By David Futrelle
The AskDoctors subreddit is designed to be a place that people can ask doctors the sorts of questions they might ask some doctor they’ve managed to corner at a dinner party — “hey doc, does this look infected to you?” The topics currently under discussion in the subreddit include “White stuff coming out where stitches were,” “How do you treat a stab wound?” and “Severe farts.”
A couple of days ago, one angry incel called GreekSymmetrics decided to ask a rather different sort of question, demanding to know “Why are modern urologists/endocrinologists so misandristic and ignorant?”
GreekSymmetrics was apparently furious at his doctors for telling him that his somewhat smaller than average penis was no big deal.
Hold up, you might say. Wouldn’t a heterosexual dude with a smaller dick be glad to hear that small dicks are normal and that most women don’t really care about penis size, as numerous surveys have shown?
But no. Incels are so devoted to their victim status that they’ve convinced themselves that every alleged physical imperfection they have is a HUGE deal that will prevent them forever from winning over the girl of their dreams.
And they get pretty testy about it, as GreekSymmetrics’ long rant males clear. Brace yourself, because here it comes.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
Now you might find yourself wondering about one of GreekSymmetrics’ claims: if small-dicked men were eliminated from the gene pool during caveman days, why are there still men with smal dicks? Don’t worry! He answered this crucial question in a followup comment:
The small penis gene hasnt evaporated because since the modern civilization women began to accept weaker unmasculine men with lots of resources and Money, of course they werent sexually satisfyed by them, but they received a stable home and income from them which why they gave birth to their Kids as a exchange …
This is precisely observeable if you take a look how the jaw size and facial masculinity of men declined when marriage came into Play at the times of the modernization
I would try to verify this experimentally, but my calipers are in the shop.
H/T — r/Cringetopia, via r/TheBluePill.
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OT
Donald J. Trump is now justifying abandoning the Kurds by saying they didn’t help the US at Normandy during World War II.
My boyfriend points out that Germany didn’t help us either.
Uh-oh.
@Naglfar
Thanks, but I should also note that it’s less about the potential of excusing it and more about the demonizing of bodies which produce more testosterone than average. Testosterone can affect moods, energy levels, etc., but does not create toxic behaviors; society does that part.
Jon Krakauer wrote a book about Mount Everest, in which he commented that he didn’t really want to climb Everest, he wanted to be someone who had climbed Everest.
I think there’s something similar about incels. They aren’t really interested in having sex, at least with average-looking women. They don’t really like women and aren’t all that interested even in their vaginas. What they want is to be known as a guy who’s had sex with a lot of very attractive women, because they think that’ll give them status with their male peers. That’s more or less the same thing with penis size — guys compare dongs in the locker room and those with big ones (in the flaccid state, of course) acquire status. It’s a teen thing, of course, but the incels never seem to get past 16.
They assume that adult women will judge them by the same standards as teenage boys do. Since to them women are mostly useful as sexual ego trips, and this attitude comes across fairly clearly to most women, few women are ever horny enough to engage in sex which is bound to be short, incompetent and unsatisfying with a guy who looks at them as a life support system for a vagina. This means that most young men with this attitude are likely to be mostly celibate. (Unless they are extremely attractive [Chadly]? I can’t answer that one.)
So (highly-attractive) women deny them their inalienable right to be considered studly by their peers. And it is easier to blame women who won’t let them use their vaginas for a measly three minutes or so because of some physical flaw that they cannot control like dick size, rather than recognize that their personalities do not conduce to women wasting even three minutes of their life with them — something they could possibly do something about.
@Kat: the Normandy thing seems to have come from a tweet by a fascist named Kurt Schlichter. See https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2019/10/qotd-ignoramus.html
Adding my 2 cents re the “size” question; TMI warning:
having been with both an “endowed” partner & a more modestly equipped gentleman (not at the same time), oddly enough they were very similar.
