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“Women do not have a sex drive” amateur woman-explainer on Reddit asserts

We’re dealing with another galaxy-brained thinker here

By David Futrelle

Never before, it seems, have so many men so confidently answered the question “what do women want” with zero input from actual women. At least when Freud infamously asked this question he admitted he didn’t really know the answer.

Not so the men of the Red Pill subreddit today, who regularly deliver up massive walls of text purporting to explain how these mysterious women work. And they are pretty much always spectacularly wrong.

Consider, for example, the gentleman known as bsutansalt, a mod of the Red Pill subreddit, who recently graced his Red Pill brethren with a repost of one of his, er, classic posts, titled “Women Do Not Have a ‘Sex Drive.” In it he argues that, well, women don’t have a sex drive, but instead engage in sex only because it’s a way for them to acquire “desirable male attention.”

As he sees it,

Female sexuality is REACTIVE – it’s not the dull aching horniness that men experience. It is rapid-onset response to desirable male attention.

The price of male attention is sex. Sex is the glue that holds male attraction firmly in place.

Ipso facto women are willing to pay the sex price and a natural feedback loop is created; male attention makes her “sexual”, the sex engenders more attention from the male, the attention makes her FEEL “sexual”, and so on.

They fuck because they want to FEEL sexual. Not because they want sex.

Now I don’t need to tell you that there is, well, a great deal of evidence suggesting otherwise. Like, for example, if you’re a woman, for example, you may have noticed that you do in fact get horny on a fairly regular basis.

Not that bsutansalt really cares what goes on inside a woman’s head. “What do women THINK makes them feel sexual,” he asks himself at one point, offering up the answer

Who cares. Ask 10 of them once a day for a week and get 19182 different responses. Listen to their advice and get 0 sex.

In bsutansalt’s universe, men and women are from planets even more distinct than Venus and Mars. The goal of every woman, he assers,

is to maximally exploit her youth (in other words beauty) for maximal desirable male attention.

Men, by contrast,

want to fuck for fucking’s sake. Some trade resources and their dignity for this (gradually rarer) privilege – we call them beta males. Others learn to exploit the desire for their attention. Be the latter guy.

Hoo boy.

Even if bsutansalt has managed to convince himself that straight women never fuck for fucking’s sake, and are always in it for “sexy attention,” one wonders how he explains it when women’s sexual activity involves no male attention at all. I mean, to point out something that is obvious to everyone except for Red Pill men, women masturbate. Women use sex toys, including some really really weird ones. Women watch porn. Women read (and write) stories about the brothers on the show Supernatural boning each other. None of these things require “desirable male attention” in order to happen.

This may comes as a shock to some Red Pill men, but there are also some women who have sex with one another. Do lesbians somehow exude “desirable male attention” — or even just “desirable female attention” — that they can trade with one another in bed? Do women actually fuck each other, or do they just lie there “feeling sexual” in each other’s presence?

I’m afraid that bsutansalt’s galaxy brain might just explode if he were forced to consider these possibilities.

H/T — Thanks to r/TheBluePill for highlighting this epic OP

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
11 months ago

(facepalm) Even someone who’s only learned about sex from porn would know that women can have sex drives.

renewal
renewal
11 months ago

shades of “the female orgasm is a myth, or I’d have seen one by now”

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
11 months ago

Female sexuality is REACTIVE – it’s not the dull aching horniness that men experience. It is rapid-onset response to desirable male attention.

I need to know what role Brad Pitt plays in all of this. Is he really giving all women desirable male attention? Is that why, according to very reliable manospherian sources, all women adore him? Why he can do no wrong? Why even if he does, he’s so handsome that we’ll forgive him anything?

Oh wait — do we all love him because he appears to be looking from the movie screen straight at us? Wow, we’re gullible.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

there are also some women who have sex with one another.

The MGTOWs would beg to differ (as would the incels).

One thing I always found contradictory is, if women have no sex drive then why do they all supposedly gravitate toward Chads? Well, alt right dipshits were never known for ideological consistency.

Once again, for the manosphere boys in the back: many women like sex, just not with you.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
11 months ago

@Naglfar

Once again, for the manosphere boys in the back: many women like sex, just not with you.

Allow me to add that many women like to drink coffee, just not with a manospherian.

Many women like to take long walks, just not with a manospherian.

Oh hell, all women like to breathe, but the number of them who would like to breathe next to a manospherian? Vanishingly small.

Nequam
Nequam
11 months ago

I’m afraid that bsutansalt’s galaxy brain might just explode…

Even if we were that lucky he’s probably mostly running off the brainstem anyway.

