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cis-splaining gender policing transmisogyny transphobia

Ex-pro-wrestler Val Venis loses it on Twitter after trans wrestler Nyla Rose is crowned women’s champion

You might consider sitting this one out, Val

By David Futrelle

On Wednesday night, pro wrestler Nyla Rose was crowned All Elite Wrestling Women’s World Champion after defeating rival Riho in a scripted match. What made this an especially dramatic moment in the already plenty dramatic world of pro wrestling was that Rose is a trans woman.

Rose’s win, not surprisingly, triggered a transphobic backlash, with some of wrestling’s more backwards fans attacking Rose on social media. But no one seems to be quite as mad about her win as retired pro wrestler Val Venis, who has been loudly broadcasting his displeasure on Twitter for several days straight now.

Here’s a little sampling of his, er, work. As you’ll see, his ALL-CAPS key has been getting quite the workout.

Naturally, he’s trying to present himself as the champion of “REAL WOMEN” against evil soyboy SJWs and “the male species” in general.


He’s also trying his hand at humor, but he’s basically only got the one joke.

Or maybe two jokes?

I would offer some sort of rebuttal to all of these but I’m not sure I have anything to add to this tweet from Twitter MuFo and self-designated “wrestlebitch” Rivka Gheist, describing VEnis, fairly accurately, as a “fucking haggard old pissbaby” and declaring that

Trans women are women, I would happily have them in my locker rooms and face them in the ring. Wrestling is for everyone, including those gender-expansive identities. … Congratulations Nyla Rose, on your historic win!

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

H/T — Thanks to Lizuka, who alerted me to Venis’ meltdown

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

I don’t really know much about wrestling, so I don’t have much to say here.

Sadly, real biological women have always had to fight from underneath the regular subjugation by the male species. When the female species rises up from that man powered subjugation, a man simply pretends to be a woman & steals the empowerment of women out from underneath them.

Seeing shades of TERF here. Also, “female species”? Still sounds like a misogynist to me. I notice a lot of transphobic men are also misogynists who try to redirect their misogyny by claiming to champion what they perceive as “real women” then being transmisogynistic and also attacking cis women who are trans* allies. This is what Graham Linehan does.

Today I identify as a Great Dane. Gonna enter the Westminster dog show and win the XL Dog title.

This man is an insult to all the good dogs in the world. And still unoriginal stupid joke even if he changes the punchline slightly.

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
1 year ago

Today I identify as a Great Dane. Gonna enter the Westminster dog show and win the XL Dog title.

The only way you’ll win is if you have the talent and put in the work. You know, just like Rose did.

Demonhype
Demonhype
1 year ago

Scripted match.

Seriously.

Qualifying term “scripted”.

Regardless of anyone’s position on what unfair benefits may or may not have been conferred on those who transition post-puberty (which,with the greater focus I’ve been hearing on maybe letting trans kids transition pre-puberty or delaying puberty until legal adulthood, seems like if it’s a problem it will sort itself out), this doesnt even begin to qualify for a discussion or argument on that front because it’s scripted! Not even real! Acting! Pre-determined outcomes! Rigged results! It could just as easily be a trans woman superhero besting Harley Quinn in a comic book, and would have as much impact on the issue of whether or not trans women have unfair advantages irl!I

Not that these guys won’t bitch and moan anyway, because sjw etc, but the idea that the made up outcome of a play-acted fight has any impact on irl sporting outcomes is beyond ridiculous. Esp since these are the exact sorts of guys who love to emphasize to us ladies that just because Catwoman held her own or even beat up Batman, we shouldn’t get any uppity little ideas in our silly pink heads that any woman could ever actually hold her own in a fight against any manner any circumstances because it’s fiction and has no connection to reality where penis always and forever triumphs over vagina regardless of any other factors because of Reasons Concerning Very Serious Science and Maths That Cannot Be Argued With. So seeing them suddenly turn all feminist champions of women (in a terfy way) because of their inability to differentiate between reality and fiction is…kinda hilarious.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Demonhype

Regardless of anyone’s position on what unfair benefits may or may not have been conferred on those who transition post-puberty

Trans* women, regardless of whether they transition before or after puberty, usually have lower bone density and less muscle than cis women. Transphobes love to pick on events like this one because they know the facts are against them so they have to use anecdotal evidence. It’s like denying global warming because it snowed last night.

