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empathy deficit entitled babies incels men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny rape rape culture

An incel’s creepy rape manifesto

By David Futrelle

In case you’ve forgotten just how vile the discussions on the Incels.co forums can get, here’s a creepy rape manifesto I found there today, written by someone who, remarkably, considers himself kind and gentle.

[Serious] It’s time for women to have sex with me

Inceldom Discussion
ShySaxon

Jan 16, 2020

Today at 9:58 AM

#1
Now im not a violent person. I’m a peaceful man with a toxic personality and I’m also a misogynist. But that doesn’t matter to women as studies and social experiments have shown. I don’t want to force women to do it but I may have to if they don’t, in Minecraft. I am a kind person really, I won’t hurt you. Please, give me sex. I need it to function as a man, hell, I need it to become a man in the first place. It’s like a trial near adulthood and you ascend to the rank of adult once you have sex. Give it to me. I demand it. You WILL have sex with me, one way or the other.

Naturally, this being Incelsco, most of the regulars replying to this miniature manifesto thought it made a lot of sense. Oh, sure, there were a few suggesting that posting things like this means bad PR for incels if someone like me (or the incel-mockers on the Incel Tears subreddit) were to discover it. And another reminds the OP that simply saying “in Minecraft” after threatening violence against women isn’t going to convince anyone he was really talking about a video game and not something he wants to do in the real world.

But most responses were positive. “It’s only logical,” wrote one commenter. “Go for it bro,” added another.

“I desperately want a pussy,” wrote a third..

Denying us sex is like denying someone his birthright. FUCK WHAT BLUEPILLERS SAY. I am a human and I should be entitled to sex.

Still another commenter thought his sex life should be the government’s business.

It should be a law for women to lose their virginities to incels before they go on to whore with chads

None of these commenters are drive-by trolls. Each one of them has posted more than a thousand comments on Incels.co; the guy saying “go for it” has posted more than 9000 (literally). This is how ideas like these get normalized in Incel spaces; this is how violent fantasies can turn into plans for action.

Incel forums aren’t “safe spaces” where unfortunate souls can harmlessly vent their frustrations. They’re hate magnifiers, empowering the worst impulses of everyone that posts to them. They need to be shut down.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

Did anyone else find the Minecraft reference odd? I haven’t played in a while, but I don’t recall the game having a sexual component. The whole game for me is kind of tainted by Notch becoming a white supremacist, misogynist, and transphobe, so I haven’t really played much lately even though he was no longer associated with Minecraft when he said that.

I am a human and I should be entitled to sex.

Non-sequitur.

I need it to become a man.

Out of curiosity, do most men think this?

Still another commenter thought his sex life should be the government’s business.

Who wants to bet the man who said that calls himself a “small government conservative” or “libertarian”? Conservatives love big government so long as it is in uteruses and people’s bedrooms.

epronovost
epronovost
9 months ago

This guy is mess of self-contradiction.

He is a man, but not a man.

He is not violent, but he is violent.

His misogyny and toxic personnality aren’t an issue for him to get sex, but it is since he is an incel.

I beg you give me sex, but if not I’ll rape you.

I can get sex, but I can’t get sex.

This is probably one of the most pathetic kind of humane alive. The only good thing is that he is more cowardly and weak willed than he is bitter and ragefilled. As long as he complains and mope on internet he isn’t harming anybody.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
9 months ago

No one can give anyone sex. It’s an activity, not a magic wand or a cheeseburger. That’s like asking to be given soccer or dance or figure skating. How don’t these guys get this?

I’m an unattractive, often unloved woman and it has never even occurred to me that men should “give me” sex like it was a box of chocolates. Because that’s not how any of this works.

epronovost
epronovost
9 months ago

I need it to become a man.

Out of curiosity, do most men think this?

Sort of – ish. It’s considered a sign of adulthood amongst men to enter your first real relationship with a woman (or man should the sbject be gay). It’s not about sex, it’s more than that.

At least that’s how I see it.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@epronovost

As long as he complains and mope on internet he isn’t harming anybody.

I’d say he is causing harm. By reinforcing and propagating these ideas among his fellow incels, he is spreading his noxious views and increasing the odds that one of those men will one day snap and commit a mass murder like Elliot Rodger or Alek Minassian. The OP may not be directly killing anyone, but I would say in that event he would bear some of the responsibility for the murders.

@Jarnsaxa

No one can give anyone sex.

