By David Futrelle
So I thought I would take a look at the Men’s Rights subreddit today, and as usual I learned a lot.
I learned …
... that feminists fighting for women’s rights “on the basis of equality” are against equality.
… that men are oppressed by women wearing leggings to work.
… that men are unfairly being denied credit for inventing high-heel shoes.
… that men who even suggest that “there might be a gynocentrism going on” are unfairly mocked.
… that male feminists are all incels in the making.
… that if you got a disposable Gillette razor for Christmas (!?) you should return it to the store because MISANDRY.
… that Men’s Rights Redditors will happily give more than 180 upvotes to dudes who post incoherent walls of text accusing feminists of, among other things, removing “gentiles” from Greek statues.
Dude, setting aside the whole genitals/gentiles problem here and the fact that what you’re saying about Greek statues isn’t, you know, true, I think you might have a little bit of a statue fetish.
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Hi! I’m an AMAB feminist in a happy relationship with an AFAB partner. My feminist practises of not being a complete turducken of a person and seeing my partner as a human being with their own interests that partly but not fully overlap with my own definitely helped out in that regard.
As far as I can tell, both male and female (and other) people in my life (including my partner) don’t sneer at me with derision for having feminist beliefs. I work with a lot of different people on a daily basis and they tend to appreciate being seen as persons.
I get the impression that if one were to swing from self-identified male feminist to incel… Well… One’s self-identification was misinformed at best and more likely insincere and/or opportunistic. And since these types seem to believe any self-identification as a male feminist is insincere opportunism… Well, I’m questioning the posters anecdotal sources.
Anyway, I hope everyone had okay holidays/wednes/thursdays. Have fun with the new years celebration if you are so inclined. I know I’ll spend it playing D&D with my partner and two of my closest friends (also AMAB feminists I might add).
PYGMALION?!
I’ve never heard of a feminist trying to alter a statue. I do remember when right wing Christian Attorney General John Ashcroft did it though.
Also, lots of feminists have pointed out that high heeled shoes were invented by and for men. Because we like to point out that there’s no reason men shouldn’t wear heels if they want and there’s no reason to expect women to wear them if they don’t want to. Because high heels are not inherently gendered female. So go ahead dudes, take credit for high heels. But when you do, point out that it’s because men wore them.
For a group that doesn’t exist anymore, the Boy Scouts sure have a fancy website.
“Wow, one little hint that I think women are too uppity and suddenly I get labelled a woman hater! Me! Can you believe it? Hate women?? Anyways I’m thinking I should try to avoid all women forever.”
@Battering Lamb
TBH I suspect most “male feminists” who become incels/MRAs/etc. were there for the cookies and social clout to start with. Or just incredibly self-centered assholes. Guys like Louis CK etc.
i know for a fact that there are two guys only high schools in my area, i went to the girl only one and we paired up for our plays to get cast members, do these guys not know how to google lmao
I’ve seen naked(ish) statues get clothes put on them, but that was seldom because of fear of nudity. Normally it’s because it’s winter outside and passerbys feel the need to put warm clothes on them (usually hats and scarves, given shirts and pants are almost impossible to get on one). Or if said statue is in a college town, it will wear the team jersey during playoff time as a gesture of support. Prudery usually has little to do with covering statues, I’ve noticed. At least where I’m at; other places may differ on that point.
Weird, I’ve seen feminist complaints that a lot of the “classical” female statues and paintings are too de-sexed, but never the reverse. Straw feminism strikes again, I guess.
Truly, this is the line of the century. I’m picturing this guy visiting museum after museum, approaching the statues excitedly, only to turn away, consumed with disappointment, yet again. He takes out a little notebook, crosses off an item in a list, then leaves.
@Battering Lamb
I just got home from going out to dinner with friends to celebrate the holidays, eating way too much, then going to the musical instrument shop and jamming on various instruments until they closed. A pretty good night.
@WWTH
IIRC high heels were invented for horseback riding.
And a lot of men can look good in high heels. Look no further than the glam rockers of the 1970s (David Bowie comes to mind).