Scripted match.

As I figured. Are all matches scripted, or just some?

Demonhype
Demonhype
1 year ago

Btdubbs, I don’t usually bother with either Marvel or DC with some notable exceptions (coughDeadpoolcough), but I would totally buy that comic book cuz that kinda sounds awesome.

Closest I ever saw to such a thing was the cross dressing Maid Man from Empowered, who I initially groaned at because I thought he would be there for cheap gay/trans/genderqueer punching down jokes (and thought also “omg, Adam Warren, and I liked totally too, you are so much better than this”) but surprised me by being treated like a real dead serious superhero who just unapologetically chooses to dress the way he wants for his own reasons and the criminals are terrified of him.not because of some cheap and predictable gay-rape joke but because of his totally serious competence and total badassery as a superhero–one of the Batman variety, in fact,who has no powers and must rely on with and training and prep. At some point, you just think of him as an awesome badass and totally accept the French maid outfit and persona as part of it. Quickly became a favorite character of mine, (fuck yeah, Maid Man’s here, now y’all gonna get it!) and I would adore a solo book!

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
1 year ago

@Naglfar

Not a pro wrestling fan, but based on what I’ve read, all matches are scripted in the sense that the winners and losers are predetermined, and the wrestlers will use certain moves or say certain lines at certain times for dramatic effect, but there’s a lot of room for improvisation.

K.
K.
1 year ago

I prefer the term “choreographed” when it comes to pro wrestling. Yes, the results are pre-booked, but there’s still the chance of legitimate injury — much like in ballet or cheerleading routine. All it takes is one wrong move or blown spot. CTE is as much a problem in wrestling as it is in football. Probably even worse as most wrestlers are screwed over when it comes to health benefits and insurance, especially if you’re not considered a “big name”. And there is no “off season”. If you don’t work, you do not get paid.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Sounds like another industry in dire need of some unionization …

As for the transphobe, well, wow, with a name like that the jokes basically write themselves.

What’s particularly interesting here is the flip-flop between what seems to be religiously-inspired bigotry (check out that hashtag) and more TERF-like talking points. Is this more evidence for TERFs and the alt-right cross-fertilizing one another?

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

I can only assume that Val took the ludicrous position of “identifying” as a specific woman, rather than just a woman who would compete in the women’s grand slam is because he knew that “massive package” or not, Serena Williams would wipe the floor of the tennis court with his transphobia ass.

Demonhype
Demonhype
1 year ago

I have no problem with trans women as being women period. Hell, I think I changed one older lady’s opinion on the bathroom issue a couple years ago!

I do also understand concerns about the sports issue and have heard too many angles and arguments to have any solid position on whether there is any benefit or disadvantage on either group…everyone has some science in why their position is right, imo time will eventually show what it us, and I’ll just see how it all plays out…

…but I don’t see why, even if there turns out to be some significant disparity found at some point, it should mean anyone doesn’t get to participate, which seems to be the “answer” preferred by these assholes, to use such disparity as an excuse to exclude certain people. Who says the system has to stay the same as ever? Why not, instead of straight man/man woman/woman, introduce things like weight or height subcategories, or subcategories based on prelim qualifying performance, or something? Add any awards/prizes necessary to accommodate any additional groupings. (Not sporting person, so i dont know detail-wise how that might work, just an abstract). Proving a trans woman has unfair benefits doesn’t excuse excluding them or forcing them to compete in men’s competitions, it just means we need to figure out exactly how the disparity works and rethink how we arrange the head to head contests.

And, I must emphasize this, that doesnt mean trans women aren’t women or that they definitely have unfair advantages. Just that even if they were right about unfair advantages, it wouldn’t mean what these bigots think–that trans women aren’t women and/or should be excluded.
Which seems to be their main dog in this race.

Moreover, it sounds like the “regular” women who are athletes in any of these fields have no problem sharing the locker room or the playing field with trans woman athletes, or think they’re being cheated out of anything in an unfair competition. Why should anyone else have a problem with them then, if the afab women athletes themselves dont, for the most part?

