Open Thread: #BrexitDay and the impeachment fiasco oh and maybe also the coronavirus

Ohlmann: I guarantee that panic is not the best reaction to coronavirus, or to pretty much anything in fact.

China has been reasonably forthcoming, and any failures in their response, I doubt a western country would have done any better. But the media feels the need to panic, and there’s a whole bunch of BS online.

Example: the media breathlessly reported that the entire medical system had collapsed and patients were having to wait *two hours* at the clinic in Wuhan… and I was thinking last time I went to the clinic in Montreal I had to wait from 7:30 to 15:30, the first hour outside in the rain with a bunch of other people with flu-like symptoms (first come first served, doors open at 8:30, not many people after me got to see a doctor).

@VP Yay! You can’t keep a good parasol down.

@Moggie Good luck. I hope you enjoy the free time.

@Dormouse All the hugs you want.

The most sensible take I’ve seen on the coronavirus so far is from the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/what-is-coronavirus-symptoms-wuhan-china-how-worried-doctor
TLDR: Regular flu is around 1% lethal. This is around 2%. It can pass from human to human but not easily. It’s not good, but it’s not remotely the end of the world.

I’m really depressed about Brexit. Personally I’m safe since I live in Spain and have almost 30 years residency, but I’m worried for people I love and for the millions of people who are going to suffer the brunt of Boris’s brand of “fuck you for not being rich.”

I think we need some more brain bleach around here. Would you like a baby otter?
http://www.cutestpaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Otter-pup..jpeg

@ Numerobis;

But the media feels the need to panic, and there’s a whole bunch of BS online.

As since the days of “yellow journalism” in the 19th century, the media sees $$$ in panic, and “online” is a BS incubator

Not that it’s all the fault of “the media”, but any media organization is going to be aware of the idea that whoever has the biggest headline will get the mostest clicks.

Conservatives, particularly, feel that reviewing the data is not the path to truth, as the data is suspect — not just particular data, but the IDEA of data is suspect. If you want “truth”, you get it from “authority”… and authority is whoever agrees with me.

Regarding the “this goes to 11” conversation a couple of posts ago, here’s a great comic:

http://xkcd.com/670/

Regarding following along on Trump and all, I have found my free subscription to this daily email to be invaluable:

http://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/

This covers important stories, including ones my news junkie friends never hear about, and provide the link to the article at the end of every summation.

Coming in late, but I am utterly sad and concerned and more than anything fucking livid about Brexit. To the point where I don’t even want to read about it anymore or all those emotions will rise again and there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m unspeakably disgusted at how our politicians and media have played millions of Brits for chumps, for decades, but I heap responsibility on the heads of those voters too. Yes, there were some Leavers who did their homework and had valid reasons to vote (nobody said the EU is perfect) and some who were swayed in the heat of the campaign but it feels like a whole chunk of them are stubbornly sticking to their choice out of nothing but raw unthinking emotion and stubborness. We all have a responsibility to change our minds when new facts come to light. Those people haven’t and look where we are now.

And yeah, the same goes for Trump supporters. Blind, unthinking devotion rooted in egotism and not even federal crimes can change their opinion of him. Because he makes them feel good.

@sunnysombrera Exactly. Who needs facts and reality? It’s only our kids’ futures on the line.

I had someone I used to respect tell me that the EU was a fascist organization. I wish I’d thought fast enough to congratulate him on his courage, because if the EU were fascist (as opposed to imperfect) then openly campaigning against them would be really, really dangerous, right?

@Yutolia

Wait, what?

He still WORKS THERE?

That’s absolutely horrible and I absolutely HATE how he has to physically do something to you or your property before the police take it seriously.

@sunnysombrera

it feels like a whole chunk of them are stubbornly sticking to their choice out of nothing but raw unthinking emotion and stubborness.

I think that description describes virtually any right wing political movement. Of course, the conservative projection complex means that they claim that the left are the unthinking ones who go solely based on emotions.

If only someone told the conservatives that facts don’t care about their feelings…

@sunnysombrera

Yes, there are issues with the EU – primarily, they are an organization with roots in trade and industry (as the European Coal and Steel Community being its precursor), established to prevent future conflicts, and so would prefer to enact policies that prioritize business over everything else. I find especially the EU’s attitude towards intellectual property to be very problematic (they want to make it easy for entities to use and hoard culture for profit – many countries in the EU lack the freedom of panorama and have done so since their membership too).

However, I do find that the EU, compared with the US, does a far better job with protecting consumers – the GDPR may be a good example of this.

I think some of the most ardent Leavers were extremely enthusiastic to further restrict immigration out of xenophobia, racism and purely hate.

And yes, leaving the EU would make the UK far more like the US considering the UK is no longer bound by the EU’s relatively progressive outlook on human rights compared to other international organizations.

That owl is indeed superb! I had an invite to a superb owl party, but we declined last week, which I am now very glad we did. Buried under snow, buried under work.

@Moggie

That is incredibly depressing. I feel sorry for your sister, who presumably had to have that conversation in real time with a real live human being and think of some way to respond.

@Nequam

So I don’t know if your comment fits within or without the guidelines of the comments policy. It’s a bit of an edge case, I think. Also, I’m pretty sure you aren’t being literal; I believe your comment was intended to be taken as humorous exaggeration.

Still, I just want to say that I find it personally distressing to see someone say that the problem with mass murder is that it is an ineffective way to achieve goals, and not that it is mass murder. What I take from your comment is that if eugenics worked it would make sense for us to kill Moggie’s sister’s acquaintance and anyone we judge to be genetically similar to them in some way we deem meaningful. So that’s really upsetting to me. I don’t know if that’s just a me thing or if others might feel the same.

My sister told me about a friend who voted to leave the EU because she wants to be able to buy incandescent light bulbs again, and believes that a go-it-alone UK will reverse the ban.

Well, why not. Back before the EU membership, 50 years ago, nobody in Britain was talking about banning lightbulbs. Nobody was talking about climate change either, so presumably global warming will reverse too, if only for the purposes of British weather.

@Snowberry

Conservatives generally have no faith in that process. If you can manipulate data to conclude anything, then there’s no trust that data as a concept can’t itself be manipulated.

My suspicion is that Conservative’s have no faith in the collection of actual data because either they have a history of actually manipulating data for the sake of agenda’s and like to project that Liberals, Democrats, Progressives and other left wingers are ‘somehow’ going the same (even though they aren’t)… or because it’s placing ‘faith’ in a scientific or at least vaguely scientific process to come to truth when they on average have unfounded distrust and hate science and think putting ‘faith’ in science is wrong and would rather put faith in aforementioned intuition or religion because they think that’s where ‘faith’ should be placed in.

Or perhaps a little of both. Needless to say that is the real “feelz over realz” mindset that they like to project on others. And darn it it’s a little annoying to have to stoop to using their nonsense rhetoric; but I suppose if we turn it around and address them as they address us; it would probably ruffle their jimmies a bit. Honestly it would be more accurate if it was done so.

@Naglfar

If only someone told the conservatives that facts don’t care about their feelings…

Well it’s what I keep telling them whenever they keep saying things that are short, quipy and wrong after unpacking their nonsense. They tend to not like having their psychologically projected bad rhetoric thrown back at them.

@Nequam

Not kill– just keep from becoming parents.

That’s still definitely not okay. Speaking as someone who might have been sterilized in the recent past (and don’t forget forced sterilization still does happen to vulnerable groups).