By David Futrelle
The Nazification of the MGTOWs continues.
The MGTOW movement in general, and the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit in particular, has long been infested with racists, antisemites and other assorted alt-rightists. And despite a few weird squabbles along the way — some alt-rightists fault the women-avoiding MGTOWs for not helping to produce their quota of white babies — MGTOWs and alt-rightists mostly get along swimmingly, and the overlap between the two groups seems to be growing larger and larger.
Consider, for example, a recent discussion in the MGTOW subreddit n the burning question of who exactly is responsible for the alleged dumbification of the world — which some MGTOWs blame on women, while others blame (((the Jews))). (Never mind that the premise of the debate is nonsense; if IQ tests are even vaguely reflective of actual intelligence, the world has been getting smarter, not dumber, ever since the tests were first introduced, and even if IQ is bunk, there’s no evidence people are getting dumber.)
“How much can you bet that female mating decisions are causing a HUGE drop in IQ?” asked a MGTOW Redditor called LiftedTruckDude in a post a month ago.
I can hear the REEEEEEing already. But look at women’s choice of mates today versus in the 1950s. Because of welfare bux women no longer care if their mate can actually hold a job or not. So you have a bunch of women having kids during a one night stand with some idiot gangster. I can almost guarantee that this is going to have ramifications down the line.
Other MGTOW Redditors jumped in to support Mr. TruckDude’s thesis.
“Women’s breeding strategy never was and is about IQ,” wrote someone called 2ludwig, talking about women as if they were cattle. “They always preferred and prefer the strong, militant bad boys.”
But it didn’t take long before racism came creeping barreling into the discussion.
“Yes, unchecked female mating strategy lead to a mass drop in iq,” proclaimed liberteus.
It’s even worse when you factor in immigration: women in Europe want refugees, and if you read stories most of the women “hosting” refugees also get screwed. …
But yeah, ultimately taxing the smart to subsidize the idiots … reduces number of kids for smart people. North America is dumbed down, Europe is dumbed down at an even faster pace. This is the real thing that leads to civilisational collapse.
A commenter called sebastian0801 managed, somehow, to be even worse:
I you give women even more benefits for even less responsibility. Then wonder why they spend less effort in being productiv …
Then immigrate lots of low iq muslim migrants and third world people for them. Here in germany i see many young women have some migrant boyfriends. …
Normaly the white man should remove the immegrants back to her country and put the women in her place. …
Many women got pregnant by these low life immegrants. Mother a slut with a low iq father parasite migrant also low iq.
The children will be low iq. The following generation of these people will drop our iq level on a very low point.
Meanwhile, other commenters pointed their fingers at the group they see as the real culprit for all this allegedly “dysgenic” behavior — the people allegedly pulling the strings. Some were a teensy bit coy about naming the group, but their particular dogwhistles are so blatant they’re more like car alarms.
“[W]elfare and third world immigration is a dysgenic program,” wrote Belrick_NZ.
a deliberate dumbing down of the general western population to ease command and control.
meanwhile a certain ethnic group is maintaining their racial purety.
“((((Who))) could that be?” replied another commenter.
I don’t know, ((((((who?))))))
It’s telling that the only people the MGTOWs can even imagine hating more than women are Jews.
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@Buttercup
What if Chad is a street gangster? The “gangster” is a pretty transparent dogwhistle for a black person (or “Tyrone”, as the incels call them), and the idea of white women sleeping with hypersexual minority men is an age-old racist trope.
Even if I accept their premise, the logic doesn’t make any goddamn sense. If before the 50s, women didn’t get to choose their partners and male selection meant that humanity became Better and Smarter, then shouldn’t the “stupid gene” have been wiped out over the thousands and thousands of years of human history prior to 1950? Surely if merely a handful of generations over 70 years have had such a drastic evolutionary change in the quality of humanity, then over 10,000 years of men choosing their partners should have resulted in proportionally enormous results?
@Catalpa
The existence of MGTOWs and the like is proof that the “stupid gene,” if we are to accept such a notion, is still very much with us.
