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No, the racist mass shooter in Hanau, Germany was NOT an incel

A makeshift memorial for the victims in Hanau

By David Futrelle

On Wednesday night, a gunman opened fire on patrons at two separate hookah bars in Hanau, Germany, killing nine; he and his elderly mother were later found dead in his apartment.

Like many mass shooters today, he left behind a manifesto (link available on request), one that revealed him to be a genocidal racist and eugenicist who wanted the people in a wide swath of countries — from North Africa all the way to the Philippines — to be wiped off the face of the earth. His massacre — which seems to have been directed at Turkish immigrants, the main patrons of the bars he chose to target — was his way of getting attention to his genocidal ideas.

He also wove a strange and paranoid tale about his own life, claiming that he had been monitored since birth by a shadowy agency eager to hear and capitalize on his thoughts. He claims, among other things, that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were his idea, that Donald Trump stole his slogan “America First,” and that he came up with the basic premises of a number of Hollywood movies and TV shows, from “Look Who’s Talking,” “The Cell,” and “Prison Break.” He also believes that the “invisible people” monitoring him can read (and control) minds. This portion of his manifesto reads less like a political declaration than the ramblings of a paranoid schizophrenic.

The 43-year-old shooter also made a few remarks, almost in passing, suggesting that he had never had a girlfriend, and some have taken this to mean that he was an “incel” This non-factual “fact” has made it into several news stories so far, and even onto Wikipedia,with The Sun describing him in a headline as an “‘Incel’ terrorist” and offering up a potted history of the incel movement to explain his rage. Meanwhile, The Independent (which should know better) made the contradictory claim that he

identified as an “incel”, and wrote that he had not been in a relationship with a woman, out of choice, for the past 18 years. 

You can see the problem immediately; this is a claim that rebuts itself. “Incel” stands for “involuntary celibate”; anyone who claims to be celibate by choice is by definition not an incel. The shooter claims that in his younger years, from his mid-teens through his early twenties, he simply could not find a girlfriend who lived up to his exacting standards. “[T]o take a less good looking woman,” he wrote, “was out of the question – I wanted the best or nothing.”

In the years since then, he claimed that he remained single because “I know that I’m being monitored.”

There is no trace of the incel ideology anywhere in the shooter’s manifesto — no incel lingo, no rants against too-picky “femoids”or too-handsome Chads, no disquisitions on some lost golden age when every good man was able to date and ultimately marry his “looksmatch.” Unlike incels, the shooter did not blame women for rejecting him, nor (as far as we can tell from the manifesto) did he blame society for encouraging these women to “ride the cock carousel” with everyone but him.

Incel ideology is all about cultivating a deep sense of grievance toward women and feminism; the shooter’s grievances were directed at immigrants and Muslims and people of color generally — mostly North Africans, Middle Easterners, and South Asians — and at the people he imagined were monitoring him. If the shooter was even aware of the incel movement, there’s no evidence of it in the manifesto itself.

Indeed, though one imagines the shooter was radicalized at least in part online, as every right-wing extremist seems to be these days, there’s little in his manifesto suggesting just where, online or off, he got any of his ideas. There are no references to other mass shooters, no mention of the “great replacement” theory or the alt-right vision of “white genocide”, no sly allusions to 4chan memes. And while he lists Israel as one of the countries whose people deserve to die en masse, his conspiracy theories make no mention of Jews at all. A brief video he made aimed at Americans referred to an underground network of satanic baby-abusers, but made no reference to Pizzagate or QAnon.

In short, he’s given those us trying to make sense of his motivations plenty to work with. But, while his genocidal racism is certainly clear and obvious, he remains in many ways a mystery — and will remain so unless and until we find more evidence of his beliefs.

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David Rose
David Rose
1 year ago

This is absolutely heinous. Let me be the first to jump in and say that delusions and/or schizophrenia don’t make a person violent. (The regular commenters know this but is seems like a reminder is always in order for those who haven’t read the comments policy closely yet.)

I’ve had psychotic episodes in the recent past. “Psychotic” sounds so dramatic, but really it’s just a tendency to believe things without any basis in reality, taken to the extreme. For example, I very recently believed without a doubt that David F and some commenters on this blog were sending me coded messages. (Not to worry; medication has helped.)

I’ve never even considered hurting anyone but myself as a result of these experiences. Or blaming giant swathes of the human race arbitrarily.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

the ramblings of a paranoid schizophrenic

I don’t want to make internet diagnoses, so I will just say that this is a new level of conspiratorial thinking that seems rather unprecedented. Just the sheer number of things he seems to have thrown in. And the taking credit for the movies and Trump’s slogan is unusual—I haven’t seen anyone else do that. This doesn’t seem as clear-cut as other cases of far right terrorism: we have a motive, but it seems different from other similar terrorist backstories.

