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“Female orgasm has no evolutionary function” and other insights from some dude who’s very bad at sex

Photographic proof that only men can have orgasms

By David Futrelle

Look, everyone, it’s yet another dude who thinks that female orgasms are a myth.

How bad do you have to be at sex to post something like this? How completely lacking in self-awareness?

Alas, it gets worse, with the inclusion of some Evo Psch and possibly the creepiest take on female genital mutilation I’ve ever seen.

nndtx6eriy7cuol8iyvftuovt

H/T — found this in r/BadWomensAnatomy; couldn’t locate the original source

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Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

Umm…I can see why this fellow isn’t getting a date.

Also, I read somewhere that female orgasm, in addition to providing a reward for sex, also may serve to cause contractions to draw sperm in, increasing odds of conception. So even if you are a reductionist asshole who doesn’t give pleasure to women, there is still another function of the orgasm.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
1 year ago

So he knows nothing of the development of human genitalia in utero, and doesn’t know much about female anatomy. The clitoris has double the nerve endings of the penis–what does he think those are for, anyway?

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

Old joke:

God in the Garden of Eden, handing out abilities to Adam and Eve:

God (consulting clipboard): Which one of you wants “able to pee standing up”?
Adam: ME ME MEEEEEE PICK ME PICK ME PICK ME
God: OK, sure whatever
Adam (running around in circles, flipping Eve the bird): YES YES IN YOUR FACE SQUAT-PEE-ER!1!!
God (looking at Eve): I guess that leaves you with “multiple orgasms”…

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

@Naglfar: Another “reason” I’ve heard for the evolution of female orgasm was that a woman in the blissed-out post-coital state was liable to remain in a horizontal position for longer, thus ensuring that the dude’s sperm didn’t leak out¹. Frankly, I think they just make this shit up.

¹ Though isn’t the cliché that it’s the dude that immediately conks out after orgasm, to the chagrin of his partner who wants some cuddle-time? I guess the evolutionary-just-so-story types want to believe the guy would leap up immediately after the deed to go mammoth-hunting or something…

Specialffrog
Specialffrog
1 year ago

Even if the female orgasm has no evolutionary purpose — which is still an open question — neither do a large chunk of characteristics of every organism on the planet. So what?

Viscaria
Viscaria
1 year ago

Yeah, I’m not particularly bothered about whether my orgasms arose out of some sort of evolutionary advantage or if it’s just a biological accident. Either way, they are fun and I like them.

I’m not interested in having sex with anyone who doesn’t care about my pleasure, whether they try to justify that selfishness through a bunch of sciency-sounding nonsense or not.

Valentin
Valentin
1 year ago

Wow these cis men are very good at telling everyone that they are no good at sex and dont care about their sex partner. It happens so often I thought that maybe they would learn already. There is always some man on twitter like a pick up artist or similar who makes a comment like this every week, then everyone laughs at him and then another one next week!

But it’s also not very funny if you think about it because men like this usually also abuse women. If you dont care about anything except your own orgasm it means you dont see the other person like a real person.

Irene
Irene
1 year ago

Men’s orgasms don’t have a whole lot of evolutionary function, either. (Most mammals ejaculate without appearing to experience anything we’d call orgasm.)

Valentin
Valentin
1 year ago

I’m not sure I am comfortable with calling things female or male or men’s orgasm just because of what the kind of genitals which are there.

Bina
1 year ago

I really want to thrust Waris Dirie’s memoir into this bozo’s hands. She had FGM, and it ruined her life for YEARS before she finally got some corrective surgery just so she could pee and menstruate halfway normally. Quite aside from the loss of sexual pleasure, she was left deformed by the butchery of her private parts. And lots of women not only ARE bothered by it, immensely; lots of girls also die as a direct result of that. So this guy is full of shit right there.

Also, way to misinterpret scientific findings! An actual scientist would dispute the “no evolutionary function” nine ways till Friday, and point out that orgasm is probably a holdover from some distant mammalian ancestor of ours who came into estrus, and ovulated as a result of sexual arousal in order to ensure fertilization. But this guy’s insecure feels are clearly more important than any woman’s reals.

