It’s PLEDGE DRIVE time again! If you’re a fan of this blog, please help fund its continued existence by clicking the button below. THANKS!
By David Futrelle
Over on the “Gender Critical” subreddit — the most popular hangout for Reddit’s Trans-Excluding Radical Feminists (TERFs) — the regulars are getting good and mad at an unnamed trans women because she said in a video that she wanted to look pretty.
“I just watched a video of a TIM explaining his reasons for facial feminization surgery,” wrote tihozitje, using the TERFy term TIM (Trans-Identified Male) for the trans woman in question
It all boils down to him wanting to look/feel “beautiful”.
The horror. A human being wanting to look attractive. Who ever heard of such an affront to reason and decency?
He said that he was always jealous of the fact that “girls got to look pretty” and that the possibilty of an insurance covering his ffs made him pursue transitioning.
No one transitions because their insurance covers it; they transition because they’re trans — though insurance coverage can determine what surgeries they can and cannot afford.
This man is objectively very unattractive as a man or as a “woman”.
So the crux of the argument is that ugly people should remain ugly, at least if they’re trans? That’s not a “critical” stance; it’s just sort of mean.
It just bothers me so much that these TIMs see womenhood as looking beautiful.
Someone wanting to look good after their transition does not mean that they “see womanhood as looking beautiful”
An “ugly” woman is as much of a woman as any other. I’m tired of having women’s value be determined by their looks.
Well, take that up with society; don’t take your resentment out on a trans woman who’s honestly just hoping to look a little more feminine.
All of this shows how TIMs are truly the biggest sexists.
Well, no. But it does show how petty and spiteful some TERFs can get when faced with a trans woman simply trying to live her best life.
Tihozitje’s post got nearly 250 upvotes and inspired dozens of comments, nearly all of them in agreement with her stance.
“TIMs are the ultimate misogynists,” wrote OmnibusToken..
“They reduce women to makeup and dresses and a ‘feeling,'” added feministdreamer. “We’re not human beings to them at all. It’s sickening.”
Another commenter suggested that trans women just accept that they’re really men — and improve their appearances by hitting the gym and maybe buying themselves a toupee.
Why don’t these stupid idiots work out, wear a toupee, take care of their skin, get some nice clothes and cologne, etc. if they want to look nice?
Still others took a certain pleasure in the notion that nothing this allegedly ugly trans woman could do would actually make her pretty in the end.
“[T]hese men will never be ‘pretty girls,”” wrote wehurrytoourdeaths.
Never. Ugly men in a dress are still ugly men. They will never pass.
Added Arie_r:
These men think that because they don’t look like the top 5% men that they’ll have better luck as women. In reality, if they do transition, they’ll be at the bottom of the barrel of women when it comes to dating because very few people are interested in dating trans people, let alone a non-passing TiM. They might more easily find sex from other males but they will not find a committed loving relationship with someone of their choosing.
Outside of the manosphere itself, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a movement so motivated by spite as “Gender Critical” feminism.
Umm…projection much? I don’t think TERFs view trans people as human beings.
So…their argument is that ugly women are women, but this trans woman that they find ugly is not passing and therefore not a woman? Interesting.
I doubt they’d attack a cis woman for getting facial plastic surgery. And cis women make up the vast majority of plastic surgery patients in America (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
It’s no wonder TERFs find so much common ground with actual factual Nazis.
FARTS have always been well known for their enormous cognitive dissonance. Facts will not dissuade them, and they will gladly bash any trans person for being ugly, and then say that beauty does not make someone a woman. I’ve even shown pictures of bald woman with the same bald pattern I have to show that my baldness doesnt make me less of a woman. Nope, no intellectual honesty at all. I mean, I would love to be pretty, and will use my gender affirmative surgeries to make me look closer to the way i want to look. And i know they will never accept me, even if i was gorgeous and somehow managed to transition in my teens back in the 90s. Nor will they understand how it all works. They are just in it to have a group they can hate to make themselves feel better.*shrugs*
@Definitely Not Steve
Another thing they’ve got in common with Nazis is antisemitic conspiracy theories. A significant number of TERFs claim that trans people and transition are a conspiracy by the pharmaceuticals industry to sell blockers and hormones. And of course, according to them it is all orchestrated by every Nazi’s favorite scapegoat.
