By David Futrelle
Never before, it seems, have so many men so confidently answered the question “what do women want” with zero input from actual women. At least when Freud infamously asked this question he admitted he didn’t really know the answer.
Not so the men of the Red Pill subreddit today, who regularly deliver up massive walls of text purporting to explain how these mysterious women work. And they are pretty much always spectacularly wrong.
Consider, for example, the gentleman known as bsutansalt, a mod of the Red Pill subreddit, who recently graced his Red Pill brethren with a repost of one of his, er, classic posts, titled “Women Do Not Have a ‘Sex Drive.” In it he argues that, well, women don’t have a sex drive, but instead engage in sex only because it’s a way for them to acquire “desirable male attention.”
As he sees it,
Female sexuality is REACTIVE – it’s not the dull aching horniness that men experience. It is rapid-onset response to desirable male attention.
The price of male attention is sex. Sex is the glue that holds male attraction firmly in place.
Ipso facto women are willing to pay the sex price and a natural feedback loop is created; male attention makes her “sexual”, the sex engenders more attention from the male, the attention makes her FEEL “sexual”, and so on.
They fuck because they want to FEEL sexual. Not because they want sex.
Now I don’t need to tell you that there is, well, a great deal of evidence suggesting otherwise. Like, for example, if you’re a woman, for example, you may have noticed that you do in fact get horny on a fairly regular basis.
Not that bsutansalt really cares what goes on inside a woman’s head. “What do women THINK makes them feel sexual,” he asks himself at one point, offering up the answer
Who cares. Ask 10 of them once a day for a week and get 19182 different responses. Listen to their advice and get 0 sex.
In bsutansalt’s universe, men and women are from planets even more distinct than Venus and Mars. The goal of every woman, he assers,
is to maximally exploit her youth (in other words beauty) for maximal desirable male attention.
Men, by contrast,
want to fuck for fucking’s sake. Some trade resources and their dignity for this (gradually rarer) privilege – we call them beta males. Others learn to exploit the desire for their attention. Be the latter guy.
Hoo boy.
Even if bsutansalt has managed to convince himself that straight women never fuck for fucking’s sake, and are always in it for “sexy attention,” one wonders how he explains it when women’s sexual activity involves no male attention at all. I mean, to point out something that is obvious to everyone except for Red Pill men, women masturbate. Women use sex toys, including some really really weird ones. Women watch porn. Women read (and write) stories about the brothers on the show Supernatural boning each other. None of these things require “desirable male attention” in order to happen.
This may comes as a shock to some Red Pill men, but there are also some women who have sex with one another. Do lesbians somehow exude “desirable male attention” — or even just “desirable female attention” — that they can trade with one another in bed? Do women actually fuck each other, or do they just lie there “feeling sexual” in each other’s presence?
I’m afraid that bsutansalt’s galaxy brain might just explode if he were forced to consider these possibilities.
H/T — Thanks to r/TheBluePill for highlighting this epic OP
Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.
We Hunted the Mammoth relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!
@Full Metal Ox
That’s one conservative joke. The other one is variations on the same attack helicopter joke repeated ad nauseum.
@Bina
Don’t give him any ideas, they take everything too literally.
At least a hat would have more decency than these men.
To the inhabitants of the manosphere:
If you liked women, they might like you; since you do not like women, they do not like you. In my experience, on the whole, and all other things being equal, women tend to want to have sex with people they do like, and to not want to have sex with people they don’t.
Whether this is what “bsutansalt” considers a “reactive” sex drive, in contrast to manospherians such as himself simultaneously hating women but also wanting to have sex with them, I am not clear. I, however, am a man, and I have this “reactive” sex drive too, and, as far as I am aware, most other men do also. Whether the manospherians’ self-contradictory and idiotic simultaneous hate / lust that bsultansalt and his like experience is largely unique to a subset of men, or whether there is a significant subset of women who also think in the same way, I don’t know.
Since these guys apparently regard male attention as liquid fucking gold, I’m going to go ahead and propose that they retain it.
Anyway, I thought women secretly craved being ignored by Chad? Isn’t being mysterious, withholding, and distant the entire bedrock of PUA?
I think this was supposed to illustrate the capricious and unreflective nature of women. Feemales just don’t know what they want! They change their minds 732839028 times a second, faster than the speed of light! But I can do bad math in my head, so I know exactly how they think!
