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Who Goes Red Pill? A sequel to Dorothy Thompson’s Nazi-guessing parlor game

Take the fucking blue pill

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By David Futrelle

In 1941, writer Dorothy Thompson invented what she described as “an interesting and somewhat macabre parlor game” called “Who Goes Nazi?” The idea was simple: the next time you’re at a party, or some other social gathering, take a look at those around you and try to guess which ones would, “in a showdown … go Nazi.”

You don’t do this out loud, of course, unless you really want to be punched.

The game feels as relevant at this point in history as it was when Thompson wrote her classic Harper’s essay explaining the rules of the game and offering a series of descriptions of the assorted social types she thought would (or most definitely would not) turn into literal Nazis when the chips were down — from the bank vice president who “has risen beyond his real abilities by virtue of health, good looks, and being a good mixer” (definitely a Nazi in embryo) to the downwardly mobile editor who manages to be intellectual without being a snob about it, about whom Thompson remarks that she “will put my hand in the fire that nothing on earth could ever make him a Nazi.”

Thompson’s portraits of these assorted social types, and her theories about who would and wouldn’t go Nazi, are a little too pat for my tastes; she basically thinks that nice people are immune to Nazism while mean and bitter types are drawn to it like moths to a lamp.

“Kind, good, happy, gentlemanly, secure people never go Nazi,” she wrote.

They may be the gentle philosopher whose name is in the Blue Book, or Bill from City College to whom democracy gave a chance to design airplanes—you’ll never make Nazis out of them. But the frustrated and humiliated intellectual, the rich and scared speculator, the spoiled son, the labor tyrant, the fellow who has achieved success by smelling out the wind of success—they would all go Nazi in a crisis.

Not far from the truth, I think, just a little oversimplified.

Still, the game itself is genius.

Over the last couple of years, for obvious reasons, Thompson’s article has been resurrected and passed around on social media, and several writers have proposed modern updates of her famous game, from the “office edition” to one focused on media figures. The only trouble with playing the game now is that so many of those who would have gone gone Nazi in Thompson’s day already have, in ours.

While the original game is still worth playing, let me propose an alternate version that might be even more entertaining for readers of this blog: Who Goes Red Pill?

Think of the various people you’ve recently met — in real life or online — and try to figure out who among them is most likely to embrace the toxic misogynistic ideology that unites the otherwise disparate groups that make up the manosphere, from MRAs to MGTOWS to incels to PUAs. What personality traits do they exhibit? What behaviors are obvious (or not-so-obvious) tells?

Are they NiceGuys (TM) stewing in aggrieved entitlement? Do they like South Park maybe a little bit too much? Do they get suspiciously angry about female superheroes? Are they fans of Pewdiepie, or Joe Rogan, or Jordan Peterson? Do they complain that women are sexually harassing them by wearing yoga pants? Do they know more than Chris Hansen does about age-of-consent laws? Do they describe themselves as “equity feminists” or “egalitarians?”

The game is a little trickier than it might at first appear. Some of these Jordan-Peterson-loving NiceGuys have already swallowed the Red Pill (and sometimes have even embraced the even more nilhilistic Black Pill), thus disqualifying them as candidates for the game.

Others may exhibit several seemingly obvious tells — but their flirtation with the Red Pill may end up being little more than a passing phase. I’m not sure I quite understand just what makes one person a Red-Pill-swallower and another a Red-Pill-spitter-outer. But maybe you do.

Share your own thoughts below as to what personality types you think are most drawn to the Red Pill (or to Nazism, if you’d prefer to play the original version). Let the games begin!

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Anonymous
Anonymous
11 months ago

@WWTH

What’s going on at the Good Men Project? Have their standards begun slipping lately, or were they infiltrated somehow?

Zatar
Zatar
11 months ago

Now having slightly more time then I did this morning I would also like to apologize more thoroughly for my (Incredibly badly timed even in comparison to the other posts) screed about my possibility of being Red Pilled. I didn’t put any thought into how it would effect the other people in the community or how threatening it could come off as. It was selfish and insensitive of me and definitely reinforces areas that I need to work on.

kupo
kupo
11 months ago

@Definitely not Steve
Could you please stop? I’m explaining that the question you answered was both upsetting and not the one asked, why do you feel the need to argue about it?