But bringing that issue into a scripted contest just takes them into an entirely new level of ignorant flailing jackass.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Surplus

Is this more evidence for TERFs and the alt-right cross-fertilizing one another?

More TERFs and the religious right cross-pollinating. This isn’t new, seeing as the religious right has been funding TERF groups for years now, most notably the Women’s Liberation Front, which appears to be entirely a conservative puppet organization.

@Demonhype

Moreover, it sounds like the “regular” women who are athletes in any of these fields have no problem sharing the locker room or the playing field with trans woman athletes, or think they’re being cheated out of anything in an unfair competition. Why should anyone else have a problem with them then, if the afab women athletes themselves dont, for the most part?

Because they can use it as a springboard into bigotry. It sounds very similar to the dialogue going around when sports were being integrated.

Lizuka
1 year ago

Yeah, I saw this whole crazy thing snowballing and it really seemed like something more people outside of wrestling circles should be made aware of. Fortunately a lot of fans have been entirely fine with it, and viewership actually rose for the match where it happened, so it’s very much just a vocal minority.

Also for anyone who wasn’t aware Val Venis’s primary gimmick as a wrestler was being a sleazy porn star during a period of time when the women on the roster were routinely doing stuff like fighting in gravy and having bikini contests instead of actually wrestling, so it’s especially rich to see him in particular claiming to be fighting on behalf of women.

Riho / Nyla was a great match for what it’s worth. Nyla’s pretty inexperienced but she and Riho click very well together.

Tohka
Tohka
1 year ago

Yikes. Fell down the rabbit hole on some of these alt right Twitter accounts. It was just sad.. Led me to the trad side of the alt right where it’s believed that women are worse off having rights, education and financial freedom. Some of them glorify the times where women died in childbirth so often it was expected. Alot of it praising the privileged class of those times since they wouldn’t want to actually work as hard as the people did back then. No surprise that these people also despise the LGBT despite LGBT people always existing.

But I also know that alot, I mean alot, of these alt right trad accounts are people that hardly follow what they glorify too and that it’s all fake. Still so toxic to keep praising…

BBBB
BBBB
1 year ago

The very idea that Vince and Linda McMahon are ‘Social Justice Warriors’ is laughable.

Bina
1 year ago

Could this dude please identify as an original thinker?

Also, could he give it a fucking REST?

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
1 year ago

Another thing this dude doesn’t know – dogs. For one, the dog in his tweet is (I think) a Lab, not a Great Dane.

comment image

Also, there is no XL Category for dogs in US shows. The American Kennel Club has seven different groups they put dog breeds in to help determine the show winner.

https://nds.nationaldogshow.com/event-info/the-seven-groups/

Great Danes are in the Working Group, which also has Doberman Pincers and Siberian Huskies as members. I sincerely doubt this guy could pull off winning all the categories (Best of Breed —> Best in Group) he needs to win Best in Show. He’s not put in enough time and money on his looks to pull it off. 😛

Mogwitch
Mogwitch
1 year ago

I think there is some resentment of trans women entering sport while seeming to have physical advantages. There’s a lot of argument about what advantages but on average they have longer limbs and are stronger, even with lowered testosterone.

But this is how sports works! Every professional athlete in the world has natural physical advantages over me. No matter how hard I worked, I‘d always be short, curvy and less muscular. Most sports have a physical body type that does well, and only people that have the ability to gain and enhance that body type will do well, when competitiveness requires winning in fractions of seconds. Every athlete that has less advantages than a trans athlete presumably had some physical advantage over someone else, which was just as fair or unfair.

I’d really like it if we had a society where elite sports were less important, especially since we have sports like gymnastics and football which demand thousands of children sacrificing play, academics and lifelong physical health for a few to succeed. I‘d really love a society where mass participation in sports for social and health reasons, and sheer enjoyment in using the bodies we have well was encouraged. I had to rediscover physical exercise as a joy instead of a chore as an adult, because I was taught it was about winning and fighting through pain, not revelling in what my unique body could give me. If sport and life is treated as fun and not a winner takes all competition, there’s no point in resenting the other participants.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
1 year ago

These leftist nutjobs will find you a pro noun to use

DEATH MATCH: pro wrestling industry vs. pro noun industry

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

My pet peeve with that asshole is that he both talk of “biological sex” and “sex is assigned by God”.