Ok thank you, I did not pick that up. I’ve seen it before, but did not know it was asociated with autism.
Sometimes I’m still just baffled by the depths of hate people put into their words. Which is odd, considering how much of it we see flung around on a regular basis.
@ David:
I take issue….
🙁
@ Naglfar:
… and thank you for your service!!
O/T, but this may be of interest to anyone who is interested in both women’s issues and the environment.
https://www.iucn.org/news/gender/202001/environmental-degradation-driving-gender-based-violence-iucn-study
You know, part of me is rather astonished that the little world that they’ve built that explains human interactions so neatly never crumbles into dust the minute they go outside. Seriously, any trip to a public park should demonstrate a variety of people not behaving in the weird transactional manners that they claim they do. Couples of all kinds walk hand-in-hand, those with children do their best to entertain and manage them, joggers jog, people are just out having fun.
All I can think is that on some level, they’re out to collect grievances that reinforce this little narrative they’ve latched onto. They’d ignore the half-dozen or so traditional couples pushing strollers along the sidewalk while focusing on the one interracial couple that passes by and they just start seething with anger about how “Western civilization is doomed” or somesuch crap.
What also floors me is how these guys think that they’re the big brain-geniuses compared to all the people they’ve singled out for their ire. As other commenters pointed out, IQ is an obsolete and manifestly misapplied method of determining intelligence, yet these galaxy-brains believe that they’re the ones with “superior IQs” to anyone vaguely different-looking than them.
Personally, I think it takes a misapprehension of intelligence to believe this, where “genius” or “intellect” is equated with having fast and simple answers to everything rather than having the curiosity to want to learn more all the time. It’s the lazy person’s idea of what a smart person is and sadly the internet makes it very easy to trick people with that ruse.
@Katamount
Yup. They only see what they want to see with their confirmation bias, and that’s how they keep their view up. When you project your own narrative onto everything you see, it seems to conform to your narrative even if they bear no resemblance.
This is why Jordan Peterson is so popular among these types. He’s the poster child for this definition of “intelligence” and so lazy and angry reactionaries see him as a leader of sorts. He’s fooled them (and maybe himself as well) into thinking he’s a genius.
You’re assuming they go outside, or at least anywhere that isn’t to and from whatever job they may have and a few stores. I wouldn’t be surprised to find many are the American equivalent of hikikomori.
@naglfjar : while hard to prove, I somewhat have the impression thoses people don’t find Peterson particulary intelligent or brillant. I have the impression they like him because he dare to say what they think.
By that I mean that discussions with my family and with far right people I know for unfortunate reasons make me think they are somewhat smarter than it seem and that they aren’t really fooled by thoses bad impersonation of intelligence. While they don’t say it outright, it seem that they know he is dumb (well, not smart at least) and don’t care.
@Ohlmann
In my experience the fans seem to see him as some sort of Messiah more than anything else. They are very cult like in nature and have far more devotion to him than any other ideologue.
@ Katamount:
Far as I can tell, any time they see a couple where one person is more conventionally attractive than the other, they explain it away as “the less-attractive one must be rich” and/or “the more-attractive one must be just using their partner to taunt incels and make us jealous.”
I feel like the latter explanation is particularly dangerous – I once read a letter to an advice column from a guy whose friend had, several times over the years, said “no thanks” to his advances, but every time he saw her flirting with a guy who wasn’t him, his reaction was: “that guy isn’t hot enough for her to be genuinely interested> therefore she must be just using him to make me jealous> therefore she *is* into me, despite what she says.”
@ Troubelle:
Hey c’mon, my baby-daddy “Legs” Diamond is a mensch!!!
I tend to see intelligence in general as how much you know, while IQ determines how easily you learn. Therefore, anyone can be intelligent by knowing a lot of things, IQ just determines how much work it takes to get to that point.
Of course, I subscribe to Gardner’s Theory of Multiple Intelligences, which states that intelligence is actually divided into categories and different people have different strengths and weaknesses, so it’s more accurate to say that I see IQ as a measure of a person’s aptitude for logical-mathematical reasoning, which is only 1 of 8-10 categories of intelligence, depending on which version of the theory you go with.
