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cis-splaining gender policing transmisogyny transphobia

Ex-pro-wrestler Val Venis loses it on Twitter after trans wrestler Nyla Rose is crowned women’s champion

You might consider sitting this one out, Val

By David Futrelle

On Wednesday night, pro wrestler Nyla Rose was crowned All Elite Wrestling Women’s World Champion after defeating rival Riho in a scripted match. What made this an especially dramatic moment in the already plenty dramatic world of pro wrestling was that Rose is a trans woman.

Rose’s win, not surprisingly, triggered a transphobic backlash, with some of wrestling’s more backwards fans attacking Rose on social media. But no one seems to be quite as mad about her win as retired pro wrestler Val Venis, who has been loudly broadcasting his displeasure on Twitter for several days straight now.

Here’s a little sampling of his, er, work. As you’ll see, his ALL-CAPS key has been getting quite the workout.

Naturally, he’s trying to present himself as the champion of “REAL WOMEN” against evil soyboy SJWs and “the male species” in general.


He’s also trying his hand at humor, but he’s basically only got the one joke.

Or maybe two jokes?

I would offer some sort of rebuttal to all of these but I’m not sure I have anything to add to this tweet from Twitter MuFo and self-designated “wrestlebitch” Rivka Gheist, describing VEnis, fairly accurately, as a “fucking haggard old pissbaby” and declaring that

Trans women are women, I would happily have them in my locker rooms and face them in the ring. Wrestling is for everyone, including those gender-expansive identities. … Congratulations Nyla Rose, on your historic win!

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

H/T — Thanks to Lizuka, who alerted me to Venis’ meltdown

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

[OT] Something’s broken somewhere.

The “recent comments” is claiming that someone named Raven necro’d an old thread titled “If you can’t be with the dick you love, love the dick you’re with”. There’s no comment by Raven there and indeed no comment newer than 2014(!), but the “recent comments” at the top of its page also shows the alleged Raven comment.

I attempted to comment on that thread myself but the comment just disappeared without a trace. It neither got appended to the thread nor added to “recent comments”.

Looks like something’s bugged with that thread.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@surplus

we’ve been over this, Refresh and then look at it. I’ve seen their comment. Nothing is broken. Stop freaking out about the same shit. I also saw and replied to you, it’s all fine.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

I did refresh. Twice.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Well here is something strange. The missing comments are now there … inserted above comments timestamped 2014.

I hold firm to my opinion that something is broken with that post.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Surplus

Good for you buddy, keep searching for that mysteries answer. I’m gonna go to bed while the Nyquil is kicking it. Let me know what you’ve uncovered in the morning.

Sillabub
Sillabub
1 year ago

@Sera and @banned

Don’t give Vince or the WWE any credit for this one. Nyla is signed with AEW, a newer promotion set up by Cody Rhodes, and IIRC he did it because he was treated so badly by WWE that he basically went “screw this, I’m going to set up my own promotion and do it better”.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

@Naglfar : I guess the current situation is proof enough, but Jesus’s teaching tend to be exceptionally straightforward and not subject to interpretation as far as religion go.

The conservative do refer mostly to the old testament more than the new one in my experience, despite the new one explicitely taking precedence. That’s even the main point of christianity compared to judaism …

Lizuka
1 year ago

@Kei-O-What I really didn’t even mean that as a slight to Nyla. She’s already gotten very good in pretty short order. It’s just a fact she hasn’t really been doing it very long and can sometimes be a bit hit and miss. I’ve still really been enjoying her on the whole, she’s handily my favorite part of AEW’s women’s division.

And yeah, I do think it needs to be reiterated that WWE has nothing to do with this. The only real WWE connection to any of what he’s complaining about is the renaming of the NXT Women’s Championship and that’s already been undone anyway.