Leum
Leum
11 months ago

A safe, non-toxic, non-misogynistic place for men to talk about things we do that affect women would be nice. There are a lot of things that a lot of guys need to work out and be guided towards that really aren’t women’s job to educate them about. But I also know from experience that what WWTH (I think) said is right, progressive spaces that aren’t for women invariably drift into misogyny, and I’m not sure what can be done about it (a similar problem exists with race, LGBT stuff, etc now I think on it)..

Anonymous
Anonymous
11 months ago

@Leum

“Invariably” is a strong word. I’m not sure if it’s really the case that any progressive space not for women is simply doomed, that seems almost fatalistic.

I’m sure there has to be some underlying factor that causes it to happen, and if so then it can be controlled for. Having such a space be gender neutral (i.e. for both men and women) in nature sounds like it would work, but if that was the case I’d expect somewhere like that to exist already. Similarly, I wonder if having all the information they need in an accessible and easy-to understand format would work but then I recall that some of them don’t even want to put in that much effort. Anyone think they might know what it is I might be missing here? There has to be something pushing that decline risk.

I would consider starting one but I know from experience that I’m horrible with managing those kinds of large scale projects.

(I still don’t know what happened to Good Men Project, by the way- I’m slightly afraid to look at them this point though I can’t really explain why. Perhaps it’s because seeing whatever they are now would tarnish my memories of what they once did?)

Definitely not Steve
Definitely not Steve
11 months ago

@kupo,

Message thoroughly received. I did not mean to annoy or upset you and I apologize that I appear to have.

Dreidl
Dreidl
11 months ago

AlanRobertshaw:
“ I hope at some stage you get to use your bullwhip to cross a chasm, Indian Jones style!”

David Morgan, who made all the Australian-style whips for the Indiana Jones franchise, put steel wire cables inside 20+‘ braided leather covers for the swinging scenes. The cable-filled whips couldn’t be cracked, although they could be thrown like a coil of stiff rope. The whips actually cracked were 8-12’ long.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
11 months ago

I find that asking myself the question of who would go Nazi or Red Pill helpful in formulating my thoughts — but only partially helpful. I’m guessing that most people wouldn’t go self-identified Nazi or Red Pill unless they were both (1) already hateful people, and (2) looking for like-minded individuals. (Yuck.) Alternatively, they might be living under a dictatorship that demands either allegiance or death.

In my experience, people can hold a variety of attitudes, some of them mutually exclusive. But hey, we’re humans with big brains, so I guess there’s room for lots of stuff, some of it hateful, some of it life-affirming.

I have to apologize to Walt Whitman — who seems to have to loved everybody (Sorry, Walt!) — before I quote his immortal lines for my own purposes:

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

Years ago I used to worry about whichever guy I happened to be dating becoming aware of sexist ideas that he was previously unfamiliar with. I was afraid that if he knew about them, he might adopt those philosophies for himself. But once I thought it through, I realized that this was ridiculous: a strong sense of right and wrong will keep a person from doing that kind of thing.

I came to understand my own realization better when I began my relationship with my boyfriend. He’s got a strong conscience. He uses it. What a relief.

MakeTrumpAWateringCanForTheTreeOfLiberty
MakeTrumpAWateringCanForTheTreeOfLiberty
11 months ago

You’re definitely right about Thompson oversimplifying things, but you can’t really blame her since people in those days didn’t know as much as we do now about human neurobiology. The sad fact is that our capacity for xenophobia is directly proportional to our capacity to love our families and anyone else we consider a member of our “tribe”. While Nazism is often simply and excuse to engage in wanton cruelty it can also be the result of an otherwise laudable desire to protect loved ones. To be truly immune to bigotry a person needs a certain degree of emotional distance.

By the same token, not everyone who hates bigotry is necessarily a truly decent person. Many, if not most, are just greedy capitalists who want a bigger market to exploit and hate the idea of people having attachments to things other than money and possessions. Many are just sociopaths who see no reason to make distinctions between races because to them everyone is an object (but I repeat myself).