He need to choose one or the other, to start with. Theology and biology don’t work terribly well together (as do relativistic physic and quantuum physic, since it’s more a problem of them not being compatible with each other).

Then, biological sex only concern itself with reproduction. When we talk of gender, we talk of a group of feature, who only partially overlap with reproduction. Crucially, here, that asshole isn’t harping about the women’s champion being unable to get pregnant [EDITOR’S NOTE : she may or may not be able to get pregnant, none of my concern], but secondary and tertiary characteristic that are more indicator of social “class” than anything that biology say about sex.

But even for theological sex, I think he is on shaky ground. The bible certainly never outright say that God assign anything, and the bible don’t say much about what is the essential difference between men and women ; it talk more of how each should act.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ lumipuna

I am very pro noun.

I find they are invaluable in Language if you want to identify things.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Tokha

Alot of it praising the privileged class of those times since they wouldn’t want to actually work as hard as the people did back then.

They conveniently appear to forget that they wouldn’t be the upper class and would probably be working class, as most people were.

@Mogwitch

But this is how sports works! Every professional athlete in the world has natural physical advantages over me. No matter how hard I worked, I‘d always be short, curvy and less muscular.

I’ve used this argument before in the Caster Semenya debate. I pointed out that Michael Phelps has really long arms, which gives him an advantage, yet no one is arguing to cut his hands off. Each person has advantages and disadvantages, some people are better suited to a sport than others. I could do all the training in the world and any pro wrestler could take me out in seconds.

@Alan Robertshaw
Without them, hard.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
1 year ago

*Hank Hill voice*

“Pro-nouns and pro-noun preferences”

Crip Dyke
1 year ago

Lumipuna, your Death Match was genius.

@RedSilkPhoenix

there is no XL Category for dogs in US shows

Maybe there’s an XL category in WWE and little Venis is getting confused?

@everyone
I’ve never followed the whole wrestling thing, but IIUC a lot of these wins are set up so that the audience gets a bigger thrill out of seeing the scripted villain lose. After all, if the “good guy” wrestler always beat the “bad guy” wrestler, there would be no suspense.

So I’m wondering if the whole bit about this woman “winning” this scripted bout is just to set up the storyline of the cis woman “fighting back” and “overcoming the odds” to achieve a greater “triumph” later.

I’m sure I won’t seek out news about it, but I’ll be interested to read (should an article come across my screen) about how the trans* wrestler’s subsequent loss is handled.

As a final note, given how much these things are scripted in the WWE world, I’d give at least a little credence to the possibility that Venis’ tweets were also predetermined as part of WWE’s attempt to build controversy and attention for future championship matches involving the trans* wrestler.

K.
K.
1 year ago

It’s not even the WWE — it’s AEW, another fed entirely.

RE: Unions in wrestling. McMahon is infamous in squashing ANY attempt at unionization in his company. 🙁

Lizuka
1 year ago

For what it’s worth Nyla being trans has never once actually been brought up on screen, and Riho had beaten her three times in a row before this, so I very much doubt they’re looking to make any kind of storyline out of it.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

O/T but somewhat relevant:
TERFs are now finding common ground with conservative Catholics (TW: transphobia, misgendering, homophobia) and I am not surprised.
We also learn in this article that prominent TERF M.K. Fain is an ex-evangelical. Perhaps that explains some of her bigoted views on gender.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

That’s my surprised face. TERFs, as conservatives creeps, find common ground with other conservatives creeps that share targets with them ? How shocking and unexpected.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

@Naglfar

They conveniently appear to forget that they wouldn’t be the upper class and would probably be working class, as most people were.

It never fails to amuse me how people calling for a system with massive disparities are always convinced that under their desired system, they will go from their current low-rung position to the top of the heap.

It seems like every single libertarian is convinced that only government regulation is keeping him in his IT Support job, and in the Free Market he would swiftly become a Fortune 500 CEO.

Kimstu
Kimstu
1 year ago

See also: this lawsuit against allowing transgender competitors in high-school girls’ track events.