By which I mean I had good experiences with both gentlemen because both were interested in making sure we both enjoyed the sex.
So, lots of touching–and no mad, immediate stampede for the genitals–oral, different positions–we enjoyed a whole smorgasbord to choose from.
And that’s 1 of the main differences I see between what I just described & the OP’s rant: we enjoyed what we were doing, we enjoyed playing together–a concept which pretty much eludes the OP.
On larger vs smaller breasts:
I once read that smaller breasted women may actually experience more sensation when their breasts receive attention than larger breasted women do.
The reasoning was that smaller breasted women had more nerve concentration per square inch of skin.
Not sure how valid the reasoning is, but a good friend who I’ve known since high school (and who was, shall we say, modest in the size department) who told me once that when hers receive attention, she definitely feels it below the waistline.
Me? I’m more on the “endowed” side of things. When money are touched, yeah, it’s nice but not nearly as effective as, say. When my partner plays with the back of my neck–that is shiver-enducing for me & in a very good way.
@GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina
I clicked through. Thanks! I always enjoy reading Digby on Salon.
The fact that Trump is influenced by someone like Schlichter horrifies me — and I thought I’d gotten beyond horror.
here’s a kitten playing the koto, even more relaxing: https://twitter.com/i/status/1180430987571945473
That is from the Paul Bronks twitter feed, in case I have not detailed it correctly
Hah! Joke’s on you, I was average sized (back when I was still rocking my factory-issued equipment) and I still made myself into a (mostly) submissive lesbian.
PS Fingers, dude, fingers. It’s not all about oral, you know?
@kupo
Didn’t mean to demonize high testosterone people either. Sorry about that as well, and thanks for correcting my error.
@GOSJM
I think that this is a common mentality among pickup artists as well. They aren’t interested in sex itself, they see it as a conquest, a way to have status. This mentality leads to really bad sex and unfulfilling relationships devoid of meaning.
Much thanks, friend!
@Grumpy:
Bingo!
And that’s also what’s behind the porn-induced mindset that when it comes to boobs and penises, bigger is better and more satisfying. It’s not a “what women really want” thing. It’s not even a “what men really want” thing. It’s a “what we are conditioned to think we want because that’s all we see when our sexual education consists mainly of commercially-commodified sexual images” thing.
Porn isn’t interested in the modestly-endowed or average-looking human body, no matter how capable that body is of satisfying and being satisfied. It’s about bringing fantasy to (larger than) life. Outsize equipment is what sells. Inane contrasts between tiny young women (who nonetheless have breasts like udders) and big men (who are big all over) are pushed like you wouldn’t believe. The “barely legal” (i.e., not yet mature, but just old enough to skirt age-of-consent laws) virgin who is simultaneously a horny slut just waiting to pop out of every piece of her suspiciously skimpy clothing. The man with the bulging steroid muscles, but without the shrunken genitalia that also happen to be a major side effect of ‘roids. The incredibly virile, testosterone-oozing guy who miraculously also has a full head of hair (because higher testosterone tends to bring out the male-pattern baldness, alas). All of these are fantasies sold and re-sold endlessly by porn.
All of them, also, are catered to the guy who has insecurities out the wazoo, and fantasies about impressing his friends with something visible and tangible. There is no room in them for anything so nebulous, variable, and intangible as a personality that “clicks” with another. Nobody in the ultra-materialistic world of commodified sex is impressed with partners who don’t look like much, but somehow manage to like each other an awful lot.
And in the incels’ crab bucket, where “maxxing” is the be-all and end-all, things like that never manage to register. Why have an average-looking partner you like, who likes you back, who enjoys sex with you and vice versa, when your so-called buddies are all sneering about how boringly average she is? And why throw them and their disapproval aside, when that will only get you sneered at as being “not a real man”?