The thing that is really concerning is how desensitized we are to shootings like this at this point. Shootings happen every day, we no longer have time to mourn.

BBBB
BBBB
1 year ago

Lot of parallels between this shooter and the QAnon believers, which is pretty darn scary. These people are expecting a bloodbath, with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama being executed on live television, and if they don’t get it, some of them might try to take matters into their own hands.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@BBBB
They remind me a bit of the dominionists. Dominionists think that if the end times don’t roll around, they should try to make them come. These guys think that if the promised executions don’t come, they should do it themselves. Both are terrifying yet many believe in those ideologies.

Talonknife
Talonknife
1 year ago

The description of his manifesto reminds me a bit of a more racist John Hinckley, Jr.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

This is again ot but I’m rewatching the batman series from my childhood and they straight up have an incel character that just turned himself into a clay monster just to find out no matter how he changes his look, he can’t act so no one wants to higher him and now he’s on a rampage.

NOBODY
NOBODY
1 year ago

Both are terrifying yet many believe in those ideologies.

Possibly, but definitely they are emotionally over invested in fulfilling these ideologies, and when reality is not in agreement, they become emotionally unstable. Black and White thinking is exacerbated. They NEED it to be true, like an addict needs a fix.

And it’s hard to know which drives them over the edge, the ideas or the need for them to be validated by violence.

There needs to be the social equivalent of methadone for these people… maybe hard labor with therapy

Otrame
Otrame
1 year ago

Most schizophrenics have their first psychotic break in their early to mid 20s and it sounds like he had a big change in his life about then. This guy sounds like he was a paranoid schizophrenic. Some of what he wrote is pretty classic.

While most schizophrenics are very mild-mannered, pleasant people (I’ve known several, two of whom were not on meds at the time I knew them), paranoids are slightly more likely to become violent. But even paranoids are actually much less likely to be violent than the average population, so even if I’m right about him, he is very much an outlier.

Some people seem to think all violent “lone terrorists” are mentally ill, but I tend to think of them as someone throwing a temper tantrum. Personality disorders, for sure, but not insane. This guy may be an exception though, someone actually psychotic. If that’s true, I’d almost rather the incels get blamed for what happened rather than his schizophrenia. Almost. Only because people with schizophrenia don’t need this bullshit piled on them, whereas incels seem to enjoy wallowing in their disfunction.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

Some of the people that believe in thoses conspirational ideologies need something as simple as a decent living. Despair damage the psyche rather badly at time.

Of course, they are still assholes by reacting like that instead of more constructive ways.

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

To those who wanted to downplay white oppression against non white men, I stand today proud and vindicted…I am pretty sure this won’t be designated as terrorism and will be chalked down to “mental.health”… If a man chooses to be single his whole life, he needs then Buddhism and NoFap else a single man will push his brain into ever weirder conspiracy theories

Buddham saranam gacchami,
Dhammam saranam gacchami,
Sangham saranam gacchami

rv97
rv97
1 year ago

Since Turkish migrants were mentioned here, I want to say Turkey has lots of problems since the AKP took power. People need to be persuaded against voting them, and killing immigrants that may want to escape the capitalist, fundamentalist and overall authoritarian regime gives Turks less hope of a better life and may empower more authoritarianism.

As someone from the Philippines, while our country and people have lots of problems that do need to be fixed, he wants to genocide a people who are known for their warm personality towards others and who possess a vibrant and unique culture. I’ve heard some anecdotes that patients where I live are beginning to prefer staff from the Philippines because of their hospitality.

Such a genocidal mentality will only attract more hate.

Psiana
Psiana
1 year ago

Right wing terrorism is definitely a systemic problem. It’s so disgusting that this is always blamed on mentally ill people.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

@SRLO : no, you stand neither proud nor vindicted. Also, reading what the article say and what the comment are is probably a good idea.

You have a serious problem of thinking shouting “I am right” at random fact constitute a reasoning.

TheKND
TheKND
1 year ago

@SRLO
Maybe a story that starts with “nine people are dead now” isn’t a reason to “stand proud and vindicted”.
Seriously, tact!

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@SRLO

To those who wanted to downplay white oppression against non white men, I stand today proud and vindicted

Nobody is trying to downplay such oppression. In the last thread we were arguing that women are oppressed as well and you had to drag the Holocaust in for some reason. Not sure how this is a vindication.

If a man chooses to be single his whole life, he needs then Buddhism and NoFap else a single man will push his brain into ever weirder conspiracy theories

This isn’t the best time to push your ideology, seeing as nine people just died.