The mindset of sex as something to be given by women to men is one that I strongly dislike. In addition to the obvious misogyny, it reduces sex from a potentially enjoyable activity to a chore or status sign. I much prefer to see sex as a collaborative activity for two (or more) adults.

Side note: just noticed that OP’s tagline says “Anglo-Aryancel.” I’m reasonably certain that’s a white nationalist dogwhistle.

rv97
rv97
9 months ago

@Naglfar

Fuck. It’s a shame to hear that. I can’t refund Minecraft now (although I bought the cheaper Pocket Edition on Google Play) because I’ve passed the refund window I believe. I can uninstall it but the damage has been done.

Minecraft never appealed to me anyway because of the blocky aesthetic. However I wanted to play with a group of people from a fandom community, some of them whose very existence would offend Notch (quite a significant number of LGBT and/or PoC individuals too, and most of the fandom do not identify in a masculine manner – also, many are under or closer to 18 than 25, so Notch would posit them as victims of a “degenerate” system).

While I prefer first person shooter games and other games that don’t have such a blocky aesthetic, I got fucking sick of conservative scum in online environments, and sucking at said games too. I should play single player games but I feel lonely playing them.

Susan
Susan
9 months ago

@Jarnsaxa. You are right, of course. But we do ask someone if we can “have this dance.” Just a linguistic observation: you are right in the essentials.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
9 months ago

ShySaxon have you considered not to come off as a rapist?

GAZZA
GAZZA
9 months ago

I need it to become a man.

Out of curiosity, do most men think this?

That sex is a rite of passage? Eh. To some extent maybe, but I would submit there is plenty of pop culture that uses the “now I’m a real woman” equivalent too.

I do at times despair of my gender, but I’m not sure “now that I’ve gotten laid I’m a real man” is necessarily the worst example of toxic masculinity – of course assuming consensual sex.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
9 months ago

GIVE ME TENNIS. I DEMAND IT.

I am a terrible player and hate everyone who plays, but studies and social experiments have shown that it doesn’t matter. I should still get to go to Wimbledon.

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
9 months ago

@GAZZA:

I would submit there is plenty of pop culture that uses the “now I’m a real woman” equivalent too.

It’s a lot more associated with getting your period. And to me, that makes a lot more sense (even though I think it’s stupid too, as it erases everyone not cis) – it at least signifies that your body is maturing, whereas sex doesn’t have to have anything to do with that, unfortunately.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

The other problem with this idea that sex makes a man a man is that it is likely quite hurtful to male rape victims. A man who was molested as a boy would probably be offended by the suggestion that it “made him a man.” It also would seem to belittle the suffering of such victims.

GAZZA
GAZZA
9 months ago

Oh I wasn’t arguing that it was a healthy idea at all.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@GAZZA
I know, I wasn’t responding to you in particular. I was ruminating on the idea in general. Sorry if what I said seemed like an attack, it wasn’t meant to be one.

Bina
9 months ago

And they wonder why we’d rather have cats on our own than sex with them.

Yeah, I wonder too. In Minecraft.

GAZZA
GAZZA
9 months ago

As an avid Minecraft player I must say that the idea it’s at all favoured by incels leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I’m not going let these guys spoil it for me.

And sure Naglfar, we’re totes cool – I was just making sure you didn’t think I was advocating that sort of nonsense, as an infrequent poster here I felt it was important to emphasise that. 🙂

Fabe
Fabe
9 months ago

As an avid Minecraft player I must say that the idea it’s at all favoured by incels leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I’m not going let these guys spoil it for me.

Agreed . a lot of great things are enjoyed by horrible people but we can’t let that stop us from still enjoying it our selves.

Ginger
Ginger
9 months ago

Word to the wise — women find misogyny a huge turnoff.

And if these men say they need sex so badly, why don’t they simply visit a sex worker? Are they too cheap? Or do they view sex workers as somehow beneath them?

Lainy
Lainy
9 months ago

And if these men say they need sex so badly, why don’t they simply visit a sex worker? Are they too cheap? Or do they view sex workers as somehow beneath them?

Beneath them. they think it doesn’t count if she isn’t a 16 year old who looks like a hot 22 year old porn star who is a virgin.

renewal
renewal
9 months ago

Re: “in minecraft”

It’s common in white supremacist circles to refer to doing violent acts “in minecraft” when discussing them (as if that would ever actually shield a person from liability, but they’re not the smartest bunch.) Seems like that’s, unsurprisingly, leaking into the incel community

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
9 months ago

Incels seem to be generally aware that buying sex doesn’t grant you real sex-haver status because it’s not a social accomplishment. For some reason, they don’t seem to think the same applies to rape or pity sex.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
9 months ago

Could it be that “… in Minecraft” is a general purpose meme for denoting fantasy-like non-seriousness in internet edgelord communities?