Lainy
Lainy
11 months ago

I’ll have to tell my husband and let him know

epitome of incomprehensibility

Hahaha sure.

Not that bsutansalt really cares what goes on inside a woman’s head. “What do women THINK makes them feel sexual,” he asks himself at one point, offering up the answer

Who cares. Ask 10 of them once a day for a week and get 19182 different responses.

TIL that if women aren’t turned on by the same things all the time, they don’t have a sex drive.

Men, by contrast, are always all the same in their sexual desires and preferences. /s

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
11 months ago

That is indeed a weird sex toy.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

They fuck because they want to FEEL sexual. Not because they want sex.

This isn’t a sentiment that’s exclusive to the red pill community. It’s a common belief, even if it’s not usually so plainly stated. The media/advertizing narrative about female sexuality is about looking sexy, catering to the male gaze.

This is one of those depressing times that I realize that manosphere ideology isn’t an aberration in our culture, it’s just an extreme end point of attitudes towards women.

Ugh. I need to go to bed.

comment image

Snowberry
Snowberry
11 months ago

I just got back from a local Mardi Gras celebration with a friend (not male) and late-night pizza after, then we ended up doing a quick makeout session at a bus stop when no one else was around. I don’t know what either of us were thinking (neither of us were drunk, and this was supposed to be a normal friend outing, not a romantic date), but I can guarantee that it was not about men.

She texted me saying “Thanks, I had a nice time” after we parted ways, nothing specific about… that. Now I have to figure out if I want it to mean something.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
11 months ago

Of course the right wing is now melting down over the Weinstein verdict. Evidence? Ugh, OK, just don’t ask me where I got this icky smelly thing:

https://dailystormer.su/the-weinstein-verdict-effectively-makes-heterosexual-sex-illegal-in-america/

OK, it was some usenet newsgroup that’s become infested with right wing conspiracy theorists and, to judge by the above, literal neo-Nazis.

Anyone willing to hold their nose and write a takedown of this latest odious nonsense? It ends with Anglin explicitly asking for suggestions for a solution to “the woman problem”.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go shower. Even though it’s 2 AM.

Another Laura
Another Laura
11 months ago

Ah, if only. Look, I’m pretty ferociously sex positive, partly because I know how shame and ignorance can warp and hurt people, and partly because I like having sex. And I know that my past experiences made me who I am now, yadda yadda, the butterfly wings have flapped etc., and though I have regrets, I’m fairly glad to be who I am now.

BUT, oh, how much simpler my life would have been if I hadn’t had a sex drive! The time I would have saved, the energy I could have put to productive uses, the embarrassing moments and the inappropriate men I could have skipped! (Inappropriate, by the way, has nothing to do with race, religion, or ethnicity. It has to do with having nothing in common other than being bipedal carbon based life forms with a burning desire to get prone.)

So, yes, you manospherian goobers, women do have sex drives. It’s what keeps many of us puttering along when life gets grim.

Catalpa
Catalpa
11 months ago

I’m a woman and I don’t have a sex drive, but this nonsensical rambling doesn’t even apply to me. I don’t want to have sex because I’m asexual, and therefore I don’t have sex. I’ve got no interest in trading sex for attention or resources or whatever bullshit evopsych babble the manospherians are peddling now.

Being subjected to male sexual attention is one of the most uncomfortable, grossest things that I’ve been subjected to and it in no way makes me want to have sex with anything, especially not the source of that attention, and will indeed make me immediately attempt to escape the situation I find myself in.

occasional reader
occasional reader
11 months ago

Who need centuries of studies, experimentations and analysis in biology, psychology and sociology sciences when one grand man who knows it perfectly can tell it to everybody for free ? His great experience is sure totally real and absolutely not anecdotical, and thus confers him the right to speak for all.
All hail Dr. bsutansalt and his Universal Knowledge !
(Do i need to precise sarcasm ?)

BBBB
BBBB
11 months ago

I want to know what distinction they make between ‘wanting sex’ and ‘ wanting to feel sexual’.

Scratch that, I don’t want to know.

Unicorn Rider
Unicorn Rider
11 months ago

Who cares. Ask 10 of them once a day for a week and get 19182 different responses.

Somebody’s not very good at math, is he?

Flyboy
Flyboy
11 months ago

OK, that Ovipostor sex toy is just plain creepy. Due to the designs of H.R. Giger, the Alien movies always had sexual overtones, but this is just too fucking much.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Epitome

Men, by contrast, are always all the same in their sexual desires and preferences.

Oddly, this seems to be a fairly common belief. I remember back when Cliff Pervocracy used to do Cosmocking, he repeatedly pointed out that Cosmo and similar magazines and the culture at large liked to present an idea that women are super complicated and men’s sexuality is very simple and the same for all men.

