By David Futrelle
Some dueling headlines from the Braincels subreddit today.
First, we have a heartfelt plea for love and compassion from the outside world:
Oh but wait, because there’s also this:
And this:
And here’s a post expressing nostalgia for the good old days a century ago when women couldn’t vote and men could get away with beating their wives:
FWIW, the 19th Amendment was ratified in August of 1920, so women in fact could vote in the 1920s.
Also, if dudes in the 1920s could have bought women’s soiled undies online, they totally would have because, you know, dudes.
But the broader point is that if you don’t show love and compassion to anyone except fellow members in your online misogyny club, you probably shouldn’t demand it from others?
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I’ve heard urban legends about it, but is there actually a market for used underwear? It seems like a rather niche product.
Okay, this is off-topic, but I am getting extremely distracted by David’s current Twitter feed. There is a tired, and possibly drunk, cat, plus Jean-Luc Picard and the Borg!
@Lakitha
You’re not the only one getting distracted. My favorite recent tweet, though, was a video of an elderly white man with a passing resemblance to Paul Elam lip syncing to Lizzo.
@Naglfar:
Seems there is, yes. I’ve also read about people mixing water and flour together, then applying it to the crotches of clean underwear. After it dries, it’s supposed to mimic… you know… normal vaginal discharge. I tend to believe this is factual, as bizarre as it sounds.
I was hate-reading the Return of Kings comments section awhile ago, before they went belly-up, and.one commenter admitted it wasn’t about sex for him, but about human connection. As in David’s last paragraph above, that’s a two-way street. You have to show it to others, in order to get it in return, and you’re unlikely to come across it in your local meat market.
@Naglfar:
yep. Actually a market.
Movie/video chat performers that work out of their homes or otherwise don’t do porn/sex work that pays enough on its own will offer to sell their worn underwear to their fans.
I don’t know if anyone sells underwear who doesn’t do home movies/video chats, but I suppose that’s possible.
Not only that, but men were clutching their pearls over the horrible debauchery of flapper women in the 20’s. So there’s that.
In fact, every generation sees men and lots of women with a load of internalized misogyny complaining about how slutty and unfeminine women are these days, unlike the good old days.
It’s almost like the problem isn’t women, but misogyny.
@Crip Dyke
Ah, so there is a market. I shouldn’t be surprised, as it’s just another proof of the rule of American consumerism: if you can package it, someone will buy it.
I’ve read that Dita Von Teese, the performance artist and stripper, sells her used stockings to fans. These aren’t pantyhose, they’re old-school stockings held up with a garter belt.
Easy money, I guess.
I’ve been posting quite a bit recently, because my modem died early in the week. The thing was less than 3 months old. Without internet connectivity, I don’t have a home phone, nor can I do any work from home. That’s life in the sticks.
“If they’ll buy poison, they’ll buy anything!” — Quark, insightful as always, after encountering 20th-century Americans smoking cigarettes.
@Dormousing_it
Sorry about your modem. If you don’t mind me wondering, though, how are you able to post without internet?
@Dormousing_it: This was an actual plot point in a season of Orange Is The New Black where the main character is smuggling used underwear out of the prison for her brother to sell to fetishists online… and the brother and his wife using various mixtures to simulate the discharge when demand started to exceed supply…
Shorter incels: please don’t hate us because we’re
beautifulhateful! ?@wwth:
‘Twas ever thus.
— Adam, 4004BC
Jane, you ignorant slut!
(Ref. the classic Point, Counter-Point routine on SNL)
@Naglfar:
I ordered an inexpensive modem, as soon as I discovered my modem had died. That was Monday. It was delivered Friday.
This is getting ridiculous. These days, internet connectivity has become a neccessity.
If I don’t have it, I drive the 1 hour and 15 minutes in to work every day.
There are times when I wish I’d never heard of the internet.
