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Open Thread: The Iowapocalypse, Trump’s State of the Union, Impeachment, whatever

As usual, there’s A LOT going on.

So enjoy this open thread. No trolls.

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Ohlmann
Ohlmann
8 months ago

@Kupo : okay. While you may have heard thoses arguments from closed sources apologists, they are entirely fictional and not based on reality. I don’t want to say that in a mean way ; they would be good arguments if they applied to open source software, but the term don’t mean that. (and it *is* pretty offensive to someone who have been paid to professionaly write open source stuff, but I guess you didn’t mean it)

it turn out that open source software is generally made by teams of professional, often backed by a corporation. Most of thoses accept exterior input only after vetting that it’s not, in fact, stupid or harmful. In short, the *ONLY* thing that define open software is that its source code is public. The most common other characteristic is accepting exterior contributions after checking they actually fit, but that’s not all open projects.

It also turn out that open software most definitely *isn’t* done by hobbyists. Few people, if any, contribute hundred of hours to a project without that being their jobs, and a lot of open source project just need a full time commitment.

I can’t stress it enough : most of your arguments don’t work because the situation litteraly can’t happen any more in a open source project than in a closed source project. It’s like saying a japanese house is prone to crumble because its frame is made of wood and paper.

Naglfar
Naglfar
8 months ago

@kupo

I once had a guest lecturer in college and he was a software engineer who built cars as a hobby and he thought agile was the best method for building a car because he could build a whole car in a weekend. He shared photos. It had a styrofoam body and he had never safety tested it and who knows what the emissions were like.

My uncle was a professor and he had the opposite happen. One of his students built an airplane and invited him for a ride; he politely declined.

A car built out of styrofoam? I’m having a hard time imagining how someone could come to the conclusion that that was a good material for a vehicle. I can only hope for his own safety and the safety of those around him he didn’t go driving with it.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
8 months ago

Honestly ? The anecdote about that styrofoam car have a 99.999% odds of being a fabrication. Maybe not from Kupo, but once again there is a big industry of liars against open source, just because a lot of company refuse the idea of open sourcing anything.

Then, there is the small and little part that Agile and Open Source have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. It’s reasonably widely used for closed source project, and reasonably widely used in open source project too.

Note that chrome and android have a very large part of open source, and yet work. Google is a pretty big fan of open source, and have professional teams that do things that works, open source or not.

Sheila Crosby
8 months ago

@Allandrel, @Paireon @Naglfar
More and more I suspect that someone has a safe full of compromat on Republican politicians, either in Mar a Lago or the Kremlin. They certainly behave like it. There’s a slew of them that went from normal republican callousnes to acting like they have a secret base hollowed out of a volcano. I swear Lindsey Graham changed right about the time the RNC had their computer hacked by the Russians

kupo
kupo
8 months ago

While you may have heard thoses arguments from closed sources apologists, they are entirely fictional and not based on reality.

Mansplain much? I’m a professional software engineer, I’m describing what I have experienced. I’ve contributed to open source and closed source. Ffs.

The anecdote about that styrofoam car have a 99.999% odds of being a fabrication.

I was literally there this is my own experience this is not an anecdote I made up and when I cool off I might go find the lecture notes I still have saved in my dropbox and see if the dude’s website is still up.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
8 months ago

Folks who make their living by DOING computer engineering tend to be more like Spock…(… a joke… is a story with a humorous colclusion…?)

those who make their living by USING it tend to be more like Dr. McCoy…. (… dammit, Jim, I’m a DOCTOR, not a computer technician….) 🙂

I’ve been in mechanical designing/engineering my whole life, using computers back when DOS was only 5.0 I’ve learned the biggest problem with computers is, the engineers do not make the decisions, the marketers do….

Naglfar
Naglfar
8 months ago

@Sheila Crosby

More and more I suspect that someone has a safe full of compromat on Republican politicians, either in Mar a Lago or the Kremlin.

It could be that the Russians have kompromat, but I think another explanation is simply that most of them realize that opposing Trump would lose them voters, so they go along with him to maintain stature.

But if they do have kompromat, I’d sure like to have a look at it if only to know the full extent of their awfulness.

Sheila Crosby
8 months ago

I’ve seen a kit car maybe 45 years ago. The body was some sort of plastic with (I think) glass fibre reinforcing. This was the body panels, not the subframe, obviously. Not the same thing as styrofoam, but not so enormously different.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
8 months ago

There are a few companies doing styrofoam cars now. The idea being they’re more eco-friendly and safer for pedestrians.

http://spira4u.com

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
8 months ago

@Kupo : if you had actual knowledge of open source, you would not say what you say.