Or even the realities of evolution, for that matter.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

Why does everything have to justify its existence by having a Purpose? Can’t things just be?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Trump got booed at yet another sporting event

comment image

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
1 year ago

I read a very long time ago that procreation is more likely to happen if the person who would be pregnant lays down after sex, because of a bunch of reasons among which gravity.

Now, I have no idea how true that bit was, and obviously procreation should not be held as the ultimate goal of sex, but as someone with insomnia and (formerly) an active sex life I can tell you that orgasms are one great way to keep each other laying down after sex. For that matter, it’d mean cuddling after sex also is useful.

Yanno what really doesn’t have an evolutionary purpose ? Dudes spreading bullshit on the internet the same way a wild cat marks territory. Unless the bullshit has any genetic component to it (which I doubt) in which case these dudes would be making humanity better by visibly hanging a “don’t fuck me” sign around their necks and taking themselves out of the gene pool.

LollyPop
LollyPop
1 year ago

If you are into evo psych can’t the evolutionary purpose just be that orgasms motivate women to have sex, ergo, passing on their genes?? I mean, these people believe that all girls like pink because it motivates them to pick BERRIES, for God’s sake, it’s not as if any idea is too flimsy for them.

Oh yes, I’ve just remembered. They only like evo psych theories which frame gender stereotypes (and especially those that benefit men) as completely natural, how it was and forever will be so.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

To everyone with the kind of beliefs highlighted by David’s latest post:

Explain the popularity of the Hitachi Magic Wand.

Checkmate, female-orgasm-denialists!

nndtx6eriy7cuol8iyvftuovt

Gezundheit!

Most mammals ejaculate without appearing to experience anything we’d call orgasm.

[citation needed]

Why does everything have to justify its existence by having a Purpose? Can’t things just be?

Indeed.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

Ok, who wants to bet this guy is a Peterson stan?

@WWTH
I saw. Of course, since he primarily lives in his own make-believe world, I’m not sure what his reaction will be. Probably to take about disloyal people or something at his next rally.

@Sinkable John

For that matter, it’d mean cuddling after sex also is useful.

Much like orgasm, it’s also pleasant IMO. In fact, I tend to prefer cuddling post-sex over the actual sex.

Unless the bullshit has any genetic component to it (which I doubt) in which case these dudes would be making humanity better by visibly hanging a “don’t fuck me” sign around their necks and taking themselves out of the gene pool.

Maybe the evolutionary purpose of evo-psych is to weed these people out of the gene pool by making sure they don’t reproduce. I don’t think that sign will be necessary, someone who posts this kind of crap online probably never shuts up about it in the real world either.

@LollyPop

these people believe that all girls like pink because it motivates them to pick BERRIES, for God’s sake

That’s a new one. I’m not sure if it’s dumber or less idiotic than the OP. Not to mention that I know a lot of girls that don’t like pink, and boys that do. The most common favorite color in people of all genders is blue. And although women do favor pink more than men do, I would guess this has more to do with social conditioning regarding masculinity. I used to like pink a lot (and still do, even though blue is my favorite color), but as a male-presenting child I was told often that I wasn’t supposed to like pink, and discouraged from used the color.

They only like evo psych theories which frame gender stereotypes (and especially those that benefit men) as completely natural, how it was and forever will be so.

My biggest criticism of popular evo-psych is that it somehow always produces 1950s gender roles that contradict actual human behavior. I’m sure there is someone doing research in evo-psych who gets valid information that isn’t misogynistic (or racist), but for the most part it seems like a way for reactionary idiots to justify their views. For more dissection of evo psych BS, I recommend the Twitter account evo psych googling.

Besides, if behavior in 1950s gender roles was so ingrained, you’d think people wouldn’t question them. It’s almost like this sort of thing is BS…

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

Oh, and for these evo-psych types, I’m pretty sure their anus serves the evolutionary purpose of being a receptacle for their head.

