By David Futrelle
Lesbians around the world face a deep existential crisis today as it has been revealed that they do not, in fact, exist. At least according to some dudes on the internet. Specifically, some dudes on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, long a hotbed of Lesbian Denial.
In a recent discussion, a commenter by the name of NathanHollister explained that so-called “lesbians” are just straight women who can’t find quality men.
Lesbianism is not real. It’s just women who are sick and tired of unmasculine, wussy, spineless soyboy men. They will magically turn straight for a real sexy, charming man.
Basically, women who cannot find a top 20% man become lesbians. Women who can find a top 20% man but also are kinky sluts become “bi”, but mainly because they know a threesome with another girl would turn their man on.
Other commenters agreed with the “can’t get a man” theory.
“Lesbians only exist because Chad said ‘no’ and didn’t give them attention,” declared edgysecularist.
Still others feel that lesbianism is more about the hatred of men than the lack of them. According to bbhuntt:
Any ‘lesbian’ Is really a straight person who doesn’t like men and is willing to have intercourse with women rather than not have intercourse. …
Being a lesbian is the ultimate move of feminist and nothing more. It’s all a giant game
Sir_manalot suggested that it was also about status, as no one apparently has more status than women today.
[W]omen just fuck whoever they believe is highest on the social chain. Right now, women are being given a bunch of unearned power and so lesbianism is in.
Fortunately for men — or at least for the cis men who make up the overwhelming majority of MGTOWs — they have one great advantage over all these fake lesbians. And it can be found in their pants.
“You have a dick and they don’t,” wrote rejac218.
They will never know what a woman’s pussy really feels like from balls deep. You should laugh right at them.
But of course as MGTOWs they don’t spend any time at all fantasizing about said pussies. Nope! As SprinterLyfe reminded his fellow Own-Way-Goers:
Pussy is all women have to offer. By placing little or no value on pussy, we regain control of ourselves, finding legitimate freedom from feminized cultures bent on enslavement and domination of men by women.
And there’s no greater proof of the freedom these men have from women than their tendency to discuss these completely unimportant-to-them women angrily on the internet all day every day while talking about how cool their dicks are. That’s what male freedom looks like!
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Love how common it is for cishet men to think that “because I said so” is scientific data.
Thank you (belatedly; needed to free up some research time) for the suggestions. I’ve googled/Wikipediaed most of them by now.
Interesting that someone was clearly out as nonbinary two whole centuries ago.
First: I’m posting here since some posters seems to be quite funny and genuinely sex-positive.
In example most of you seems sincerely anti-TERFs and anti-SWERFs, as I’m. Indeed there are few transfolks following my blog.
Second: I’m bisexual, not “het”. ”
It would be nice to have some apologies for having presumed my sexuality, but I do not want apologies at all costs: I know it’s hard to recognize your own prejudices.
Third: 1,509 is well over the 1,000 that it’s the minimum to have a reliable stat. Most studies, oftent cited by various activists, just interviewed 200 or even less people.
@Naglfar
The study by University of Cyprus examined the biological role of lesbianism then asked men, to get the proof: indeed you have to ask men what excite them to understand what excite men. Indeed the hypothesis is that lesbianism exist to excite men and have been demonstrated by the study because that’s the only useful biological role they did find.
Nature doesn’t care: what is useful will keep existing, what is unuseful is gonna ending.
Last, but not least: about 10% of my articles are in English, NONE of them uses anectodes, they’re either about actual laws, proposed bills, or studies with more than 1,000 participants, in some restricted contexts more than 500 participants.
The blog is anti-TERF, anti-SWERF, anti-tradcon, pro-GBT, mostly neutral about the “L”.
Wow, terrific science, bro.
This is an amazing sentence. You uplift everyone in the community except women who definitely don’t want to sleep with you?
I forgot: they also asked het women, and they did find that gay sex excite het women much less than lesbian sex exciting het men.
The article on PinkNews is less silly than The Independent’s:
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/05/19/homosexual-behaviour-in-women-only-developed-because-of-men-new-controversial-scientific-study-claims/
So the study explains why lesbianism evolved (in the past, such evolution is totally unrelated with living lesbians’ feelings and thoughts: they know about themselves, not about evolutionary pressure over our ancestors during million years) and lacks an explanation about why male homosexuality evolved. That’s the only big flaw of the study.
It’s a theory, but backed by a serious study.
