By David Futrelle
On Wednesday night, pro wrestler Nyla Rose was crowned All Elite Wrestling Women’s World Champion after defeating rival Riho in a scripted match. What made this an especially dramatic moment in the already plenty dramatic world of pro wrestling was that Rose is a trans woman.
Rose’s win, not surprisingly, triggered a transphobic backlash, with some of wrestling’s more backwards fans attacking Rose on social media. But no one seems to be quite as mad about her win as retired pro wrestler Val Venis, who has been loudly broadcasting his displeasure on Twitter for several days straight now.
Here’s a little sampling of his, er, work. As you’ll see, his ALL-CAPS key has been getting quite the workout.
Naturally, he’s trying to present himself as the champion of “REAL WOMEN” against evil soyboy SJWs and “the male species” in general.
He’s also trying his hand at humor, but he’s basically only got the one joke.
Or maybe two jokes?
I would offer some sort of rebuttal to all of these but I’m not sure I have anything to add to this tweet from Twitter MuFo and self-designated “wrestlebitch” Rivka Gheist, describing VEnis, fairly accurately, as a “fucking haggard old pissbaby” and declaring that
Trans women are women, I would happily have them in my locker rooms and face them in the ring. Wrestling is for everyone, including those gender-expansive identities. … Congratulations Nyla Rose, on your historic win!
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
H/T — Thanks to Lizuka, who alerted me to Venis’ meltdown
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I’m really disappointed by this, David. I used to be a big fan. You were great against MRAs. Now you’re supporting males in women’s sport?
@Croi
Please don’t be transphobic. Comments policy and basic human decency.
Croi,
I’m sure you used to be a feminist too. Oh and the manager is a close personal friend and always gives you a huge discount, no need to call him though. And I bet you’re never shopping here again!
Dude, the messes my cats leave in the litter box are more original than you.
I’d suggest giving your life some thought, but atrophied muscles don’t work very well.
@Croi
TERFs aren’t welcome here.
@Croi – weird how the ‘feminist’ who think like you seem weirdly cosy with policing femininity, conversion therapy, more conversion therapy, the christian right wing, filing SLAPP suits, the idea of ‘trans panic’ as an a eptable defense – an shitty cousin of ‘gay panic’, and a laughibly poor understanding of science. (Example of one recentish, high profile event.)
Essence of Thought has a good video about the most recent Graham Linehan bullshit (trying to build a conversion therapist database), which is what prompted the SLAPP suit.
This is all off the top of my head. TERFs and transphobes are so transparently evil that it isn’t hard to show them doing awful things.
Blockers don’t cause sterility, and in fact save lives.
No one gets surgeries as a child.
The republicans sure hate blockers, because they know their transphobic base hates trans people. Why would you align yourself with the republicans?
‘Gender critical’ is bullshit as well, since it is freaking married to the binary, as well as traditional gender roles. Weird how some ‘feminists’ insist that, as an example, no woman has a deep voice, right?
Basically, you should do some reading and have a think, @Croi. While you might feel very connected with your gender, others don’t, or aren’t. (It’s different for everyone, though, because humans are freaking complicated.)
And if your transphobia boils down to the disgust at having to have sex with a trans woman… Great news! You don’t have to!
(Also, you are forgetting that there are more than trans *women* in the world, just saiyan.)
Let me pray to the mammoth gods that this post goes through, so many liiinks…
about TERFs:
Reactionaries are always reactionaries first and whatever ideology they claim to profess a distant second. That is as true now as it was in 1930s Germany.
I wrote out a longer post with a buncha links (got snagged, nuts, i’ll email David tomorrow) but i realised i forgot to point out – if @Croi is sad or mad because people are dismissing their concerns out of hand, please remember: this isn’t anyone here’s first rodeo.
Transphobes say these things alllllll the time, and it has *direct repercussions* on the both the nebulous ‘people in the world’, but also actual commenters here.
Sometimes the people who have been hurt and know they will continue to be hurt by the opinions and actions of transphobes, can’t spare the energy to be *nice* to the people who hurt them. The have to save their energy so they can keep on fighting to be safe.
Requiring niceness from people who are victimised by the diatribes that people who say the same things you say is a super shitty thing.
That is basically the tired old “so much for the tolerant left!!!!!” refrain. It doesn’t work for people yelling about ‘white pride’, it doesn’t work for homophobes, it doesn’t work for any right wing group one would care to name… and yet, TERFs/transphobes seem to think it’ll work for them.
No.
We can’t tolerate intolerance. This is the paradox of intolerance.
From that link:
The boundary here is ‘trans rights are human rights’.
Thanks for your replies.
I know trying to debate with TRAs on a TRA forum is as hopeless as engaging with MRAs on ‘A Voice for Men’, but I wanted to explain one thing.
Feminist theory has concepts of ‘sex’ and ‘gender’. ‘Sex’ means whether someone is biologically male or female. Yes intersex exists, but there is no such thing as a human hermaphrodite. Everyone is either male or female. Also, intersex is irrelevant to trans, and many intersex activists resent TRAs co-opting their own struggle.
‘Gender’ means the social and cultural expectations around a biological sex. For example, that people belonging to the female sex are more focused on their appearance, take on nurturing careers, are less assertive etc.
Feminism maintains that gender upholds patriarchy. It gives males an active, dominant role and females a passive, inferior one.
Until recently, no feminists believed in an innate gender identity that might conflict with the physical body, and might switch between male and female (genderfluid) or have a bit of both (non-binary). This idea of gender as something imprinted in the brain rather than socialised is new to feminism.
In fact, gender critical feminists believe in the central feminist idea that gender should be challenged. Neither women nor men have to behave in ways that conform to gender stereotypes.
‘Woman’ is not a feeling or a set of social stereotypes. It’s a basic biological reality. But that doesn’t mean a woman should be constricted by gender stereotypes, quite the opposite. GC feminists believe that women should be able to take on traditional male roles and vice versa.
However, women don’t become men by taking on this gender role or rejecting the gender role associated with their sex. That is quite a conservative idea.
The biological reality remains. That’s why GC feminists, along with the vast majority of people from all across the political spectrum, don’t support male-bodied people competing in women’s sport – regardless of what is going on inside that person’s head. All you guys care about is the male who identifies as female. True feminists support women and girls.
I know you’re not going to listen and this post will probably be deleted. All I can say is that you one day read up on GC feminism and understand that it’s quite different from what you believe. It doesn’t support ‘gender’. The ones enforcing gender are conservatives, MRAs and TRAs.
@Croi
TERF confirmed. Fuck you.
About 20% of intersex people are trans*. I don’t know who you’ve been talking to, but I haven’t seen any such reaction.
Well, Andrea Dworkin supported trans* rights, so this is nothing new in feminism. And there is anthropological precedent of trans* people (binary and non-binary) going back millennia worldwide. Trans* people have existed as long as humans have, this is not a new concept.
If gender should be challenged, why have you all declared yourselves enforcers of gender? If gender should be challenged as a concept, what better evidence is there than people who identify outside the binary? If gender is to be challenged, you should support trans* people, we’re the ones challenging it.
True. I, as a trans* person, fully support gender non-conforming cis people and their right to be so. I’ve never heard a trans* person say otherwise, but I’ve seen a hell of a lot of TERFs oppose GNC men and women.
Indeed. And trans* women and girls are a subset of that, so true feminists should support trans* women.
Well, the more I’ve learned about “gender critical” feminism, the more I’ve realized it bears little resemblance to feminism, hangs out with literal Nazis, and actively harms cis folks as well as trans* folx. So no, I doubt I’ll ever join your side.
Well, I’m sure the conservatives that fund TERF groups are happy to know they have your help in that mission. Me? I’m very much in support of people of all genders (more than 2) doing whatever they want and being who they are. You clearly aren’t.
@Croi
Attitudes change. They become updated according to new information. They become more inclusive. And feminism is not a monolith.
I agree feminism is not a monolith and you are free to think what you want, as are we. You’ll notice that although I strongly disagree with you, I’m not calling you evil or a Nazi. That’s how MRAs talk.
“If gender should be challenged, why have you all declared yourselves enforcers of gender?”
We haven’t. Read my post again. Gender means the stereotypes associated with sex. If a male person says he thinks he’s a woman because he finds himself drawn to feminine gender stereotypes, or because he ‘feels like he’s a woman’ (actually the same thing), then he is enforcing gender. If he said he wanted to wear feminine clothes while acknowledging that he is male, that would be challenging gender.
As the saying goes:
Conservatives tell you to change your mind to match your body.
TRAs tell you to change your body to match your mind.
Feminists tell you: you’re fine the way you are.
@Croi
I didn’t call you personally a Nazi. I said TERFs hang out with Nazis, something for which I have numerous examples.
Yet I recall a number of TERFs calling it out when men or women start doing gender non-conforming activities (i.e. M.K. Fain getting angry at Sam Smith for wearing a dress). If you want to challenge gender, start by supporting people who don’t conform.
I’ve actually never heard a trans* person say that. I have never seen a trans* person tell a GNC cis person to transition, yet TERFs repeat this empty claim.
Ideally, feminists should tell people that. But if you think people are fine as they are, why can’t you and your TERFy ilk just let trans* folx live our lives?
There is a difference between gender expression and gender identity.
The problem with Sam Smith was that he thought wearing a dress made him ‘non-binary’, e.g. not male or female. That could be taken to mean that one of the defining characteristics of a man is what he does (or doesn’t) wear. And THAT is enforcing gender.
Gender critical feminists support trans people living their lives. We have no animus against trans people. We just don’t believe that gender is innate or a costume. Gender is a social construct. Biology is real. Usually feminists would say this difference in biology shouldn’t play any role. But sometimes it does. And sports (going back to my first post) is one of the places where the difference between the sexes is important. If all sports were mixed, then women (biological women) wouldn’t do very well at all, especially at advanced levels.
@Croi
Sam didn’t say wearing a dress made them non-binary. They said it was a way to present themself. They never said it was what made them their gender. Sam could wear any clothing and would still be non-binary. Just like how I can wear any clothing and still have my identity. I don’t know how that is enforcing gender, they never said anyone else should or shouldn’t wear dresses. Your interpretation is reading into what isn’t there.
Then it would be nice if you and your friends would stop making laws that get us killed and raped, and endorsing policies that promote violence against us. And would stop working with anti-LGBTQIPA+ hate groups like the Heritage Foundation.
I’m not an expert on sports medicine, but all the studies conducted on trans* women athletes show that trans* women on HRT have lower bone density and lower muscle mass than cis women. So it doesn’t appear that they have any inherent advantage insofar as research shows.
ETA: has anyone else noticed the countdown timer being longer than it used to be?
TERFs always say they’re all for challenging gender roles, yet I constantly see them say that trans women aren’t women because they can’t give birth.
Because equating womanhood with having babies is such a feminist position.
Because equating womanhood with having babies is such a feminist position.
GC feminists don’t believe women should (or indeed can) be having babies. We do believe that women have female biology. What we do with it is our business.
Then it would be nice if you and your friends would stop making laws that get us killed and raped, and endorsing policies that promote violence against us.
GC feminists aren’t doing that. All the violent talk is coming from the TRA side.
I’m not an expert on sports medicine, but all the studies conducted on trans* women athletes show that trans* women on HRT have lower bone density and lower muscle mass than cis women.
That’s extremely counter-intuitive. Look at the size and strength of Laurel Hubbard and Rachel McKinnon when compared to their female opponents. And this is assuming that trans athletes are on treatment. Not all are. I believe this was the case with the Connecticut athletes who are controversially winning races and taking college grants away from girls.
This article is from the British Medical Journal, a credible source:
https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/6/395
The inclusion of elite transwomen athletes in sport is controversial. The recent International Olympic Committee (IOC) (2015) guidelines allow transwomen to compete in the women’s division if (amongst other things) their testosterone is held below 10 nmol/L. This is significantly higher than that of cis-women. Science demonstrates that high testosterone and other male physiology provides a performance advantage in sport suggesting that transwomen retain some of that advantage. To determine whether the advantage is unfair necessitates an ethical analysis of the principles of inclusion and fairness. Particularly important is whether the advantage held by transwomen is a tolerable or intolerable unfairness. We conclude that the advantage to transwomen afforded by the IOC guidelines is an intolerable unfairness.
Consider Rachel McKinnon:
1) Was a mediocre athlete before transition, when racing against men. Now racing against women, is winning titles.
2) When compared physically to female opponents, is clearly much larger and stronger.
3) Is middle-aged, which would normally mean being disadvantaged by younger opponents, but this isn’t happening.
Did you look at any of the links that Rhuu provided?
@Croi
Out of curiosity, do you support the ruling that Caster Semenya is required to take testosterone blockers in order to compete? Why or why not?
https://www.wired.com/story/caster-semenya-and-the-twisted-politics-of-testosterone/
@Croi
Take that up amongst yourselves. These TERFs certainly think so.
Can you name me a single cis person who was assaulted in a bathroom by a trans* woman? I could name you some trans* women assaulted in men’s restrooms. I could name you some trans* women assaulted by cis women, some trans* women murdered by cis women and men. Trans* people don’t endorse laws that get cis women killed. No, TERFs push laws that would have trans* women killed, that would have trans* and cis women subject to genital inspection (a form of state sponsored sexual assault). I don’t see my side as being dangerous to anyone. Yet you clearly value my life and others like me less than cis lives.
And while you’re at it, please explain why your side hangs with anti-LGBT conservatives and literal Nazis. I’m interested to know.
‘These TERFs’ boil down to one person called GCMAdamXX who believes being able to give birth is brilliant. Some feminists do emphasise women’s role as mothers – not in the sense that women should be compelled to be mothers, but more celebrating motherhood, an experience that still forms a big part of most women’s lives. You will be hard put to find any GC feminist who believes women must have babies in order to be women. I’ve never heard of a GC feminist who thinks that way.
There are many examples of transwomen attacking women, including an incident that took place in a public toilet in Scotland against a child. Here:
https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/female-spaces-need-better-protection-after-trans-woman-sex-assault-on-girl-say-campaigners-1-4868945 I’m uncomfortable giving the link. But you did ask.
@Naglfar Caster is intersex and I don’t know much about the case. It’s a different thing to trans. Less clear cut.
@Croi
So when it comes to the “biological truth” of sex, intersex people don’t count and can’t be used as an example of things being complicated, but when it comes to what level of testosterone people can or can’t have in order to compete, then things aren’t so clear cut?
@Croi
I just found you one. The blog archives here provide many other examples of bigoted TERFs. These are the people you are allying with as a “gender critical.” Take a good hard look at whose company you are in.
Anyway, “many examples of transwomen attacking women” boils down to one person named Katie Dolatowksi. What she did was wrong, but she is not representative of all trans* people. In fact, I can find many more instances of cis women committing sexual assault or murder. The existence of Aileen Wuornos does not make all cis women dangerous, and the existence of Dolatowski does not make all trans* people dangerous. However, your transphobia is quite harmful when hundreds of trans* people are murdered annually because of transphobia. By supporting “gender critical” views you are supporting the policies that enable these murders.
And answer me: why are you ok allying with Nazis, a group known for misogyny? Read the links in my last few posts and get back to me on that.