MJ
MJ
1 year ago

I’ve met someone who academically studies FGM, for decades, and can tell you all about how the women’s lives are destroyed… if they survive.

Of course, if he heard that FGM kills women he’d probably become a very vocal supporter of it.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

How many edible berries in nature are hot pink? Shouldn’t women be more attracted to red, black, and blue?

And wasn’t pink considered a “boys color” until the mid 20th century? Did women start routinely gathering berries in 1935? Because evolution moves suddenly, and gendered fashion marketing has no choice but to keep up?

I get that these guys are unable to make sense of the world, which makes them ripe targets for junk science and conspiracy thinking, but come ON.

Joekster
Joekster
1 year ago

Naglfar was right the first time-there’s a number of aspects of female orgasm that help sperm get to the uterus, thereby improving odds of procreation. While it isn’t absolutely necessary for reproduction, it does help quite a bit.

FranticCaps
FranticCaps
1 year ago

CW: Rape

If you are into evo psych can’t the evolutionary purpose just be that orgasms motivate women to have sex, ergo, passing on their genes??

I suspect that to the average evopsych devotee, it doesn’t really matter if women are motivated to have sex. The hypothesis that rape played an important role in human evolution still has quite a lot of traction among these guys.

Moon Custafer
1 year ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants:

Did women start routinely gathering berries in 1935?

Well, it was the Depression, everyone had to start foraging for food… 😉

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

How many edible berries in nature are hot pink? Shouldn’t women be more attracted to red, black, and blue?

I know of only one pink berry in my region and it does happen to be edible. It varies from soft pink to red in color and you almost never see pink around. In fact the plant is called Red Huckleberry because it’s typically red.

Even the berry rule doesn’t support this idea.

The “berry rule” is that 10% of white and yellow berries are edible; 50% of red berries are edible; 90% of blue, black, or purple berries are edible, and 99% of aggregated berries are edible. This is only a guideline, and unknown berries shouldn’t be eaten

It doesn’t even mention pink. The color just isn’t common in berries.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@kupo

It doesn’t even mention pink. The color just isn’t common in berries.

Maybe they were foraging for frozen yogurt?

Weasel-Rah
Weasel-Rah
1 year ago

Female orgasm has the same evolutionary purpose as male orgasm- giving the individual a reward for engaging in sex. I’m not sure a lot of people, male or female, would bother with it if there wasn’t a physical reward- it’s messy and inconvenient.
I was having a conversation with a guy friend who was in the midst of a dating dry spell and was inclined to complain about how easy women have it, how we all can get anyone we want anytime, whinge whinge. We were talking about risk/reward of casual sex, and how women have a different risk to reward ratio. I asked him if he’d still go for it every time, if he could “get anyone he wants” but only get to have an orgasm maybe a quarter of the time, while still having all the usual risks. He emphatically declared it wouldn’t be worth it. Me: …

Specialffrog
Specialffrog
1 year ago

Weasel-rah: how do you know that is the evolutionary purpose of orgasms?

Most traits are not selected at all so it requires significant evidence to show that a trait is even a selected one let alone that it was selected for a particular purpose.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

@Moon Custafer

“The Grapes of Wrath” was really about incels’ hatred for pink berries.

Seph
Seph
1 year ago

Is ‘encouraging cis women to do more sex’ not an evolutionary purpose, then?

Otrame
Otrame
1 year ago

I read a book a few years ago that told about a 19th century French prostitute who got interested in why some women frequently have orgasms during penis in vagina sex, while many others never or seldom did.

She had an advantage over male researchers of the time. She had lots of women who would let her examine their genitals, as well as talk honestly about sex to her . She went about her study methodically, and eventually decided that if the clitoris was more than an inch from the opening of the vagina then orgasm during p-n-v sex was unlikely in the man on top position. Such women were not “frigid”. The variation in their anatomy made orgasms in typical missionary position unlikely. In fact, she found that the woman sitting in the man’s lap during sex was most likely to achieve an orgasm during p-n-v sex in such women.