The idea of “asking lesbians about why lesbianism evolved through millions years” did make me laugh, though: it would be like asking living men why men evolved to be taller than women: their answers would be worthless, since men do NOT know why the male sex evolved to taller than the female sex.
@Eric Lauder
Nobody said you were. I said the study involved heterosexual men.
The problem isn’t the number, it’s who was asked. If you want to study something, asking random people probably doesn’t help.
Think of it this way: if I wanted to know about doctors, I’d probably want to survey doctors, not fishermen or professional ballet dancers.
Correlation =/= causality. By that logic, why do gay men exist? I can’t really see why gay men and gay women should exist for different reasons. Same sex activity has also been observed in dozens of other animal species.
False, most animals (including humans) have vestigial features like how whales have hips. Evolution doesn’t necessarily get rid of features when they don’t serve purposes, plus that ignores other potential purposes of lesbianism.
I agree with those, however I will note that whenever someone drops a letter from LGBT it seems to usually be for a disingenuous purpose (e.g. the transphobic LGB Alliance).
@Viscaria
Yes: 1,509 participants is much better than most studies you actually find on mainstream medias and various blogs. Some of them use just only 200-300 participants. Under 1,000 participants the results are worthless, unless it’s in a restricted particular context – even in those special cases the number however should never be under 500.
A special case was: a study among het boys aged 18-25 living together with another het boy same age. In such context the more than 700 participants are enough, given it’s a very specific and narrow population, much more defined than the general population.
“This is an amazing sentence. You uplift everyone in the community except women who definitely don’t want to sleep with you?”
Naturally.
Why should I uplift those who don’t and will never uplift me?
Everybody do so, even if they do not openly admit it.
Like, in example, a female feminist not uplifting “bromances” 😉
Someone obviously doesn’t know shit about evolution or genetics.
…or the scientific method.
Where’s the erectile sphygmometer, dammit?
@Naglfar
They asked random people about their attraction, not about the evolutionary role of their attraction.
The reason have been theorized by the study, following the findings.
I already said that the real flaw of the study is that it doesn’t explain why male homosexual activity evolved.
What the study showed is:
Gay sex doesn’t significantly increase the chances of a gay man to get pregnant a woman.
But lesbian sex (including bi women) increase the chances of a woman to get pregnant. Just because men will hit on bi (and lesbian) women more.
In our actual society, with contraception and laws against rape, “more men hitting on bi women” may sound an irrelevant factor, but 10,000/100,000 years ago, without contraception and nobody punishing rape, “more men hitting on bi women = more bi women getting pregnant”.
About the “pro-GBT, mostly neutral about the L”: mostly neutral doesn’t mean I advocate for restricting their rights. It does mean that I will not support free IVF as long as surrogacy is not decriminalized. When “L” organizations (not LGBT, just only “L”) will support the decriminalization of surrogacy, then I could change my mind. Right now, they’re for criminalization and even harsher penalties…
Here where I live: “L” (just only L, not LGBT) organization = TERF = SWERF = anti-surrogacy.
oh my goodness, strap in for block quote helllll
Eric said –
Visc said –
Eric replied
I just………..????????? YOU UPLIFT THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN!!!!!!!! Because people (apparently people like you) like to shit on them, and also claim that their only reason for existing is because people THEY DO NOT FIND ATTRACTIVE find them attractive.
AHHHHH.
EVERYONE DOES NOT ‘DO SO’. COME ON.
What? Have you SEEN ao3? Women* are ALL about ‘bromances’, my dude.
Also men should be allowed the full range of emotional expression, and not stuck in ‘boys don’t cry’ and ‘be a man’ territory. That’s toxic masculinity.
*This is based on the stereotype that women are the majority of the fic writers, I’m not sure if there have ever been studies about this. Also the stereotype that women really gravitate towards the slash stories.
@Eric
Wait, what? I’m assuming you meant between 2 cis women, which can’t get either one of them pregnant. I guess a cis woman could get pregnant from having sex with a trans* woman, but the study was probably about cis lesbians.
If you ignore female consent.
Given his comments so far, I think it’s pretty clear that Eric’s more than glad to….
@Rhuu
“their only reason for existing is because people THEY DO NOT FIND ATTRACTIVE find them attractive.”
Nope.
The study explains that their sexuality did make lesbians / bi women having more chances to reproduce, during a time lasting million years.
Having more chances to reproduce = / = why do you exist.
Fun fact: it’s the same even with the bonobos, just reversed.