I mean, seriously. That’s so far from observable reality that there is a problem. You can not know what open source is, but don’t pretend you know. Alternatively, you can say you are against open source, but then you need to use real argument, not the shit “it’s done by amateur” that is demonstrably false when 100% of the web browsers and like 75% of the web sites now run on open source software. (and while it’s most common in web industry, it’s not like there isn’t a ton of open source project used in all kind of industry !

I tried to chalk that to bad knowledge because the alternative is you being malicious. Plenty of anti-open source aren’t malicious, and I tend to want to not presume maliciousness, but you are cornering yourself here. Charitably, the very best interpretation is that you looked at open source ten or fifteen year ago, had a bad experience, and never ever looked back.

What particulary sell what you say as false is A – the confusion between open source software and a caricatural view of free software and B – the fact you confuse agile method and open source. Which, you know, are entirely different and unrelated stuff. And if an agile consultant try to also sell you open source, you should probably double check he isn’t a full bullshit consultant given that he try to push entirely different, unrelated things.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
8 months ago

@ Sheila Crosby:

There was a big(ish) market for “kit cars” in the ’60s/early ’70s… most were made to fit on a modified VW Beetle undercarriage, or at least with the engine/transaxle snatched from said bug, with bodies of “fiberglas” a DuPont trademark for glass fiber reinforced polyester resin. This is the same stuff that GM (Chevrolet) used on the Corvette, tho as with anything, the quality of the ‘glas varied somewhat.

I did several of these with friends, the lions share of the kits were designed with the “very skilled” hobbyist in mind….

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
8 months ago

@ all mammotheers…

If I am the one who started this “open source” shitshow we’re having on here now, I apologize….

It seems every time I joke about computer technology being bad, it turns into a fight….

🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁

rv97
rv97
8 months ago

I would have to agree with what Kupo said, but I’m frustrated and sad that most or even all prop software is motivated by profit. They are generally better in usability although open source software does adapt to accommodate the more pro-corporate lifestyle we have (e.g. DRM-locked streaming, designed to let culture exist only and be used for profit) or to otherwise better interface better with proprietary software as open source software becomes mainstream.

I prefer to support open-source software as a result. I do use and sometimes prefer prop software in some cases, but with the exception of gaming, generally only when an open source alternative exists already.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
8 months ago

And now Tom Perez is taking the nuclear option.
https://twitter.com/TomPerez/status/1225468833458245632

Mate the distance between Bernie and Pete was changing up.

kupo
kupo
8 months ago

you had actual knowledge of open source, you would not say what you say

I just said I’m a professional software engineer who has contributed to both open and closed source. You can fuck right the hell off. I know what the fuck I’m talking about. You’re going to dit there and tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about or what my experience with open source software is? FUCK. OFF.

kupo
kupo
8 months ago

@Eddie
This isn’t on you, it’s on Ohlmann. I made a lighthearted reply to Moggie and am now being attacked for being rightfully skeptical of open source as the solution to everything. It’s like blockchain (the software tech, not the Twitter tool) being held up as this amazing tool that can solve everything. It’s not and it can’t. And because my experience with the trustworthiness of open source tools is apparently different from Ohlmann’s he’s questioning my credentials and flat out calling me a liar. This is not new behavior for Ohlmann and it’s certainly not your fault.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
8 months ago

@ weird eddie

In England kit cars used to get a special “Q” numberplate; but that was also the same for imported vehicles.

Some friends and I had a Merc 608 van we’d bought in Ireland. When people asked why that had a Q plate we’d tell them it was a kit car and watch them get puzzled.

ChloroFluoro
ChloroFluoro
8 months ago

“How can the Democrats expect to run the country, when they can’t even run a caucus?

And Trump can’t operate an umbrella. Not to mention how many businesses he ran into bankruptcy.

Back in the mid-20th century (such a long-gone, quaint era) Adelaide Stevenson couldn’t get elected to the Presidency because he was divorced.

“How can he run a country if he can’t even keep his own household in order?”

Of course, the real problem may have been that Stevenson was deemed “too smart”. Nowadays, people want a President that they can “have a beer with”.

Sure, ‘Cause your beer drinking buddy can run a country. You know damn well that your beer drinking buddy couldn’t even run a brewery. But smart people are stuck-up elites, and we don’t them in charge.

May I just add, “AAAARRRGGG!”

