By David Futrelle
What’s the point of life? More specifically, what’s the point of living if you’re some old lady random dudes on the internet don’t want to bone?
That was more or less the question that one intrepid Man Going His Own Way put to his colleagues in the MGTOW subreddit not long ago. “I’m genuinely interested in what the purpose of old woman is,” wrote Governator.
Let’s assume that the granny in question is way past any thoughts of sex. She has some kids, some grandchildren, no husband or a husband who can’t get his willy up, some property, a proper job.
What’s her MO? Let’s assume that she is unhappy and bitter – what could be the reasons?
I don’t know, maybe she’s bitter she ended up with a grandson like you?
Any way to point her to a proper purpose in life?
Reason: a relative of mine.
As you might imagine, Governator’s pals had some thoughts on the matter.
“Baking cookies for the grandchildren,” wrote one. Teaching grandchildren skills they don’t need “like sucking eggs or darning socks,” wrote another, and serving as “a cheap babysitter.”
“They help and guide others with their decades of experience and wisdom. Sometimes.” wrote another MGTOW Redditor a bit more generous in his appreciation of old women than his MGTOW buddies.
Others weren’t sure the old gals had any reason to exist. “There isn’t a purpose,” wrote yooshio.
Old women aren’t women…they are simply old little girls.
They waste the resources they’ve accumulated throughout a lifetime…most likely procured from a man they’ve manipulated and nagged.
There is an overriding behavior I’ve noticed and that’s: manipulation.
It never stops.
My thesis is that character trait truly is genetic.
Another commenter seemed a little bit like he was working out some issues he has with his own female relatives.
Their life purpose is the same as ours: control. Men seek control and power through overt physical means with the world around them. Women seek it through covert means with the people around them. She will demand all her children and grandchildren communicate with her constantly so she can use guilt and withholding approval to control what they do, say, think, etc. Anyone who dares to withhold information or defy her will immediately become the black sheep of the family and have their social safety net torn away until they get back on granny’s plantation.
Hmm. Dr. Lechter, do you have any questions?
A commenter called user_miki couldn’t seem to get past the fact that some older ladies are out there having sex.
Before the madness an old lady had a vital social purpose.They advised young girls how to become women and what marriage is like and what men to seek for marriage.Don’t whore around, wait until marry to open up your legs,how to cook and be a good wife, aso. Now the old grannies are the first sluts after the sexual revolution.
Dude, if you’re interested, there are porn sites for that.
All of this raises a question: what is the point of MGTOWs?
I mean, even the most generous of MGTOWs seem to think that the value of old women stems entirely from what they do for others — whether baking cookies or dispensing wisdom. MGTOWs, meanwhile, are all about not doing things for others, about living their lives with as little responsibility towards anyone else as possible. They don’t simply advocate avoiding women. Some talk about dropping out of society altogether.
Basically, the only way they “give back” to society, in their own perverse way, is by urging other men to become MGTOWs like them.
So if MGTOWs do nothing for the world except make other MGTOWs who will also do nothing for the world, doesn’t that make them — by their own logic — worthless?
Just a thought.
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@Jesalin
30 seconds with wikipedia:
Another 30 seconds shows that Mr. White has been married 3 times, divorced twice and is separate from his most recent partner. When he says “can’t handle the heat”, what he means is “won’t tolerate abusive bullshit from chronic assholes like White”.
I recall hearing a female chef say something about how women often don’t stay chefs long, because they do things like getting married, or having children, and are far more likely to sacrifice their careers to facilitate their husband’s (alternatives weren’t mentioned), or to look after their children.
My maternal grandfather would have starved in a fully stocked pantry on his own.
My paternal grandmother was a manipulative emotional vampire and had her husband well trained to take care of her.
And yes, she did rot when he died.
Did I mention that my parents considered the mountain range between us and all their parents a feature and not a bug?
Clare Smyth, the woman named best female chef in the world last year, got her big break working under Gordon Ramsay. Read the linked article. Which of the two do you think has less emotional outbursts in the kitchen: her, or Gordon “not known for his calm demeanour” Ramsay?
Older women (and older men) do a lot of unpaid community labour. Some of it may not be particularly valued by your average MGTOW – some of it isn’t even particularly valued by me – but a lot this kind of coordinating voluntary work is what makes communities nice places to live and can provide essential services for some individuals or groups.
As to chefs – if a woman wants to be a chef and have children, she has to have a partner who really is willing to do more than his/her share of the childcare. Chefs tend to work hours when kids are at home, when paid childcare is less available and times when kids need a lot of hands on care – even at older ages. Male chefs with children are more likely to have a partner who will do that.
Plus if food is your passion, you don’t have to work in the food service industry to express that passion.
Personally, I could never have pursued that career because restaurant kitchens tend to be windowless and I don’t do windowless.
What the effin’ eff. Do MGTOW believe that it’s okay for a woman to choose whom to marry?
Hell must be freezing over.
Or else it’s just another fascist who’s lost the thread of his arguments.
@Dalillama
That’s what I thought, from watching cooking shows where the male chefs were always flipping out (often in very sexist/entitled ways). My guess would be that Mr. White is the same way, from the way he talks.
@Pie
I was unaware of that. How does that work? Small children are not good conversationalists, so I didn’t think it would be a particularly intellectual task. At least, the times I babysat when growing up never seemed overly enriching.
@Kat
I read that quote as suggesting that grandmothers would set up arranged marriages. That seems more in line with what MGTOWs want.