The only way to truly be a good person is through self-discipline. To recognize when the way you feel towards others is simply the result of an animalistic instinct and reign it in. To reject ways of thinking and living that take one further from harmony and to direct one’s hatred only toward obstacles to harmony.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
11 months ago

Years ago I used to worry about whichever guy I happened to be dating becoming aware of sexist ideas that he was previously unfamiliar with. I was afraid that if he knew about them, he might adopt those philosophies for himself. But once I thought it through, I realized that this was ridiculous: a strong sense of right and wrong will keep a person from doing that kind of thing.

I came to understand my own realization better when I began my relationship with my boyfriend. He’s got a strong conscience. He uses it. What a relief.

Thanks for this. I’ve been dating and drawing close to a man who has claimed that Maps to Meaning was one of the most impactful books for him, and while he has denied being a Jordan Peterson fan he claims to be interested in JP’s “academic instead of mainstream” material. He’s unironically listened to Ben Shapiro on occasion too, and thinks that Rick and Morty is “the best animated show ever made” (though he would never go as far as a Pickle Rick tattoo or claim it’s for “high IQ people.”)

I can probably hear the alarm bells going off in the head of anyone reading this, and it did in mine too! Hell I’m still a bit concerned. But the more I talk to and learn about him the more I think that he’s unlikely to dive into red pill/misogynist thinking because he’s conscientious of the suffering of others, definitely has a sense of right and wrong, is willing to listen and consider alternative opinions to his and actually think things through, but most importantly he’s very perceptive of others and himself. A trait that is utterly utterly lacking in the Red Pill – if they had an ounce of self awareness they wouldn’t be Red Pill at all.

This man has got conservative undertones, from what I can tell, but I believe that he’s got a good enough heart to avoid falling for the majority of it. We’ll see. For now I’m going to roll with this budding relationship.

ETA: He’s also got a really fucking dodgy friend who has definitely drunk the manosphere Kool Aid, but none of his influence has rubbed off on my date so far. So my fella has already been exposed to misogynistic nonsense, but has assured me he completely disagrees with his friend on that stuff.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
11 months ago

@sunnysombrera

You’re welcome.

One of the best pieces of advice I’ve gotten about relationships was, find someone you resonate with.

Best wishes.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
11 months ago

OT with apologies, but is this concrete evidence of yer actual prehistoric, mammoth-hunting-era woman-perpetrated consumption of bonbons?????????????????? As reported by PZ over at Pharyngula:

https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2019/12/18/chew-more-gum-for-posterity/

Allandrel
Allandrel
11 months ago

@sunnysombrera

and thinks that Rick and Morty is “the best animated show ever made” (though he would never go as far as a Pickle Rick tattoo or claim it’s for “high IQ people.”)

Rick & Morty fanboys are some of the worst, especially the “you need a high IQ to understand it” types, and especially given their tendency to respond to “Oh, so it’s better than The Venture Bros.?” with “The what now?”

The Venture Bros. is basically the show that set the stage for Rick & Morty while being better in every way, actually rewards being knowledgable,* and oh yes, isn’t completely nihilistic.

*VB does not “require a high IQ” to understand, but neither does Rick & Morty. It does reward people with a broad knowledge base of many different subjects, but you don’t need one to follow the story. Not that Rick & Morty requires “a solid understanding of quantum physics to understand” as the fanboys claim – a thirty-second layperson’s explanation of the Many Worlds Hypothesis is more than enough.

Lord, give me the confidence of a mediocre white man.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
11 months ago

@ opposable thumbs

Yeah; that’s a great story. One thing for the author…

I don’t see any evidence in the paper to characterize her age

They’ve found previous examples of Neolithic chewing gum; and the toothmarks have always been child sized. So the belief is that it was a juvenile activity.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Allandrel

Rick & Morty fanboys are some of the worst, especially the “you need a high IQ to understand it” types, and especially given their tendency to respond to “Oh, so it’s better than The Venture Bros.?” with “The what now?”

They remind me very much of fans of the band Tool. For both fans of the band and fans of the show all think they’re smarter than everyone else because they listen to certain music or watch a certain show, and when people express any sort of criticism of either, the fans respond by saying that “you’re not smart enough to get it.”

