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cis-splaining gender policing transmisogyny transphobia

Ex-pro-wrestler Val Venis loses it on Twitter after trans wrestler Nyla Rose is crowned women’s champion

You might consider sitting this one out, Val

By David Futrelle

On Wednesday night, pro wrestler Nyla Rose was crowned All Elite Wrestling Women’s World Champion after defeating rival Riho in a scripted match. What made this an especially dramatic moment in the already plenty dramatic world of pro wrestling was that Rose is a trans woman.

Rose’s win, not surprisingly, triggered a transphobic backlash, with some of wrestling’s more backwards fans attacking Rose on social media. But no one seems to be quite as mad about her win as retired pro wrestler Val Venis, who has been loudly broadcasting his displeasure on Twitter for several days straight now.

Here’s a little sampling of his, er, work. As you’ll see, his ALL-CAPS key has been getting quite the workout.

Naturally, he’s trying to present himself as the champion of “REAL WOMEN” against evil soyboy SJWs and “the male species” in general.


He’s also trying his hand at humor, but he’s basically only got the one joke.

Or maybe two jokes?

I would offer some sort of rebuttal to all of these but I’m not sure I have anything to add to this tweet from Twitter MuFo and self-designated “wrestlebitch” Rivka Gheist, describing VEnis, fairly accurately, as a “fucking haggard old pissbaby” and declaring that

Trans women are women, I would happily have them in my locker rooms and face them in the ring. Wrestling is for everyone, including those gender-expansive identities. … Congratulations Nyla Rose, on your historic win!

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

H/T — Thanks to Lizuka, who alerted me to Venis’ meltdown

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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Croi
Croi
4 years ago

Naglfar, you asked me for one example and I gave it. There are loads of examples of transwomen attacking women. Google Karen White for instance. Do you really want me to keep going? There are websites devoted to keeping track. But I’m not comfortable with it because I don’t think all transwomen are violent any more than all men are. You challenged me to find one example and I did. Proportionately, transwomen are more violent than women because men are more violent than women. Did you know that one in 50 inmates in male prisons in Britain now claim to be trans? If transwomen had the same offending patterns as women, that number would be far lower.

GC feminists don’t ally with Nazis. Thing is, not believing in the doctrine of the female penis is a very broad church. It’s like believing water is wet. Nazis and feminists might happen to share that belief but that doesn’t mean they agree on anything else.

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

Proportionately, transwomen are more violent than women because men are more violent than women.

First thing, fuck you.

Did you know that one in 50 inmates in male prisons in Britain now claim to be trans? If transwomen had the same offending patterns as women, that number would be far lower.

This is incredibly disingenuous. You are conflating crime with violence, when it very much is not the same thing. There are huge numbers of nonviolent crimes that land people in jail, such as drug charges and sex work charges.

And since trans women are disproportionately marginalized and therefore more likely to be in poverty, exposed to drugs, and limited to sex work in order to support themselves, it would be reasonable to assume that trans women would make up a larger portion of the population targeted by the police than cis women.

Hey, did you know that black people are incarcerated at a higher rate than white people? Are you going to argue that black people are innately more violent than white people, too?

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Croi

GC feminists don’t ally with Nazis.

Take that up with your own. You can’t just No True Scotsman it all away.

Did you know that one in 50 inmates in male prisons in Britain now claim to be trans?

Actually, that’s less than the percentage of trans* people in general society (about 1 in 25 people is trans* IIRC). So no, I’m not surprised nor do I see trans* women prisoners as a threat. They are in fact more likely to be abused by other prisoners than cishet prisoners.

Thing is, not believing in the doctrine of the female penis is a very broad church.

Indeed, bigotry is popular. Though generally I would hope that when someone holds a belief, they’d take a good look around at who shares in that view. I know I’d have second thoughts if I found myself sharing talking points with Nazis.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
4 years ago

I would also like to know why TERFs are a-ok taking money from conservative groups? I notice that you completely ignored all my links.

Possibly because you couldn’t argue against specifics…?

Also, hey, AFAB here who is like… 75% sure they are a trans dude. I notice you also didn’t pick up on my very subtle “not all the transes are woman transes” sentence.

