusive upbringing (and him insisting that it hadn’t affected him, he didn’t need therapy, he was fine just fiiiiiine) and a sense of deep dread from looking into his eyes, I basically panicked and cut it off over the phone. Looking back, I think I stand by my decision. He was a troubled soul with a refusal to introspect himself, far more insecure than he wanted to let on (he believed that showing insecurity was “weakness” on his behalf, though he didn’t think the same of others). He had demons that I sensed in my gut would one day rise up and overwhelm him, hurting me in the process – I think this was the driving factor behind my action to be honest. Also I have anxious attachment style and a hunger for external validation so yeah, there was an objective risk of me becoming too emotionally enmeshed with him and the relationship turning into a train wreck. He couldn’t see it at the time, so the breakup was a pretty big shock to him, but I could no longer ignore the darkness I sensed in him.

It’s a crying shame, because I have also seen the goodness in him (don’t even think about making a Star Wars reference yet, hear me out!). He’s a beautiful soul underneath, and I held on to that for months. I still believe it. He was good to me, and I was attracted to him, and I really didn’t give him enough credit I think when we did that whole “wrapping up” postmortem thing. I could tell he was hurt and there were some ugly sparks during that conversation but we did end it with a mutual “thanks for the memories, I’ll miss you.”

In other ways he really wanted to escape his background, and I think he saw me as an inspiration. So I feel guilty for calling it off out of the blue. I also did it in the worst way possible, because I was acting mostly out of fear. I said things that contradicted other things I’d said in the relationship. I was insensitive and at one point accidentally insulting. I babbled some shit that made it sound like I hadn’t loved him at all, which wasn’t actually true. I wasn’t as passionate as him, sure, but it was a fairly new relationship (and he had a faster pace in mind than I did, but I digress). I tend to connect with people on a quieter, deeper level. I don’t do head over heels. Basically, instead of landing the plane in a reasonable manner I nosedived it into a mountain. I feel terrible for it.

And now, because of course, I really want to message him. One of the last things he said was that even though he didn’t normally believe in exes being friends he’d keep the line open for me. He hasn’t blocked me, I haven’t blocked him. I said I might message him. It hasn’t even been a week and I want to tell him I’m sorry for the way I handled things, that I genuinely mean it when I said I wanted him to be happy, I’d like to hear updates from him and tell him mine. I think he thinks that I had a sudden change of heart and turned into an ice queen, but the truth is I did feel a connection to him and I’m also struggling to get over what there was. I dated him for a reason!

I don’t know if I should, what to say, or when to do it if ever. It’s eating me alive.

@Big Titty Demon

What the fuck indeed! Who does that??

Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

@Lainy

I hope all is well with your husband, and that he stays well until he’s home with you again.

Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse
Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse
1 year ago

@sunnysombrera

I really don’t suggest contacting your ex. Yes, it seems likely from what you say that it will get stuck in your head, but if you felt unsafe then please believe yourself. Your instincts just told you “The call is coming from inside the house” and you did yourself a great service by getting out. I know it can be difficult, but please try not to second guess decisions that you made to keep you safe. More often than not they’re the right choice (especially given the myriad amount of red flags your ex has raised.)

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

@Sunnnysombrera : I prefer to not give advice, but good luck nonetheless.

Viscaria
Viscaria
1 year ago

@Sunnysombrera

I think breaking up with someone is a skill that gets better with experience, like everything else. It sounds like your breakup probably won’t go down in the books as one of the most masterful breakups in history, but that’s okay, and it makes sense since it was your first time doing a really hard thing. I’m also not sure it was as bad as you think it was. If you were that hurtful, why would he leave the door open for contact?

I would suggest not contacting him to apologize for how it went down. Give both of you some time to get used to not having the relationship anymore.

Also, you didn’t really directly say anything about this, but I thought I saw shades of it in some of what you said, so I want to address it. If I’m misreading you, I’m sorry, and please feel free to ignore this bit.