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
8 months ago

@kupo:

I can’t think of anything worse than open source software for voting.

How about closed-source software created by a company whose CEO and board chairman was an active contributor to the Republican presidential re-election campaign and who promised to ‘help[…] Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President’ (Bush at the time)? That would have been Diebold. Being ‘accountable’ can mean something different when the person giving the orders from the top is blatantly partisan.

And people were commenting back then that the software on slot machines was far better controlled than the software on voting machines.

Honestly, I don’t trust any software for voting. You use software when you need things to be flexible and to be able to change them quickly. That’s exactly what you don’t need for vote counting. You need simplicity and general reliability. (Meaning that some degree of error is generally acceptable as long as you have some way of re-checking when things are close.)

Moggie
Moggie
8 months ago

@ChloroFluoro, did you mean Adlai Stevenson?

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
8 months ago

Really, voting machines in the U.S. are the search for a solution to a self-inflicted problem. Not only are the procedures for voting on a national office decided at the state level, leading to inconsistency in methods; but then you’re voting for potentially dozens of things at once, including things that aren’t elected positions in any other country as far as I know. (Who thought voting for a judge was a good idea? See also Roy Moore.) The former may not be changeable short of a constitutional amendment, but the latter can and should be fixed at the state level.

In Canada, national and provincial elections are just ‘put an X in the circle next to the candidate and then put the slip of paper in the box’. No electronics at all. The most complicated elections are municipal, where in Toronto you’re voting for mayor, local councillor, and school board member (for one of four different school boards). That gets a sheet with arrows that you fill in the middle to vote for a particular candidate, and the sheet gets run through a scanner to verify it (pretty much what Specialfrog said). In that case, the scanner can verify the ballot is filled out correctly and keep a basic tally, but the original paper sheets are still the official results.

rv97
rv97
8 months ago

I see a simple solution to all the bullshit in the world:

– Ban capitalism.

– Force a climate emergency even if it conflicts with what everything else the US (and the world) stands for.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
8 months ago

@Ooglyboggles:

And now Tom Perez is taking the nuclear option.

Looks at latest vote tallies

Sees Bernie in the lead

Hits scram switch

https://twitter.com/TomPerez/status/1225468833458245632

Jeez. Am I imagining things or is there a whole alien language in people’s twitter handles nowadays? Looks like flames or a rose indicates a Bernie supporter? Obvious blue wave is obvious (Dem support) and snowflake is likely ironic/reclamation after the insults the right wing have slung for the past few years. Rainbow presumably means LGBTQ solidarity, since that’s been true since the stone age (c. 1990 anyway). But why would a Yangbot be using a telephone symbol, etc.?

Don’t suppose anyone’s published a comprehensive guide or anything?

ChloroFluoro
ChloroFluoro
8 months ago

“@ChloroFluoro, did you mean Adlai Stevenson?”

Probably. I could have sworn that I looked it up and used the spelling that I found.

Just more proof that drinking beverages doesn’t necessarily qualify one for other tasks. ; )

kupo
kupo
8 months ago

@Jenora Feuer
Agreed, that would be worse. I was being a bit hyperbolic.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
8 months ago

you’re voting for potentially dozens of things at once, including things that aren’t elected positions in any other country as far as I know

I heard in Switzerland they have federal or local elections/referendums several times a year. Would Americans want to invest that much effort in their world-famous democracy?

(In Finland we vote about once a year, always only one thing at a time)

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
8 months ago

The amount of irregularities in the Iowa caucus, and the suspicious connection between the voting app and Buttigieg’s campaign pisses me off. I can’t believe they have the nerve to be so blatant about the whole thing. “Pete the cheat” is the kindest nickname I have for that corporate hack.

@Sheila Crosby

More and more I suspect that someone has a safe full of compromat on Republican politicians, either in Mar a Lago or the Kremlin.

From what we know both McConnell and Nunes do have compromats, given their involvement with Russia.

Now, I’d be interested to see what they have on Lindsey Graham that he did such an about face and went full 180° on everything he had said about Trump.

Something tells me it’s more than a simple sex scandal involving consenting adults, and it’s more in the realms of sexual assault or grooming.

ChloroFluoro
ChloroFluoro
8 months ago

I’d be interested to see what they have on Lindsey Graham that he did such an about face and went full 180° on everything he had said about Trump.

Something tells me it’s more than a simple sex scandal involving consenting adults, and it’s more in the realms of sexual assault or grooming.

Tell me that you couldn’t imagine Lindsey dressed up like a Southern Bell.