Speaking as a former (very) non-elite competitor in girls’/women’s sports in high school and college, I would like to say to all these transphobe “defenders of women”: You never gave a rat’s ass about supporting any girls’ or women’s sports before, so don’t think you’re fooling anyone when you pretend to start now.

Women’s sports, both professional and amateur, are constantly denigrated and sneered at for being “not as interesting” as men’s sports because women on average are physically smaller and slower than men. And many men feel embarrassed or insecure about watching tough athletic women performing feats of physical strength, skill and endurance, at least if those women aren’t dressed in bikinis and deliberately sexualized for the audience.

Consequently, female athletes are routinely ignored, undervalued, mocked, and in the case of professionals, underpaid. (And in some horrific cases, actually abused with impunity due to lack of proper vetting and supervision.)

And now a bunch of transphobic assholes are trying to make people believe that they really care if a tiny number of transgender female athletes might have an “unfair advantage” over their competitors? Sorry pal, you and your ilk have already made it stunningly clear that you’re completely indifferent about unfair treatment of female athletes unless you think it affords an opportunity for airing your bigotry.

The next time somebody tries to tell you how opposed they are to transgender athletes “endangering” women’s sports, ask them to name the most recent women’s sports event they watched. Ask them how their local girls’ or women’s soccer team is doing. Ask them who’s their favorite WNBA or NWSL player. Ask them to name the top female marathoner, or cricketer, or tennis player (come on, that’s a no-brainer!) in the world. They most likely won’t have a clue.

The transphobia of these people would be bad enough even without the hypocrisy of their claim to care about women’s sports, but the hypocrisy is just adding insult to injury.

Darrell A Williams Jr
Darrell A Williams Jr
1 year ago

Vince and Linda McMahon don’t have anything to do with what he’s talking about. The fact that some of you seem to believe the WWE is the only wrestling out there is laughable.

Darrell A Williams Jr
Darrell A Williams Jr
1 year ago

That might be a Dane. They aren’t born with ears that stand up and not everyone gets their Dane’s ears cut.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Allandrel

It seems like every single libertarian is convinced that only government regulation is keeping him in his IT Support job, and in the Free Market he would swiftly become a Fortune 500 CEO.

Lord, grant me the confidence of an overly optimistic mediocre white man…

@Kimstu

You never gave a rat’s ass about supporting any girls’ or women’s sports before, so don’t think you’re fooling anyone when you pretend to start now.

It’s just another way for bigots to latch on to a cause they don’t really care about. They’ll move on when it ceases to be a useful pawn. Sort of like how transphobes also claim it’s about women’s safety in bathrooms while also supporting policies that make it easier for rapists to get away with rape. It’s a way to pretend it’s more than just raw hatred.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Re: Great Danes

When Iwoa Takamoto was tasked with designing Scooby Doo, he sought advice from a Great Dane breeder as to what characteristics were sought after in prize winning examples of the breed. He then proceeded to give Scooby the exact opposite i.e. bent back, bow legs, double chin etc.

Which is why Scooby is a hero for our times.

Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

@Alan

Scooby is Best Dog. Especially in the Mystery, Inc. series.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ Vicky P

Isn’t he just?

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

I think a big congratulations is in order. For nyla rose no matter what this asshole thinks. Hopefully he doesn’t take anything away from her victory

TB Tabby
TB Tabby
1 year ago

Okay, Val. Step back for a bit. Take a few deep breaths. Now tell yourself, “I’m complaining about one of the participants in a scripted match has an unfair advantage.”

Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
1 year ago

@Allandrel

It’s a peculiar kind of egotism and selfishness that fuels the view one is going to magically be among the elite in whatever wildly disparate society they have a droolfest over. I get a lot of black amusement over that same kind of myopia in religion, because with all the fundies believing in the Rapture, they *always* think they’re going to be amongst the elect spirited to Heaven to laugh at all of us sinners enduring the Tribulations. They never think they’re going to be among the left behind, when looking at their general behavior would indicate that, er… maybe they need some work done.

Simon
Simon
1 year ago

One joke. So many examples.

Nequam
Nequam
1 year ago

It’s a peculiar kind of egotism and selfishness that fuels the view one is going to magically be among the elite in whatever wildly disparate society they have a droolfest over.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

@Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged : I don’t think it come from that. It’s more the continuation of myths they were told.