So, OT, I’ve spent three days arguing with TERFs on Twitter and I’m emotionally exhausted. Does anyone have some good resources I can dump on them if I end up in this situation again? It’s like dealing with a hydra. Every time one of them finally leaves me alone, three more pop up to continue arguing.
Speaking of David’s twitter feed, compare the photo of Boris Johnson there (in amiable buffoon mode) with the one at the top of this Guardian article. Not looking so good now, is he? Let’s hope things get even worse for him.
@Talonknife:
Depends on the exact topic. I have a bunch of things on my blog that might be useful to link, as do a couple other people on FtB. There are lots of other resources as well, but no one writes about **everything**, so if you want folks to give you recommendations for links (to articles here or elsewhere), we can help you best knowing a bit more.
Of course, sounds like you mean for next time, not now (I hope? You’re done, right? You’re taking care of yourself?) so you don’t have to say anything today, but just keep it in mind and ask next time it would be useful.
@Talonknife
It’ll be an uphill battle. Try pointing at some of their hypocrisy. It’s not hard to find. Like the fact that in England (and probably elsewhere) they have teamed up with far right antifeminist conservatives because to them it’s more important to hurt trans folks than it is to advance rights for women.
Remember not to actually say the word TERF, because Twitter considers it a slur. It sucks, but they make the rules and it isn’t worth a Twitter ban.
ContraPoints has a video about TERFs, but it may not be as effective as a persuasion tool, as they’re unlikely to listen to a trans woman.
I’m wondering if soon TERFs will fully abandon any pretense of feminism and join the alt right Nazis over a shared hatred of trans people. They already sound a bit like white supremacists, and I’d guess they’re almost all white.
I also know that they are actively withdrawing from actual feminist groups. I was hate reading r/GenderCritical and before I was overcome with rage, I noticed a post where someone mentioned that they were leaving any feminist group that was trans inclusive. I would link, but I’m not going back there for a while. At any rate, I doubt that any real feminists miss them.
@Cat Mara:
More than 10 years ago, I knew someone who sold their used underwear to someone in Germany. I don’t know who I should feel sorry for, if anyone at all.
Heh… I’m a bit intoxicated. I never had hard cider before tonight. I purchased a 4- pack of the stuff yesterday. I’m Murican; hard cider isn’t all that popular here. It’s 7 percent alcohol, according to the label. I’ve had 3 12 ounce cans so far. I should probably quit while I’m ahead. It’s very tasty, tho.
I was under the impression hard cider was catching on in the US because of those who didn’t want gluten. No? (I like its taste better than beer, frankly, though I’m not much of a drinker to begin with.)
@talonknife
This is extremely embarrassing to say and not something I like to readily admit, but….I used to be pretty fucking TERFy.
Or perhaps more peripherally TERF adjacent. My issue was that I had a lot of well meaning opinions that were not entirely fleshed out and formed based on bullshit socio-cultural anxieties. I’m not happy to say I am “passed that” these days, because it means admitting I had a fucked up POV for a really long time… But it is what it is.
The point where this became a superpower was when I was able to understand TERF logic in a way that a lot of people can’t (and shouldn’t.)
But basically, if you came across any specific TERF BS you can’t quite parse to argue with, I’d love to try to help you have a reply in your back pocket for next time ^-^
So it’s…
Incels: We want love and compassion!
Also incels: Jane, you ignorant slut…
Count me with those who prefer cider to beer.
In fact, I loathe beer, as a general rule, and never drink it.
Of course, It’s been four or six months since I’ve had any alcohol at all, so it’s not like I’m in love with cider either, even if I have had a few good tasting ones. .
@Talonknife:
Ask the TERFs why, if they think it’s “denying biology” to, say, call a transgender woman a woman, they don’t claim it’s “denying biology” to, say, call an adoptive mother a mother.
I mean, this sh*t about insisting that a word like “woman” has a specific biological meaning and cannot be used except in conformity with that meaning is just so illogical. We do this kind of category broadening in language ALL THE TIME on words that were originally restricted to a specific technical meaning, and now have a primary definition that’s more general or abstract.