Why is there such a huge focus on policing one type of trans people, i wonder?

Re: femininity is innate with female biology – LOLOLOLOLOLLLLLLLLL

*Takes a breath*

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLLLLLLL

*wipes tears from eyes*

Friend. No.

No, i can confidently, 100% tell you that it is not. I am an older person (when does middle age technically start?) And i could count the amount of times in my life i’ve called myself a ‘woman’ on one hand.

What does it mean, i would wonder? Everyone sees me as a woman, but what does that mean?

I have a period, and that ‘makes me a woman’. I could have children, again, that’s a woman thing.

This, of course, means that anyone without these markers have now lost their woman card. Can’t have children? Not a biological woman. Lost your breasts/ovaries/whatever to an illness? Not a woman any more.

I don’t think you would say an infertile woman isn’t a woman. Or that a woman on hormonal birth control is no longer a woman.

I mean, *I* wouldn’t, but i doubt you’ll answer me, since you completely ignored me before.

I don’t like pink or dresses, but i do enjoy baking and sewing. I will suffer through a rom com, but love true crime. I enjoy being around kids, but the thought of being pregnant is enough for me to feel a wave of dread sweep over me.

I don’t like fight scenes, and i couldn’t care less about car chases. I don’t like to drink hard, and i get upset when people are needlessly mean. I try to be a good listener.

So, at the end, what am i?

Gender roles are bullshit and can go die in a fire.

They are like horoscopes, just because you’re born into something doesn’t mean that it applies to you. After all, there are huge numbers of gemini in the population, surely their traits aren’t predetermined at birth by an artificially created concept like the relationships stars have to *our* relationships?

I don’t know what, exactly, masculinity is. I struggle to define both it as well as femininity. How do you define it, without leaning on either artificially constructed gender roles, or biology?

I just know that when people use ‘she’ to refer to me, it hurts. I know that i wish i’d learned about binding when i was a teen, i always hated that all freaking bras had padding to make a small chest look bigger. I know the thought of having to go a day without binding makes me want to cry.

I know i spent most of my life living only behind my eyes, never connected to my body. Every so often, i would hear my voice recorded (oh my god, it’s so high!) Or catch a glimpse of myself in a mirror, and be thrown… not out of my body, i didn’t dissociate, but close. Because how did i expect people to see *me*, to know *me*, if that was what i looked like?

The first time i connected to my body was when i was in my mid thirties, and got my hair cut off. If i had been alone, i would have broken down.

The first time i wore a binder i had made (safely, i don’t want to hurt myself. I can sew, it was the same pattern as GC2B. I HIGHLY recommend those for anyone else with a small chest, all i can personally attest to.) i did cry.

Once, i was talking to this fella trying to buy something off of kijiji, and he thought i was a man. He was a scoundrel who was trying to cheat me, but that memory is a fond one.

Anyway, now i’ve shared more details than i intended. You didn’t ask me to bleed all over the page, but the only way you might understand requires people to bare their pain and their souls again and again, so that maybe people will stop believing things that hurt us.

I also know that, if you think of trans men at all, usually a transphobe will declare that they are just confused butch lesbians, eliminating gay trans men all together.

I don’t know what i expect from you. I’m sure you’re too far down the transphobe rabbit hole to see that your connection to your innate gender identity is not something that everyone shares, and is in fact what makes you a cis person.

Maybe a lurker will see themselves in what i wrote. If you do, i offer you tissues and a fist bump, if you’d like. Navigating this stuff us hellish.

Unknown lurker, you’re doing awesome, no matter how you present, or how people read you.

You are you, and you’re great.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Rhuu

Why is there such a huge focus on policing one type of trans people, i wonder?

Probably because of sexism. Transphobes think trans* women are men, and that men are more violent than women (and that women are weaker, how very feminist of them). They also believe the inverse about trans* men.

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

@Naglfar

I believe some TERFs have the thought process that, since women are oppressed under the current system, trans men are just trying to grab some of that male privilege for themselves, and that’s why they transition.

Alternatively, since being a woman is a downgrade in our society when it comes to power and oppression, then the only reason why trans women would want to transition is so they can gain access to women-only spaces (and assault “real” women). Hence why they claim all trans women are predators.