C.A. Collins
C.A. Collins
1 year ago

I’m thinking the new troll is seriously short of amusement value. Can they be traded in?

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

Wow way to pull out your dick at a funeral and talk about how great it is semen boy

Daughter
Daughter
1 year ago

@SRLO

You disgusting ghoul. These people are dead and you use their deaths to push your esoteric wanking habits.

How dare you?

Please do not ever come to Hanau. Leave us to mourn in peace.

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

@Daughter

I hope these are the last deaths before white countries wake up from their continuing madness…The same madness that led these countries to use nuclear weapons upon children and pregnant women of Fallujah…to this day children are born with serious birth defects …”Ghoul”—-What an interesting choice of words!!! The same word whites have used since time immemorial in derogatory sense against men from the Middle East…why am I not surprised that this very word was used on a day when many Kurdish brothers and sisters fell?

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@SRLO

I hope these are the last deaths before white countries wake up from their continuing madness…

If you want thing to change, take up political activism, not rambling about semen.

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

@Naglfar

It is better to help individuals to build better lives and construct fortresses of emotional,financial,health and physical security…Activism will bring nothing as powerful people have deeply entrenched networks through which they will continue to oppress the people…nothing other than revolution that overthrows the present order will work.. a more equitable world order where a Bangladeshi woman whose mother was crushed under the concrete boulders of a collapsing garments factory has as much voice as a champagne feminist or a nightclub feminist

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Not the worst flounce, as it lasted a couple of days. Points off for falsely claiming that people here downplay racism though.

6/10 for now. Subject to going down if SRLO continues to act like an ass.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@SRLO

It is better to help individuals to build better lives and construct fortresses of emotional,financial,health and physical security

And you are doing that how?
Also, that wouldn’t stop the far right extremists like the Hanau killer. His actions were a product of extreme political views supported by the rising global far right wing. And that is something that needs to be stopped.

nothing other than revolution that overthrows the present order will work

And until the revolution we should just suck it up?

I’ve heard this argument before. For many of us, waiting for a revolution isn’t an option, and we need to make things better in the interim whether a revolution is coming or not. Plus, revolutions don’t always end well (c.f. the French Revolution, China’s cultural revolution).

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

”Ghoul”—-What an interesting choice of words!!! The same word whites have used since time immemorial in derogatory sense against men from the Middle East…

… What? I’ve genuinely never heard of the word ghoul being used as a racial slur. In English, it’s generally used to refer to someone who is inappropriately gleeful or fixated on death, and doesn’t have any racial connotations. It’s a loanword from Persian, but English has tons of loanwords that aren’t slurs.

Is the term used in a derogatory fashion in a different language? Or are you just accusing the commentariat of bigotry because you seem to think that’s the only way to win an argument?

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Semen

Okay since your gonna be an ass, me and my big white titties that your so afraid of are gonna go call my brown husband and steal his sexual semen power before he goes to bed

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

… What? I’ve genuinely never heard of the word ghoul being used as a racial slur. In English, it’s generally used to refer to someone who is inappropriately gleeful or fixated on death, and doesn’t have any racial connotations. It’s a loanword from Persian, but English has tons of loanwords that aren’t slurs.

I’m about as white as you can get if you don’t count like the drop of native American that comes from a couple great great greats back when my iris ancestries came to America to escape the famine and one of those gals fell in love with a native American man, they ran off with each other and started the long path that would lead to me, only thing I’ve got from that side of him was some high cheek bones and brown eyes.

Yet I have been called a “ghoul” as a play on girl since I was in 7th grade then up till my senior year of high school because I was the definition of a weird little girl meme. Still for some reason remember the creep that would make a point to tell me he wasn’t looking for a “ghoulfriend” every time I fought back against his abuse. So yeah, semen balls is reaching I think.

Also the middle eastern kids or exchange students would get called terrorist or “sand n words”

Cats In Shiny Hats
Cats In Shiny Hats
1 year ago

SRLO was much more entertaining before he got on the persecution train. Please go back to the weird semen mysticism and stop blaming all the darkness in human history on white women.

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

@Naglfar

A rising Global Left Wing could have been constructed at least 20 years back , if it was not for the intransigency of the White Left…now, the Left is just caught up in fire fighting mode…We face Global challenges which will disproportionately affect non-white people…It’s time to drop pretense and sees ourselves as what we really are—>stakeholders of this entire planet …nuclear clouds or natural catastrophes won’t respect immigration laws and the boundaries of “sovereign” nations…What we are in store for is 500x worse than the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami

Why can’t the Left counter the smooth talk of the Right? Right Wing hypocrite upstarts like Nick Fuentes have started to feel for black people only now …Only now Right Wing men have started to “feel” that black people constitue one of the three historic groups of Americans along with “whites” and “native Americans”…BS BS BS BS……These men want to have black people especially black men as a permanent underclass over whom they can lord and terrorize in perpetuity…should blacks so easily forgive “one drop rule” insinuating in turn that black blood is inherently wrong?

