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men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny reddit women shouldn't work women's jobs aren't real

“Women should never have joined the workforce and 90% of their jobs are a useless joke,” MGTOW who was probably scrolling through Reddit at work declares

Dude hard at work

By David Futrelle

Misogynists really seem to think there’s some kind of vast worldwide conspiracy to give women cushy jobs they still can’t do properly, because, you know, women are all incompetent and lazy. Consider this lovely little screed posted recently in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit:

Women should never have joined the workforce and 90% of their jobs are a useless joke. (self.MGTOW)

submitted 2 months ago by CocotheClown5000

That's it really. They are net tax drains despite working 40+ year careers and 11-16 years of education. They sort of mimic men by getting qualifications and jobs but really both their qualifications and jobs are a pointless joke with actual negative worth to society. They seem to revolve around sitting in a chair and talking on the phone most of the time and if not it will almost always be something where she spends all her time indoors doing no actual physical or creative work. Women should go back in the home and do feminine things. Technology = curse

Chance that this guy is doing a job that involves physical labor: 0%.

Chance that this guy spends his days at work sitting in a chair: 100%.

Chance that he’s writing this post while ostensibly at work: 110%.

Naturally, CocotheClown5000’s peers in the MGTOW subreddit agreed wholeheartedly with his thesis. My favorite response in the bunch came from this dude, who is evidently mad that women aren’t all being forced to make him shoes:

Nestroit 11 points 2 months ago 
absolutely, productivity and quality are declining, women belong into the kitchen. They are not able to perform on the level of men. Instead of doing easy work they are now chasing useless doctor and professor titles, bitch at least make me some pullovers or shoes, make yourself useful!

Make yourself useful, dude, and shut the fuck up.

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Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
9 months ago

Pretty much the most bullshit job i usually ever encounter is CEO, because in reality that job is jointly performed by the lawyer and accountant of the company (the CEO is usually just the conduit of whatever advice is given to him by the other two).

And whenever you run into a company being run into the ground, it is usually a CEO that either does not have the aforementioned two, or that does not listen because he think he knows better.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 months ago

@ lainy

I used to train Krav with a ballet dancer. She could kick like a mule; but, as I am always saying, her feet looked like she’d been caught cheating in a Mafia run casino.

Snowberry
Snowberry
9 months ago

For those people here who think it’s some kind of hypocrisy or lack of self-awareness for someone who hates technology to spread their word through the internet, I’d remind you that it’s equally hypocritical and/or self-unaware to rail against modern capitalism while holding a job or buying groceries under a capitalist economy, as an example. People have to be allowed to act against their own ideals when failing to do so would be self-negating or self-destructive, because otherwise virtually any social or civil rights movement imaginable would implode before it ever got off the ground.

Not defending any part of the OP, but pointing out that this is not a valid line of criticism. I mean, if you’re engaging in trollish mockery, then by all means, but I’ve seen this used as a serious argument far too often.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Snowberry

People have to be allowed to act against their own ideals when failing to do so would be self-negating or self-destructive, because otherwise virtually any social or civil rights movement imaginable would implode before it ever got off the ground.

I don’t think the MGTOW getting off the Internet would be self-negating or destructive. I get that we all do things to survive, but posting on the MGTOW subreddit is not a survival necessity.
When I originally commented on this I was just suggesting that usually MGTOWs love tech (like sexbots) and that this was a bit contradictory to the usual attitude.

Snowberry
Snowberry
9 months ago

@Naglfar: While I wasn’t mainly responding to you, unless I’m completely misunderstanding you here, that’s still kind of a bizarre attitude to take. A lot of people here make off-topic conversation about random issues and things in their personal lives. This is tolerated, because this is fundamentally treated as social environment even if it has a specific focus. You don’t need to survive to post off-topic here. You *could* go to a particular environment which specifically discusses your whatever, and probably should if it gets really in-depth, but otherwise there’s little need to do that when there’s already a community you trust right here. Why is it any more inappropriate for MGTOW to whine about technology alongside the usual MGTOW whining in a forum specifically for MGTOW whining, which incidentally happens to be on the internet?

I mean, the very concept of MGTOW seems hypocritical from the outside, and that our concept of what it would mean would largely negate the need for internet MGTOW forums… but remember that they’re using a definition of “GTOW” which seems utterly ridiculous from our perspective, and for the time being they have every right to define themselves that way.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Snowberry
You’re right, I guess I’m just reading too much into this. I agree that MGTOWs are hypocritical to an extreme and I probably shouldn’t devote too much thought to specific contradictions in their worldview.