Heterosexual female bonobos are unlikely to survive because the matriarch will probably reject them.
But that doesn’t mean that bi bonobos exist solely to please the matriarch.
What is ao3?
“Also men should be allowed the full range of emotional expression, and not stuck in ‘boys don’t cry’ and ‘be a man’ territory. That’s toxic masculinity.”
Unless they complain too much: apparently also complaining too much is toxic masculinity, isn’t it?
So a question arises: who establish when it’s too much?
@Naglfar
“If you ignore female consent.”
There was no such thing as laws against rape 10,000-100,000 years ago, indeed.
Plus all people had a really hard time to survive.
That’s what they’re talking about in the study: not the year 2020, they’re talking about the evolution in the remote past.
@eric
I just want to make it clear, I would choose any lesbian or bi woman over you any day of the week. I wouldn’t fuck you if my life depended on it and I’m guessing if a lot of women saw your behavior hear they would feel the same.
So, by your own “logic,” when you said earlier that:
you didn’t mean it literally, just figuratively.
…unless it’s convenient to your current “argument,” of course, in which case you did mean it literally.
Wow. Such a creative new way to argue. We’ve certainly never seen that tactic before…
[/s]
Why is it that most of the trolls who try so desperately hard to prove that they’re smart turn out to be some of the dumbest fuckers on the Interwebz?
@Eric –
Today I Learned that men’s current sexual desires can be extrapolated to tell us what they found attractive, and the PURPOSE OF LESBIANS, for the last million years.
I don’t think that’s how ANY of that works, but that’s just me.
are you honestly saying that us telling you that you’re full of shit, and that that study is full of shit, is toxic masculinity?
That question doesn’t *mean* anything, because you’re trying to make a link that doesn’t exist.
And ‘ao3’ (I really should have specified, I’m sorry, that’s my bad. I already knew your first language probably wasn’t english) is ‘archive of our own’, a fanfiction site.
ALL THE WARNINGS for going on it on a work computer. Be careful what tags you go into, some of that is very very NSFW (not safe for work). That’s why I’m not finding the link for you, right now.
(Some of it is both NSFW and great though! Or SFW and great!) Also not linking any of that, haha.
Not what was said. What was said was that YOUR reasoning, that ‘two women together will arouse a man and he will have sex with one of them and then they will be preggers, and that is why women would be interested in each other up to the exclusion of being interested in men at all.’ ignores consent.
If women are not interested in having sex with a man, why would they do it? If the man is so overcome he can’t help himself, where does that put what the woman wants?
What we’re saying is that your interpretation of the study is that ‘rape is what made humanity great’, and that it’s creepy AF.
You’ve put the date pretty far back there, older I think that any written laws we have (but feel free to correct me). Being an unwritten law does not stop it from being a law, though, so we probably did have rules against rape.
@Lainy
Thanks for the sexual advance, but I’m not in the mood now.
When I’ll be, I’ll make you know.
@Eric
So your whole theory consists of “lesbians exist so straight men can rape them and get them pregnant”? That’s frankly rather awful. I had a feeling this would become rape apologia, and this is as expected.
@Lainy
I agree, I’d much rather sleep with any woman who’s attracted to me than a misogynist.
@Eric
That wasn’t a sexual advance, that was a clear line of no, and no not even if you were the last living thing on earth, and no if I ever see you, and now your being a creep.
Am I the only one who is creeped out when its called “female consent” sounds like something on the damn animal planet, like “the raven denies the males courtship, he will have to work on his mating dance for next year”
@Lainy
Sorry if what I said was inadvertently creepy. I should have phrased that better.
@Rhuu
Or in gif form:
(Sorry to post again so soon but I’m really confused) @Eric, how do you read:
As something that you could reply “Not now, maybe later” to?
That entire paragraph could be summed up with two letters and some punctuation. I will do it for you. It’s:
Just the fact that you thought you might have a shot later is gross. I mean, not really, you were probably trying to be funny. But you aren’t funny. Read the room, we all think you’re gross. Not a good time to try to throw in some jokes.
Too late, he always was one.
@Lainy
Having sex or rejecting sex with some anonymous poster on the Internet isn’t in my mind, it’s in your.
So it was you thinking about the possibility to have sex with me, not me thinking about sex with you or someone else.
Friendly suggestion: don’t try to “blackmail” with “agree with me or I’m not going to have sex with you” people who doesn’t even remotely show sexual interest in you.
It makes you looking patheticly weak. Like an incel.