@Surplus

Anglin explicitly asking for suggestions for a solution to “the woman problem”.

I have a solution that solves multiple problems at once: Andrew Anglin should move to the middle of a massive forest and never come out again. Then he doesn’t have to deal with women, and women don’t have to worry about him. Then everyone is happy.

jaygee
jaygee
11 months ago

Who cares. Ask 10 of them once a day for a week and get 19182 different responses.

70 different responses. The answer is 70. Why even specify “10 if them once a day for a week”? He could have left off the “once a day part” in order for his exaggeration to make sense. Not only is the math bad, but this is clearly sloppy thinking, which is not a surprise from a manospherian, who routinely express stupid ideas. It just bugs me so much.

Moggie
Moggie
11 months ago

Listen to their advice and get 0 sex

Did you remember to explicitly ask for 1 sex? Some of these shopping cart applications can be quite tricky.

Frederic Christie
11 months ago

As always, it also needs to be said that this view is also spectacularly misandrist because it reduces men to walking dicks. As if no men have ever not wanted sex. Or used their desirability for money and power. (These people apparently think “Chad” never gets anything besides sex… except when they do think that to make up some excuses for something else). Or wanted intimacy with sex just as a part of it. Etc.

Cindy
Cindy
11 months ago

Yeah, for some strange reason, women never express sexual desires when you’re around. I do wonder why that is. 🤔

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Frederic

this view is also spectacularly misandrist because it reduces men to walking dicks.

Well, red pillers sure are dicks, so for them the view isn’t that far off.

Jennifer Wells
Jennifer Wells
11 months ago

TW: fire, domestic assault

Hi David

Your old friend D.A. Nolan was having a field day, after a man burnt and killed his wife and children. He has been all over pages, telling women that, well, they were asking for it. I am sorry to bring it up, but he is everywhere!

Seraph4377
Seraph4377
11 months ago

I know this is the least of the stupid, but…what exactly does he think it would prove to ask 10 women the same question once a day for a week? Is he trying to track their sex drive over time? Is he just confirming that it’s still not there each day and not understanding that the reason they’re not horny when he asks is because his presence is a boner killer? Does he actually mean ask 70 different women? Either way, why does he think such a tiny sample size would be convincing?

Daughter
Daughter
11 months ago

10 x 7 is not equal to 19182. Even my ladybrain knows that.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Seraph4377

what exactly does he think it would prove to ask 10 women the same question once a day for a week?

I think he’s trying to figure out if women have sex drives, but going about it all wrong because he appears to lack a basic understanding of the scientific method (and of how numbers work). Plus, if a random man walked up to me and out of the blue asked me what made me feel sexual, I’d probably run the other way and I imagine I’m not alone in that response.

Catalpa
Catalpa
11 months ago

Ask 10 of them once a day for a week and get 19182 different responses.

19182 / 70 = ~124

You ask some women what makes then feel sexual and you get on average 124 different answers daily? I don’t know why this dude seems to think women have no sex drive, being able to list that amount of turn ons daily sounds like it indicates someone who is wildly horny.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
11 months ago

The price of male attention is sex. Sex is the glue that holds male attraction firmly in place.

The glue-ish-ness that holds MY attention is “intellectual curiosity” and “informed-ness”….

But that’s just me… I’m not even a beta to the manure-sphere, since my goal isn’t to get my end wet….

More like a “pleasant evening n a coffee in good company”

Katamount
11 months ago

Female sexuality is REACTIVE – it’s not the dull aching horniness that men experience.

*looks around* I’m sorry, maybe my male horniness is broken, but I’ve never described it as “dull and aching.” If anything, I consider it the spice of life that variety is not (at least not to my Aspie self). Give me the same routine, day in, day out, same food, same commute… just vary the gratification.

I will say this, though, and perhaps because it’s not a question I typically pose to women I know in meatspace (for obvious reasons)… the current “zeitgeist” of pop culture illustrates female sexuality as being one favouring the tension and excitement of courtship rather than of blunt depictions of sex acts. Admittedly I’m going off a couple of Netflix cartoons I’m watching (Big Mouth and Tuca & Bertie), but both shows had an episode dedicated to female arousal and both depicted “lady porn” as being period romance works (one a historical romance novel and the other a Jane Austen style miniseries). Even Tuca, the louder and raunchier of the protagonists, doesn’t talk about what turns her on much during the series, despite being the more sexual character.

