By David Futrelle
Some dueling headlines from the Braincels subreddit today.
First, we have a heartfelt plea for love and compassion from the outside world:
Oh but wait, because there’s also this:
And this:
And here’s a post expressing nostalgia for the good old days a century ago when women couldn’t vote and men could get away with beating their wives:
FWIW, the 19th Amendment was ratified in August of 1920, so women in fact could vote in the 1920s.
Also, if dudes in the 1920s could have bought women’s soiled undies online, they totally would have because, you know, dudes.
But the broader point is that if you don’t show love and compassion to anyone except fellow members in your online misogyny club, you probably shouldn’t demand it from others?
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@Ash
I know it’s hard to admit that you may have made mistakes, but the fact that you can admit that and show that you’ve changed is good. You are stronger than most if you are able to realize that what you once believed was hateful, then move on and leave the hate behind. It’s also a sign of strength that you are able to help counter hate. Thank you.
If you don’t mind me asking more, what was it exactly that made you change your mind?
@Crip Dyke
I am not going to delve into the economics of the practice but I imagine those are the top end of the market but there are always people out for a cheap deal.
I once saw a documentary that included someone who was selling so many through eBay that it wasn’t practical to even farm it out and was sitting in their kitchen with a stack of cheap underpants – they rubbed their finger in an open tin of tuna, applied it on the crotch of the knickers and then put them in a ziplock bag read for mailing. All very depressing for a number of reasons.
In Japan there is a thriving trade in used “schoolgirl” underwear, including vending machines. I had long assumed it was an urban myth but apparently not, although it is now illegal for the previous owner to be underage:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-love-machine/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burusera
https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-machines-fact-fiction
That last one includes this towards the end: “Warning! Skip the following sentence if you want to keep that last smidgen of your faith in humanity.”
Too late.
@Moggie
There was a photo of Alexander de Pfeffel with Justin Trudeau a while back where I swear it looked like his face was melting from his skull. Either he’s a lizard person and not very good at keeping his costume on, or the job’s tougher than he expected.
@Moggie
Marina Hyde’s current piece describes Johnson as “What if you shaved the Honey Monster and put him in a suit for a court appearance?”
As always, incels get everything wrong:
Wikipedia, “Domestic Violence in the United States”
And might I add, You go, Massachussetts!
@Kat
I live in Massachusetts. It’s one of the more progressive states, but very cold and with too much snow in the winter.
The strange thing about progressiveness in Massachusetts is that it’s over all blue, but there are a lot of anti choice Catholics here as well, so whenever I go past the local Planned Parenthood there are almost always protestors and all the churches have anti abortion signs out front.
Although we did ban violence against wives, I regret to note that like all 49 other states, it is still legal to beat children in Massachusetts. Hopefully one day that will change.
@ naglfar
You may find this interesting (or maybe not; I offer no warranties!). It’s about how the authorities have used a new procedure here to stop protests like that.
We’re following this closely because we anticipate being hit by such an order for something planned for October.
https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2019/08/30/the-line-between-legitimate-protest-and-anti-social-behaviour/
@Alan Robertshaw
In America, there is a federal law that prohibits blocking the doors of the Planned Parenthood directly, so the protestors gather around in front to the sides of the door or on the other side of the street.
I can’t stand anti abortion protestors. I was once talking to a conservative and he mentioned that he was ok with abortion in the case of rape and incest. I asked if he was ok with it in cases where women couldn’t support the baby, and he replied “no, because she shouldn’t have been having sex then”. It was that line which made it abundantly clear that the only purpose of his stance was to shame female sexuality and had nothing to do with his beliefs on life. I imagine most conservatives are the same in this regard.
@ naglfar
Yeah; the appellants’ argument here was that they weren’t physically stopping anyone; but the court held the distress caused was the mischief the Act was introduced to prevent. So it was lawful to limit the protests to a zone where they couldn’t be seen or heard by people attending the clinic.
Any yup; don’t think there’s anything controversial about what you say about motives. No doubt there are a few Jainists and similar who come from an ethical stance; but the political stuff is purely about control.
Why does one of theses guys even mention the used underwear industry?
I can only infer that it’s meant to be an indicator that many men are feeling sexually deprived (due to women’s selfish and probably unhealthy dating choices), assuming this particular thing is a popular method for coping with loneliness (rather than a very specific fetish for very specific people).
Or perhaps not “popular” as such but rather “extreme”, implying that some men are feeling highly desperate in their loneliness. Though in that case, even if true, it wouldn’t say much about the broader male population. In any case, the disapproving tone of the writer fails to offer much sympathy for what he apparently considers an unhealthy coping method of disenfranchised (other) people.
@Onager: How does one view the “techinasia” link without letting them run JS on one’s machine? I’ve tried every trick in the book to read the article while denying them, and nothing seems to work: disabling CSS, google cache, even view source. The latter doesn’t show anything that looks like the article content anywhere, nor any URL that can be constructed to go there (just advertising tracking beacons and similar garbage).
On Twitter, I would generally advise against arguing with TERFs and other assorted regressives, unless you’re enjoying yourself. Interacting with them is only going to get their odious views exposed to more eyeballs (those of your followers and also that of the algorithm).
Arguing with them isn’t going to change their views, so unless you think you can sway their followers, arguing with them until you’re exhausted isn’t likely to accomplish very much.
Another option would be to just keep posting trans-positive things on your account. And blocking any comments on it that are attempting to pick a fight. It will piss off the TERFs without you or your followers needing to deal with their bullshit over and over again.
@Naglfar
Regarding Massachusetts in the 17th century, it’s odd how people can be simultaneously good on some issues and monstrous on others. Massachusetts was banning domestic violence during the same period that they were hanging Quakers.