(And no, I am not shaming cross dressers, but I bet Lindsey would at the drop of a ruffled sun bonnet.)

Naglfar
Naglfar
8 months ago

@Diego Duarte

Something tells me it’s more than a simple sex scandal involving consenting adults, and it’s more in the realms of sexual assault or grooming.

Oh, for sure. There have already been so many conservative politicians found to have committed rape or even child molestation, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there are many more.

@Lumipuna
Where I live, we have one election each year. In even numbered years we elect senators, representatives, governors and presidents if they are up for election, and in odd numbered years we vote for city council, school board, mayor, and other local positions.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
8 months ago

I becoming very receptive to the idea of just giving leadership positions to whomever can pull a sword from a stone.

Moggie
Moggie
8 months ago

@Alan, how about the Lady of the Lake?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
8 months ago

@ moggie

how about the Lady of the Lake?

That would be this lass.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/king-arthur-sword-found-lake-438667

I love this tale; and I think what the guy says about why the sword allowed itself to be found is so sweet.

It’s funny though, that pool is reputed to be bottomless; but it barely comes up to her knees 🙂

Must be a magic thing.

ChloroFluoro
ChloroFluoro
8 months ago

There have already been so many conservative politicians found to have committed rape or even child molestation, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there are many more.

Over and over again, psychiatric and social research has shown that it is sexual repression– rather than sexual permissiveness– that results in what I would term, “maladaptive” deviant behavior.

And the more vehement the judgment, and the harsher the dehumanization of those whose sexual proclivities fall outside conservative norms of “proper ” sexual expression, the more likely the ones who are judging are struggling with desires that also fall outside those norms.

*********************************************************
Slightly OT, but my favorite television show is coming back on the air tonight.

Brooklyn Nine-Nine, which I love to an unnatural degree similar to the way that Jake loves Die Hard will be on NBC at 8 PM.

In keeping with the ethos of tolerance and respect established on this forum by David, I would like to quote Captain Holt:

“Whenever someone steps up and says who the truly are, the world becomes a better, more interesting place.”

Nine-Nine!

Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
8 months ago

Oh, but you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!

Daughter
Daughter
8 months ago

Good news from Thüringen! Kemmerich has resigned as Ministerpräsident!

It looks like hounding politicians with letters and e-mails can still work.

Democracy is not yet dead!

**Euphoria**

Moggie
Moggie
8 months ago

@Daughter, ouch, after just one day in office? He should be happy that he’s made history!

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
8 months ago

@ChloroFluoro

Tell me that you couldn’t imagine Lindsey dressed up like a Southern Bell.

I’m not going to speculate about his sexual orientation but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he were gay. But given the circumstances in which he turned to the “Dark Side” and considering how openly welcoming the Democrats would have been, I’m not thinking it simply falls within the realms of sexual orientation.

The complete about-face and boot-licking he has engaged in… it’s beyond fishy. He’s more than likely engaged in something illegal that would have ended his political career without support of the republicans.

ChloroFluoro
ChloroFluoro
8 months ago

@ Diego Duerte

I wouldn’t dream about disputing anything that you wrote.

I was not speculating about Graham’s sexual orientation, (nor do I care). The Southern Bell trope just popped into my mind because something about the “righteous” outrage that Graham affects has a pearl-clutching, fan-fluttering, “Oh-mah-delicate-nahves” sensibility that is different from the pompous outrage of others on the right.

Hearing Don Jr. protest the nepotism behind Hunter Biden’s job options makes me roll my eyes so hard they risk getting stuck at the back of my orbital sockets. He sounds like the entitled fratboy that he is, but I don’t picture him going into a swoon. (Stomping his foot perhaps, and trying to thrust out his chin?)

The Universe only knows what ugly secret Graham fears exposure over. It may have nothing to do sex directly–but I wouldn’t be surprised if it does.

When that sort go on about morality and honor, they usually relate those issues back to sex. After all, what’s a little predatory business behavior between friends? Environmental affronts, even killing someone with a car can be excused in their world.

(Damn, I am so depressed now. )

Sheila Crosby
8 months ago

@Weird That was likely it. I was only about 11 at the time so most of the details went right over my head.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

This isn’t going to turn into a Bernie Bro conspiracy theory website is it? Cause I see enough of that on Twitter. Sometimes people lack competence.

And I know it’s easy to be misinformed about how presidential primaries and caucuses work, so I’ll say it again. The DNC does not run them. The state parties run them.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Ohlmann,

Really, dude?