You don’t need to have a good enough reason for it to be okay to get out of a relationship. It sounds like this guy might have been dangerous, and your instincts were telling you to leave, and it’s really good that you listened to those instincts. However, if you find yourself thinking, “Well, but he never actually hurt me,” and “Maybe I misjudged him and that wasn’t fair,” it is still okay that you broke up with him. You don’t owe it to anybody to stay with them until they have fully and verifiably showed themselves to be scum. Something in you said that you do not want to be with this guy anymore, and that’s enough.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ Vicky P

That must he such a relief! I’m so happy for you.

@ Lainy

That’s a real bummer; but you will have tons of other opportunities to see your blokey and it’s probably better to be cautious than risk the virus.

@ sunnysombrera

I really feel for you. There’s lots I could say; I’ve been around the block a few times. But I’ll just go with this: you owe nobody a relationship; and if you feel uncomfortable it’s fine to call it a day. You seem to have handled things perfectly properly and as near to amicably as these things can be. But you mustn’t beat yourself up. Obviously it can suck when a relationship breaks down; but you don’t need a project, you’re not a free therapist, and unfortunately it’s for him to deal with any demons he may have. Not your circus; not your monkeys.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

@sunnysombrera

Right!? It was in celebration(?) of the lifting of some media restrictions on wildfire photographers (I think), but warn people of that shit so they don’t have to look. Geez.

Re: your ex

[…] because there were some things about him that were beginning to scare me. Nothing he actually did to me (not overtly anyway) but things I knew he was capable of, because he told me.

When someone tells you they are capable of some bad shit, believe them. Especially if there were non-overt things involved, don’t let it get to the overt stage.

Also I 100% stand with Viscaria. Even if he would have still been “fine,” you don’t need a “better” reason to break up. You don’t owe it to him to date him. Even just “I don’t want to be with you anymore” is a good enough reason, all by itself.

As for contacting him, I personally would recommend against it.

@Lainy

Apparently the SARS vaccine has quite a bit of cross-reactivity with this coronavirus, so it’s possible they may start testing it it to adapt it as a vaccine for Covid-19.

Just to give a bit of hope, cos otherwise I got nothing and that’s pretty sucky. Sorry. :/

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Sunnysombrera

I think you did the right thing and you shouldn’t feel guilty. My mom’s first husband was a piece of shit abuser. But he didn’t start out that way. And he grew up watching his dad belittle and beat his mother. He didn’t want to be like his father. He fought it for a long time actually. Long enough that my mother married him and had long relationship with him. He didn’t start hitting her until after my brother was born, because he figured since she had a child with him now, she wouldn’t leave him. The first time he hit her, she took my brother and ran. She told him that’s what she would do if he ever hit her since she knew how his father was. It still shocked the hell out of him when he did it.

That being said, my brother is not like biological father, despite that man being in his life for 12 years. My grand father was abused heavily by his father, and he did not turn out like his father. My husband is not his father. They do choose if they repeat that cycle of abuse, and if he is doing nothing to try and stop what was forming inside him, it’s better for you to run. Maybe that will even inspire him to go to some therapy and heal from his trauma so he can love someone the right way and destroy the cycle he was born into. But that’s not your respobility to worry about, you took care of yourself and that’s what you always should do.

My husband once told me that it took the first girl he ever fell for leaving him because he was showing behaviors that he learned from his up bringing, for him to finally recognize them and change them. Because he really doesn’t want that cycle to continue. I hope that idea will give you some comfort.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
1 year ago

My husband once told me that it took the first girl he ever fell for leaving him because he was showing behaviors that he learned from his up bringing, for him to finally recognize them and change them. Because he really doesn’t want that cycle to continue. I hope that idea will give you some comfort.

It does, thank you, though I didn’t actually tell him I was afraid he’d turn toxic. I cycled through a lot of, well, what had gone through my mind but ultimately I concluded it with “I love you but not enough to continue the relationship” and “this is a trust thing; I’m afraid you’ll do to me what you did to them; fear has overtaken my positive feelings for you; I get a really bad gut feeling about the relationship and you.” Just…a load of babbling really. Sadly he intepreted it not as a fear of him but an anxiety of relationships in general. Still, like I said, the conversation ended agreeably.