How is this supposed to work? MGTOWs loathe women. I can’t see them giving out social media likes, or complimenting women on anything, or even talking to them without coming across as the disdainful creeps they are. They’re incapable of giving women any sort of positive attention. I can just see one of them saying to a woman “I like your hat” and then writhing on the ground a second later, screaming “IT BURNSSSSSS”.
or alternatively: For fuck’s sake.
@Buttercup
Is SRLO still lurking here? This would be a good suggestion for him, better than retaining his semen.
@Naglfar : he got banned, but maybe he still impotently read thoses comments.
@Ohlmann
I know he got banned, but he could still be reading.
Was this pun intentional?
@Lainy—
I haven’t seen it lately, but there used to be some pop-statistic thrown around that claimed men on average experience their “sexual peak” at 18, women at 30. I always found it extremely suspicious that “sexual peak” never seemed to be defined, nor a source given for the numbers.
After a while I guessed that, assuming the “study” wasn’t entirely fictional, it had likely consisted of asking people to estimate how often they had sex, and that the thirty-year-olds were just being more honest: possibly due to them being old enough to resist the social pressure to over- or under—report, but as you noted, married women seem to have permission to admit to sexual interest, at least with their husbands (and married men seem to be under some pressure to complain about how they have no fun anymore); and thirty-year-olds are more likely to be married than eighteen-year-olds.
@Professor Fate—
Yeah, that’s a running gag in the Decameron iirc. Still sexist, but when you’re used to the opposite, it’s kind of a refreshing change.
@Moon Custafer
I’ve seen the same statistic getting thrown around before, and I’ve never once seen a citation for it, which makes me skeptical. Then there’s the fact that I’ve usually seen it mentioned in unreliable sources like popular magazines or relationship self-help books, neither of which are known for peer review or fact checking.
The “sexual peak” stats that I read in the 1970s referred to shortest time between orgasms.
17 year old boys and 35 year old women were the winning groups I saw then.
Vaguely related : the study showing that 90% of college educated women over 35 were unmarried also showed that a year later, 95% of those who’d stated they wished to marry were either married or engaged.
@moon
I think it largely has to do with how young my husband and I are and the group of men he’s around most of the time. He’s normally in with other early 20 something guys. The Marines tend to have a lot of conservatives in them so a lot of the guys there are also engaged or married or in long terms relationship and then the other half are like frat boys Chad’s for lack of a better term. Those guys go through “dry spells” and aren’t in long term relationship so they express a lot how lucky my husband is to have “guaranteed” sex when he goes out on leave.
I’m also fairly conventionally attractive so that helps with that as well.
Normally any older men my husband is around tell him that I’m probably cheating on him and that he’s an idiot for getting married now ( would also like to point out that one of the guys saying this is a 60 year old man married to a 23 year old woman).
There has been like one older marine there that talks about his wife and children in a loving way that my husband has come across. Mainly because my husband complains when he can because he’s home sick. He misses me and the familiarity of home and everyone else in his life. This makes him hate the island he’s on but the older dude told him that the island is fine. It’s actually a beautiful and nice place to live, you just don’t have the people around you make you feel alive.
@Lainy
That older guy has something going for him right there on that philosophy. At least he’s around to counterbalance the rest of those attitudes for your hubby. The rest of those guys? Yeeeek.
God, I wish that was true sometimes, at least for me. TMI alert, I’ve been horny most of my life. Perpetual horniness. I’ve been taking care of business since…damn, before I was five, i think! Sometimes I get so horny I can’t focus on anything, occasionally at work–thank goodness I’m female and double thank goodness I’m..ahem..efficient enough to take it to the bathroom and get it out of my way without suspicion. Sometimes I wish I could be a robot and not be horny when I need to get things done, or have my brain turn to sex mush just because I saw an attractive guy, whether real or a drawing. I loved that scene in Chappy where Chappy figured out how to brainmap and put human minds into robots, I’d be first in line!
So yeah, I’ve been told multiple times growing up–even by my mom–that “women have no sex drive”, or at best “women have a miniscule sex drive compared to men”. And every time, it makes me laugh because if it were true,my life would be so much easier.
And I’m a forty year old virgin on top of it all.
And yet I still.don’t go.about cursing all the dudes I’m actually attracted to who.are never attracted to me. Despite the fact that at this point, what I’ve been doing isn’t cutting it like it used to and im.feeling more and more like I need a…you know. And dammit, it hurts. I know how much it hurts.
