By David Futrelle
In case you’ve forgotten just how vile the discussions on the Incels.co forums can get, here’s a creepy rape manifesto I found there today, written by someone who, remarkably, considers himself kind and gentle.
![[Serious] It’s time for women to have sex with me
Inceldom Discussion
ShySaxon
Jan 16, 2020
Today at 9:58 AM
#1
Now im not a violent person. I’m a peaceful man with a toxic personality and I’m also a misogynist. But that doesn’t matter to women as studies and social experiments have shown. I don’t want to force women to do it but I may have to if they don’t, in Minecraft. I am a kind person really, I won’t hurt you. Please, give me sex. I need it to function as a man, hell, I need it to become a man in the first place. It’s like a trial near adulthood and you ascend to the rank of adult once you have sex. Give it to me. I demand it. You WILL have sex with me, one way or the other.](https://i1.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/2020-02-23_15-32-25.png?fit=425%2C1024)
Naturally, this being Incelsco, most of the regulars replying to this miniature manifesto thought it made a lot of sense. Oh, sure, there were a few suggesting that posting things like this means bad PR for incels if someone like me (or the incel-mockers on the Incel Tears subreddit) were to discover it. And another reminds the OP that simply saying “in Minecraft” after threatening violence against women isn’t going to convince anyone he was really talking about a video game and not something he wants to do in the real world.
But most responses were positive. “It’s only logical,” wrote one commenter. “Go for it bro,” added another.
“I desperately want a pussy,” wrote a third..
Denying us sex is like denying someone his birthright. FUCK WHAT BLUEPILLERS SAY. I am a human and I should be entitled to sex.
Still another commenter thought his sex life should be the government’s business.
It should be a law for women to lose their virginities to incels before they go on to whore with chads
None of these commenters are drive-by trolls. Each one of them has posted more than a thousand comments on Incels.co; the guy saying “go for it” has posted more than 9000 (literally). This is how ideas like these get normalized in Incel spaces; this is how violent fantasies can turn into plans for action.
Incel forums aren’t “safe spaces” where unfortunate souls can harmlessly vent their frustrations. They’re hate magnifiers, empowering the worst impulses of everyone that posts to them. They need to be shut down.
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Did anyone else find the Minecraft reference odd? I haven’t played in a while, but I don’t recall the game having a sexual component. The whole game for me is kind of tainted by Notch becoming a white supremacist, misogynist, and transphobe, so I haven’t really played much lately even though he was no longer associated with Minecraft when he said that.
Non-sequitur.
Out of curiosity, do most men think this?
Who wants to bet the man who said that calls himself a “small government conservative” or “libertarian”? Conservatives love big government so long as it is in uteruses and people’s bedrooms.
This guy is mess of self-contradiction.
He is a man, but not a man.
He is not violent, but he is violent.
His misogyny and toxic personnality aren’t an issue for him to get sex, but it is since he is an incel.
I beg you give me sex, but if not I’ll rape you.
I can get sex, but I can’t get sex.
This is probably one of the most pathetic kind of humane alive. The only good thing is that he is more cowardly and weak willed than he is bitter and ragefilled. As long as he complains and mope on internet he isn’t harming anybody.
No one can give anyone sex. It’s an activity, not a magic wand or a cheeseburger. That’s like asking to be given soccer or dance or figure skating. How don’t these guys get this?
I’m an unattractive, often unloved woman and it has never even occurred to me that men should “give me” sex like it was a box of chocolates. Because that’s not how any of this works.
Sort of – ish. It’s considered a sign of adulthood amongst men to enter your first real relationship with a woman (or man should the sbject be gay). It’s not about sex, it’s more than that.
At least that’s how I see it.
@epronovost
I’d say he is causing harm. By reinforcing and propagating these ideas among his fellow incels, he is spreading his noxious views and increasing the odds that one of those men will one day snap and commit a mass murder like Elliot Rodger or Alek Minassian. The OP may not be directly killing anyone, but I would say in that event he would bear some of the responsibility for the murders.
@Jarnsaxa
The mindset of sex as something to be given by women to men is one that I strongly dislike. In addition to the obvious misogyny, it reduces sex from a potentially enjoyable activity to a chore or status sign. I much prefer to see sex as a collaborative activity for two (or more) adults.