Your experience talking with a “pro-lifer” is far from unique. I have found that if I engage with any “pro-lifer” long enough, they will admit that they think pregnancy is a punishment for having sex, and that women seeking abortions are trying to “get out of” the consequences of their bad behavior.
@Rabid Rabbit’s comment,
Hey, just delurking to remind folks that the “lizard people” jokes are based on antisemitic conspiracy theories (Yeah, literally all of them. Sorry, Pellucidar fans) and serve the specific purpose of driving people towards white supremacy.
Maybe don’t spread them around, you know?
@Allandrel
Don’t forget the Salem Witch Trials a few years later, either. It is certainly possible for states to have made some progressive moves early but also done some very problematic things.
Every anti choicer that I’ve spoken to has either cracked like you said and admitted that, or has started screaming at me about how I murder babies and am practically Hitler in their eyes. The key when arguing with these people is to stay completely calm and they’ll realize they’re not getting anywhere. Pretty much all their arguments come down to appeals to emotion with no scientific backing. If you don’t show emotion, they aren’t getting what they want.
In general, it’s a waste of time to argue with these people, though. Much like the aforementioned TERFs, there’s just too many of them and they are so deeply emotionally invested that they are unlikely to even hear any argument you make.
I’ve had one dude take dirty underwear from the campus laundry room. Is he just an even more desperate looking person in incels eyes?
Put down the rabbit, Lenny.
They want to love, but only know how to hurt.
More seriously, it’s not really “love” that they want; their words and actions make it clear that what they really want is somebody to dominate and abuse. They have no respect for women, and love can’t be born from that. I’d bet that many of these incels have been abusive in past relationships – and if they hadn’t previously, they surely would now. They’re mean, rabid dogs.
@Jackson Ayres
Like this guy.
In general, if I knew someone who wanted to dominate others, I would recommend that they get involved with BDSM, but the problem is that incels will never respect boundaries and respecting your sub’s boundaries is essential for safe BDSM. An incel would be a very dangerous dom, and it would no longer be BDSM but abuse. In fact, I would hope that if any incels tried to enter a BDSM group that they would quickly be turned away for the safety of everyone else in the group.
with respect to ‘how’s Boris looking these days’…
Another blog I follow had a post called Today’s Brexit Infographic: Boris Johnson’s majority as measured by his face with an animated image of Johnson’s face looking like somebody dropped a pudding onto the floor.
(The person who writes that blog is basically an ex-pat Brit living in Australia, from what I recall.)
My apologies for the derail, but this seems like the most appropriate thread still active to ask for an OT request for domestic violence/abuse resources.
Sooooo…the granddaughter of one of my coworkers is having trouble with an abusive ex boyfriend. I don’t know anywhere near everything that’s going on there, beyond the fact that the girl is 17, and that things have gotten to the point that a restraining order is needed, and will be sought out tomorrow morning when the courts open again.
The grandmother has taken some steps to keep her granddaughter safe from this guy, but I suspect that they’ll need some better resources/advice to continue doing so. Already they know that the girl will have to change her cellphone number; the guy had a friend call her and ask some very nasty questions (I gather most of these were pornographic in nature).
So does anyone have any good links about what to do in this kind of situation? I told the coworker that I’d look up some resources for her, but I know very little about these kinds of situations, beyond what I’ve read here and in other feminist-leaning blogs. I figure the links in the sidebar here would be a start, but those seem more focused on cyberstalking than meatspace problems. We live in rural Indiana, and I don’t know what-all’s available for help and advice here, outside of the local womens’ shelter.
My thanks in advance for any help anyone here chooses to give.
@RedsilkPhoenix:
I don’t want to compromise anonymity more than absolutely necessary, but to give good resources that are relevant, we need to know
1) Country of residence
2) Metropolitan area (or at least Canton/Department/Province/State),
and
3) is the daughter queer or trans?
Thanks in advance. If I can help, I will.
@Crip Dyke,
1. USA.
2. Rural/smalltown Indiana.
3. To the best of my knowledge, no on both.
@Redsilkphoenix:
For the internet/online piece of the puzzle:
http://www.crashoverridenetwork.com/resources.html
From the inimitable Captain Awkward:
https://captainawkward.com/2018/09/06/1143-talking-about-emotional-abuse-and-leaving-my-marriage-with-my-potential-support-network/
https://captainawkward.com/2017/05/09/959-how-much-fighting-in-a-new-relationship-is-too-much-spoiler-this-is-way-too-muchoh-god-break-up-now/
https://captainawkward.com/2013/12/15/529-unfun-with-tenses-you-had-an-abuser-you-have-a-stalker/
https://captainawkward.com/2013/05/21/480-post-breakup-friend-custody-with-a-gross-congealed-moldy-side-of-stalking/
Those posts contain links to resources such as domestic violence hotlines and recommended reading such as Why Does He Do That? Hopefully at least one of them will contain advice that your coworker and their granddaughter can use.
In fact, if you do a search of “stalk” on Captain Awkward’s site, you will see how many questions she’s answered that involve stalking behavior. It is far more common than most of us realize, it is the outside-world aspect of domestic violence, and it is not your coworker’s granddaughter’s fault. She doesn’t deserve this, she didn’t cause it, and the only person responsible for it is her abusive ex.
@redsilkphoenix – a friend passed this link along
https://www.thehotline.org/
They say that one of the purposes of this org is to create a list of local and relevant resources in the US.
Good luck, this is a shitty situation to deal with. :/
@Rhuu: That’s a good one for folks in the USA. I used to know some of the people who ran it, and they were great people back then. They did a lot of work to try to institutionalize good, survivor-centered practices, so I’m willing to bet it’s still staffed by folks just as good.