It’s a intensely gross argument and it completely ignores how important identity is to people, but TERFs are gonna TERF.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
4 years ago

Here’s the twitter thread I linked earlier, about your laughably poor understanding of science. Since, again, you clearly didn’t read it – here it is in image format.

comment image

comment image

comment image

The XX/XY thing you learned in high school science? Hate to break it to you, but that was heckin’ simplified, to be able to explain genetics to young adults.

Here’s a link to the thread again.

Croi
Croi
4 years ago

Ok, a lot to answer. Here goes:

This is incredibly disingenuous. You are conflating crime with violence, when it very much is not the same thing

To go to prison in Britain you have to do something pretty serious. And there are many examples of serious criminals claiming to be trans. Including the most violent criminal in Scotland! https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-prisoner-branded-one-scotlands-11837767

Actually, that’s less than the percentage of trans* people in general society (about 1 in 25 people is trans* IIRC).

Hahaha rubbish! Only a tiny proportion of people believe they’re in the wrong bodies. Even most TRAs agree on that. If it was 4% of the population how come it wasn’t noticed until now?

bigotry is popular

The definition of bigotry is actually refusing to tolerate other people’s views. You are the bigot. I tolerate your views, I just don’t agree with them.

Got to go… Back soon (I hope).

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Croi

The definition of bigotry is actually refusing to tolerate other people’s views. You are the bigot. I tolerate your views, I just don’t agree with them.

Callback to what Rhuu said about the paradox of intolerance. I’m not tolerating your ideas because you belong to a movement that wishes to strip me of my rights. Think about it this way: if a synagogue doesn’t want to give a platform to a Nazi, are they bigoted?

Hahaha rubbish! Only a tiny proportion of people believe they’re in the wrong bodies. Even most TRAs agree on that. If it was 4% of the population how come it wasn’t noticed until now?

We have been noticed in various cultures worldwide which recognized trans* people centuries ago. It is mostly in the aftermath of colonialism that binary gender systems have been imposed.

Also, upon further research it appears that I was wrong about that figure, it’s 0.6%. My apologies. Still doesn’t excuse transphobia.

Also, the majority of trans* people don’t believe they are in the “wrong body,” or at least wouldn’t use that phrasing. That seems to be a simplification to explain to cis people and neglects much nuance of the trans* experience.

Croi
Croi
4 years ago

Refusing to share a belief is not bigotry.

I don’t believe in the Qur’an. Am I an anti-Muslim bigot? Far from it.

The belief of a male person that he’s a woman is a belief, nothing more. We can be compassionate to such people without sharing the delusion.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Croi

The belief of a male person that he’s a woman is a belief, nothing more. We can be compassionate to such people without sharing the delusion.

Seeing as the DSM-5, the American Psychological Association, the AAP, and most of the medical establishment support this “belief”, it’s a bit further grounded than a mere “belief.”

And yes, you could have compassion, but you have made it clear you do not.

AnnieS
AnnieS
4 years ago

Sorry, just a lurker, but why even debate TERFs? I mean, the clown just went back to “it’s just a belief” and ignores internationality, and every single thing that prove them wrong.

Also,

@Rhuu thanks for sharing your experience

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
4 years ago

@Croi – Not going to be brave enough to answer any of my questions, eh? Just going to fall back on your talking points?

Telling.

You’re intolerant, and you fall into the paradox of tolerance quite neatly.

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

@Croi

You could not be an ass but here you are being an ass, You’re intolerant. You might as well say ” oh I don’t believe in gay people, what? why are you being intolerant of that belief.” because your wrong and your denying that real people exists. Not only is it wrong it’s pretty stupid on your part.

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

@Croi

Pretty serious =/= violent. Drug charges do lead to prison time in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing

I find it… Interesting that a trans woman convicted of multiple assaults (which is really bad, don’t get me wrong) is classified as the most violent prisoner in Scotland, and not, you know, someone who committed murder. What metric are you using to measure “most violent”?

And “many examples” is not a statistic. If you want to claim you’re using data that proves trans women are more violent, then you need to use statistics that actually measure violence, not just assorted convictions.