These men are afraid that blacks may collaborate with the new and old brownsin order to be freed from forced servitude that has plagued them in the American nation for so long..Black men are to this day wrongly jailed because the white elite is afraid that armed black men may form militias to fight for an independent black nation on the North American continent..The Toyota War of the 1980s scared the living daylights of the Global White Elite…Here was a black nation equipped with little other than pick up trucks and assault rifles taking on an army armed to the teeth with the best of modern weapons and still winning…what are the things that are abundant in America? Pick up trucks and assault rifles….so began the mass incarceration of black men to abort the Birth of a Nation…the Birth of the Black Nation

anyways I digressed too far

I think I wrote extensively in the previous thread what I do regarding helping individual lives

@Catalpa

History is replete with references regarding the consequences of insulting non-white men with animal-like epithets

genocide,pogrom,slavery,forced labour soon follows

Am I wrong to nip that problem in the bud?

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

@Lainy

go ahead..as long as you are okay about hurting his chances of being able to provide you with the best possible life, I have no problem with it

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Semen

I don’t need him to provide for me, I’m a adult, with a job and in school to get a career. You misogyne is showing really well now dude.

” Oh no! how will I ever go on if a big strong man can’t provide for me! I am such an invalid I can’t possibly make a life for myself or build a life with him! oh no you have shown me the error of my ways oh brave semen boy!”

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

@Lainy

I wish you the very best with your school and career

Sure he doesn’t …but it just helps you sleep better at night that you have two good earning heads instead of one….A well rested sleep should not be the privilege of the powerful

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@ semen

He’s a marine dude. He never really sleeps until he’s home. In fact him not being stressed and in the hyper masculine culture of the Marines and sexually frustrated actually helps him a lot so yeah me calling him to have a wank session before bed is actually good for him.

Also nice back peddling there.

Also again sleep only for the powerful? Am I the powerful because of my white skin? It certainly makes me more privilege then those who don’t have it but he actually sleeps better then me most nights. Most of my sleep is either insomnia, night terrors, anxiety and some times full screaming. Yup I’m certainly powerful my dude.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

The same word whites have used since time immemorial

Am I wrong to nip that problem in the bud?

Wait, I’m confused, is this something that’s been happening since time immemorial or something you’re trying to stop as it starts?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

It’s ever increasingly laughable to claim that the semen retention community is not misogynistic. Coming into a thread about a male mass murderer and derailing the conversation into a discussion of whether women are bad and men’s crimes are all our fault is classic MRA.

-6/10

SRLO lost points fast.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

History is replete with references regarding the consequences of insulting non-white men with animal-like epithets

Well mine certainly can be an animal. It’s one of the reasons i fell in love with him so fast😉

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Also “whites” have not existed since time immemorial. Whiteness as an identity only goes back a few hundred years.

That’s not to racism didn’t exist before that, but racism changes with time and culture to suit whatever the privileged need.

C.A. Collins
C.A. Collins
1 year ago

I’d go with 3/10; points for SGP, but not logic, or arguments in good faith.

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

@Lainy

my warmest regards to your husband…I wish both of the very best of conjugal life till the time comes to step into the Great Beyond
I apologize for having any opinion whatsoever on what happens between both of you in the marital bed.That intimacy is sacred and any outsider should not have any opinion on it whatsoever..Moreover marriage brings it with its own blessings, spiritual protection and rewards

@Catalpa

I am trying to stop the use of such non-human epithets for non-white men in this thread…obviously the wider world is beyond my control

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

This guy really wants to play oppression Olympics. Let’s not, ok, dude? I understand you’ve experienced oppression. That sucks! It doesn’t bar us, however, from examining and criticizing your terrible ideas. Also, there are many groups aside from white women that have been simultaneously oppressed AND complicit in oppression of others. This is not an excuse and it isn’t ok, but it does happen. One example: the lack of acceptance of bi and pan people by more ‘traditional’ lesbians and gays. Yes, those people are oppressed, and they are simultaneously oppressing other groups.

