By David Futrelle
Unable or unwilling to deal with real-life women, more than a few misogynists have turned to imaginary substitutes — from video game hotties to hypnogogic hallucinations they think are succubi.
But the imaginary ladies they feel the strongest about are of course their anime waifus, whom many misogynists have come to feel are superior to IRL women, and not just because their giant eyes would be better to see with,
Now one dude has apparently decided that his obsessive love of 2-dimensional women isn’t just a slightly sad kink but is his actual sexual orientation. You know, like being gay. According to a quite possibly true posting in the Am I The Asshole subreddit, he recently “came out” as an anime lover to his parents and his extremely annoyed sibling.
Anime dude really needs to learn the difference between a fetish and an orientation.
The post inspired quite a debate on Reddit before it was deleted by the subreddit mods.
H/T — @AITA_reddit on Twitter for the Reddit post and the DisgustedAnimeGirls subreddit (yes, this is a real thing) for the graphic.
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@ catalpa
Cheers! Yeah, I was thinking of maybe something like “You’re not my mum; you can’t tell me what to do…oh”; but that’s a bit of a mouthful.
It’s an article for activists. They’ve been on the receiving end of injunctions a bit lately. (Which gave me an interesting case where my clients are “persons unknown”). But we’re also looking at weaponising the law a bit more; so it’s also on how to bring an injunction application.
In addition, male-presenting ace folks often face hostility and abuse for not living up to the toxic masculine ideal of wanting sex. For not being a ‘real man’, etc.
If a dude wants sex but is single, that’s one thing (and I’m sure that those guys face their own problems, don’t get me wrong). But if a guy doesn’t want sex (and doesn’t couch it in misogynistic women-blaming MTGOW-ish terms), then there is something seriously wrong with him, he must be gay, he must be lying, he’s some kind of freak, he doesn’t belong, etc.
If the guy wants to stay silent and let other people think he’s a “normal” guy who’s just not lucky with the ladies, then, yeah, he’s going to be treated relatively normally and possibly with sympathy/pity. But if he wants to embrace his asexuality and be open about it? It’s not going to be easy for him in our current culture.
A lot of the ‘ace people don’t experience REAL discrimination’ rhetoric that I’ve seen assumes that ace people should just never talk about it or feel any kind of emotional connection to their identity. And I don’t see “you can always just stay in the closet!” as a privilege.
As for acephobia, erasure I can understand as an issue. Sexual coercion of AFAB people generally is a widely known issue.
As for the general understanding that sexual orientation means gendered attraction, I’ll go with that, arbitrary or not.
It’s been a great discussion. Now, my time zone says, “go to sleep”.
@Lumipuna
I may be way off here, but isn’t it possible for you to identify as “kinky” or some variation thereof without it being your sexual orientation?
It may be because I’m asexual, and it’s always been a bit hard for me to understand why people identify strongly with a sexual orientation, but that’s probably mostly because I don’t socialise much* and all of three people IRL know I’m asexual.
… might have something to do with trying to present as androgynous and people at times reading me as a gay man or something.
* Should probably definitely work on this. Maybe next year?
@Catalpa
I’m sure I’m privileged in the way that I can mostly fly under the radar and be invisible if I don’t make noise, but repeatedly wondering whether or not I can be honest in my self-expression is not the fun part of that privilege.
The best way I can think to put it is: Kinks are what gets you off; Orientation is who gets you off. (With none being a valid option of course).
Also, I don’t have any studies to cite or anything but sexual orientation is as old as humans are.
If it only seems ‘recent’ it’s because the societal default has been ‘straight’ backed up with violence/death/exclusion for those who weren’t/aren’t.
Excuse me, what the fuck?
You know, I’d really like to hear your reasons you think (thought?) it isn’t.
Especially since it doesn’t relate in any way to your post of “I’m sceptical of the distinction of sexual orientation vs kink, and also asexuals”.
*[asexuality] doesn’t relate to the rest of your post
Sorry, couldn’t edit my previous post.
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape),
There is no should. Not about your sex drive. You don’t feel like masturbating, then don’t.
Some medications do affect sex drive. In those cases, you decide if the side effect is worth the intended effect. There are a lot of anti-depressants out there, not all of them effect your sex drive and there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying out different types. The only down side is that you need about two months to really get a feel for how a new medication is working for you (unless the effect is catastrophically bad), so finding the right one can take some time.
That said, it really is a question of you do you. You are not who you were 10 years ago. Why would your sex drive/sexual needs be the same?
I am starting to push 70 pretty hard and my sex drive is slowly wafting away. But I don’t worry about it. When I feel like it, I do it. The advantage of living alone and/or not having a sex partner is that there is no push to provide what your partner needs. You only have to provide what you need.
I heard about some asexuals still feeling romantically very attracted. There are less romantic men and women who might have more trouble understanding that than people who have a high romantic component in their sexual attractions. By non romantic I’m not shaming any of these people as totally carnal or with no feelings but sex impulses toward those who they desire as it’s obviously not the case at all :D.
But I also read on youtube comments about a woman who says she asexual but loves having sex with his boyfriend because she loves pleasing him despite her lack of sexual involvement, which yeah resonated as weird to me, not judging, and potentially problematic, but as long as she says she’s having a great relationship it would be more problematic of me questioning her outside of simple discrete curiousity, which is what of course some people who commented did, as usual, questioning her integrity, accusing her of gaming him, this one was the usual “bro”, you know who thinks he’s totally reality based and makes his model prescriptive and has been relentless reply after reply.