Just kinda find it odd, cuz women definitely manifest the same blunt desires as any guy. The parties I’ve attended bear that out. All I can think is that the current gender roles still have a restricting effect on depictions of female sexuality. Probably the bluntest I can think of is Samantha from Sex and the City and she strikes me as an outlier, who even then was often played for comic relief rather than taken straight. I could be wrong though, I’m not the most voracious consumer of pop culture these days.

Either way, if women actually were as open about their desires as these guys claim to want, they’d be branded cock-carousel-obsessed Stacys in no time.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Katamount

All I can think is that the current gender roles still have a restricting effect on depictions of female sexuality.

Oh, for sure. It all goes back to the Puritanical view that women should be pure and chaste, and that means no blunt depictions of sex. Research has shown that female sexuality isn’t all that different from male sexuality, it’s just that the culture tries to entrain otherwise through what is depicted and through social stigma around female sexuality.

Either way, if women actually were as open about their desires as these guys claim to want, they’d be branded cock-carousel-obsessed Stacys in no time.

Hmm…I wonder why the women aren’t as open with Red Pill men? /s

FWIW I like both romance and sex. Not sure if this is common, but I would imagine many people could enjoy both.

Lainy
Lainy
11 months ago

It has become much more acceptable for me to be open about my desire for my husband since we’ve got married. Like I can express how hungry I am for him and be more open about my active engagement with sex for him. Even after we had been an exclousive couple for a long time the strange looks I was given when i showed active desire for him or talked about being the one who starts sex most of the time was really surprising. Now my husband gets told he’s lucky to have a wife who actively wants him and is engaging in sex which is really gross to me.

For some reason today it still more acceptable to be a “sex freak” inside of marriage then just in a committed relationship. I’m assuming this opinion of me will change once I have children and I’m expected to be the virgin Mary of mothers

Hambeast
Hambeast
11 months ago

I am a cis het woman who was saddled with a high sex drive in my youth and I never put that on display. My twenties were spent in the 80s and it wasn’t done because it would still get you branded a slut (as in days of old) and sluts weren’t treated well. It also always felt like it wouldn’t be safe to be that way.

Even Chad had to convince me that he was safe to fuck. It was a delicate dance around the edges of lust.

Now I’m nearly 60 and I don’t know how much of that is still true although I suspect much of it is, especially the safety part.

Professor Fate
Professor Fate
11 months ago

Being more than a bit pedantic – I real something like this and remember that back in the middle ages it was said that WOMEN who were the ones during the lusting, luring the men to perdition with their desires.
The one constant is that it’s never the Men’s fault.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
11 months ago

I think bsutansalt is wrongly conflating reactive sexuality, not wanting sex and wanting to “feel sexual”. That is, if I’ve even correctly guessed what all these concepts are supposed to mean.

Reactive sexuality would mean that one’s arousal is triggered only by present external stimuli, and there’s no spontaneous tendency to “feel horny” or imagine sexual fantasies. Usually, at least advanced arousal and orgasm requires some sensory stimulation.

According to a common (not only red pill) stereotype, women are more strictly sexually reactive than men. Also, women stereotypically respond to social/emotional/sensory stimuli while men respond to visual/sensory stimuli.

In other words, a stereotypical woman would be mainly or only aroused when a partner acts to seduce her, and perhaps only within an ongoing romantic relationship. In red pill lingo, all this is crudely lumped under “he gives her attention”.

“Feeling sexual” and “wanting sex” are here somehow artificially distinguished from each other. Perhaps the idea is that when a woman
responds to man’s seduction, she’s not really sexually aroused, but rather just enjoys being the centre* of his sexual attention, and just coincidentally it’s a good moment for her to reward him with sex.

Then again, all this is muddled by sloppy thinking, and the popular notion that women do in fact get aroused when seduced (as opposed to men, who get aroused from merely existing, or at the very least from existing in presence of an attractive woman).

*Is this correct spelling? My spellcheck offers “center”.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
11 months ago

Also, I think the concept of reactive vs. spontaneous (?) sexuality used here only concerns partnered interaction and how arousal makes people seek or want partnered sex. Self-stimulation by masturbation and seeking fantasies/porn is excluded from the model, especially for women.

Also, stimuli are perhaps strictly understood to mean a partner’s “attention”. Therefore, when a man gets (more) horny from just visually observing a woman, it’s lumped under spontaneous rather than reactive arousal. If male masturbation is considered at all, it’s seen as a temporary release from spontaneous arousal, rather than an exercise in stimulated arousal.

(Of course, in reality the relation between arousal and wanting/seeking partnered sex isn’t so straightforward, especially in women, as they have to consider all kinds of practicalities in partnered sex.)

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Lumipuna

Usually, at least advanced arousal and orgasm requires some sensory stimulation.