Dalillama
Dalillama
8 months ago

@Sheila Crosby

More and more I suspect that someone has a safe full of compromat on Republican politicians, either in Mar a Lago or the Kremlin.

The parsimonious answer is that they’re fascist fuckheads, and while they’d rather have had someone semicompetent in charge, this is their moment to seize power.

Sheila Crosby
8 months ago

@Diego @Naglfar

I know McConnel has the keys to the money chest and getting re-elected would be very hard without his support.
I know humans tend to follow their herd.
I know they’re not the nicest bunch of people. /British understatement

But I think we’ve got so used to their behaviour that we’re forgetting how unprecedented it is. It’s still a question of looking for another job vs betraying your country, and even the guy who’s retiring anyway (Lamar Alexandre?) voted for acquital. They don’t act like people afriad of losing their job; they act like people afraid of prison or the death sentence.

As Naglfar says, Lindsey Graham’s about face is striking. I’ve heard rumours that he’s gay for some time, and I know that most republicans would view that very differently than we do, but still – he acts like they’ve got proof of something very illegal.

Moggie
Moggie
8 months ago

@Sheila Crosby, their behaviour looks unprecedented because Trump is unprecedented (or, as he would write, unpresidented). These are not deeply principled men and women. They’re grifters, who will do whatever is necessary to maintain their power and privilege, and to serve their owners. At present, that means submitting to the Trump cult. And if one of them has a stirring of conscience, the prospect of murderous retaliation by Trump supporters might convince them to keep quiet.

There may be kompromat, but on the whole damn lot of them? That’s hard to believe.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
8 months ago

@Sheila Crosby

(…) even the guy who’s retiring anyway (Lamar Alexandre?) voted for acquital. They don’t act like people afriad of losing their job; they act like people afraid of prison or the death sentence.

Trump reportedly said that those who voted for conviction would find their head on a pike for it. And that may not be all too farfetched considering the way Trump riles up his base.

This might be my personal opinion, but I feel like the real reason Republicans don’t pass any gun control laws (and are now opposing even Red Flag laws: where threats have already been issued) is because they are all too aware of the fact that the ones doing the shootings are their supporters. Whereas the people who mostly get murdered are more likely to vote democrat, based on demographics and gender. They actually gain power by letting them happen over and over again.

Seriously, the way Trump and his media allies engage in stochastic terrorism would give any would-be traitor pause as to what would happen to them if they stepped out of line.

Naglfar
Naglfar
8 months ago

@Sheila Crosby

even the guy who’s retiring anyway (Lamar Alexandre?) voted for acquital. They don’t act like people afriad of losing their job; they act like people afraid of prison or the death sentence.

Trump’s trying to become an authoritarian dictator, so he’s scaring them into cooperating. If he gets that goal, he’ll want to execute anyone who opposes him. So, in a sense, they are afraid of the death sentence but not enough so that they’d think about how to actually prevent fascism taking over. They’re pulling the fascist trick of selling out everyone else to save their asses.

@Moggie

There may be kompromat, but on the whole damn lot of them? That’s hard to believe.

When there are so many awful people in a group, it becomes easier to believe that every one of them has done at least something awful that could damage their reputation if it got out.
There are very few, if any, innocent Republicans.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
8 months ago

OpenBLAS is the best BLAS library, out-performing Intel MKL even on Intel architectures. The OS code for Linux is open-source and vastly out-performs Windows. I can think of a lot of examples like this. Open-source is the cornerstone of academia, it couldn’t exist without it. All of the best research is done in open-source, and then is swiftly adapted into closed-source as if it had been there all along.

Snowberry
Snowberry
8 months ago

I don’t think we should use language which could be seen as feminizing to describe Lindsey Graham, even if it’s not intended as such. He already gets shamed a lot for being a gay crossdresser despite the fact that there’s no evidence that he’s gay or a crossdresser and it’s not shame-worthy even if he was.

And that’s if he’s not being shamed for being a pedophile, a transwoman, or even a drag king (and yes, I saw someone do that, they shamed him for being a woman trying too hard to pretend to be a man). Most of those people are supposedly liberals. Let’s do better than that, and call out that kind of stupidity on our side.

If Lindsey Graham is to be shamed for anything, it’s for having no principles whatsoever. His moral compass is always aligned towards and a bit lower than whoever he currently sees as strongest conservative. Which is, right now, Trump.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
8 months ago

This isn’t going to turn into a Bernie Bro conspiracy theory website is it? Cause I see enough of that on Twitter. Sometimes people lack competence.

Seconded.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
8 months ago