@Nequam
Well, I think at least a certain amount of time outside in the real world is necessary to human survival, even if it’s just going to buy groceries. I’m pretty much a homebody myself, but even just taking the subway trip to and from work demonstrates
@Naglfar
Yeah, JP is the kind of guy who’s perfect to fill that kind of niche. He also has the Internet Daddy life advice and is just vague enough not to challenge any preconceptions.
Child of a Jew and non Jew here. Such marriages are so common that when my sisters traveled to Israel on Birthright, the generational dilution of Jewish bloodlines and cultural heritage was a subject often raised on tour as what they called the “Silent Holocaust.”
Jews, as it turns out, are in fact worried about maintaining their existence. They’re just not looking at scapegoating any particular group(s) of people in response.
@Sarity
In fact, I’d say the main reason many Jews worry about existence is because invariably we are the ones getting villified and genocided.
I’m not worried about interfaith marriages, I’m worried about getting killed.
IQ is not a measure of anything, apart from the ability to do IQ tests.
It’s not a measure of how easily you learn, because it don’t care about non-intellectual learning, like learning how to make shoelaces or prepare a meal.
It’s not a measure of how easily you learn academic stuff, because it center not on looking if one is able to learn new academic stuff, but if s/he know a bunch of generic stuff.
It’s not a measure of general knowledge, because there’s nothing in it to check one actually understand how things works, it’s too superficial for that.
Most exams have the problem of measuring more how well someone is able to pass that test than anything else, but for IQ it’s particulary obvious. From what I have seen, it might be significantly better than SAT, but not because it’s a high bar to pass.
(said from someone whose test have alternated between being “borderline idiot” and “genius”)
These people (Alt-Right, MRA, PUA, MGTOW, NAZIs, etc, ad infinitum) make me tired all over. They are a stew of ugliness that never fails to disgust me. When I think that I have grown so jaded and cynical that no level of terribleness could surprise me, they up the ante again. It’s exhausting. And I am operating from the perspective of someone with a ton of privilege. It’s this terrible for me, as a straight white middle-class man. I cannot imagine what all of this looks like from the position of someone who can actually be damaged by the actions of these assclowns.
Aaron, great. Now I have a craving for a pastrami on rye.
One of the things (just one) that annoys me about this variety of putz is their routine assertion that women have historically married men they chose for themselves.
I don’t know of any evidence that this was standard practice prior to the XXth century in any part of the world. Of course, asserting things without evidence because it fits their narrative *is* standard practice for them.
Regarding the Lobster King, there’s been a trend over at r/JBP to bemoan the perceived discrepancy between Peterson’s message and the mouthbreathing hammerheads who congregate on the sub.
@Robert
especially when you consider that marrying because you love someone and no other reason then that is a relatively new thing for society.
Oh, good– creepy anti-Semitic Coast Guard guy who was also a migtoe:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/939kmv/us-coast-guard-officer-facing-gun-charges-researched-how-to-rid-us-of-the-jews-court-docs-reveal
@Nequam
Why am I not surprised? Every MRA/MGTOW/Incel is a ticking time bomb.
So, the decline in the human races intelligence is because WOMEN
marry & breed with “inferior” men?
In every list of desirable attributes in a potential mate these wankers make, “looks” (especially thinness), is always #1; and the least desirable trait is intelligence.
Because for all their BS whinging about the “good of the race”, what they really want in a mate is a woman who gives them a boner (with idealized #10 looks) & to avoid what makes their boner sad (a woman who might make them feel dumb.) Transient pleasure wins over optimal offspring.
If they actually cared about the future of their race, they would advocate men find the smartest women they could to be the mother of their children.
(BTW, who says these “gangsta guys” aren’t intelligent? They may be bad providers, but it takes a smart person to survive in a society that has systematically oppressed you for generations. OTOH, I haven’t noticed that the PUA types were any more committed to be fathers to their potential offspring than any “gangsta guy”.)