Not that Rick & Morty requires “a solid understanding of quantum physics to understand” as the fanboys claim

I doubt most of the fans have any real understanding. This could lead to some demonstrations of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I haven’t actually watched any entire episodes of Rick & Morty, only clips, but what I saw was not really entertaining enough to warrant watching more.

IronCthulhu
IronCthulhu
11 months ago

Men experiencing sexual and romantic frustration. Also, men who’ve had certain nasty experiences with women, the kinds of experiences that MGTOWs and MRAs are always talking about: divorce rape, a cheating wife, a sexless marriage.

A “Red-Pill-spitter-outer” would probably be someone who finds a solution to their immediate problems before they come into contact with redpill ideology.

Katamount
11 months ago

RE: Quantum physics

I was introduced to the concepts in fourth year engineering and I barely understand it. Hell, the specialists barely understand it.

@ Anonymous, Naglfar

It was actually my RPG playing that got me into writing smutty fiction, coming up with backstories for my Diablo II characters. From there, I created my own original characters, most of whom are in open relationships. I haven’t really published any of them, but I’m astonished at just how much I’ve written. My problem is that I get the framing set up and get kinda bogged down in the mechanics of who’s putting what organ where, particularly in group scenes, then kinda get bored and write something else. It’s left quite a few half-finished stories that have the beats in place, but just need to be elaborated on. That’s what I’m working on now, particularly with a longer multi-part epic where my kinda more straight-laced characters go on a vacation road trip through my universe’s equivalent of Nova Scotia and boink their way across the province.

That’s my New Year’s Resolution: fill in the missing parts of my longer stories (along with start colouring some of my older drawings). Then comes the editing. I hope to eventually illustrate some of these stories too, but that would be a “later” thing.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
11 months ago

@ dreidl

Sorry; didn’t see your earlier response; my apologies! But thank you for that info; that’s really interesting. I wonder if a regular whip could support the strain. I would love to try something like that; like the chasm swing in Star Wars. I’m not sure how hard it is to wrap a whip/line around a suitable anchor; but I do have a knack for snagging belt loops on door handles; so I’m sure it’s a transferable skill.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Katamount

Hell, the specialists barely understand it.

*gasp* so an animated television show doesn’t make you the smartest person in the world just by watching? Devastated. /s

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
11 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw,

The TV show Mythbusters did a Star Wars episode where they tested out three scenes from the original trilogy: Luke and Leia’s swing across the chasm, Han stuffing Luke in a tauntaun carcass to keep him alive for a few hours in subzero temperatures, and the Ewok’s swinging log attack. Don’t know if the full episode is up online anyplace, but the results were published here:

https://mythresults.com/star-wars-special

Interesting stuff, what they found out recreating those scenes.

Dalillama
Dalillama
11 months ago

@Alan
A braided rawhide bullwhip can definitely support someone’s weight. The hard bit is wrapping it around the bar firmly enough that it won’t unwrap when your weight comes onto it. A weight at the tip (like your belt buckle) would help with that part, while making the whip completely useless for anything else.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
11 months ago

I wonder if a regular whip could support the strain. I would love to try something like that; like the chasm swing in Star Wars. I’m not sure how hard it is to wrap a whip/line around a suitable anchor; but I do have a knack for snagging belt loops on door handles; so I’m sure it’s a transferable skill.

I’ve been writing a lengthy fanfic adventure story that involves a scene of Indiana Jones hanging by his whip for several minutes on a levitating magical object. If this isn’t a realistic prospect, I’ll be damned.

(Eventually the whip breaks, though not from the strain alone but from catching fire, and Indiana goes splash into a lake.)