Then I read what these d-bags have to say and I just start pricing…toys. Because the toys would be less toxic even if they were coated in lead.
So… those manospherian dudes seem to reduce women to basically their interpassive side , right? This wound explain why they have this hyperspecific, everchanging needs that are optimized to be unfullfillable and prefer their prey weak and without self-confidence.
The thing is, however, that sexual interpassivity (if that makes sense) can feel great and I think that a lot of people have phases where they enjoy sharing the delicious overflow of cooperative sex (compared to sex-as-a-(voluntary or maybe paid-service) in just the right way to drive their partner(s) to the brink of euphoria. It’s an awesome thing to do and the feedback loop some creeps describe as basically a zero-sum (short time perspective) or even a net-loss (long time perspective since lifetime is limited) scenario is a great way to relax. For example, I really enjoy tickling my partner and getting tickled after an orgasm. It’s not that much of a high compared to a really good workout session or the euphoria of a stressfull job well done and of course it cannot compare with true euphoria, but it’s nice to have still. The best situations for me where always when there was more than one partner involved or when I was allowed to not pretend that I was basically a tough customer to my lovers and did not have to mercilessly optimize for my own gratification but instead for the pleasure of others, thereby, trough my helper-syndrome getting off better too. Looking back on it now I do realize why I had such a destabilizing effect on the fragile heterosexuality of some men…oh well.
Of course I can do much better than most of those skeezy moral failures with an appetite for my body out there like that one dude I recently met in a bar and who told me a hell of a story (realizing why setting limts that way was a good thing instead of just a neutral decision was way harder), but I am sorta worried that some men seem to have picked up that a lot of traumatized trans girls basically desire to become selfless companions to whomever will take them — and their stories about us sound way less wholesomely-weird than those of ada powers
Surprised David didn’t challenge the basic premise; that there’s something special/different about male horniness.
“the dull aching horniness that men experience.”
Not sure what that even means, but it would be easy to argue that men don’t really feel horny, we just want to stroke our ego by having sex with a woman rather than jerking off. “Why would a man want a woman? Expense and difficulty! Just take care of the problem yourself.” Etc….
@Flux
Sorry for replying late.
Here’s some transgirl knowledge that might help explain stuff from an unique perspective. I think a part of the ache is basically a raised blood pressure in ones nether regions. The penis becomes overly errect and starts to hurt, especially if there is a problem with release.This, together with social expectations and low-key stimulation can be a factor in blue-balls syndrome. The problem can be amplified by having high expectations of ones performance or, like me at the time– could really do without using ones own penis at all. So: Some penis-havers suffer because of preconditions, some suffer because they are trans girls or guys who do not like to have their penis touched — and some might have extra trouble because they feel they need to score in a pornstar way (long, hard, chadlike) while being unable to seduce a willing partner without major help from that partner. This is a dull ache.
The other part of that ache is the slow-burning rage some testosterone-sensitive people feel, especially when it comes to sex. The testosterone (-derivates, but let’s keep it simple)level rises and the brain feels a need to express aggression. So as a penishaver one might have to find a way to use ones tool as some sort of screwdriver in order to lockpick their way into a willing and moaning lockhaver even though that act can be uncomfortable and, trough continued increase of testosterone, make one even more unhappy. Thus, the release tends to be, well…rather weird, I guess, but human sex is weird. I personally prefer orgasms that make use of cooperative tactis because nothing is as hot as my partner enjoying themselves visibly and audibly, but I am also fine with just doing my part in order to provide pleasure.
The thing about the vulva-vagina/ lock having sort of orgasm ( I think of a lock because it has a lot of interresting parts that are hard but rewarding to figure out by touch alone) for me is that this hornyness is not that hurtfull. There is no increasing pressure until there is finally a lot of yelling and a spurt of semen, but instead there are waves and waves of good feelings that sometimes overlap and that make me moan with anticipation … and afterwards I often giggle for minutes – I don’t know how much of that is social conditioning, but a lot of men I have watched turn very tired and, since they seem to have an increased need for movement during sex and an adrenaline reaction that seems more designed to have a fast and short adaption curve (estradiol-dominant people like cis-women can often enjoy themselves a lot longer), this fits.
As for your advice of masturbation..well: I think there was something in Conells masculinities that men with life problems tend to hate their own bodies (too soft, to inefficient, etc) and can only enjoy them with a womans touch. If they are also used to have other self-damaging hobbies, it get’s harder to fix still.