@Snowberry
The irony of their straw feminists is that MRAs would probably get on well with TERFs, who sound like straw feminists more than any actual, non-transphobic feminists I know.
I can’t even count how many women I know who have reported finding Bowie attractive. I wish more men would accept that we don’t all want “alpha” males.
I think my earlier post got eaten or moderated (my bad, as I mucked up my nym). But I was imagining the museum guy wandering through the museums of the world, getting sad at all the “nude Greek woman statues” because the feminists got there before he did.
@wwth – Bowie was absolutely gorgeous. I’ve always loved that kind of look on guys – or girls for that matter.
@WWTH
Count me in as finding Bowie much more attractive than some “alpha” PUA chud.
The whole alpha-beta male thing is rooted in so many layers of wrong I’m not even sure where to start. Wolves don’t actually have an alpha-beta structure, the scientist who originally proposed it retracted his findings and apologized, but it was too late. Even if wolves did have alpha-beta hierarchies, that wouldn’t mean that humans would as well, and there’s 0 evidence for such a structure in humans.
Plus, if women were only attracted to one type of man, there would be extreme sexual selection towards that type and we wouldn’t have any other phenotypes. The fact that other types of men exist is proof that not all women have attraction to one type.
I’m pretty sure almost all the Greek statues are of gentiles. Certainly the male ones are.
I’ve always wished I could do the Annie Lennox/Tilda Swinton androgynous type look. But I’m too voluptuous to pull it off. Grass is always greener I guess. I was a late bloomer and when I was still in a training bra in 9th grade I was dying to have big boobs.
I mean, I’m pretty sure most feminists (the intersectional ones at very least) support the removal of Confederate civil war statues, does that count?
Good point. I amend it to say that I’ve never heard of feminist trying to alter a statue for nudity censoring purposes.
Fuck Confederate statues though.
Regarding Bowie, I am of the same generation as any number of people who experienced their first sexual awakening watching Labyrinth and being mesmerized by “The Area” of Bowie’s costumes. The fact that it had to be pointed out to me was a pretty good sign that I am very straight.
There was a Jim Henson exhibit in my city a few months ago, and it included Jareth and Sarah’s masquerade ball costumes. Some dedicated soul had strategically padded the Jareth mannequin to ensure that it was Bowie-accurate.
(My 80s fantasy movie childhood sexual awakening was Joanne Whalley in Willow. It probably explains why my reaction to a woman in a bikini is “she has a lovely figure” while my reaction to a woman wearing armor and brandishing a sword is “be my bride.”)
Androgyny doesn’t have to be waifish! Someone with a voluptuous figure can look just as marvellous in the right suit.
Word
I should specify that I just mean how I view myself and am not judging how people of any body type want to do androgyny! I’m just ridiculously hard on myself and have body image issues, so while I don’t like how I look in anything, I can sort of accept myself in a knit top with a skirt and that’s about my only comfort zone.
Highly likely the MRA who claims to have encountered ex-feminist incels has actually encountered ex-Nice Guy incels.
Classic Nice Guys are these proto-incels who feel they treat women relatively respectfully and aren’t rightfully sexually rewarded for that. When/if these Nice Guys join actual incel communities, it’d perfectly fit the ethos to brag about “not being a nice guy any more”.
The gynocracy of femail teechers is oppressing me by making me lern tu spel korektly!
(Normally not a spelling or grammar nazi, but for him I’ll make an exception.)
Expo 1986 in Vancouver was run by a right-wing Christian businessman. He made them put a bra on the figurehead of the tall ship shown, and made one of the national pavilions cover up a photograph of a beach scene that had a topless woman in the background, much to their bemusement.
If there ever is a cover-up of the countless nude women in painting and sculpture, it’s always done by religious figures screaming about the moral depravity.
Re: heels
It’s often noted that the use of heels originated as men’s fashion. This seems slightly different from “crediting” men for the “invention” of heels, like it’s some important technological breakthrough.
You can avoid all women.
Yes, avoid all women.
Yes, avoiding all women is really the only option.