Side note: just noticed that OP’s tagline says “Anglo-Aryancel.” I’m reasonably certain that’s a white nationalist dogwhistle.
@Naglfar
Fuck. It’s a shame to hear that. I can’t refund Minecraft now (although I bought the cheaper Pocket Edition on Google Play) because I’ve passed the refund window I believe. I can uninstall it but the damage has been done.
Minecraft never appealed to me anyway because of the blocky aesthetic. However I wanted to play with a group of people from a fandom community, some of them whose very existence would offend Notch (quite a significant number of LGBT and/or PoC individuals too, and most of the fandom do not identify in a masculine manner – also, many are under or closer to 18 than 25, so Notch would posit them as victims of a “degenerate” system).
While I prefer first person shooter games and other games that don’t have such a blocky aesthetic, I got fucking sick of conservative scum in online environments, and sucking at said games too. I should play single player games but I feel lonely playing them.
@Jarnsaxa. You are right, of course. But we do ask someone if we can “have this dance.” Just a linguistic observation: you are right in the essentials.
ShySaxon have you considered not to come off as a rapist?
That sex is a rite of passage? Eh. To some extent maybe, but I would submit there is plenty of pop culture that uses the “now I’m a real woman” equivalent too.
I do at times despair of my gender, but I’m not sure “now that I’ve gotten laid I’m a real man” is necessarily the worst example of toxic masculinity – of course assuming consensual sex.
GIVE ME TENNIS. I DEMAND IT.
I am a terrible player and hate everyone who plays, but studies and social experiments have shown that it doesn’t matter. I should still get to go to Wimbledon.
@GAZZA:
It’s a lot more associated with getting your period. And to me, that makes a lot more sense (even though I think it’s stupid too, as it erases everyone not cis) – it at least signifies that your body is maturing, whereas sex doesn’t have to have anything to do with that, unfortunately.
The other problem with this idea that sex makes a man a man is that it is likely quite hurtful to male rape victims. A man who was molested as a boy would probably be offended by the suggestion that it “made him a man.” It also would seem to belittle the suffering of such victims.
Oh I wasn’t arguing that it was a healthy idea at all.
@GAZZA
I know, I wasn’t responding to you in particular. I was ruminating on the idea in general. Sorry if what I said seemed like an attack, it wasn’t meant to be one.
And they wonder why we’d rather have cats on our own than sex with them.
Yeah, I wonder too. In Minecraft.
As an avid Minecraft player I must say that the idea it’s at all favoured by incels leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I’m not going let these guys spoil it for me.
And sure Naglfar, we’re totes cool – I was just making sure you didn’t think I was advocating that sort of nonsense, as an infrequent poster here I felt it was important to emphasise that. 🙂
Agreed . a lot of great things are enjoyed by horrible people but we can’t let that stop us from still enjoying it our selves.
Word to the wise — women find misogyny a huge turnoff.
And if these men say they need sex so badly, why don’t they simply visit a sex worker? Are they too cheap? Or do they view sex workers as somehow beneath them?
Beneath them. they think it doesn’t count if she isn’t a 16 year old who looks like a hot 22 year old porn star who is a virgin.
Re: “in minecraft”
It’s common in white supremacist circles to refer to doing violent acts “in minecraft” when discussing them (as if that would ever actually shield a person from liability, but they’re not the smartest bunch.) Seems like that’s, unsurprisingly, leaking into the incel community
Incels seem to be generally aware that buying sex doesn’t grant you real sex-haver status because it’s not a social accomplishment. For some reason, they don’t seem to think the same applies to rape or pity sex.
Could it be that “… in Minecraft” is a general purpose meme for denoting fantasy-like non-seriousness in internet edgelord communities?
@Ginger: Sex workers don’t count. It doesn’t give them the validation or feeling of conquest that they crave more than the actual sex, not that they’d word it exactly like that. Incels who have engaged in the services of a sex worker are sometimes referred to as “escortcels”.
Which is probably a good thing that most of them don’t try. As a former sex worker, I don’t wish that kind of person on any of them.
I read that as “Ginger sex workers don’t count”, and thought, “What have you got against redheads?” 🙂
A lot of sign of an “ironic” nazi. All in all, he probably should be under terrorism watch.