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
11 months ago

OT with apologies, but is this concrete evidence of yer actual prehistoric, mammoth-hunting-era woman-perpetrated consumption of bonbons?????????????????? As reported by PZ over at Pharyngula:

I still can’t post links here, but if you check this story on the Guardian’s science news, there’s a cool artist’s portrait of the girl. The artist is Tom Björklund; I gushed about his mammoth hunters in a recent thread.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
11 months ago

I think what Dalillama says about the hard part being to wrap enough to hold in the first place is true but then too you would have to hit whatever bar you are going to swing from with either half way or two thirds down the thong. At least that what you do like when you do a sidearm flick to wrap a person. I’ve seen mostly cutting tricks at whip arts events but wrapping tricks are so amazing too. But I only know a little (and haven’t practiced much with wraps but want to more) but the popper and fall go way past the person or thing you are trying to wrap. I don’t know how it works if you are wrapping something small and above you like a bar rather than like a person standing in front of you. But still if it works the same you would need a lot of room over the bar you’re trying to wrap.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
11 months ago

@ redsilkphoenix & dali

Thanks for that info; I like that it’s plausible. I’ll have to track down a bullwhip. Obviously not a leather one. (I don’t know if I’ve ever mentioned it; but I’m vegan.)

I did once manage to snag a guitar neck with a chain. That was actually an accident. Looked cool though and luckily have a still of it.

comment image

francis
francis
11 months ago

@ sunny somberea

my lovely fella who I have been with 9 years had terrible misogynistic friends when I met him and he was ok with it as long as he didn’t see the impact of it.

but when I stood up for a friend who had been raped and his friends all turned on me he shunned them and is now more woke.

(I like to think he would have acted this way if anyone had been bullled but im not sure)

sorry if this is unhelpful or derailing

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
11 months ago

While Nazism is often simply and excuse to engage in wanton cruelty it can also be the result of an otherwise laudable desire to protect loved ones. To be truly immune to bigotry a person needs a certain degree of emotional distance.

What the utter fuck did I just read?

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Jesalin

What the utter fuck did I just read?

I didn’t see that comment before, it must have just gotten through the filter.
*reads it*

Holy shit.
Not sure myself what that is, but my money’s on “skidmarxist” based on their anti capitalist thing and simultaneous claim that wokeness is greedy.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
11 months ago

The name appears to be a thinly-veiled call for Trump’s assassination. Does that not violate the comment policy, even if the target is Trump?

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
11 months ago

The only way to truly be a good person is through self-discipline. To recognize when the way you feel towards others is simply the result of an animalistic instinct and reign it in. To reject ways of thinking and living that take one further from harmony and to direct one’s hatred only toward obstacles to harmony.

I’m gonna go with no.

“The only way to truly be a good person is through self-discipline.”
Bullshit.

” To recognize when the way you feel towards others is simply the result of an animalistic instinct and reign it in.”
And evo-psych bullshit.

Amtep
Amtep
11 months ago

@Katamount

My experience with writing short fiction is that when you get stuck in details you can just skip over them and set the next scene. Readers are good at filling in the blanks 🙂 They don’t have to be told how everyone got there.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Surplus

Does that not violate the comment policy, even if the target is Trump?

I believe it does. Kind of surprised David let this one through, seeing as it very clearly seems to be sympathizing with Nazis and calling for assassination.

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
11 months ago

@Leum, Definitely Not Steve:

Thanks also for your apologies and introspection.

@IronCthulu:

Go fuck yourself.

Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner
11 months ago

@WWTH: I completely understand exhaustion! That’s part of why I flew off the handle there… *giggle

kupo
kupo
11 months ago

@Naglfar
He’s owned by cats, so he knows sometimes it’s necessary to give toys to bat around.

Viscaria
Viscaria
11 months ago

While Nazism is often simply and excuse to engage in wanton cruelty it can also be the result of an otherwise laudable desire to protect loved ones.

Pull the other one.

@IronCthulhu

Could you define “divorce rape,” please, if you’re going to use the term. What is the thing that women do to men during divorce that is analagous to rape?

I mean, I assume it’s always women doing it to men. I’ve never once heard someone complain about a man “divorce raping” a woman or about a same-gender spouse doing the same. Is “divorce rape” possible by men or by people not in m/f marriages?

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@Viscaria
It’s also notable that MRAs constantly complain about “false” rape accusations, but never bring up false divorce rape accusations. If divorce rape was a thing*, and if they viewed it the same twisted and incorrect way they view rape, they’d be very worried about false divorce rape accusations.