Paireon
Paireon
9 months ago

To be fair, I was pretty much mocking/trolling, personally. Also, as I’d mentioned, methinks in his particular case (given how MGTOWs seem to usually be) he likely was rather lacking in self-awareness, while I’m very aware of my company job (even if it’s a small company) just being yet another cog in the capitalist economy that’s screwing us all over.

As SS officer Otto Rahn said to a Swiss Jewish friend who confronted him about it: “One has to eat.”*

*From an interview for Richard Stanley’s documentary The Secret Glory. Warning: dangerous levels of mystical Nazi claptrap, but by the same token a fascinating glimpse into one facet of it, as long as you take it all with a boulder of salt. Can easily be watched for free on Internet, although caveat scrutator, there could be some Neo-Nazis lurking there (didn’t see any but I only gave a cursory glance to the webpage).

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
9 months ago

ThirstySasquatch
Even the subjects women “excel” in ar universities are subjects that require no creation. They excel at memorzation….biology, psychology, etc. All stuff somebody else studied and they just memorize.

But that’s true of literally every major, including the “manly” STEM disciplines. Math, programming, physics…the stuff you’re studying, you didn’t make up either, fellas. Shoulders of giants, and all that.

That being said, every student has to create something original at some point, even (especially even) in the humanities. Psych majors have to design and execute studies, English lit majors have to write essays and analysis, art majors have to sculpt and paint, and so forth.

This sounds like the projected complaint of someone who got mediocre grades because of his belief that education is nothing but regurgitating received facts, and he’s resentful about being left in the dust by women who are capable of absorbing new ideas.

They are net tax drains despite working 40+ year careers

How? By definition, that’s 40+ years worth of extra tax revenue paid into the system. The last half of the sentence negates the first half (and he acknowledges it with the word “despite”, but then doesn’t bother to substantiate his argument).

But really, what kind of society is it where intellectually lazy white dudes can no longer fail up?

kupo
kupo
9 months ago

@rv97
Just saw your reply because it wasn’t appearing before. I assume you were in moderation.

I hope your company mandates some sensitivity training and stops hiring privileged and able-bodied cis white men for an extended period of time, and/or firing everyone who is guilty of such offensive behaviors.

So first, it’s illegal to discriminate against people based on race or disability status, yes, even towards privileged people.

We have yearly HR training that’s the typical explanation of workplace harassment and conflict of interest, that kind of thing. Like every company does.

Now, can you point to a single fireable behavior outside the misogynistic jokes (which I’ve reported precisely once because, guess what, reporting makes you the problem, so I only reported an extremely egregious one)? There aren’t any. See, this is all background noise everyday sexism. They don’t get their egos bruised at me, they’re just not good at regulating emotions because society hasn’t ever taught them to. They don’t tell me I have to do the documentation, they just don’t bother to do their own so mine is the only documentation there (this is slightly better at my current job, where the leads and seniors will document, too). The other stuff is even more subtle. They don’t even know they’re doing it, probably. At least my current team doesn’t interrupt me all the time, so that’s a bonus.

I don’t know what state you live in but I hope your company gets sued massively and some legal action is taken from it too. I hope an exposé gets conducted too. If I were in your position, I would do this (assuming that the privacy laws of your state are relatively lax compared to here in the UK and if your state is leftist, or a significant portion of people who live in your state are leftist).

Lolol. That’s not how anything works. This is fucking standard. I really don’t feel like pulling up studies, but this is feminism 101 shit. This happens all the time, everywhere, and is more concentrated in male-dominated fields. It’s systemic. Seriously, educate yourself on feminism. Read some studies about attitudes towards men vs. women in the workplace.

You’re working with entitled children. I’d call them pigs but it’s an insult to pigs, because I doubt they try to give females a bad hand.

Yeah, that’s what men are raised to be, doubly so in fields like computer science where they’re told they’re gods. And some women are like that, too! Have you read Ask A Manager at all or do you just not notice this shit?

Also, are there any decent men in your workplace who condemns the conduct of these employees?

Absolutely in my current workplace, including my lead, my manager, and my director. But what the fuck are they supposed to do about the thousand papercuts? I’m not going to complain about every little microaggression, either. That sounds exhausting. I do tell them when I notice trends like getting talked over, and they do what they can. But sometimes coworkers are just butts.

Because I am starting to hate men reading from what you’ve described.

We’ve talked to you about this. Don’t fucking pull this crap anymore. I don’t give a fuck how you feel about men as a result of hearing the fucking truth. Don’t put that on me that you can’t comprehend the difference between general societal trends and “all men are trash.”

If not, then I hope you get a job that better aligns with your values. I’m simply lucky to live in a “woke” city so I haven’t really experienced this first hand as much.

Yep, I’d better leave the profession I love because men can’t be bothered to treat me well. That’s fucking lovely.