Now, I doubt that most of you have ever heard of this woman. She was just a prostitute and a woman as well, so no one ever paid any attention to her. And I doubt if anyone has redone the analysis since, since I’ve never heard anything about it until I read this fairly obscure modern book.

The book is Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex by Burr. It has a lot of interesting things in it. I recommend.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Seph
Not to them. They really like to construct a narrative in which rape is OK, so they don’t care if women want to have sex. We hear that a lot among the orgasm denialists and manospherians in general.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
1 year ago

@Naglfar

I don’t think that sign will be necessary, someone who posts this kind of crap online probably never shuts up about it in the real world either.

Yep sorry that was an English failure on my part. What I meant was that it is essentially what they’re doing already when they spew that shit, they’re completely wearing that metaphorical sign.

I have a bad combination of language traits, 1) I’m really fuckin verbose and 2) I am not actually that good at English despite what everyone here tells me, so the result is I often take many, many words to say the exact opposite of what I mean 😀

I don’t know if you get used to it eventually. I still haven’t.

Anna
Anna
1 year ago

I m afraid its only a beginning and that dude is checking the waters for all that FGM stuff. I am actually suprised that manosphere has not came up witch such idea earlier. In cultures this practice is prevalent it is considered a necessary measure to curb female sexuality thus making them proper wife material. In more radical version girl is even being sewn up so urine and menstrual blood have to pass throu pinhead sized hole untill wedding night when small knife comes handy for the groom… Now merge it up with all the redpill crap and voila!

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Sinkable John
No problem. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you said. I thought you were describing a literal sign, as I have a tendency to read things far too literally. The error is on my end.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Otrame: ooh interesting, that might go on my to-read queue at some point.

@Naglfar

I spent most of my teenage years believing that humans should be exclusively matriarchal, and that men should be allowed no political or military power… For many of the same reasons these guys think biology justifies rape. Even if the “facts” were correct, the conclusions they draw tell us worlds about what kind of people they are.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 year ago

I’m starting to feel inclined to go around telling people that men don’t have nipples. I mean, there’s no reason for them to, evolution-wise. If anyone tries to tell me I’m wrong, I’ll just double down, because apparently you can do that.

Viscaria
Viscaria
1 year ago

I just want to agree with @Specialffrog. I’m no kind of scientist, but it is also my understanding that we would need evidence to claim that orgasms experienced by AFAB people emerged in humans because of X selective pressure. Maybe some evidence will be found to support that hypothesis, maybe not.

To me, the important thing is what Buttercup Q. Skullpants said. It doesn’t have to serve some purpose to exist. These dudes are just using words that sound vaguely scientific to disregard women’s feelings and desires.

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

Rebecca Watson on this topic:

Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

Another round of “if I can’t think of a reason, there must be no reason.”

Pink haired old lady
Pink haired old lady
1 year ago

I remember an old essay by Stephen J. Gould titlesMale Nipples and Clitoral Ripples on the subject. He wanted to title it Tits and Clits but his wife objected. His take is that both traits are a result of developmental pathways shared regardless of sex.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

Yeah, people really tend to overestimate the amount of nitpicky ‘selection’ caused by evolutionary pressures. A lot of things in biology are how they are because there’s no pressing reason for them not to be. E.g. Why are pandas that colour pattern? Because nothing hunts them and you don’t need to sneak up on bamboo, so there’s selective pressure to be any particular pattern. The rest is just genetic drift and a small founder population.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

@Surplus:

Most mammals ejaculate without appearing to experience anything we’d call orgasm.