They would really hate me as a Jewish trans* woman.
This also reminds me quite a bit of how MGTOWs hate it when women wear makeup.
I can barely type this upsets me so much. These people are being so unnecessarily nasty and cruel about something that goes to the core of my soul.
Wanting to look a way that makes you happy and makes you feel good is NOT the same thing as saying that’s what defines you!!!
To “wehurrytoourdeaths” if anyone of any gender wants to feel good about how they look yes they can and if that person is a woman and she wants to be pretty by whatever standard she can be.
Yes I get it that beauty standards have been used by men to hurt women in patriarchial societies but I will always find joy in feeling beautiful and sexy and that’s my creativity and I love when I play even the smallest role in some other woman especially feel that way and yes you TERF jerks it’s any woman.
Sorry for the rant but I feel really strongly about this.
I had too much of a beautiful set of experiences this weekend to let anything negative change my energy whether my little issue yesterday which I think is going to be ok or reading what these jerks say.
But thank you David for bringing these jerks and their cruel bullshit to light.
I dig how they call us “the ultimate misogynists” while openly working with Christian Dominionists and literal Nazis. I mean, I’m often exasperated by the level of misogyny and gender policing in trans fem communities, but this is a whole other level of hypocrisy and doubletalk.
@Naglfar
Their embracing antisemitism shouldn’t surprise anyone, really. It shares almost the exact same kind of conspiracy and scapegoat based thinking, as opposed to the systems thinking actually required to understand power structures. IMO TERFism is pseudo-antisexism the same way that antisemitism is pseudo-anticapitalism, and it serves the same purpose – it directs collective anger away from the powerful and towards disempowered minorities.
Do they think that pre-transitioning trans women don’t already know that a lot of people say they aren’t willing to date trans people? The notion that trans women are all just incel men who are doing it to get dates is just bizarre.
Also, transphobia like that on display in that reddit thread is a big part of why trans women feel even more pressure than cis women to go to great lengths to meet standards of beauty – and it’s already enormous pressure that cis women are subjected to, so that’s a lot. Pretty hypocritical to complain about trans women having male looking features and then complain about trans women trying to get rid of male looking features.
@Cyborgette
It doesn’t surprise me either, seeing how willing they are to hang out with Nazis. Jews and trans people are, like you said, convenient targets that are easier to attack than the real problems. I’ve seen TERFs working with Nazis but I haven’t seen any working with dominionists yet personally. Doesn’t surprise me in the least though.
I wonder how many TERF heads would explode if they realized that there are at least 3 (maybe more?) Jewish trans commenters here.
@WWTH
It reminds me of the assorted misogynists complaining that women are ugly, then complaining that women use makeup to look better. It creates a no-win situation, and that’s what the bigots want. Yet again, TERFs sound like incels.
@Naglfar
Which is not what they are going to get and which is why they can fuck off while I welcome and make our salon’s clients comfortable and happy when they visit us to look and feel damn gorgeous.
@Naglfar:
No doubt you are just plants on the payroll of the global Zionist cabal, infiltrating our spaces to convince us that trans women can be decent, ordinary people.
Well it won’t work on me! I’m onto you!
They never grew out of the mean student mentality.
@StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
Keep it up. Every step we make towards subverting TERFs/patriarchy/Nazis/other oppressors counts.
@Definitely Not Steve
Dammit, they’re onto us! Abort, abort!…I mean, aren’t we all already being bankrolled by the International Zio-Feminist Conspiracy here anyway? /s
So, general trans question: I see some people write the word “trans” with an asterisk (*), but others do not. What does the asterisk signify, and should I use it?
@Naglfar re: the asterisk
My understanding mostly comes from Crip Dyke, who explains the history of the asterisk and its intention to stand in for both transgender and transsexual here (hope she doesn’t mind me linking) [Link disrupted to confuse the Kraken]:
freethoughtblogs [dot] com/pharyngula/2012/07/10/you-want-to-see-bullying/comment-page-1/#comment-393220
To my understanding, “transsexual” is an ever-evolving word these days, so by proxy the asterisk has ever-evolving usefulness. I have also seen others use “trans*” to mean inclusively “trans-man” or “trans-woman,” though again – evolving language. Whether and in what context you use the asterisk, it is unlikely to offend, so you may use your own judgment.