*It isn’t a thing. Sure, divorces can be messy and awful, but even a messy divorce is not the same as rape.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
11 months ago

@ IronCthulhu:

Men experiencing sexual and romantic frustration. Also, men who’ve had certain nasty experiences with women, the kinds of experiences that MGTOWs and MRAs are always talking about: divorce rape, a cheating wife, a sexless marriage.

This type of trauma is resultant from a LACK OF HAVING EXPECTATIONS MET. If someone embraces igno-right-wing ideology because of these events, that person was already practicing MRA/MGTOW lifestyle.

@ Viscaria:

“divorce rape” occurs when a privileged person does not get what they want in a divorce proceeding… usually “punishment” for their spouse

gum-chewing girl
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/dec/17/neolithic-dna-ancient-chewing-gum-denmark

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
11 months ago
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
11 months ago

@ Naglfar:

If divorce rape was a thing*, and if they viewed it the same twisted and incorrect way they view rape, they’d be very worried about false divorce rape accusations.

not! A “divorce rape” accusation would, in most cases, be leveled by a privileged man against a woman. While “false” COULD mean “aggravated lying”, the NORMAL usage indicates “incorrect”…

… (wait for it…)

and we ALL know MRA/MGTOW can NEVER be “incorrect”….

Paireon
Paireon
11 months ago

Personally, despite having much in common with stereotypical incels/miggies, I don’t think I ever really was in danger of actually going redpill. Probably stems from (among other things) the fact that I’m a very cartesian, analytical guy, to the point that it’s through a lens of rationality that I actually managed to come to terms with empathy. I’m now better at it than the vast majority of neurotypical people, and have been for almost two decades at least (yeah I’m kinda bragging, but when you have self-esteem as low as I have that’s actually a good thing, and in any case it’s still true). Long story short, everytime I’d read/hear macho/sexist/misogynist stuff, my brain would auto-analyse it from a bunch of perspectives and pretty always figured it to be dumb bullshit. So in some ways my weirdo autistic mind was actually a boon.

(Oh, and yes, I’m on the spectrum. Non-specific autism spectrum disorder, formerly known as Asperger’s syndrome)

Paireon
Paireon
11 months ago

Oh, and I will also confess a fondness for Rick and Morty. I will also confess that a very large subset of its fandom is really fucking embarrassing (something that the showrunners also seem to think, and have aknowledged in the fourth season)

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
11 months ago

@IronCthulhu

Men experiencing sexual and romantic frustration.

NOT MY DAMN PROBLEM and no fucking excuse for your bullshit you asshole and no excuse for any pill bullshit.

Keep your damn frustration to yourself and don’t expect any woman to do anything about it.

You are probably the type that would leer at me and complain just because I’m not interested like I don’t have a right to be or not be.

And yeah I only have time for hot handsome guys who make my pussy wet. And yeah it’s not leering if I think he’s hot. Deal with it and shut the fuck up.

If you don’t like that then maybe one day you will see women as humans with our own desires.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
11 months ago

@Paireon

You never answered my question in the Bhudda thread about what you meant by “stereotypical incel traits”

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
11 months ago

@ StacySmarty:

Concise n to the point! I like that!

There seem to be commenters hovering around the “who HAS to go red pill”…

Like there’s those who DO, n those who DONT, and those who HAVE NO CHOICE!

Everyone has choices. Even when forced by political and other powers to conform ones actions, one always has a choice what to believe.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
11 months ago

I’ve seen some of Rick and Morty, and yes, it appears that a disturbingly large chunk of the fandom is stuck in ‘whoa, cool’ mode as opposed to realizing that yeah, that entire family is really messed up. (See, for example, one episode where Rick casually tells his daughter that if she’d ever seriously been a danger with some of her own inventing while young, he’d probably have killed her and created a copy that wouldn’t have been able to do that. And then refused to answer as to whether or not he already had. This after she had discovered that years ago she’d stranded a childhood friend of hers in a magical kingdom created while she was young.)

Granted, the end of the ‘Pickle Rick’ episode where the psychiatrist calls Rick out on a lot of his shenanigans was well worth it.