Well, one myth in particular : the American Dream, where someone just need to work hard to be rich and famous. It obviously don’t work like that, both because you also need a lot of luck and/or inherited capital, and because not everyone can work hard enough to be a successful businessman (who didn’t inherit an already working firm, I mean).

Once reality that they aren’t gonna be successful self made man set in, a decent amount of people want to keep the fantasy of success on an automatic formula, but just change the conditions. That’s both a common fuel for racism (“if they weren’t thoses jews, I would have been successful ! Removing them will restore my success”), and for thoses past fantasy (“they said me that because back in the time, it was true ! let’s return to that age standard and it will restore my success”).

The semen retentist in the other thread show how their reasoning work : there is an immutable truth, everything in the world follow from that immutable truth, and litteraly contradiction become impossible because there isn’t a place for it.

At least, the religious type can rely on the fact it’s unclear just how much of the population will get to the paradise directly. Maybe standards are really low or really strange. Here, there’s a mountain of observable facts about success that they refuse to see.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Ohlmann

The semen retentist in the other thread show how their reasoning work : there is an immutable truth, everything in the world follow from that immutable truth, and litteraly contradiction become impossible because there isn’t a place for it.

And anything that seems to contradict it is a conspiracy run by someone else to deceive, and must be combated.

Sera the Gay Demon Queen
Sera the Gay Demon Queen
1 year ago

While the WWE is a fucking hell of a mess (Seriously the fucking dumb shit Vince has been up to can fill a book) and they treat their stars like crap at least they are willing to run a trans women in the womens category and have her win the championship so I’ll give them that… Vince should still fall off the top of the hell in the cell cage into an open manhole

Kei-O-What
Kei-O-What
1 year ago

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here and while I normally enjoy just reading the subject material and posts, (well, most of them,) this was so in my wheelhouse (I even have the match on my DVR) that I had to give my two cents in (and head’s up, it’s a lot.)

1. First of all, it’d be extremely generous to even call Val Venis a has-been because that gimmick (sleazy porn star) was peak Attitude Era (the actual John Wayne Bobbitt saved him from a similar “fate” via katana for sleeping with a Japanese man’s wife and it’s every bit as stereotypical as you could imagine), hasn’t been relevant in the wrestling world since then (late-’90s-early-2000s) and wouldn’t be on any wrestling fan’s list for greatest and/or most memorable champions (he’s held the Intercontinental championship, the second-tier belt, twice and never for more than a month,) so he’s just another one of those guys giving hot takes as a desperate bitter means for attention. Consider him no different than Roosh V in that he rode off being “edgy” and now just using whatever salty means to stay relevant and honestly, I’m not even reading what he said, just glancing at Futrelle’s responses (much like Roosh and the like).

2. “Choreographed” is the better word for pro-wrestling than just the usual tired line of it being fake because even champions like Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson (whose daughter, Simone is just starting in biz,) Chris Jericho (current AEW champion along with a laundry list of other titles especially in WWE) and Kofi Kingston have all said so, but defended it on the grounds that it’s no different than an actor winning an award as 1. You still need to be in proper shape to perform, 2. The crowd still needs to be into you so all the usual storytelling tropes still definitely apply and 3. Even with a booker (the storyteller behind the scenes) planning things out with room for improv within those plans, unexpected things can still happen and at the worst possible times.

Bad Things: Legit injuries, legit arrests, failed drug tests, wrestler should have been tested for drugs (ex. Jeff Hardy, who lives a rock star life in general, was so high out of his gourd in 2011 during a pay-per-view championship match that it was best for his and his opponent’s safety that he be pinned ASAP with the crowd chanting “bullshit!” and his opponent shouting back “I agree!”) and the audience just not being into the wrestler (ex. Roman Reigns has an entire Wiki page dedicated to how hated he was for being shoved down the audience’s throat, plus failed a drug test and nearly retiring due to a real-life bout of returning leukemia,) and/or storyline (AEW’s “Nightmare Collective” group was so hated for the wrong reasons that it was flat-out nixed by part of the group turning on each other and the leader literally going to therapy).