There are five known mammals that go through menopause: humans, orcas, short-finned pilot whales, belugas, and narwhals. The most agreed-upon hypothesis is the “grandmother theory”- these animals are able to assist their daughters in raising offspring; having a grandmother around helps in the survival of the young (note: does not apply to grandfathers, who do not provide assistance and as far as Ma Nature is concerned can just screw off and die).
@Naglfar
I don’t think so: “They advised young girls . . . what men to seek for marriage.”
But for the sake of argument, let’s say I’m wrong. It would still be true that this MGTOW has forgotten what he believes: Women, young or old, should have no rights.
@Naglfar
There are probably a bunch of caveats, not least of which the benefit is probably mostly felt by older people spending time with tiny people… adolescent and younger adult babysitters probably don’t get nearly as much benefit, if any. Bear in mind though that “stimulating” isn’t necessarily the same as “intellectual”. Small people are somewhat mercurial and generally have limited attention spans and dealing with that unpredictability is probably good for you.
That said, don’t take my word for it, or pay too much attention to my uninformed guesses as to why it might work.
Interactive programs with preschool children bring smiles and conversation to older adults: time-sampling study
An evaluative study of the benefits of participating in intergenerational playgroups in aged care for older people.
Intergenerational Programs to Promote Active Aging: The Experiences and Perspectives of Older Adults
I like the idea of granny narwhals. Would there be knitting?
@Pie:
My experience as an uncle is that it was a lot of fun to spend time with my nieces when they were kids. Also exhausting. But, in my case, I think this would only remain true in small doses. If I had to deal with kids every day, my patience would be quickly exhausted. I would make a bad parent and a worse teacher.
@Moggie
It’s too bad that only the males typically have tusks. Otherwise the grannies could pair up and use their tusks as knitting needles.
I’m not sure there’d be time, given that they’re the jedi of the sea.
Stopping Cthulhu eatin’ ye is a full time job, don’cha know….
Oh Gaebolga no! Not the earworm!
Don’t make me retaliate with a Cyriak video!
I want to know, how old is “way past any thoughts of sex”? Because at my advanced age, “thinking” is about all there is.
These MIGTOWs seem to have a more calcified view of society than most seniors.
wwth – The Jacob Wahl thing is making me wish I hadn’t already done my jury duty service last January (I’m now exempt for three years, having served on a jury and not just shown up for the day and not gotten on a panel, which exempts you for a year.) Unless they drag this thing out for another three years, I have no shot. Of course, it’s more likely it’ll be settled out of court, but still, a useless old lady can dream…
Pie said
My dad was one of those rare old men; he had some chops in the kitchen, but had to expand his repertoire beyond goulash, waffles, and cinnamon toast made in the oven. By the time I got out of the service, his enchilada casserole was to die for! Plus, he already knew how to darn socks using a light bulb as a darning egg. He also unstintingly gave me a lot of support when I went back to school; he did most of the cooking and laundry and I mainly did the shopping. A rare old man indeed, and I miss him every day.
@Moggie
Wow, that escalated quickly!
I yield…
lol
I must ask why people must have points at all. I should think people are ends in themselves. This is a fascist, misanthropic view they have, that a person is only worthwhile if they are useful for some higher purpose, whether to be burnt as fuel for the capitalist war machine or to stroke endlessly the ego of an imaginary celestial despot.
I can only think of a quotation from one of Ayn Rand’s books: the hero, Kira, says, “What are your masses [of humanity] but mud to be ground underfoot, fuel to be burned for those who deserve it?”
Mabret – I was trying to think of a way of saying what you said. Thank you for succeeding where I failed.
Did everybody get a chance to laugh at Kevin Sorbo’s latest, yet? 😀
Marco Pierre White was the enfant terrible of the British restaurant scene in the 80s, famous for tantrums of such volcanic intensity that even Gordon Ramsay would be like, “steady on, old chap, don’t you think you’re overreacting just a bit?” In the 80s. Now, he’s a tedious old has-been who shills stock cubes for Knorr but still feels the need to run his mouth in public every once in a while.
The late Anthony Bourdain, no stranger to tantrums and generally shitty behaviour himself, maintained that the women in his kitchens were tougher than the men, precisely because of the drama and bullying that went on in them. And he did later apologise for the toxic environment he encouraged in his efforts to be the edgy, badass, asshole-genius chef he thought he had to be. Then he took his own life and we’re left with Marco Bloody Pierre White because this is the worst timeline, as we all know ☹️
Katamount,
Wow.
Part of me was giggling at that mess.
Part me of me was a little concerned as the US right is currently threatening violence if AR-15s are banned and this could just whip them into more of a frenzy.
Sigh
@Katamount
Shouldn’t that movie be titled Kevin Sorbo’s Not Dead 3?
@WWTH
I’m a bit worried about this too. I find it rather ridiculous that conservatives seem to think that threatening violence is a good argument in favor of gun ownership. The only impression I get from this is that those people should never have been trusted with guns in the first place.
I also find it ridiculous when conservatives seem to think that their guns are somehow enough to create a revolution, as the libertarians always say. Conservatives have too many guns, but if there were an armed uprising, their beloved military would be able to quash it and still make it to lunch. AR15s are useless when your opponent has M3s and B-52s.
For MGTOWs, the point of anything is its benefit or potential benefit to the MGTOW personally (or at least to men exactly like himself). “What is the point if old women?” to an MGTOW means “How can old women have any benefit to me?” and to ask “What is the purpose of MGTOWs?” is to an MGTOW a nonsense question, being interpreted as: “How does an MGTOW’s existence serve his self-interest?” The mistake is in thinking there is some other purpose or good to anything.