Frederic Christie
1 year ago

This isn’t out of character for AEW either. Cody has shown that he definitely listens to his POC wife Brandi (https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/bt93pt/cody_rhodes_on_how_being_in_an_interracial/) and they’ve had sensory inclusive shows as well. They seem like an excellent company with good values.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Surplus
I saw the same thing (not sure why Raven is going through all the old threads commenting, but none of my business), but it seems to just be a bug. It’s annoying, but it doesn’t affect us much so I wouldn’t worry about it.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Surplus
Yeah, there is/was a bug where if people commented on a thread from the alert link in their email, then their comment would consistently be pushed to the bottom of the thread until a new page was reached. You’ve probably stumbled across one of those.

I haven’t seen any happening recently, so it’s possible that the bug got fixed at some point and doesn’t cause that any more.

Katamount
1 year ago

G’morning, Mammotheers! Had a lovely commute into work on this slushy Tuesday morning. Had to shove my large rear between two people who decided that the middle bus bench seat would act as a buffer between them, much to their annoyance (but hey, it’s an open seat and the bus was packed). The weather had clearly delayed the bus, so the guy on my left was looking over my head to see how far the next stop was and he got off there.

But the middle-aged woman on my right… she was leaning way over to her right side (as I will do sometimes on that bank closest to the door), but was staring at me with daggers for a solid five seconds before I gla. I didn’t think much of it; I was listening to Majority Report, she was watching YouTube… but then my eye caught a familiar face.

She was watching Vox Day. Jordan Peterson was in her recommendeds.

She might have seen my wide-eyed reaction, because I got the same daggers when I stood up to get off. I mean, I dunno what’s scarier, than somebody on my bus route consumes white nationalist content or that it’s a 40-something woman as opposed to a Gen-Z 4chan user.

Maybe it was simply researching, but given it was a full podcast she was watching, I doubt it. Fwee, best start to the day ever!

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Katamount
That’s a way to start the day. You’re right that that doesn’t sound like the typical profile of a Vox Day fan, but there definitely are older white nationalists (where else did the current ones come from?) and they’re likely to watch that kind of content as well.

I would have had the same reaction. Although I don’t use public transport much because there really isn’t an effective mode of it where I live, I would certainly be rather disturbed by someone in my vicinity being alt-right.

Tabby Lavalamp
Tabby Lavalamp
1 year ago

Riho as the inaugural champion bothered me because despite her surprising experience (she’s 22 and been wrestling since nine,) and the fact that she’s booked as an underdog winning more from cleverness than strength (ex. reversing an attempted submission hold into a quick pin,) she looks like a 12-year-old fan that was brought into the ring…

Nah. She’s small, but she looks like a small adult. And people don’t seem to complain as much about smaller men facing much bigger ones. Could Rey Mysterio ever legitimately win over the Big Show?

The problem with Riho being the inaugural champion is that she was never there and that’s no way to build a title’s prestige.

Now, one of Nyla Rose’s coworkers screaming about this on Twitter fucking sucks, yes.

He’s no more her co-worker than a programmer at Google and a former programmer at Facebook are co-workers.

AEW does have an open maga working for them (Jake Hager (formerly Jack Swagger, an anti-immigrant character, in WWE)) but if he has a problem with Nyla Rose, he’s at least been smart enough to keep his mouth shut about it on Twitter.

Sillabub
Sillabub
1 year ago

@Tabby, wait, Swagger’s a MAGA-head for real? I was under the impression that the anti-immigrant stuff in WWE was just a work because they had him feuding with ADR at the time.

Chris Jericho is very probably a MAGA- head for real though. He had Trump Junior on his podcast a couple of months back. I was so disappointed.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Sillabub

Chris Jericho is very probably a MAGA- head for real though. He had Trump Junior on his podcast a couple of months back. I was so disappointed.

I can be pretty certain that he likes the Orange Shitstain, seeing as he got annoyed on Twitter when people complained about that episode.

Katamount
1 year ago

@Sillabub

Chris Jericho is very probably a MAGA- head for real though. He had Trump Junior on his podcast a couple of months back. I was so disappointed.

Not Manitoba’s favourite son! *sigh* At least the Hot Rod isn’t around to see this.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

Out of topic, but I am currently working on some language-related stuff for my job, and the tool we use accept the (greek) linear A and B, but not the Yezidi.