Snowberry
Snowberry
9 months ago

@Ginger: Sex workers don’t count. It doesn’t give them the validation or feeling of conquest that they crave more than the actual sex, not that they’d word it exactly like that. Incels who have engaged in the services of a sex worker are sometimes referred to as “escortcels”.

Which is probably a good thing that most of them don’t try. As a former sex worker, I don’t wish that kind of person on any of them.

GAZZA
GAZZA
9 months ago

@Ginger: Sex workers don’t count.

I read that as “Ginger sex workers don’t count”, and thought, “What have you got against redheads?” 🙂

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
9 months ago

A lot of sign of an “ironic” nazi. All in all, he probably should be under terrorism watch.

jaygee
jaygee
9 months ago

What boggles my mind is that paid sex doesn’t count, but somehow government-forced sex does?

Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
9 months ago

I know quite a few men in my online circle who are virgins or who have never had romantic relationships. Some are asexual. Mr. Dakry was himself a virgin until his late thirties, with me.

And all of them are responsible adults. None of them feel entitled to a woman’s attention or body. And all of them are far more men than this whiny wannabe rapist will ever be. A penis in a vagina does not maturity make. He can go kiss a weedwhacker.

@jaygee
It seems that the forcing women is the entire point of the exercise for them.

Anna
Anna
9 months ago

I think early exposure to porn contributes a lot in making of an incel. It kind of sets their views on women, sexuality and relationships.

Demonhype
Demonhype
9 months ago

@rv97

I’m luckier, I prefer to play single player mode and love playing by myself alone,though I don’t object to other people in the room. I once got nice and drunk, pleasant drink just shy of being actually sick, and spent an hour or two playing the open environments in the second Sly Cooper game on PS1, and it was absolutely hilarious fun, just wandering about picking guards pockets and laughing my ass off if I fucked up and got chased. My brother tried it another time, when he was drunk,and agreed that it was weirdly awesome.

Years ago, me and my brother and his buddy used to talk late into the night while playing Ratchet and Clank on PS1, passing the controller back and forth like a joint after completing a level.or objective. That was my idea of social gaming.

Though my brother and I have been considering playing together on a few games so we can maybe grab some achievements like in the Ghostbusters game, or try to beat Portal 2 co-op. The few times I play with others online, its usually like that, with someone I personally know on invite only.

The only time it was strangers was this last week,when I was trying to get my brother and me on a level.if Castlevania HoD and fucked up the invite screen and found myself playing with two folks,one from Italy and one from.Japan,who moved impossibly fast (literally,i think they must have modded their shit up, the characters don’t move that fast on their own, and the character I was playing with I’d played for a long time and had built up pretty good, and he still can’t move so fast he can beat stage 1 in under a minute) and I couldn’t keep up. Which is another reason I don’t bother, I’m just playing for fun to unwind no matter what the game and like to choose players I personally know are about the same, who just want to have some fun while shooting the breeze. I don’t have the interest or energy for this hardcore shit where I’m playing with people who take it so damn seriously they’ve modded the game up in ways I couldn’t possibly figure out to damn near bypass the actual.gameplay and fast forward to the prizes. And look down on you if you don’t.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
9 months ago

I am a human and I should be entitled to sex.

You shouldn’t be entitled to sex. You’re not entitled to sex.

End of story.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
9 months ago

@Bananananana dakry:

@jaygee
It seems that the forcing women is the entire point of the exercise for them.

I think it ties back into sex being seen as something you “get” instead of something you “do”. If you view women as being in possession of all of the sex and think their duty to give it to you, taking “the sexes” by force (raping) or having a government force them to give you “the sexes” would be vastly superior to paying for it. After all, that would make it seem like an equitable trade. If a woman can trade “the sexes” for money, that implies she is within her – gasp! – rights to withhold them as she pleases, and if that were the case, then where would we be?

Oh, the real world, you say? Sounds nasty. /s

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Ohlmann

A lot of sign of an “ironic” nazi. All in all, he probably should be under terrorism watch.

Honestly, most incels are terrorist attacks waiting to happen. If the FBI was smarter it would spend more time investigating incel groups and trying to shut down incel forums. I’m sure they’d find new homes, but it might dissuade a few or make it harder to plan attacks.

@jaygee

What boggles my mind is that paid sex doesn’t count, but somehow government-forced sex does?