Good Things: While it was bad for Mustafa Ali getting legit injured (though he took it as destiny meant for Kofi,) that opening was filled by Kofi Kingston, who despite not winning, gave such a great performance that it lead to momentum of him eventually winning the WWE Championship at Wrestlemania and holding it for a few months despite only being seen as mid-card/tag-team material by the higher-ups for the past 11 years (which he even contemplated quitting years ago because his career stagnated until joining “The New Day” team which revitalized his career/passion; Becky Lynch being accidentally punched in the nose (by The Rock’s real-life cousin, Nia Jax, who fits into the Bad Things category like Reigns) and bleeding which lead to an iconic look of bloodied defiance, the crowd’s outright refusal to see her as a heel/bad guy because of how valid her points were and how tired they were of her opponent Charlotte Flair (also same reasons as Reigns) that she instead was revised as an anti-hero and that momentum lead to headlining/main-eventing the same Wrestlemania (35) as Kofi Kingston to become a double-champion (Monday Night Raw and Friday Night Smackdown are separate brands in WWE that each have their own Women’s title); And of course, Daniel Bryan was also legit treated like only an upper-midcarder by the brass for being too small and vanilla, but he was so popular it embarrassed said brass into also going with it to become one of their biggest stars in spite of said brass’s intentions. Hell, even John Cena, who for all intents and purposes is the 2010s Hulk Hogan (minus the racism and other asshole behavior,) was on the verge of being fired because he wasn’t focused on like the other “’02 batch/class” until he was heard rapping backstage, went as Vanilla Ice for Halloween then had a gimmick as a white rapper who freestyled on opponents en route to the ring, was so popular he became an anti-hero then eventually the face of the company… where people hated him as the precursor to Reigns except fans both knew it was how he was written so they hated John Cena The Character rather than John Cena The Person as he both agreed with them and made the most of it to the point that said detractors appreciate him in hindsight compared to the others.

3. This happened in AEW not WWE. Besides the facts that Vince McMahon’s real-life wife, Linda is both a failed politician against Richard Blumenthal in Connecticut and she was an early member of the Trump Administration before bailing, in 2006 Trump had a “Battle of the Billionaires” feud and, I shit you not, Trump was the face/good guy in the feud that even had Bobby Lashley (a buff Black ex-army soldier,) as his representative. There’s so much goddamn irony, foreshadowing, etc. to made there that it’s best to save that for another day/post. AEW “only” treats Nyla as a powerhouse villain with zero mention of her being trans, (meaning she’s simply treated as a villain who just happens to be trans and non-stereotypical Native American,) WWE’s latest LGBT-related storyline involved a male-female wedding interrupted by the bride’s secret jilted ex-girlfriend fighting said bride (and it’s a loooong story about all the various flavors of wrongness there) despite the fact that they both have an openly gay wrestler on the roster, Sonya Deville and that she’s been pushing for a tasteful romance storyline with her real-life BFF and tag-partner Mandy Rose, whose instead part of a straight love triangle. Also Jeff Hardy’s incident happened in another company, TNA (“Total Nonstop Action” aka “Impact Wrestling”) which doesn’t drug-test its wrestlers (among other infamous employment problems) which is why/how the incident happened when WWE has said drug policy in place.

4. Besides John Oliver going in on WWE’s ethical problems of doing shows in Saudi Arabia and WWE’s “independent contractor” status which is a legal loophole to avoid paying (McMahon even blamed low quarter revenue on the wrestlers being too injured,) Jesse Ventura outright stated he tried to unionize the locker room in the ’80s, but Hulk Hogan ratted him out. And while WWE does provide free rehab to even former “independent contractors” (ex. Dustin Runnels took the offer to get cleaned up for his pill problems during one of his stints away from the company before joining AEW,) their “Talent Wellness Policy” only came about after the sudden death of Eddie Guerrero in 2005 followed by further scrutiny with the murder-suicide of Chris Benoit (Boxer’s Dementia from all the diving headbutts to say the least,) and the 2007 drug scandal when ELEVEN wrestlers failed testing, which affected the talent pool and storylines to say the least. AEW, so far is the only wrestling biz that actually gives their wrestlers healthcare.