As for it being an orientation, why not, it’s a matter of evolving definition, not just limited on who, well mostly which group, but also how, it really depends on which definition, dunno :).
Another cases I read of, men and women who still masturbate and hence have a sexual urge to please themselves and potentially orgasm, but don’t connect it to members of either gender, but might or might not as said, being romantically attracted to them, hence loving and in some cases even pleasing them, which I know it should be reciprocal and might echo the idea of women pleasing men as service, though in the case of Ace’s it might be the cases for any of them doing that to their non ace partner, man or woman.
Not sure if Ot, so back to the “anime orientation”, as you said, the bad part might be the possible mysogynist foundation of this orientation, like D. K. Meller’s “love” for dolls was that an orientation, with its baggage of hating women’s agency and autonomy?
By the extended meaning it might be, but it differs from the gay vs straight and bi question or Ace by an order: not involving not even consenting people, but even sentient being, just a mediatic representation, drawing on paper or virtual paper, the non human material of dolls, being the “media”, in both cases idealized versions, far from reality, a refusal of real persons and possibly their humanity and agency.
I already foresess a possibly false equivalence for women from the manosphere, the Prince Charming, though that’s made out of idealizing his status and agency, to which they’d counter it aligns with innate gender differences, women seeking status and men, to them, sign of availability and vulnerability is proxy for availability, though that’s a really sad way of conceiving male sexuality.
Hi to all again :).
Naglfar says:
You can be asexual and get off to images of and ideas about non-real people. You can also be asexual and not realize it and misinterpret your ability to get off to non-real people as the attraction allosexuals feel towards actual people.
In reference to the comments discourse, I will note that sexuality and romanticism are two very different things.
In reference to the article itself, it’s unrealistic expectations. Even in a case of recursive fiction, Hifumi Yamada faltered.
Wow I never thought I would see acephobia on here. Great! /s ? and to connect someone being misogynist to being ace???? Please, I ask you to kindly fuck off.
Here is a good idea: if you are going to talk about ace people/ask ignorant question maybe think about if you will ask/say those things about other sexualities? Maybe think if some of the commenters here are ace? Then dont say those things and google it and read about it yourself.
Yeah, I gotta say that it was a bit unpleasant to come across aphobic rhetoric here. Seconding Valentin.
It sounds like the person is asexual but has never really taken the time to understand what asexuality is like — or even the varieties of ace out there. It is possible to be asexual and panromantic at the same time
So, it could be possible to be asexual and attracted intellectually to fictional people
Thanks catalpa,
For anyone who really wants to learn about the ace/aro experience I suggest this website: https://www.asexuality.org/
It is very informative, and gives many perspectives, because amazingly not all ace/aro people are the same, some ace people even have sex!
This is not what is happening – at all. This person fetshises animated women with unnatural bodies and also says mysrogisnistic things (about woman smell we all know that is because of the stereotype about vaginas). Please stop connecting these beliefs and behaviour with ace people. It is really harmful and insulting.
@Valentin, Catalpa
Not sure if you are responding to me, but if anything I said came across as acephobic, I am sorry. That was not my intent, and I will more closely watch to make sure nothing I say can be construed as against asexual people.
??????
@Naglfar
Nah, you’re fine, I certainly didn’t notice anything aphobic from you in this thread. Mostly my issue is with the folks who are going “hey these guys who talk about how disgusting and vile women are, they’re clearly asexual since this is standard behavior for asexuals doncha know”, as well as the questions about whether asexuality is a “valid” sexuality and if asexuals really actually face any kind of discrimination. You’ve been very thoughtful and I appreciate your contributions.
But thank you for being so considerate! <3
Everyone, sorry for my previous, barely coherent post. I wrote it when I really should have been going to sleep.
I’m ace myself and I was kinda upset that the question I quoted was seen like a normal thing to just discuss. I shouldn’t have phrased my reply as if I wanted to discuss it further.
Thanks, Valentin, for putting all this much better.
For the record, I’m also ace myself and I’m just trying to point out that getting off to something does not mean someone can’t be asexual. You’re an asexual if you lack sexual attraction to actual people (or only experience it under extremely restricted circumstances).
Whatever flavor sundae this numpty’s got filling his dish, there’s a whole can of whipped misogyny cream sprayed on top of it.
I am on the ace side myself and I have actually thought at times that sex is kind of yucky and weird. And of course, other people, like me, are made of meat and blood and icky smelling gases and various slimes. This doesn’t stop me from respecting them as people, it just means I’m not really into sex. I have to be pretty interested in somebody’s mind to be interested in their uh, for lack of a better term, flesh.
And to be clear about it, I am mostly not a sex-repulsed person, but that level of ace people does exist and I don’t think they necessarily disrespect people they don’t want to have sex with either.
To clarify: there are a number of red flags with the guy into 2D representations, but there’s not enough info to totally draw the conclusion that he’s a virulent misogynist either. He may just be a gray ace like me.
*wheezing laughter*
Bloody hell, what’s next?
Good Morning, everyone
I gather that further discussion on asexuality would be unpleasant for the ace folks here, and probably not helpful for my understanding either. I’ll take people’s words that ace oppression is real. I personally appreciate that my family doesn’t harass me for being single, regardless of whether I’m actually (borderline) asexual or not.
I suppose the main discussion topic should have been all the misogynist red flags present in the quoted story. I certainly didn’t mean to join in the comments drawing a connection between asexuality and misogyny. I think I’ve seen that happen sometimes before in regard to similar misogyny. I get that it’s beside the point and enables acephobia.