I think this is because they don’t really want sex, they want to oppress women. Government sponsored rape is a sure fire way to do that.

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
9 months ago

What will these guys do when they do manage to have sex and then it turns out it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference for how miserable they are?

I suspect the answer will somehow involve blaming women.

Citizen Justin
9 months ago

“I desperately want a pussy,”

I don’t think that came out the way he intended it to.

Citizen Justin
9 months ago

@Lukas Xavier

Have a one night stand, then obsessively stalk the woman they had the one night stand with.

Catalpa
Catalpa
9 months ago

By reinforcing and propagating these ideas among his fellow incels, he is spreading his noxious views and increasing the odds that one of those men will one day snap and commit a mass murder like Elliot Rodger or Alek Minassian.

Also, even if this dude “only” encourages rapists and not mass murderers, that’s still fucking horrific and contributing to harm.

What will these guys do when they do manage to have sex and then it turns out it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference for how miserable they are?

Decide that sex doesn’t count, because the woman wasn’t hot enough, wasn’t submissive enough, didn’t become his permanent live-in mommy/sex dispenser, etc etc etc.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
9 months ago

Have a one night stand, then obsessively stalk the woman they had the one night stand with.

Yeah… someone who believes sex will “complete” them will instead become a sexual predator for whom “the next time” will always be the one that will work.

Nevermind the idea (the very well supported idea) that sex will NEVER “complete” them…

Nor will any of the OTHER behaviors they try

Katamount
9 months ago

Just for the clarification of those puzzling over the “Minecraft” reference, it’s a meme related with how to get around erstwhile violent threats on Twitch.

You know the kind: “KYS… in Minecraft. Throw yourself off a bridge… in Minecraft.”

I only know it because I’ve seen a couple of the dirtbag left guys do it with respect to neo-Nazis on their YouTube streams. I don’t use Twitch or play Minecraft.

Frankly, it comes off as very juvenile and unimaginative. As most incels do.

But really, it’s the same textbook toxic masculinity that plenty of guys are bombarded with, myself included. I remember being that awkward teenager, every single teen comedy of the late 90s being about how big a “rite of passage” sex was and that you weren’t “a man” unless you’ve awkwardly rubbed against someone else for five minutes (if that).

What’s odd is that even those teen comedies had a tongue-firmly-in-cheek kinda charm about them. A kind of “Yeah, these clueless teenagers have built up sex as this big thing, but they’re still the same awkward geeks when it’s over.” The teen dramas that arose in early 2000s played it entirely straight to a very strange extent. It was enough to have me missing the melodrama of the original Degrassi.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Katamount
That makes more sense regarding Minecraft.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
9 months ago

I find it frequently “amusing” how these people, whose political allegiance is nearly always a flavor of “Libertarian”, demand government mandated sex. It’s as if anything they dislike is “rape” or “slavery” except actual rape or slavery.

@Jarnsaxa

That’s like asking to be given soccer or dance or figure skating.

Amusingly enough, my older brother was one of those people who felt “entitled to soccer” and would beat me up any time I didn’t want to go to the backyard to play with him (don’t worry though, I eventually got stronger and paid him back in kind).

@Naglfar

he whole game for me is kind of tainted by Notch becoming a white supremacist, misogynist, and transphobe, so I haven’t really played much lately even though he was no longer associated with Minecraft when he said that.

That fucking sucks… I had to google Notch, but I had no idea the developper had become a Nazi of sorts. I really like the game, but nowadays I sadly feel like it would be a waste of my time when I could be doing something more productive, like drawing and whatnot.

I still feel like I could go back to it though because, whilst the creator is a horrible fucking person, the game in and by itself is pleasant and devoid of his bullshit. Though if I do, I’m downloading the pirated version because fuck the whole idea of supporting that assclown.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Diego Duarte
If it makes you feel any better I don’t think he’s making money off of it anymore since he left Mojang. I like the game too but I haven’t played it much due to a combination of Notch’s politics and not having time.

whose political allegiance is nearly always a flavor of “Libertarian”

Usually people who identify as libertarians want no rules for themselves and want everyone to comply with them. It’s a very self-centered view. There was a viral tweet going around a few days ago about someone who was a libertarian, then tried MDMA and realized other people have feelings and changed his views. I’d believe that given what I know about libertarianism and psychedelics.
In addition, the majority of libertarians I know are white nationalists, which fits with the rest of their views.

Victorious Parasol
9 months ago

I’d say that I don’t understand why incels feel entitled to another person’s attention, but since most of them don’t seem to recognize women as autonomous people….