(P.S. I also live in a “woke” city. We motherfucking rioted the WTO. That doesn’t change how society trains men to treat women.)

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 months ago

@rv97

I don’t know what state you live in but I hope your company gets sued massively and some legal action is taken from it too. I hope an exposé gets conducted too. If I were in your position, I would do this (assuming that the privacy laws of your state are relatively lax compared to here in the UK and if your state is leftist, or a significant portion of people who live in your state are leftist).

Do you recognize that you are shifting the responsibility to Kupo and other victims for the ongoing sexism they experience at work? You’re suggesting that there is a simple solution that they are simply choosing not to implement. It’s so simple a solution that you, a person who isn’t even in the situation, thought of it immediately.

Even if there were reasonable grounds for a lawsuit in what Kupo described (and IANAL, but it sure seems to me that there isn’t) lawsuits are extremely expensive, time consuming, emotionally draining. Suing an employer would probably make going to work every day a lot more uncomfortable, even if your employer does not retaliate, which they probably will in small, unprovable ways. And lawsuits can take years. Years.

It may be comforting to believe that if you were in a tough position there are actions that you could take to get out of it, but that is often not the case, and insisting that it must be suggests that people who are in that situation are just choosing to let it go on that way. That is untrue and unfair.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 months ago

Damn, just missed the edit window. Sorry for the double post .

I realized that with how I worded that I ended up referring to you as a victim, Kupo, without actually knowing if that’s a term you would use for yourself. I apologize for that.

kupo
kupo
9 months ago

@Viscaria
No worries! I took it as more of a general “the victim(s) of gender discrimination.” Not sure if I would call myself a victim at my current workplace, it’s actually way better than most! Maybe at that one place I talk about sometimes, but that place had bigger problems than the misogynistic jokes I had to endure.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@kupo
I’m sorry about the conditions at your workplace, and I hope they improve.

@rv97
Please, I beg of you to stop hating all men. It doesn’t help and it’s counter productive to the goals of feminism. It also acts as an excuse—if all men are shitty there’s no way for men to get better. It’s also an insult to good men in the world.

As well, like Rhuu said in the other thread, this is really hurtful to trans* masc folx and can make them feel bad or even dysphoric.
This is also the kind of logic TERFs use. They assume all AMAB people are predators, and you seem to be suggesting the same blanket view. Heck, I’m trans* femme and I recoiled reading your comment. I can only imagine how it feels to be trans* masc or AMAB non-binary and read it. You’re not punching up, you’re punching every other direction.

Please do what kupo said and read some feminist texts. I didn’t think I’d have to say this, but try to temper your hatred of men. Talk to a therapist if it helps. I’m kind of tired of having the same argument with you over and over again. About men, about religion, about whatever the topic du jour is the same conversation ensues.

Prith kDar
Prith kDar
9 months ago

Meteor wrote:

You mean like women doctors and judges and teachers and pilots and astronauts?

Those “joke” jobs?

Well, Nestroit did specifically say that “doctor and professor titles” were useless, at least compared to knitting and shoemaking.

vaiyt
vaiyt
9 months ago

Not surprised to see STEM elitists tossing the S aside when it becomes convenient. In my experience they tend to be techbros, technically minded but without much appreciation for epistemology or critical thinking.

Karalora
Karalora
9 months ago

I always have a handy dandy anecdote for these types of dudes. I work in a police station (in the IT department). Most of them seem to agree that a police station is pretty fundamental civilization 101 type of institution. It’s true that the vast bulk of the officers are male. However, if all the women in the building decided to not show up to work tomorrow, all police activity would effectively grind to a halt. Why? 100% of the dispatchers are women. So the police would be here but they would have 0 idea where to go, what to do, what they were walking into, or how best to respond. Likewise, any citations issued or arrests made would become pointless because everybody who works for the court department (other than the 2 marshalls) is female and they would be gone. There would be 0 way for people to pay fines, show up in court to plead their case, or otherwise have any resolution for their cases at all. They would either rot in jail indefinitely or no longer have to be held accountable for any crimes they commit. Also, most of the records department is comprised of women. There goes all of your ability to document pretty much anything as well.

That without even getting into the 20% or so of officers who are female. So on top of all that other chaos the police would be severely understaffed with 1 out of 5 officers missing.

These guys would probably tell you that if all the women went on strike, the men would effortlessly pick up their slack, because dudes are just That Awesome and lady-work is just That Useless.

PickleFields
PickleFields
9 months ago

Where is the monetary cutoff wherein we cease being a tax drain? Is it ok for a woman to work provided she makes over $100k a year and “creates something” at her job?

rv97
rv97
9 months ago

@Viscaria

I didn’t realize that but I would like something done about it. I don’t want Kupo to suffer with what they have to go through.