[citation needed]

I suspect Irene’s point is that animal copulation tends to be a lot less… performative than the human variety. It tends to be rather perfunctory and mechanical to our eyes. There’s usually no great climax, and afterwards both parties seem to go about their business very matter-of-factly and with about as much ceremony as they carry out any other bodily function. The difference may be because the “performance” part is taken care of by the courtship displays that precedes most animals’ mating; another possibility is that humans have a concept of deferred gratification that I’m not sure many other animals share, and so we generally try to spin out the act for as long as we can while also maintaining arousal.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Cat Mara
Bonobos are also known for drawn-out foreplay much like that of humans. As well, there is some evidence that dolphins do this as well (dolphins tend to be hypersexual and rather kinky). Many other animals appear to experience orgasm, but like you mentioned, they don’t have long copulation the way humans do.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
1 year ago

@Naglfar

No no no it definitely was not on your end, I read it again and even I wondered what the hell I meant, so, yanno 🙂

Shoulda been “these dudes are making humanity better” instead of “would be”. I kinda have a curse with ESL mistakes, the ones I make are always the weird near-undetectable grammar fails that completely change the meaning of a sentence – no one can tell I used the wrong tense there without knowing what I meant, and no one can know what I meant based on what I said because I spectacularly (and very elegantly if I do say so myself, I’m a master wordsmith of ESL fuckery tbh) messed up the grammar.

Hi I’m John, I mostly lurk and don’t show up often these days because depression is kicking my ass hard, but when I do I make sure to remind y’all of why everyone hates the French 🙂

Weasel-Rah
Weasel-Rah
1 year ago

Im not a scientist, so take my opinion with as much salt as you want. But I’m not sure why suddenly the well researched mechanism of a body releasing dopamine when something good for its survival/propagation occurs is called into question when it’s the female orgasm only.
There’s no ”reason” for people to love french fries like they do, except that your body craves salt and fat because those were, pre -civilization, harder to come by so getting them was incentivized. (I’m using incentivized here as a shorthand, I don’t know if there’s a good concise word in English for “adapted over millennia by selective pressure by a cold, uncaring universe”)
Also, I’m giving alllll the side eye to the claim that animals don’t orgasm. How would we even know? I’ve been in enough zoos and farms to know that at least the mammals and birds masturbate, and females as well as males.
The amount of time spent doing the deed seems to relate more to how likely it is that you get predated on or potentially injured by a partner. Prey animals can’t really spend hours locked together like wolves can.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Sinkable John

depression is kicking my ass hard

This time of year makes me depressed as well. Hope you feel better soon.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

OT: Economics has a patriarchy problem. https://evonomics.com/economics-gender-women-adams/

Specialffrog
Specialffrog
1 year ago

@Weasel-rah: my comment applies to AFAB and AMAB orgasms. Just because there is a dopamine release associated with some acts that can be helpful to passing on genes it doesn’t automatically follow that this characteristic was selected for in human ancestors. It may seem intuitively true but demonstrating to be so takes more work. The consistent failure to do this work is why evo psych is almost entirely baseless.

You could even argue that AMAB orgasms are a hindrance to reproduction as it is generally easy to have them in non-reproductive contexts.

Slutty Miss Havisham
Slutty Miss Havisham
1 year ago

Hiya! I’m back!
Can he explain the sale of vibrators? Or the mere existence of Ann Summer’s shops?

Weasel-Rah
Weasel-Rah
1 year ago

Special frog, since the structures that produce orgasm in AMAB and AFAB folks start out in the fetus exactly the same and change according to influence of hormones in utero, it’s not really far fetched that they have similar abilities. See also nipples, as was mentioned above.
Weather or not traits have a purpose or are random hiccups or holdovers from an ancient past is really beyond anyone to really say, I think. Unless Jesus actually does come back to Clarissa Explains It All to us someday (unlikely) most people agree that orgasms exist, and many of those people seem to find them a motivating factor. But I’m sure there will never be a shortage of people willing to study it For Science.

occasional reader
occasional reader
1 year ago

You see millions of women in the world getting circumcised (“ritual clitorectomy”) and it dosen’t seem to bore etc…

It is not circumcision, it is excision. It has nothing to do with just offing the small skin hood above the clitoris, it is, as you just write it after, the cut of the clitoris. It is about the same thing as if you are cutting the head of the penis or emasculate a person.
Contrary to circumcision, excision (for religious motive or other) is prohibited in France and considered as a mutilation (same thing for emasculation). It does not concern, of course, withdrawal operations with consenting persons. But as excision is mainly acted upon young adolescents, consent can not be considered as given in the majority of cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation