A top Iranian military leader — Qassim Soleimani,
commander of Iran’s elite Quds Force — has been killed in an airstrike on Baghdad ordered by Donald Trump. Soleimani was an incredibly popular and powerful political figure; this is a political assassination that will inspire violent retaliation and could very well lead us into a full-scale war with Iran.
Why would Trump do this? It’s not too hard to guess — during Obama’s term Trump repeatedly charged that Obama would launch an attack on Iran for political gain, and history suggests that Trump’s accusations are almost always projections.
Trump’s only explanation for the assassination so far? He tweeted a blurry clipart US flag.
I think it’s safe to say we’re all in deep shit now.
Open thread. No trolls.
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O/T, but Terry Gilliam just gave an interview and sounds even more reactionary than usual. He sounds rather like what Aimee Terese would sound like if she was slightly more coherent. Just slightly.
TW: racism, rape apologia, misogyny, transphobia
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/terry-gilliam-interview-harvey-weinstein-victims-metoo-race-a9269136.html
Another interesting take…
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-allies-response-trump-iran-qasem-soleimani-attack-alone-world-2020-1
Hope no one minds if I go OT since this is the most active open thread.
I just got back from the vet as Darrow (my boy kitty) has not been eating much for the past week. His bloodwork was not definitive, but because he had globulins, but no sign of infection, the vet thinks cancer is a possibility. So he’s going to need to get an ultrasound to check. This was an outcome I’ve been fearing. I’ve luckily never had a cat die of cancer, but everyone I know who has found out when their cat had sudden loss of appetite. And he’s lost a pound since his checkup just three weeks ago. So that’s bad too.
It’s just a good thing that I’m okay financially right now. I already spent $500 today and the ultrasound is going to be another $500.
So, everybody keep their fingers crossed/send good thoughts/send prayers please.
On the brighter side, we found a new apartment for my mom. It’s right on the busline I take too work and not far of a drive. Her condo is on the other side of town, so it’s been hard for us to take care of her. I just hope the condo sells fast.
@WWTH
Hoping for the best for your kitty. Is Darrow the one in your avatar image?
Trump is actually threatening a war crime:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1213593975732527112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
O/T, but does anyone haves ideas/resources for debating SWERFs? I’ve been trying to argue with an acquaintance regarding legalizing prostitution.
Naglfar,
No. That’s my girl kitty Dracarys.
This is Darrow
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFKShjUWkAESGZD?format=jpg&name=small
I’m ASSuming the 52 Americans Trump’s referring to are the ones taken hostage back during the Carter Administration. Do the survivors of those 52 want that proposed attack done in their names? If not, Trump needs to stop using them like that. (Wishful thinking, but if the victims see no need to avenge their captivity 40 years later, then the matter should be closed.)
@Redsilkphoenix
Conservatives have long used unsuspecting people as martyrs without their consent. This isn’t the first or the last time they do it.
@ WWTH
Both your kitties are gorgeous. Sending all my best wished to Darrow.
As a Brit I can assure you that Trump’s claim that Iran carried out terrorist attacks in London is not true, there have been no Iranian terror attacks anywhere in Britain. I suspect that nobody will be surprised to hear that Trump was lying. As for the future of the US/Iran conflict, one bomb on a Saudi oil refinery and the price of oil will double, treble, or who knows what. And people will die, as Iran will want blood. Let’s hope it’s as few as possible.
To WWTH, I know we’ve had our differences, (an example of the talent we English have for understatement!) but I do hope your kitten is okay. Some neighbours of mine had to have their cat, named Bagpuss, put down as he’d a terminal illness and was incapable of movement, even standing, and worse still he was just 4 years old. They were heartbroken, and I was saddened, as he was a lovely cat, who was friends with everyone.
@tim gueguen:
Yes, but Trump is in favour of American war crimes: look at Eddie Gallagher, for example. And his base will lap it up.
As for the reference to the Iranian hostage crisis: that was forty years ago! So I guess he’s aiming for the boomer vote.
@naglfar:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/07/why-sex-work-should-be-decriminalized
https://law.yale.edu/ghjp/projects/gender-sexuality-and-rights/protecting-health-and-rights-sex-workers-us-and-globally
A key finding of one of the two Yale studies on which that second link’s article is based is this:
While there is a wide range of reasons to address sex work differently, many supposedly sympathetic voices will insist that we can do better by women injured in the sex industry while still maintaining laws banning prostitution and using prosecution under those laws as a lever to wrench women* free from the abusive industry currently gripping them.
The Yale study is particularly salient in addressing these “sympathetic” objections: In practice, PDPs have been unable to fulfill their promises. While in theory we might be able to maintain criminalization as a useful tool, since no one who has tried has actually pulled it off, while outcomes have improved in regions that have passed decriminalization, the strong bias should be toward decrim unless and until some region unwilling (and politically unable) to decriminalize prostitution proves to the world that criminalizing prostitution while treating prostitutes better than felonious threats to law and order and “good society” is possible.
I’m not holding my breath.
@Crip Dyke
Thanks for the links and additional information. I’ll try to work those into the next argument I have about the topic.
@Naglfar:
You might also ask people why they care about criminalizing sex work, what motivates them to consider sex work a crime?
The answer to that can help you define your response. If they say that they care because women are harmed, then demonstrating that other strategies inflict less harm is going to be persuasive.
But if they say something else, like “sex work is inherently degrading” then arguments about harm (like the Yale study) aren’t going to have any effect at all. Then, if you want to argue the point at all, you’ll have to argue on other grounds if you want to change minds.
@Crip Dyke
They generally seem to go for the latter one of those, claiming that it’s inherently misogynistic. I tried to point out that there are many jobs that could be seen as “degrading” that are legal.
I’ve also tried to get them to elaborate on why the presence of sex makes something degrading, and what that says about societal attitudes about sex, but they didn’t go down that path.
On some level I know that I’ll probably never change their mind, but I also feel like if I give up trying I’m letting them win and there are actual people at stake.
@Naglfar:
Nope. If they didn’t convince you, then nobody “won”. And the winning, here, is at the level of public policy. If decriminalization happens, it’s not going to be with 100% of the voting public agreeing. Go out and change some other minds and you can still “win”.
The conversation you’re describing isn’t a loss. It’s merely scouting the territory as you seek battles you can win.
If you do want to continue those conversations, however…
So what you propose is only legalizing prostitution conducted by men. Then it’s not misogynistic. If they object, you can then reply:
Of course, if they don’t object, then that’s consistent with wanting to ban prostitution on the basis of misogyny and you can just walk away. Wanting to fight misogyny is certainly a good motivation, and if they define the fight against misogyny deontically without reference to consequences, there’s little you can do.
@Crip Dyke
Good point. It would probably be more productive to spend my time and energy elsewhere, so I should do that.
I’ll use that one in the future if I end up in similar arguments with other people.
Thank you for your guidance, as always.
Mostly I just argue from personal experience – personally I enjoyed being a sex worker, and quit mostly because it’s illegal. I get arguments in return about moral corruption / societal decay, which I don’t particularly believe in. Or the existence of people who enjoy it creating the possibility of people who don’t enjoy it being forced into it, which doesn’t particularly make sense. It’s never changed anyone’s mind as far as I know, anyway.
@Snowberry
To me any argument about societal decay is a huge red flag. Fascists and other conservative types obsess over societal decline because it allows them to allege conspiracies and blame other people for their problems. When I hear someone bring up societal decline, I generally start to think that that person will not be convinced by logical arguments and probably isn’t worth my time.
…I worded part of that poorly. What I meant to say is that if people who like doing things that most people don’t like are allowed to do those things, then it leaves open the possibility of people who don’t like those things being forced into it. Applying that to the general case would result in an extremely restrictive society, which is why it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
Prostitution was legal in the USA and its predecessor colonies when the prostitute was a slave. So, by this argument, we morally and spiritually decayed from 1700 to Dec 18th, 1865 when we finally put an end to slavery.
So, I’m curious – in what ways did the morals and society of North Americans decay between 1700 and 1865?
@Crip Dyke
Prostitution wasn’t made illegal on any significant scale in the US until the early 20th century.
@Crip Dyke:
Because freeing people at gunpoint always works and ends well. </s> See also: drug addicts and the entire populations of Afghanistan and Iraq.