@Paireon:
I always liked Douglas Hofstadter’s analysis of the Prisoner’s Dilemma, where he posited a difference between ‘rationality’ and what he called ‘super-rationality’.

– ‘Rationality’ is ‘no matter what the other person does, I’m better off if I defect (screw them over), so I’m going to do that’.

– ‘Super-rationality’ is ‘the other person is going through the same sort of decision making process as I am, and if they’re as good as I am we should come to the same conclusion, and we’re both better off if we co-operate rather than defect, so I’m going to do that’.

Basically, his point was essentially that once you treat other people as people rather than as forces of nature operating without thought, something effectively the same as altruism drops out naturally.

Of course, we’ve already seen lots of evidence that MRA and especially PUA types tend to have problems with ‘people as people’ part of that, especially if the other person is a woman.

rv97
rv97
11 months ago

@Stacey

I’ve read messages saying that men are not entitled to women, but if men are obsessed with women for trying to meet their own happiness (i.e. feeling like they need to be with a woman to feel “complete”), where would this go to? I’ve seen this being more addressed with girls and women especially in recent Tumblr posts from some short cartoon which I can’t exactly remember.

I would have been down this path if I did happen to be cisgender, but I doubt I’m firmly or at all cisgender – I’d have my own reasons about why I feel the way I do about women that would be different from generally most or all men. This is even though I am genuinely alright with being single (I do find the idea of relationships desirable but stifling at the same time); it’s human nature to want someone in many cases I guess though.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
11 months ago

@Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie

Thanks. He (I assume it’s a he) made me really angry.

They always have a choice not to think I’m at their disposal.

I’m sure the redpill assholes will say I collect orbiters (yes I know their bullshit lingo) but I have lots of guy acquaintances some friends and some I thought were friends but have been turning out to be NiceGuy(TM) types. They have a choice. I’ve been wanting to express things here about one who I wasn’t attracted to at all but who was totally in love with me and who acted like an adult human being with respect for me and dealt with it. But I already know I do too many long posts.

So there is always a choice. Like you *can* choose to not leer at me creepily and it doesn’t matter what I’m wearing and no matter how fascinated your wanker self is that, yes, that really is a real whip I carry and I know how to use it. You can be fascinated and not be someone I’m attracted to and not leer and still stay alive all at the same time. Wow! Who thought? What a nice way to be a non-wanker!

If you want to look at me come be a client where I work as a hostess where you are *supposed* to look at me. No matter who you are and whether I would be physically attracted to you or not it’s *also* not leering if I’m being paid.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 months ago

@StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved

You can be fascinated and not be someone I’m attracted to and not leer and still stay alive all at the same time. Wow! Who thought? What a nice way to be a non-wanker!

A significant number of men appear to have trouble understanding this. The only way they will understand is if they can realize that they aren’t entitled to women’s bodies. The entitlement is something the culture teaches them. The only way to fix this is to teach men and boys that they aren’t entitled and to teach them to respect women, and this teaching should be done by other men. It’s not women’s fault, yet the general implication seems to be that women should fix this problem.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
11 months ago

@ StacySmarty:

They have a choice I’ve been wanting to express things here about one who I wasn’t attracted to at all but who was totally in love with me and who acted like an adult human being with respect for me and dealt with it.

Yeah… what a concept!!

I used the word “trauma” in relation to the “issues” IronCthulhu was touting; in many cases, that’s not the right word… (tho it works.) What many of the MRAs grouse about on the chans is really… DISAPPOINTMENT, not trauma. But in any case, if the experience of being disappointed causes stress, GET HELP FOR THE STRESS, don’t take it out on the PERSON who is the “object of your desires.” Hell, when soldiers come home with PTSD, we urge them to get help, we don’t urge them to shoot up a grade school.

I have personally been through a shitload of the very experiences the MRA/MGTOW claim are debilitating them…. It’s “Life on Life’s Terms”… that’s all. It was not a constant struggle to avoid becoming a hateful bigot, UNLESS I CHOSE TO DO SO. (spoiler alert: I didn’t)

I’m not a “beta orbiter”, not a “cuck”, not a “whatever-the-MRA/MGTOEW-insult-of-the-day”… I’m a person trying to be nice (no trademark needed)