He is a big overthinker. Maybe he will stumble onto something resembling what your husband realised. Maybe he’ll come to a different conclusion. All I can do is hope he chooses a healthy, happy path for himself.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

He is a big overthinker. Maybe he will stumble onto something resembling what your husband realised. Maybe he’ll come to a different conclusion. All I can do is hope he chooses a healthy, happy path for himself.

So is my husband, we are very similar in that regard. it’s part of the reason he was able to see his negative traits and over come them. If this guy really doesn’t want to go down the same path as his family, he’ll see those traits as well and work on them. It can be really hard to see those traits because the first thing the person has to do is admit to themselves that they are similar to the person who’s hurt them for years. No one wants to do that but hopefully he’ll find his own way.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

Completely OT, but

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/feb/27/female-wrestler-wins-state-title-high-school-heaven-fitch

Check out the still photo of the winners on the podium! The expression on her face and the expressions on the faces of nos. 2, 3 and 4 … I have to admit, it’s fucking hilarious.

Also, watch the video clip of her winning her final bout.

First thing that’s made me really smile all day 🙂

(and sorry, I tried to link to the image but couldn’t get it to work :-\ but I promise it’s worth seeing. Maybe someone else less of a klutz than I am can link the still and/or the clip properly?)

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
1 year ago

I honestly think I’ve sent about 100 applications this month and still no new job.

I need to get a better one I don’t even get 200 dollars a paycheck anymore. 🙁

Nequam
Nequam
1 year ago

@Katamount I have a swell recipe for hot and sour chicken noodle soup. It could probably be easily adapted to be vegetarian/vegan. If you’re interested (or if anyone else is, for that matter) I’ll post it here.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Katamount,

I hope you have the same amount of ire and disappoint for the Sanders supporters who have flooded Elizabeth Warren’s twitter mentions (and those of her supporters) with snake emojis, call her supporters neolib shills who hate poor people and are talking about primarying her for Senate all because she’s dared to run for president at the same time him.

I don’t hate Bernie myself, but I don’t get how you can expect everyone who’ve been abused and harassed by his supporters to all be eager to fall in line behind him.

Also, it’s been explained to you how many the fuck times why there are legit reasons to have reservations about him and you’re still trying to insinuate that those who do aren’t legitimately progressive? I’m really not pleased about this gaslighting white male bullshit you’re pulling and even if nobody takes my side here, I’m really not going to put up with it here.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@WWTH
The naked misogyny of Bernie Bros is on display when they attack a candidate who has extremely similar views just because she’s a woman.
And regarding poor people, while I don’t think Bernie is the worst (he’s definitely not as bad as Trump), I think Warren does much better with issues of privilege and intersectionality in a way that Sanders fails, so since many people in poverty are of oppressed groups Warren would probably be better for the poor.

@Katamount
I understand that you are frustrated, but a lot of what you said seems rather…reductive of the reality. I feel like we’ve had this conversation before, and it’s probably best not to retread the same ground.

Viscaria
Viscaria
1 year ago

I hope it’s okay to do a little life update?

I have been having some rough times emotionally because I really want to have kids, but I don’t feel I can make a good home for them or be a good parent to them, so we’re not trying. It’s kind of taking up a lot of room in my brain. Seeing kids doing kid things is enough to make me all teary. It’s hard. I wish I could get my shit together.

I also have some career stuff that I can’t really explain, but I’m thinking of leaving my current job, and what’s holding me back is yet another case of not knowing if I can handle it because, again, I don’t have my shit together. My shit is very much not together is my overall theme.

In better news, there is a 21-year-old kitty sleeping on my belly right now. He’s pretty spry for a furface his age. He loves cuddles.

tim gueguen
1 year ago

Turning things back to music for a bit for whatever reason YouTube recommended this to me early this morning.