5. Besides deserving more credit than Lizuka gives Nyla (ex. an interview mentioned she was dubbed a ring general by her co-workers in how she coordinated a four-way match,) Riho as the inaugural champion bothered me because despite her surprising experience (she’s 22 and been wrestling since nine,) and the fact that she’s booked as an underdog winning more from cleverness than strength (ex. reversing an attempted submission hold into a quick pin,) she looks like a 12-year-old fan that was brought into the ring, plus the general problem of AEW has, especially with its Japanese wrestlers (“Why is that Japanese lady cosplaying as Freddie Mercury?”), is assuming American audiences already know who they are, combined with Riho having yet to give a promo and the infrequency of her appearances (though not of Brock Lesner’s level). One could even argue nepotism as she used to/still does tag with Kenny Omega, she being one of his on-screen friends threatened with being beaten up (and the deer-in-the-headlights obliviousness of just standing there besides his ranting opponent and the dead giveaway that she’d be the inaugural champion being that the women’s belt is exactly her size, meaning nearly every future women’s champion would have to carry it, drape it over their shoulder, etc. until they get a larger version. So besides representation, I’m glad Nyla won because of the badass presence she makes as the top of the division, her charisma and that she’s legit made me laugh in interviews and online.

6. I recommend The Daily Beast article on Nyla talking about her upbringing, family (she’s apparently married to a cis-woman and have kids together) and what wrestling means to her and what it could mean for any LGBT kids watching at home.

7. FYI: Sonny Kiss, who is Black and gay, is also part of the AEW roster (and was part of the short-lived “Lucha Underground” on the El Ray Network) and hasn’t been stereotyped either despite how genuinely feminine he is and how popular he is with the crowd no matter what a similar tool like Jim Cornette (even worse than Venis with a history of problems to the extent of being recently fired, again, for a racist remark) says.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

@Bananananana dakry

They never think they’re going to be among the left behind, when looking at their general behavior would indicate that, er… maybe they need some work done.

Oh, they’ve worked that out: All that matters is if you have the Correct Beliefs, and your actions are irrelevant. Thinking that works matter is for Papists.

PMD literature is FILLED with gloating over people who lived good, righteous lives being divinely punished because they slightly disagreed with what the author says that the Bible says.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Allandrel

All that matters is if you have the Correct Beliefs, and your actions are irrelevant.

This is one of the biggest practical differences between Judaism and Christianity that I’ve noticed. Most strains of Judaism emphasize personal actions over beliefs (deed not creed) while many branches of Christianity prioritize belief and faith.

PMD literature is FILLED with gloating over people who lived good, righteous lives being divinely punished because they slightly disagreed with what the author says that the Bible says.

That’s basically the ending of every Chick Tract.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

Which is very ironic when the new Testament is basically Jesus saying in 1759 different way that deeds are more importants than creeds.

I sometime wonder if the “expiation of our sins” that he is supposed to have done is seeing mankind epically missing the point of any of his speechs.

Sillabub
Sillabub
1 year ago

I’m just gonna point out that WWE did previously have one of their male talents pretend to be a woman and made him one half of the women’s tag champions, then some years later TNA did much the same thing but didn’t even get the dude pretend to be a woman, and I don’t recall Mr Venis or anyone else having hissyfits about this being “unfair to women”.

Plus Nyla Rose is not a million miles off a number of other, cis female wrestlers out there in terms of physique (Aja Kong, Awesome Kong, Viper, Nia Jax) so it seems to me like this is a particularly silly arena in which to claim a trans woman athlete is at an unfair advantage.

But then Val Venis hasn’t been relevant since the time he got his dick chopped off for a storyline so I’m very disinclined to care about what he has to say about this or anything else.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Ohlmann

I sometime wonder if the “expiation of our sins” that he is supposed to have done is seeing mankind epically missing the point of any of his speechs.

The thing about religious texts is that interpreters can twist them to justify just about anything. It’s the only way conservative evangelicals can support Trump’s policies and still think they’re following Jesus’s teachings.

banned@4chan.org
banned@4chan.org
1 year ago

Now, one of Nyla Rose’s coworkers screaming about this on Twitter fucking sucks, yes. BUT, Nyla isn’t being made to play out a story arc about winning the title “unfairly” simply by being trans. And I for one find that fucking amazing considering how recently the WWE had blackface-themed merchandise for a black wrestler.

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