IIRC in a thread a while ago about semen retainers meditating we discussed the possibility of orgasm without stimulation. It’s never happened to me but it might still be possible.

Re: centre vs center: as far as I know, both are correct but centre is more common in the U.K. and Commonwealth countries, while center is more common in the US. I think people should understand either way, so it doesn’t really matter which you use.

Victorious Parasol
11 months ago

@Lumipuna

My American self was taught “center,” but I know my British friends and many Canadian friends spell it as “centre.”

I like how you’ve mapped out the sloppy thinking of the redpillers.

Ann K
Ann K
11 months ago

Of course female sex drive is “reactive”. We react to hormones.

Men, on the other hand, desire sex because …er…they react to hormones…wait a minute, I’ll go out and come in again…

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
11 months ago

So, Firefox supports American spelling for center … and so does my Word!

I’ve been specifically using Word Spellcheck for “US English” because my job requires writing English in some “consistent” style. However, I used to get the impression that said Spellcheck doesn’t actually flag out Briticisms much or at all.

Lainy
Lainy
11 months ago

This really doesn’t explain all those fanfictions about m/m couples that are written by teenage girls and adult women. A lot of them are smut

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
11 months ago

@Surplus

Of all the anime the Stormfreaks could have used, they just had to use Kumamiko, the show about the talking bear who psychologically abuses the girl he’s known since childhood, didn’t they.

Mabret the Virile Maiden
Mabret the Virile Maiden
11 months ago

It’s little wonder they deny the existence of lesbians, because it instantly explodes all their theories. Personally, I (a lesbian) am happier the less male attention I get.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
11 months ago

@Surplus

Ahhh the old “men are thrown into prison on a woman’s word!” bullshit. But when you confront them with the fact that most rape accusations don’t even make it to trial the tone switches to “in this country we operate on innocent until proven guilty! Why do you want to change that?”

Manospherians, pick a narrative and stick to it.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@sunnysombrera

Manospherians, pick a narrative and stick to it.

That’s probably too much to ask of a right wing group. What they lack in sense or quality of arguments they try to make up with quantity, hence their love of the Gish Gallop and similar techniques.

M K
M K
11 months ago

“women do not have a sex drive”

it’s times like this when I really miss being/identifying as a girl/woman so that I could play the “well I am one, and I definitely do” card.

Full Metal Ox
11 months ago

@Surplus to Requirements:

So what you’re saying is that a conservative joke tends to be a threat with a laugh track?

Bina
11 months ago

@assorted numbskull menzers:

Female sexuality is REACTIVE – it’s not the dull aching horniness that men experience. It is rapid-onset response to desirable male attention.

NOPE. Never have I ever experienced any such thing. Even in the face of desired male attention, NOPE.

The price of male attention is sex. Sex is the glue that holds male attraction firmly in place.

O RLY? I had sex with a guy who still dumped me later, so again…NOPE.

Ipso facto women are willing to pay the sex price and a natural feedback loop is created; male attention makes her “sexual”, the sex engenders more attention from the male, the attention makes her FEEL “sexual”, and so on.

Ipso facto NOTHING. Nope, nope, and NOPE.

They fuck because they want to FEEL sexual. Not because they want sex.

And you would know this…HOW? Have you spent even one day inside one of our skins? NOPE.

Who cares. Ask 10 of them once a day for a week and get 19182 different responses. Listen to their advice and get 0 sex.

Orrrrr don’t listen, and still get no sex. Because nobody wants to have sex with an arrogant, barely animated trilby.

to maximally exploit her youth (in other words beauty) for maximal desirable male attention.

Youth ≠ beauty. There are plenty of not-so-beautiful young people. There are also plenty of beautiful not-so-young people. The idea that beauty inheres in youth, and dies off after a certain age, is pernicious nonsense. And don’t even get me started on how many types of it there are that have nothing to do with the external and physical, either.

Oh, and the bit about “maximal desirable male attention” is also bullshit, in case you’re wondering.

Some trade resources and their dignity for this (gradually rarer) privilege – we call them beta males. Others learn to exploit the desire for their attention. Be the latter guy.

Orrrrr you can do something truly radical and useful with your cranium, and realize that “alpha” and “beta” are bullshit terms (long since discredited and disowned by the very scientists who initially coined them), and exploiting women for sex is bullshit, and also that relationships are actually built on something other than “trading resources and dignity” for sex. But to do that, you need to step outside the manosphere and actually be your own damn man.

Which is undoubtedly frightening to these machista wannabes, but if any of them ever broke that mold, I guarantee they would automatically improve their chances with women in general.