Even before I listened I was sure I had seen the video before. Sure enough I had, probably 35 or more years ago, and probably only once. I’ve had a distorted version of the chorus pop up occasionally in my head ever since. Presumably it turned up on whatever Canadian TV video show I saw it on because the producer thought it looked cool, as Spanish language pop tunes didn’t turn up on the Canadian charts in those days.

Although the lyrics are in Spanish Righeira were an Italian duo.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@sunnysombrera –

My instinct would be not to contact him now when feelings are still fraught. I wouldn’t necessarily say never, I wouldn’t know, but your emotional safety is important.

I was surprised by how much sadness I had about my last break-up 5 years ago, which wasn’t super fraught (what is with me and that word today?) – it was more that we didn’t communicate well together – but I was still left wondering, “Did I say that badly? Why did I make him think this?”

@Viscaria –

Sending virtual support as well. “Not having things together” is kind of life for me, but for some things it’s harder than others.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

The Bernie-bros-behaving-badly thing might be at least partially down to these two things:

1. Russian bots, and possibly some bandwagon effect started from there. There is credible evidence that Russia is trying to meddle in the Dem primary, with the goal of creating division and acrimony.

2. Warren promised not to take superPAC money, and recently broke that promise. Some backlash is to be expected in response to that, and some I-told-you-soing by the supporters of other candidates.

That being said, it does not excuse any harassing or over-the-top behavior from human Sanders supporters.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Surplus

Russian bots, and possibly some bandwagon effect started from there.

Maybe there are some bots involved, but I feel like chalking the whole thing up to bots seems like a convenient way out. The truth is, there definitely are actual bros out there, and it’s okay to like Bernie, but if you like Bernie you should also acknowledge the issues WWTH and I mentioned and understand why some people might not like him as much after what they’ve been through.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Bernie Sanders supporters can’t mock the idea that Russia attacked our election in 2016 and this year and then turn around and blame some the toxic faction of his supporters on bots.

Some of them may very well be, as we know the Kremlin wants chaos and use him to split the Democrats and the progressives. But I thought saying that makes one a Russia obsessed neolib or whatever?

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
1 year ago

@Viscaria

Internet hugs to you (and thank you for your support re: my breakup). Is the career thing an issue of imposter syndrome or “I can’t handle uprooting myself right now”?

Psiana
Psiana
1 year ago

I don’t believe that Russia has nearly as much influence as it is given credit. People tend to behave very tribal and are more harsh on platforms were they don’t face consequences for their behavior.
I also do think that there is more conflict between the supporters of different candidates because they represent different ideologies.

Also it is bizarre that the misbehavior of very few supporters is used so heavily against Sanders right now.
The term Bro was already used against Obama supporters in 2008 by Clinton. And to me it always seemed to be a very weak argument. Because instead of actually criticising the candidate, their supporters are getting smeared and also a large part of them misgendered.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

I don’t know if this is relevant to the discussion, but it seems to cover some of the themes raised.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/28/elizabeth-warren-campaign-not-dead

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Also, Hillary Clinton was mocked (and still is) by Bernie Bros for trying to warn us about Russian interference in 2016.

Elizabeth Warren actually understands that this not just a simple issue of Putin being bad, but of a larger global corruption problem. After all, the attack was only successful because the Kremlin and the mafia were able to exploit lax regulations and politicians who can lap up blood money without experiencing any consequences. Part of her anti-corruption plan is combating disinformation. Who mocked this? In a way that mimicked right wing freeze peach arguments no less? Bernie stans.

Who then turned and whined when Bloomberg used disinformation against Bernie? I think we know.

I’m legit concerned that when the Kremlin ops turn against Bernie, and if they damn sure will if he wins the nomination because Putin wants Trump to win, the Sanders camp is going to have no idea how to combat it. Between foreign interference and domestic voter suppression, this is not going to be a free and fair election and gaslighting, mocking or ignoring the people who are warning about is not going to fucking help.