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

@Yutolia

You should tell white men that it is white men who committed the world’s largest mass rape on white women at the end of the 2nd world war…black or brown men had nothing to do with it…it’s funny how modern german and russian men tend to ally themselves in order to fight black and brown men, when it is one group that terrorized the women of the other group barely three generations back

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@semen

So white woman who are raped by men of color don’t matter because their a smaller number? As a member of that number go fuck yourself. Maybe you won’t be such a dick then.

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

Ummmmmm? Really? We’ve been trying to tell white men this for a long time. Have you read any other parts of this blog?

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@SRLO
Nobody is saying that atrocities haven’t been committed. Men definitely have done awful things in the past and present. I’m not sure what this has to do with what Yutolia said.

Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
Semen_Retention_Liaison_Officer
1 year ago

@Lainy

I am extremely sorry and sincere apologies if you thought that was refrain of my argument ..women have had a bad deal meted out to them since the rise of agriculture—that is undeniable…What I am saying is that for the longest time being white even while being a woman would have afforded one life saving privileges that would not have been available if one were to be non-white even while being a man

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

The major reason the US as a country doesn’t talk about those mass rapes is because we have refused to acknowledge ANY soviet involvement in the war at all other than ‘the Russians were useless and Germans were beaten by the winter and that’s all, no more to that story, don’t talk about anything, the US saved the entire world single-handedly because we’re magic and special!!!!’

Most Americans don’t talk about the mass rapes because a lot of them don’t even know they happened.

But, like Naglfar said, I also don’t know really what this has to do with what I said earlier. Also, it’s still not my responsibility to educate white men about their bullshit.

Tabby Lavalamp
Tabby Lavalamp
1 year ago

The Sun wants to paint him as an incel terrorist rather than a far right racist, you say? Gee. I wonder why that is.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

I am trying to stop the use of such non-human epithets for non-white men in this thread

I can see the argument for that.

But it is one thing to go “hey, dehumanizing insults have been disproportionately been used against POC, can we avoid the use of non-human epithets?”

And a completely different thing to go “Aha! That word that has no established racial connotations is actually a slur with tons of historical baggage (which I shall not elaborate on)! You are clearly a huge racist and I don’t need to listen to you any more!”

white men who committed the world’s largest mass rape on white women at the end of the 2nd world war

Wait, so Western (which you seem to be using as a synonym for ‘white’, even though it isn’t) women were oppressed before Obama? Or does the mass rape not count as oppression because the Holocaust happened around that time and only one group can be oppressed at a time?

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

@SRLO – what the hell, friend. What the actual hell.

Why would you think this thread was the one to be horrible in?

Re: ‘white’ as an idea – in the last thread, i called him out on this, and linked to the wiki page talking about it. If he doesn’t know by now, it’s because he’s willfully ignoring information that contradicts his beliefs. I even gave hin the term he could use – ruling class – and he ignored me. Guess it wasn’t racially charged enough for him.

Louder, so he can maybe read it – THE IDEA OF BEING ‘WHITE’ IS FAIRLY NEW.

Re: ghoul – you said

History is replete with references regarding the consequences of insulting non-white men with animal-like epithets

I’m wondering if i should believe that when you were confronted with a word that accurately described your actions, and then had the definition explained, you again stuck your fingers in your ears so you could continue to live in the world you created.

Words mean things. Ghoul has nothing to do with animals.

Here is the definition:

an evil spirit that eats dead bodies
informal
someone who is very interested in death and unpleasant things

You’re the second.

Re: him bringing up atrocoties – this is what he DOES. He can’t find a rebuttal for a good point, so he tries to distract with something horrible.

SRLO – You’re pretty transparently a person with terrible ideas.

ETA – right, Obama! Forgot about that. How does ‘women have only been oppressed since Obama’ square with

women have had a bad deal meted out to them since the rise of agriculture

?

Could it be that, yet again, your philosophy isn’t internally consistent? Could it also be that you’ll ignore that, rather than trying to figure it out?

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@semen

I don’t trust you but I will accept your apology because I believe it to be sincere at least.

To be clear men do not rape because of the color of their skin. Men rape because they are allowed to do so by society. I will never hold all men of color accountable because of one’s crimes against me.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Yutolia

Most Americans don’t talk about the mass rapes because a lot of them don’t even know they happened.

Or because for many of the mass rapes and genocides the US government actively worked to suppress knowledge of their existence. For example, the fact that the US government didn’t recognize the Armenian genocide as such until 2019, 105 years after it happened.

@Tabby Lavalamp

The Sun wants to paint him as an incel terrorist rather than a far right racist, you say? Gee. I wonder why that is.

And even if he was an incel, the Venn diagram of these two groups is probably a set of concentric circles. There are far right racists who aren’t incels, but I have yet to see an incel who isn’t also extreme right wing and racist.

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