But seriously, incels, WHY DO YOU THINK THIS SHOULD BE A THING? When Mr. Parasol was a boy, he’d pester his younger sister with “Will you PLEASE play Monopoly with me???” Eventually she got tired of him winning all the games and said no. He respected that “no” (if “respect” includes some childish pouting) because he knew that his sister did not have to do what he wanted.

(FYI: Don’t play Monopoly with my husband unless you’re a serious player. The man is a FIEND at that game. The computer versions give him a decent challenge.)

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Victorious Parasol

Don’t play Monopoly with my husband unless you’re a serious player.

For me it’s Scrabble. None of my family has been willing to play Scrabble with me since I was about 12 because I won every game.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
9 months ago

@Naglfar

There was a viral tweet going around a few days ago about someone who was a libertarian, then tried MDMA and realized other people have feelings and changed his views. I’d believe that given what I know about libertarianism and psychedelics.

Yeah I saw that. I’ve been commenting for several years on an anti-libertarian group on Facebook, and we have noticed the same trends over and over.

1- They claim you don’t know libertarianism, but when you show them what their ideologues have written (Friedman, Hayek, Nozick, Coase, Rothbard) they will say “that’s not libertarianism!” or “you don’t know the party platform!”

2- When you highlight the specifics of their party platform they will bleat “why do you hate freedom!” or blame the government, for whatever problem is being discussed.

3- When the Civil Rights Act comes into question, they will falsely accuse you of being a racist with bullshit bait such as “why do you think POC cannot compete in the free market without help from the government?”

4- When you bring up discrimination as an obstacle to women and POC, preventing them from achieving results, they will deflect to “we want equal opportunities, you want equal results”, as if the two were not directly related to one another.

5- When you rebuke their points or post a comment they cannot circumvent, they will not engage you in the same thread. But if the point comes up in another thread, they will maliciously try to repeat the same bullshit, in an attempt to propagandize their shitty views. Because let us be clear: they know they are full of shit, they just lie as a means to preserve their power and status.

The more you learn about the ideology, the more you realize they’re nothing more than proto-fascists and actually closer in nature to fascists than conservatives themselves.

Victorious Parasol
9 months ago

@Naglfar

Back when I was a kid, it was Othello. I was gleefully proud of beating grown-ups at that game. I’m out of practice now, but I remember how obnoxious I could be when I won.

Trivia games were my jam as a teenager. I still remember a Trivial Pursuit game where my mom and I were on the same team and she burst out with the answer “Dermis!” when the CORRECT answer (as I knew) was “epidermis.” I was quite cross at her over that.

Later on I gravitated to more collaborative leisure activities so that I could have fun with other people without making them feel bad. Fluxx is about the only card game I still enjoy because it’s a challenge every time and I can be cool about it if I lose.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Diego Duarte

When you bring up discrimination as an obstacle to women and POC, preventing them from achieving results, they will deflect to “we want equal opportunities, you want equal results”, as if the two were not directly related to one another.

Plus, they clearly don’t actually want equal opportunities. If they did, they wouldn’t support privatizing everything and making so many things exclusive to the wealthy.

When you rebuke their points or post a comment they cannot circumvent, they will not engage you in the same thread. But if the point comes up in another thread, they will maliciously try to repeat the same bullshit, in an attempt to propagandize their shitty views. Because let us be clear: they know they are full of shit, they just lie as a means to preserve their power and status.

I’m currently arguing with a TERF in the wrestling thread and they are doing a lot of this as well (especially dodging repeated questions). I think it’s a common thing among bigots.

@Victorious Parasol
I love trivia games. When I was in high school we had regional tournaments for school trivia teams, which I tended to do quite well in.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
9 months ago

@Diego Duarte:

There’s a meme I’ve seen on Tumblr that grimly answers any question of “who invented Minecraft” with “It Fell Mysteriously from Space.” Mind you, since Notch is no longer profiting from Minecraft afaik, this may be a case where it really is possible to separate the art from the creator.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 months ago

Re: Monopoly

The toilets at Marylebone Station are monopoly themed. Google “marylebone station toilets monopoly” for cool pics.

Victorious Parasol
9 months ago

@Alan

I’m gonna have to pass this on to Mr. Parasol. Thanks!

IseultTheIdle
IseultTheIdle
9 months ago

The “in Minecraft” thing is just so they can protest mods who lock or delete their threads. “I was only talking about a video game, bruh!”

It’s as transparent as everything else they do and say.

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