@Naglfar
Thank you and you keep it up too!
We have to resist and subvert. I try but I struggle a lot with being a feminist but not only working in the beauty industry but liking what I do. A lot. I know that’s problematic big-time for obvious reasons. We have a client who’s really important and spends a lot of money with us and really likes me and comes to see my outfits even when she doesn’t have an appointment and tips me but although she’s never said it to me I once overheard her say something I thought was a nasty transphobic comment. And cis women say cruel things about each other’s appearance behind each other’s backs in salons and well everywhere and the workplaces culture kind of supports that sometimes. So I struggle with what I do but I think you can still always resist and that goes for my art whether it’s at work or in my BDSM social group because I consider just being there and having the relationship there I’m building resisting what oppressors say I have to do and be.
Given that women are having more than five times the plastic surgery that men are having, I think that maybe there is something wrong? Numbers of cosmetic procedures by women keep increasing, while they’ve actually decreased for men in the past couple of years. Eating disorders are increasing, too. Back when I was a budding 13-year-old feminist with my own eating disorder, I would have been disheartened if I’d known that the future would bring no relief from unrealistic beauty standards.
@Definitely Not Steve
Thank you for the link. And thank you to Crip Dyke for the explanation. Regular expressions are something I understand, so that helps me put it in perspective. I’ll use the asterisk when writing if I remember, but I doubt I’d use it while speaking since it sounds strange to say out loud.
Regarding confusing the Kraken, have you tried embedding them with other words? If you select text then press the “link” button and enter your link in the dialogue box it will turn that text into a link and possibly let it through. Or the old fashioned way of typing out <a href=”link goes here“>text goes here</a>
That’s just a suggestion, but it could help with links in the future.
@LindsayIrene
What I meant was to clarify that I wasn’t trying to shame women who get surgery, not that our culture doesn’t have issues with body images and standard. We definitely do have issues, and that is a problem. I could have phrased that better. Sorry, and thank you for pointing out my error.
Shit, is that how that works? Oh, that’s bad news for me. I live in Canada, so technically my “insurance” covers the vast majority of medical procedures.
I guess I need to go pursue getting an appendectomy and a bunch of other procedures, since, you know, it’s covered.
It’s not that people get medical procedures done because they have a need for them, certainly not. /sarcasm
Given the current state of things, I don’t understand why some people have to make other people feel bad for trying to be a better version of themselves.
Well that was almost extremely painful to read. These people really want everyone to follow their gender roles don’t they.
I’ve long noticed the persistent allegation from lesbian FARTs that trans women are really straight men trying to jump their Sapphic bones.
It’s like a mirror image of the fear of some transphobic cis straight men that trans women are really gay men trying to jump their manly-man bones.
They can’t both be right, yet they seem to see each other as allies in the war against the Evil Empire. The interplay on Reddit between r/JBP and r/GenderCritical is quite an unpleasant sight.
@Robert
Do they cross post a lot? It wouldn’t surprise me, but it’s just surreal how much cognitive dissonance can live in a TERF’s head.
OT: Hallmark has reversed its stupid decision and apologized.
TERFs continually play the victim because our personal autonomy has nothing to do with them. As if what we choose to do with our own bodies is subject to their approval, and we’re crossing a line by existing outside of their control.
I think we can all readily think of another group that that sounds like, and it begins and ends with the very name they love to call us.
I dunno, as a transguy I love being a TIM (Trans-Identified Male). And unfortunately, in my experience, many of my transmasculine bros sound sexist (or TERFy): “ “They reduce women to makeup and dresses and a ‘feeling,’” “
Although I’ll say transguys don’t seem to be objectifying and putting down fem people as much as we used to. Perhaps because we can access transition care earlier, so have to deal less with being misperceived as the girls we aren’t?
These TERFs sound suspiciously quite a bit like guys/incels/reddit twerps pretending to be feminists. But yeah, I know there are also *actual* women-purporting-to-be-feminists who claim to exclude Transwomen* from womanhood too.
Yet a big part of me thinks of the times I’ve found men pretending to be feminists and/or women, whites pretending to be Blacks, and trumpkins pretending to be lefties online, all to malign the group they’re pretending to be part of. RooshV (remember him???) was behind Operation Lollipop if I remember correctly?