Croi
Croi
4 years ago

Hi Rhuu, sorry, I’ve been overwhelmed by the content on here, and I’m using my phone which makes typing awkward (and frustrating when posts don’t go through!)

I’m also sorry to hear about your illness. In the eyes of GC people, yes, you are a woman. It doesn’t matter if you have a womb or whatever, you were born female, and nothing that happens after can change this biological reality. You are right to think that feminists often see transmen as victims. Look at the soaring rates of teenage girls identifying as trans. What they’re actually doing is rejecting the social ideal of women, or they’re reacting against early abuse. I don’t know your situation, but at least look at possible causes, like internalized homophobia. I wish you all the best.

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

Croi

Wow you really need to go fuck your self and leave Rhuu alone. What kind of piece of shit says that to someone after they just shared their history to you. And no, transmen are not teenage girls are girls. Get fucked and go away.

Croi
Croi
4 years ago

TRAs are so aggressive. You don’t see GC feminists behaving like that. You sound like an MRA.

Rhuu wanted an honest answer and I gave one. Would it have been better if I’d ignored Rhuu?

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

@Croi

That’s it, you should have been banned for your transphobic rhetoric a long time ago, and targeting Rhuu with your condescending bullshit is completely out of fucking line. I’m contacting David, and I hope your path in the future is littered with Legos.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
4 years ago

WOW

W O W

Not sure where you’re getting internalised homophobia, but WOW.

I mean, honestly, it’s more of a this
comment image

With a side of this
comment image

Also, you DO see TERFs and transphobes being aggressive, you can’t no true scotsman your way out of this.

I wanted an honest answer that included your definition of femininity.

I wanted an honest answer about how your super terrible understanding of biology actually works, when confronted with new information. Have you had your chromosomes typed?

I wanted you to *think*, but I guess I knew you wouldn’t.

You know, people are always like “you need to be nice to the various ‘phobes around there! If you’re mean, you’ll just push them away!”

Well, I was nice to you, and then you broke the site rules about armchair diagnosing.

Now, in comparison with our other recent troll… Hmm… I’d be hard pressed to decide who argued their case worse.

And he was arguing that Mt. Penis was the most beautiful part of… all nature? Honestly it was just confusing.

(loving this longer edit timer, lol)

<3 to people who stood up for me, that was really wonderful.

Croi
Croi
4 years ago

Rhuu was upset I hadn’t answered. So I did. Now you’re all outraged at my answer? I was trying to be honest and kind. Apparently that’s not good enough. You expect me to say what you want to hear. Same old power dynamic… a woman can only say what the men want her to say. And I suspect men are in the majority here.

Rhuu just saw your question ‘re femininity. Femininity is a way of behaving. It tends to mean gentleness, caring, attention to appearances, softness, delicacy, emotion. As opposed to masculinity which is seen as ruggedness, assertiveness, dominance, callousness, self-reliance, logic etc. These are social constructs that form part of the construct that is gender. Does that answer your question?

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

Lainy, Naglfar, and I are all women. Rhuu’s a guy. So by your laughable understanding of statistics, I assume that you’ll somehow come to the conclusion that men are in the majority here. Not that the proportion of gendered folks here makes a difference in how wrong you are. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

And, yes, if you can’t give an answer that abides by the comments policy, then you shouldn’t give that damn answer. I don’t care how “politely” you cloak your bigotry.

Naglfar
Naglfar
4 years ago

@Croi
According to a survey a few years ago, the majority of the commentariat is female. Plus, as Catalpa mentioned, the majority in this thread is female.

@everyone else
Here is an interesting and somewhat relevant twitter thread on how the concept of “male anger” is used to hurt trans* people (mostly talks about trans* femme folx but also could pertain to trans* masc people).

Lainy
Lainy
4 years ago

@croi

I’m a cis gender womab and last time i delt with your kind i was asked if i was sure if the guy who raped me in a public bathroom was really a man and not a trans woman when I talked about being for trans woman in women spaces. All you terfs are fucking dicks who go for low blows and I hope you get banned soon

Croi
Croi
4 years ago

Lainy, Naglfar, and I are all women. Rhuu’s a guy.

Wait I thought Rhuu was a transman and Naglfar was a transwoman? What about you, Lainy?