It often gets lost in the shuffle, but one of the things the sexual revolution of the late 1960s-early 1970s did work very hard on, and succeeded quite a bit at, was encouraging self-acceptance, as well as acceptance of others. Because it was then that different body types started to gain recognition as normal, okay, acceptable and even beautiful. And non-standardized sexualities and gender expressions were also starting to emerge and gain acceptance. The women’s movements, the black-power and gay-rights movements, all worked toward those goals as well. And people’s overall mental well-being was immeasurably better as a result.
But starting with the AIDS crisis of the 1980s, and the anti-choice movement that was also revving up at the same time (in the wake of Roe v. Wade and Dr. Henry Morgentaler), we have lost that beneficial tendency toward breadth and openness, and a lot of the mental-health ground that went with it. The Religious Reich has fought back with a vengeance, and we’re seeing the result of their anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, anti-sex pushback everywhere. We are now regressing toward the fascistic ideas and ideals of the 1850s-1950s, and so it’s little wonder that incels are a perfect storm of Nazism, as well as narcissism.
What’s truly tragic, as well as comical, is how much these fools talk about “science”, and what a piss-poor understanding they have of it. Because actual science has refuted them for decades at every turn. And the leftward political shifts since World War II’s end have actually been the forerunners of what science has since borne out: that human sexuality isn’t one-size-fits all, that racism and sexism are fallacies, that there aren’t just two genders, that neuroplasticity and sexual and/or gender variance go hand in hand, and that there is no single optimal body type, much less an exaggerated sexual dimorphism. It’s complex and fascinating — too much so for their all-or-nothing minds to bear. Little wonder that they’re retreating into fantasy and discredited stereotypes, and they’re deaf to anyone who tries to tell them that the world doesn’t actually work that way. It’s easier, I suppose, to nail oneself to a tiny procrustean bed of nonsense than it is to face the horrifying fact that the world is much bigger and wobblier than they’ve made it out to be.
OK, there’s the official confirmation I asked for. Pedantry satisfied.
@Naglfar: A relationship with another person (particularly a femoid) is the last thing they’re looking for — women are 100% sex objects to them. And most women, most of the time, aren’t looking to be objectified.
The incels throw their obnoxious pity parties because its easier to blame the supposed shallowness of women than their own toxic shallowness.
The question I have is: do they actually fear relationships with women, and is that the reason for their misogyny? Just like a lot of hatred of people of color is stoked by fear and ignorance.
@GOSJM
I think they fear women who aren’t submissive to them. They fear any situation where white men aren’t 100% in charge.
It’s shocking to me that OP’s literally repeating good points that get made and pisses on them with the crappest one-line philosophy of “big dicks only because caveman”. I kept wondering if it was satire or what; unfortunately the spelling seems too sincerely bad.
Seriously, if this was (proofread to all hell and) published by the Onion, I’d think it’s a hilarious and bang-on lampoon. I never got Poe’s Law’d so hard.
@Naglfar
I’ve observed many times that one of the key aspects of authoritarian thought is that everything one is either completely dominant, or one is being dominated.
You see this with the people who treat having to be acknowledge that different people exist as Terrible Oppression.
And in the “Great Dealmaker’s” conviction that every deal is one person ripping the other off, meaning that if the other side appears satisfied with the deal they MUST somehow be ripping him off, so he scuttles it.
@Allandrel
They view all interaction as a zero sum game, and can’t possibly understand any outcome where multiple people are satisfied.
But, but, but…. I AM a magical complex sexual being who prefers an intuitive sensual romantic partner!
I have enjoyed sexyfuntimes with feminine men (and women) and manly men (and women), men who had little dicks, men who had big dicks…. One of the best was a man who could not get it hard enough for penetrative sex; but ohboy, he knew what it was all about.
And I agree with Buttercup, Greek Symmetrics undercounted the erogenous spots.
Fun Fact: Viking men had far more feminine features than their descendants today. So much that archaeologists feel unable to judge the remains’ gender based on facial bone structure. They need DNA evidence or clothes or other ritualistic give aways buried with the people.
There goes a fine theory….