I though Yezidi to be a niche but still living language. Certainly feel strange to implement support for languages that people can’t even translate before living languages.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Ohlmann
I was under the impression that Yezidis spoke Kurdish. Is there a separate Yezidi language?

Tabby Lavalamp
Tabby Lavalamp
1 year ago

Sillabub…

Sorry.

Sillabub
Sillabub
1 year ago

@Tabby

Oh dear.

Though admittedly that’s not as depressing as the knowledge that the Undertaker is a Republican.

Tabby Lavalamp
Tabby Lavalamp
1 year ago

Sillabub, on the other hand Jim Cornette is a Democrat so that’s no clear indication of being a good person.

However, Mick Foley is also a Democrat and as far as I know he’s one of the most decent men in wrestling.

rv97
rv97
1 year ago

@Naglfar
A cursory glance of Wikipedia tells me that they speak Kurmanji, or Northern Kurdish, itself deemed a dialect.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
1 year ago

I don’t know if 40-something Torontonians being fans of the right-wing internet media machine are all that surprising, if still disappointing. Doug Ford got 33.73% of the vote in the 2014 municipal election; in the 2018 provincial election, the PCs got 11 out of 25 seats in Toronto. Jordan Peterson is (was?) a University of Toronto professor. Also keep in mind, if the woman actually is in her 40s, she’s probably familiar with the old World Wide Web, likely MSN, maybe Napster, maybe even DC++.

If anything, I suspect that the machine has less of an influence on younger folks than on the Millennial / Gen X range, especially nowadays.

Katamount
1 year ago

@An Impish Pepper

You may be right. After all, I only knew who Vox Day was because I come to this blog.

But it’s not like these people are particularly subtle. Vox Day’s YouTube stream is literally branded “Darkstream.”

Crip Dyke
1 year ago

@Naglfar:

Yazidi is a cultural-religious group. Although there is a traditional language associated with the Yazidis, it’s not been spoken by very many Yazidis at any time in the recent past. Rather, they mostly speak a variant of Kurdish, but that has everything to do with living mostly in Kurdish territory. They generally speak the local language, whatever that is, and that happens to be Kurdish for most of them.

I’m not at all sure, but what I’ve read traces the Yazidis’ religious traditions back to a time when Zoroastrians interacted with Jews or early Christians, though it also changed due to the influence of Islam (and thus it is hard to determine whether the “original” Yazidi ideas were more Zoroastrian-Jewish or more Zoroastrian-Christian). There’s never been a written holy book of the Yazidis, so linguistic evidence is scant. Yazidis who don’t speak Kurdish as their primary tongue have sometimes translated their hymns and myths into other languages.

The sum total of my knowledge was a documentary I watched and a couple of articles I’ve read some time ago – not even anything book length – so while I’m pretty confident about the core question (‘Do Yazidis speak Kurdish?’) if this is at all important to you, you’re better off with a book from the library than listening to me.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ crip dyke

An osteo-archeologist friend has been doing a lot of work with the Yazidi. Sadly, mainly digging up mass graves for the war crimes tribunal.

She’s been telling me some interesting stuff though. As for language, a lot of Yazidi speak a form of Kurdish; but some call the language by a different name to emphasise a separate identity.

Maybe like someone saying they speak “American”.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

A quick google shows it’s called Ezidiki.

And lead to this interesting article…

http://www.yezidisinternational.org/abouttheyezidipeople/glossary/

ColeYote
ColeYote
1 year ago

@Tabby: I’ve seen plenty of people complain about smaller guys getting wins over big guys. Because apparently they can buy Brock Lesnar steamrolling everyone on the roster and then struggling with a 50-something who hasn’t wrestled in over a decade, but not a 200-pounder beating a 300-pounder.

Which, y’know, there have been MMA fights that actually see a 200-pounder beating a 300-pounder, so that’s cool.

Crip Dyke
1 year ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

Great source! I found this

linguists have shown that what is called “dialects” of Kurdish language are as different as Spanish and German. It is incorrect to say Yezidis speak Kurdish. Saying someone speak Kurdish is a very vague term and those who speak Kurmanji are unable to comprehend Sorani or Horami (the other dialects of Kurdish)

To be particularly enlightening. Although taken fully at face value, it would seem to be saying that no one speaks Kurdish, just like no one speaks “Romance language” even though lots of people speak French or Italian or Portuguese.

Couch Thing
1 year ago

It’s scripted. Kayfabe I think is the term. So, even if there were some weight to the argument that transwomen have an advantage over other women in sports (spoiler alert” there is weight to that argument), how the hell would it apply here? These idiots make me tired all over.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Katamount, An Impish Pepper
Older adults can definitely have far right views and further them on the internet. However, they tend to do it in different ways. JP and VD (I love how that can also stand for “venereal disease” in addition to his name) are the fuel for younger people, while most baby boomers seem to prefer QAnon-type stuff on Facebook. This is a bit unusual, but not by that much.

But it’s not like these people are particularly subtle. Vox Day’s YouTube stream is literally branded “Darkstream.”

I think this is warranted for Vox:comment image

@Crip Dyke
Thank you for the information. That helps me understand this a lot better.

Although taken fully at face value, it would seem to be saying that no one speaks Kurdish, just like no one speaks “Romance language” even though lots of people speak French or Italian or Portuguese.

My guess is that the Kurdish dialects would be classed more accurately as separate languages but aren’t because of racism or the lack of states for the different groups. As Max Weinreich said:

A language is a dialect with an army and navy

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ naglfar

A language is a dialect with an army and navy

I like that.

Reminds me a bit of “Never say ‘you and what army?’ to a general; they just point out of the window.”

rv97
rv97
1 year ago

@Naglfar

I’d have to try and do my own research regarding languages. The conflation of separate languages as dialects or the classification of dialects as separate languages is a thing – I can think of China and the Balkans as the most obvious examples for this I believe, but I don’t know. I’m not aware of the Kurdish situation ATM.

I hear that the main reason that languages in China have some degree of mutual intelligibility is largely superficial and down to a shared writing system. With the Balkans, with the recent genocide being a symptom of it, otherwise likely different registers of one language or “sprachbund” are considered separate for largely nationalistic reasons (which encompass race and religion I believe primarily).

Talonknife
Talonknife
1 year ago

I never liked wrestling when I was little. I kinda thought it was a dumb meathead thing. As I got older, I realized that even though it’s all scripted and choreographed, it’s not necessarily fake – after all, live stage theater is scripted and choreographed and we don’t really think of that as fake, do we? I realized that professional wrestlers are basically live theater actors who also do their own stunts, and just like live stage theater, there’s a lot of potential for thongs to go wrong and sometimes improvising to cover for a mistake makes the best moment of the show. It’s still not really my thing, but now as an adult I can understand why it would be appealing to watch.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago
Kei-O-What
Kei-O-What
1 year ago

@Tabby: There’s a clear difference between Rey Misterio, who has an adult build despite the height and face of a child, even when his own son is bigger than him, compared to Riho, who now that I think about it, reminds me of Tatsumaki from “One-Punch Man” in being an adult who doesn’t look like it (even in-Universe) and people claiming she does by Japanese woman standards.

@banned@4chan.org: It’s already been said both before and after my previous post that AEW and WWE are completely different companies, meaning Venis and Nyla have not only never worked in the same company, they’ve never been active at the same time, either.

As for Jericho, I hope he’s not a right-wing tool that just hides it better (it’s too late and I’m not in the mood for whatever Google results I might find,) so I just hope that he was more mad for vanity/attention whore reasons than political ones. He’s stood up for women wrestlers before, has no history of dickhead behavior (unlike “Big Cass”, an ex-WWE wrestler who was such a Trumper he defended Trump’s Muslim ban to the very face of Muslim Syrian-Canadian, Sami Zayn*, before he was fired for a number of other dickhead acts backstage some months after his tag partner, Enzo Amore was fired for rape accusations,) so until proven otherwise, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for peace of mind.