I do realize it’s a minority of Sanders supporters who are like this. However, it stems partially from the naivety of Sanders when it comes to this threat. He still has a bad taste in his mouth from cold war red baiting I guess, but the Russian government is a far right oligarchy and pretending not to get that is seriously dangerous.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Psiana,

The reason people talk about Bernie bros is because so many people who made even a mild criticism of him have been getting swarmed with hate. And it’s very often women and POC who bear the brunt of it. Are they all liars?

I mostly already covered the Russia thing, but the assumption that you and people like you can’t be influenced by disinformation is dangerous and false. Anyone can be influenced. In fact, I know there’s studies showing that people who believe they can be influenced by media are actually more susceptible than those who know they can be.

Anyway. Like I said, Bernie is my 2nd choice and I like his policies mostly. But I don’t get how denying there’s a problem with the stanbase and denying there’s an issue with disinformation coming from both the Kremlin and corrupt wealthy westerners is going to help the progressive movement. Nor do I get the idea that candidates shouldn’t be critiqued or held accountable. They all should be. I haven’t been defending Warren on the Native American thing.

Random Q
Random Q
1 year ago

Since this is off-topic and I can’t think of a place I would get better support, on-line or off besides my boyfriend (and it’s unfair for him to do all this!): I got myself to a doctor for a nasty cold I’ve been fighting for months. Five straight weeks of work finally broke me down and I missed two days sick. The third day I would either need to be at work or have a note. And that was when I realized that my depression had kicked into overdrive, I wasn’t taking care of myself, eating or showering or doing any of that.

So, I sucked up my courage and brought up my depression to the doctor. He was wonderful! Is helping me find a therapist, I’ve got antibiotics, a doctor’s note forbidding me from working until Saturday. And antidepressants! The doctor and nurse were so understanding and that was probably one of the biggest helps so far! They didn’t mock me or make me sound ‘insane’.

I’m feeling hopeful, as long as I keep up on self-care. The thing that scares me most right now is that come November, it will all have been for nothing.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@WWTH

Nor do I get the idea that candidates shouldn’t be critiqued or held accountable.

This is my biggest issue with the culture of “stanning.” Stans refuse to actually critique their idols, and they get a polarized view in which their beloved is perfect, and anyone criticizing them is just an evil hater or something like that. We saw it exemplified with the ContraPoints thing over the last few months when all her stans saw any criticism of her as a personal attack, and Bernie Bros are doing the same thing, but in a way that has much greater potential consequences. People are people, no one’s perfect, and people need to be able to critique people they like and to see flaws in their heroes.

@Random Q
It’s good to hear that you are feeling a bit better and are taking care of yourself. Hopefully you can continue to recover. We are here for you.

Psiana
Psiana
1 year ago

@WWTH

Ok but i never called women or PoC liars, i would never deny anyone that they have experienced bigotry.
And i never said that there is not a problem with disinformation.
Also this was not an attack against Warren or her supporters.

Viscaria
Viscaria
1 year ago

@sunnysombrera

I can give you the world’s most vague run-down of the situation, if you’ll indulge me. I apologize for the length.

In essence, my job involves receiving and completing assignments within deadlines. While rush jobs are accepted across the industry, most work is completed on a regular turnaround. My firm’s regular turnaround is longer than the one for the firm I am thinking about offering my services to. My concern is I have missed some deadlines occasionally where I work now. One time it happened when I wasn’t even very busy because my ADHD brain was like, “How about instead of working you just stare blankly at the computer until you’re running up against the deadline lololololol.”

My firm has been bought out by a huge US beastie. This is the second time in my working life that I have been part of a similar acquisition, and I’m not into it. Given the choice between having to deal with that or working for a small local firm, all else being equal, I would pick the small local firm. If the choice is big you’re-just-a-number-to-me corporation vs small firm but feeling overworked all the time, that’s a bit trickier. And if the choice is actually stay where I am now and be annoyed or move to another firm and be fired for regularly failing to meet deadlines, then I should definitely stay where I am.