*Speaking of which, Zayn being a Syrian and running a charity for Syrians, is one of the few WWE superstars outright banned from the trips to Saudi Arabia because of that with others either choosing not to go for moral reasons, (Daniel Bryan explicitly because of the Saudi’s anti-LGBT policies and Kevin Steen in solidarity with Zayn who’s like a brother to him,) Cena either not going for the same reasons but definitely because his agent knew it’d be bad PR, did go yet made a negative into a positive by donating their pay to charity like the aforementioned Mustafa Ali or had to go, but intend on skipping out next time after how shitty they were treated by the boss there.

Pretty much from the get-go, the Saudi trips are so unquestionably for McMahon to get a paycheck that not only are the matches there functionally “non-canon” with bullshit one-off titles and trophies designed to entertain the royal family (seriously, the Saudis are so out of touch that they wanted to see wrestlers who’ve been dead for over a decade,) said matches tend to be embarrassingly bad such as the Undertaker vs. Goldberg match (see TVTropes’ “So Bad Its Horrible” page for the full details, such as WWE still going despite it being it being right after Jamal Khasshogi’s murder.)

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

Thanks for the interesting informations about linguistics.

Tabby Lavalamp
Tabby Lavalamp
1 year ago

Kei-O-Wat, Riho is short and thin, but honestly? When I look at her I see a woman with a 22-year-old’s adult face and adult body, even if that body is short and thin. I wonder if her size and her choice of ring attire are making people think she looks like a child.

Photo of Riho on Twitter

And Rey’s adult build? Here he is standing beside Big Show in WCW. That’s a much bigger size differential than Riho and Nyla Rose.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

In the absence of a currently active open thread, this seems a vaguely related thread to post this in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51553815

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

What is it? It’s an opaque URL so we have no idea whether it’s interesting or not before we click it.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Alan Robertshaw
That sounds quite grueling. I figure I could carry a 60kg pole with others or a 79kg stretcher, but I think those are the only course items I could realistically do. I’ll leave the rest to those with more guts and endurance.

@Surplus
It’s a news story.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

About?

Usually there’s a capsule précis right in the URL, but in this instance it’s just alphanumeric gobbledegook.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Surplus
The first woman to pass the Para test in the British military.
The headline is “British Army officer becomes first woman to pass brutal Para course”

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Ah. Well, then, I suppose congratulations are in order. Along with meltdowns from the right wing.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

O/T, but this is practically an open thread at this point anyway:
If you want to see another example of how much of a two-faced liar Mike Bloomberg is, look no further.
TL;DR is that last year, as I mentioned above, Mike said that trans* people (whom he calls “heshes”, “its”, and “men in dresses”) are acceptable to throw under the bus. Now he sells T-shirts about protecting trans* rights. There may be no better metaphor for the American capitalist grifter.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
1 year ago

Going back to this for a moment, now that I have a few seconds free to respond:

Darrell A Williams Jr

That might be a Dane. They aren’t born with ears that stand up and not everyone gets their Dane’s ears cut.

Compare the entire head of the dog in that tweet to the heads of the dogs I posted, not just the ears. The Danes have a much longer face / longer lips than Labs do. The dog Venis posted in that tweet doesn’t have the Dane face, but the Lab face. Wherever he got that pic from, it clearly wasn’t from typing the words ‘Great Dane’ into a search engine.

(I know, minor point in the rest of this idiocy, but Venis’ lack of research on that point had to be noted.)

@Alan,

I’d heard that about Scooby Doo’s design inspiration before, and found it interesting. It also reminds me that hunting down (one of) the recent updates of the property could be rewarding. Specially the version where it basically states that Shaggy/Velma and Fred/Daphne were officially canon. And maybe a few of the other new versions too. (Kinda wary over the live action version, mostly because of the CGI Scooby alongside the live actors throws me off for some reason.)

Paireon
Paireon
1 year ago

Super late to the party (busy week), but I just wanted to say:

Thank you, Val Venis. I now feel more vindicated than ever to have supported Dusty Rhodes (AKA Goldust) when you two feuded all those years ago.

I’d hope for you to get some venereal disease, but a tool like you would probably just communicate it to his hapless partners.